WWE TV 01/27 - 02/02 R.I.P. Kobe

[KawadaSmile]

Good on Mauro for leaving Twitter and social media in general but can he please stop yelling

It's an anti-draw

[Coffey]

14 hours ago, FMKK said:

The guy has been boring for 75% of his career. Let's not get carried away on the strength of a good angle.

My entire argument the entire time, even when discussing Orton in the AEW section, is that you either have charisma or you don't. It's not something you can turn on & off. It has very little to do with wrestling angles. 

Randy Orton has charisma. The fact he can make people react the way that he does shows that. It's not really a debate or an opinion.

There's a lot of wrestling fans that don't even know what the fuck charisma means. "Oh, he stinks at promos, he has no charisma." It just makes them look stupid.

[gordi]

After reading about this week's shows, I think that Randy Orton is a really good choice for Edge's first feud (assuming that they are going to feud now and that Edge is coming back).

They've got a lot of experience working together, and you'd have to assume that Orton would know how to protect Edge from injury and work a relatively safe style with him.

I often pop over here to complain or harp on something that bothers me. Figured I might as well post a positive thought about WWE, for a change. 

[SirEdger]

Edge signed a 3-year deal. He's committed to 5 matches a year with roughly 25 appearances. I also think that there's a clause in his contract saying he's gonna get his full pay if he wrestles 3 matches a year.

[MoS]

I don't know if there is any credence to these whispers but 

If at all true, it would mean Vince put NXT on USA just to hurt AEW. Which, I mean I know it's Vince and that's just who he has been most of his life, but WWE is basically top 1-10 on its own right now. He will certainly die as the owner of the biggest, most profitable wrestling promotion ever. It just seems so unnecessary. 

[SirEdger]

Vince likely put NXT to make sure AEW didn't get off the ground and nip the bud right away. However, it has tremendously backfired; not only they're beating them in the ratings but AEW has been renewed until 2023. So, firing George Barrios & Michelle Wilson look a lot to me like a saving face move on Vince's part. Who knows if Barrios & Wilson didn't question Vince as to if it was the right move to do to put NXT head-to-head with AEW.

[MoS]

4 hours ago, Coffey said:

My entire argument the entire time, even when discussing Orton in the AEW section, is that you either have charisma or you don't. It's not something you can turn on & off. It has very little to do with wrestling angles. 

Randy Orton has charisma. The fact he can make people react the way that he does shows that. It's not really a debate or an opinion.

There's a lot of wrestling fans that don't even know what the fuck charisma means. "Oh, he stinks at promos, he has no charisma." It just makes them look stupid.

Would you say it is fair to state that while Orton has charisma and personality and, on occasions when he shows both, he is exciting to watch, more often than not, he does not display any - maybe cuz he does not give a shit - he is not just boring to watch, but often drags down his peers and the angles he is involved in?

I mean, I certainly agree that one does not need to be great on the mic to show charisma. Jeff Hardy was terrible on the mic and yet he had tremendous charisma. Brock in his first run cut bad promos but had undeniable charisma. But I don't think calling Randy Orton Blandy Orton for most stretches of his career is unjustified. 

[DMJ]

Is there an Orton thread in The Microscope? I'd love to add my paragraphs and paragraphs of Orton thoughts, but I'm hesistant to do it here...

Quick question for debate: Does Brock Lesnar need to win at WrestleMania?

I pose the question because I'm kind of split on Drew McIntyre getting the Rumble win and the shot at Lesnar and potential show-ending match. 

On one hand, I like that we have someone fresh in the main event. I'm a bigger Roman fan, but I didn't want to see Reigns/Lesnar again. I'm not a boxing or MMA guy so Tito Ortiz or the big boxer guy eliminating Lesnar and then challenging him at Mania was not appealing to me. I don't want to see Edge permanently paralyzed and I wasn't counting on The Rock or Cena or CM Punk or Batista to magically appear and challenge Lesnar either. 

But...I'm not invested in Drew McIntyre at all and I don't think I'm going to be in 10 weeks. On RAW, the crowd chanted "You Deserve It" but does he? I feel like its a Pavlovian response to anyone new getting put into that position. The same chant would've happened had it been Sheamus or Cesaro or even Keith Lee, who most fans didn't know existed 3 months ago. And you can point to this great match and that great match in McIntyre's past, but its a matter of "What have you done for me lately?" with him too. What has he done lately that's been good? Has there been a groundswell of support for him that I've missed? Was he getting big babyface reactions at live shows and TV? I don't watch the weekly TV often, but I watch the PPVs and I didn't see him breaking out. I mean, before eliminating Lesnar and the Rumble win, we were all in agreement that McIntyre was dead in the water, right? That teaming with Ziggler and Shane had not been good? You look back at Ryback at his peak and I see a guy who was at least 10 degrees hotter than McIntyre has ever been. 

Could Drew McIntyre have been "the guy"? Sure. But you needed to plant the seeds way, way earlier for me. I should've known that this guy was a big player months ago. To me, he was RAW's version of Baron Corbin in many ways. Yes, he's a better in-ring performer with a better look, but were his reactions bigger? Plus, you could argue that the same would be true of anyone. What if they had run videos hyping Sheamus' return for the past 2-3 months? He could've re-debuted at the Rumble and Brogue Kicked Lesnar out and it woud've been an identical reaction if not bigger! Or what if they had actually had Kofi focused on getting a rematch and revenge since October instead of just going right back to New Day hijinks? 

To me, McIntyre winning is fine, but its not good writing. I didn't see the momentum going into the show that the Rumble winner should have. 

Which is why I kinda think Lesnar needs to win at WrestleMania. The Beast remains more credible, more entertaining, and a bigger star than anyone else on the roster and Drew McIntyre really isn't even in the conversation unless you're talking to pure fantasy booking, in which case his name could just as easily be replaced by Keith Lee or any other personal favorite. 

[Log]

5 hours ago, MoS said:

Would you say it is fair to state that while Orton has charisma and personality and, on occasions when he shows both, he is exciting to watch, more often than not, he does not display any - maybe cuz he does not give a shit - he is not just boring to watch, but often drags down his peers and the angles he is involved in?

I mean, I certainly agree that one does not need to be great on the mic to show charisma. Jeff Hardy was terrible on the mic and yet he had tremendous charisma. Brock in his first run cut bad promos but had undeniable charisma. But I don't think calling Randy Orton Blandy Orton for most stretches of his career is unjustified. 

Orton, Brock and Hardy all have a "physical" charisma (for lack of a better term).  It's a weird thing where you're entertained by the way they move, not from what they say.  I actually think one of the most physically charismatic performers I've ever seen is Asuka.  She's so good at conveying stuff through her movements, from her dance/strut she does on her way to the ring to her movements in the ring.  There might actually be a term for what I'm talking about, but I don't know it.  Hogan and Savage both had it too.  They just also happened to have the verbal charisma too.  

[Al]

I think the closest term is "presence." 

[sek69]

12 hours ago, SirEdger said:

Vince likely put NXT to make sure AEW didn't get off the ground and nip the bud right away. However, it has tremendously backfired; not only they're beating them in the ratings but AEW has been renewed until 2023. So, firing George Barrios & Michelle Wilson look a lot to me like a saving face move on Vince's part. Who knows if Barrios & Wilson didn't question Vince as to if it was the right move to do to put NXT head-to-head with AEW.

 

NXT was the biggest non-PPV draw on the network, I wouldn't be shocked if George and Michelle's difference in vision stemmed from them wondering why the platform they were championing for so long was being cannibalized in a short sighted attempt to bully a competitor. 

[Coffey]

11 hours ago, MoS said:

Would you say it is fair to state that while Orton has charisma and personality and, on occasions when he shows both, he is exciting to watch, more often than not, he does not display any - maybe cuz he does not give a shit - he is not just boring to watch, but often drags down his peers and the angles he is involved in?

I think Randy Orton's biggest issue is that he constantly seems disinterested or even downright bored. Like he's just going through the motions. I can't say he's lazy because he's still working & everything but he definitely seems like he has a lot of nights that he takes it easy. Much like how some NFL players take plays "off" when they know the ball is not going in their direction. Living a life on the road like wrestlers do would suck.

He still seems to get up when he's put in a good program or has a big match coming but there are a lot fewer of those for him nowadays. But like weekly TV isn't special anymore & I think a lot of the talent see it that way too. The way some workers used to half-ass house shows, that's how a lot of talent today seemingly treats RAW & Smackdown. 

[sek69]

You can always tell when Randy is invested in a program as opposed to when he isn't. Just like some guys have the "I'm about to do a job" boo-boo face, Randy tends to get the "I couldn't give any less of a shit about what's going on here" face. 

[PeteF3]

Dave on The Board categorically denied the $0-for-NXT story, calling it "total nonsense."

[SirEdger]

I still agree with @sek69's theory about Barrios & Wilson clashing with Vince over the move of NXT from the WWE Network to USA being a contributing factor in what happened yesterday. Always adds more fuel to the theory about Vince and yesmen.

[hammerva]

So Smackdown main event is a "loser eats dog food" match.  Seriously someone tell Bruce Pritchard that it isn't 1987.  Bad thing is that I fully expect Corbin's team to win 

Apparently the Revival have asked for their 5th release from the company.  At this rate it is reaching Dolph Ziggler level of "yeah sure" 

[KawadaSmile]

Naomi deserves the title more than anyone at this point

 

[sek69]

50 minutes ago, hammerva said:

Apparently the Revival have asked for their 5th release from the company.  At this rate it is reaching Dolph Ziggler level of "yeah sure"

Well Dolph kept re-signing when he was doing that, but as of yet the Revival haven't, so there is that difference. 

I'm thinking their logic is if they put the word out they still want to leave and WWE tries to humiliate them again it will just make the company look like petty assholes. It seems to be working, as I recall at one point Vince wanted to make them  pure comedy characters on the way out but that went away quickly (it's also equally likely someone just jingled their keys in front of him and he forgot about it). 

[SirEdger]

To me, it's inevitable that they'll leave. And if Harper eventually got his release, I'm thinking it's gonna happen for The Revival as well.

[Dav'oh]

1 hour ago, hammerva said:

So Smackdown main event is a "loser eats dog food" match

It sucked me in to watching a Usos match, so I guess it worked.

I don't know how to format spoiler alerts yet, so SPOILER ALERT:

Given no-one "ATE" dog food as such, is this another stip the E reneged on, or would that be pedantic given there was a pay-off?

[C.S.]

3 minutes ago, Dav'oh said:

It sucked me in to watching a Usos match, so I guess it worked. 

Glad I'm not the only one here who can't stand these overrated clowns.

In a few years, there will be rumors about them jumping to AEW (spoiler alert: they won't), and everyone will be beside themselves acting like The Usos would be big draws and difference makers to AEW - when the reality is, they wouldn't move the needle one centimeter or add much of anything to a tag division with younger, fresher, hipper, and more exciting acts than them. 

[hammerva]

I think the Usos are damn good in the ring but are terrible faces as they are really just jerks.  

To be fair I don't think there is a single tag team currently in the WWE that would be huge draws in AEW if they jumped.  The tag team division in AEW is really the only thing keeping their shows interesting.   Maybe the New Day because some of them could actually be singles stars but that is it.   

[CarpetCrawler]

Incredible.

[Coffey]

I loved the Samoan SWAT Team/Headshrinkers. I still do when I go back & watch their stuff as well. The Usos are probably better than them in the ring and it's not like The Headshrinkers was a great gimmick... but what The Usos don't have that the SST did is that everything that SST did looked like death. It was all believable. Like sometimes the Usos try to get too cute with their stuff, like superkicks, & it can take me out of a match.

Their promos for the most part also aren't great but I mean, if I'm continuing with the comparison to the Shrinkers, they didn't promo at all, so... 

In other news, Braun Strowman apparently won the Intercontinental title. Which, feels like a lateral move. I don't think this will help Braun & it won't help the title either but Nakamura was just treading water with it anyway, so I guess at least it's something new? That belt feels beyond dead.

[C.S.]

8 hours ago, Coffey said:

I loved the Samoan SWAT Team/Headshrinkers. I still do when I go back & watch their stuff as well. The Usos are probably better than them in the ring and it's not like The Headshrinkers was a great gimmick... but what The Usos don't have that the SST did is that everything that SST did looked like death. It was all believable. Like sometimes the Usos try to get too cute with their stuff, like superkicks, & it can take me out of a match.

Their promos for the most part also aren't great but I mean, if I'm continuing with the comparison to the Shrinkers, they didn't promo at all, so... 

Different eras and all of that, but like you said, The Shrinkers were believable. They were also intimidating and looked like they could kick ass. The Usos, on the other hand, seem like they could be swallowed up whole by a gust of wind. Sure, there's a size difference, but that isn't what I mean. I think it's more down to their demeanor. Like you said, The Usos get too cute - not only with their moves but also IMO with their promos and mannerisms. I realize forced catchphrases are an unfortunate fact of life in WWE, but The Usos are particularly bad in this area.

8 hours ago, Coffey said:

In other news, Braun Strowman apparently won the Intercontinental title. Which, feels like a lateral move. I don't think this will help Braun & it won't help the title either but Nakamura was just treading water with it anyway, so I guess at least it's something new? That belt feels beyond dead.

Having Braun win the title at WM would've at least felt slightly special, but I'm guessing the reason it happened now because Sami can't take a Saudi vacation. (Lucky him!)