Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[NintendoLogic]

Someone finds an argument more persuasive when they stand to benefit financially from it. News at 11.

[MoS]

Americans stop trying to empower us please for the love of God it's 2022 challenge. 

Do these people think that girls in Saudi Arabia are not aware that other girls in other countries  exist, with a lot more freedom than they have? Do they think Asians are just ignorant? What do they think is the problem exactly? 

[El-P]

11 minutes ago, MoS said:

Do these people think that girls in Saudi Arabia are not aware that other girls in other countries  exist, with a lot more freedom than they have? 

Yes.

There's no muslim woman in Saudi Arabia that the young girls are looking up to in term of fighting for women's rights. Which is why they cry when they see powerful and free American WWE female Superstars and chant "This is hope" in unisson. This is why Lita is going and is proud to go too... You know Stephy invented feminism in the Middle-East, right ?

[NintendoLogic]

The truth is, they're mainly trying to convince themselves rather than the rest of the world. Just about everybody has a price, but most people want their work to be somewhat aligned with their moral views or at least not in direct opposition to them. When professed principles come into conflict with financial self-interest, even the flimsiest arguments can help resolve the cognitive dissonance.

[sek69]

Lita's explanation was really awkward to the point if she would have just said "well they gave me a big fuckin' check to go so I said yes" I'd at least respect the honesty. Instead she came off sounding like someone who just underwent a cult brainwashing, which.....yeah. 

[NintendoLogic]

As you can see, WWE is a totally normal place to work and definitely not a cult. "WWE continues to influence the world! Dear Leader makes the sun rise!"

[El-P]

A total embarrassment for everyone involved. Sometime it's hard to watch *any* kind of entertainment when you realize most of these people are complete corporate braindead dumb fucks. Not to mention idiotic fans going along with it. 

Some of this thread is funny as fuck though :

 

 

[C.S.]

No Poops On The Plane: Michael Hayes Was Once Tasked To Find Out Who Pooped On Vince McMahon's Plane

https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/no-poops-plane-michael-hayes-was-once-tasked-find-out-who-pooped-vince-mcmahon-s-plane

Quote

Freddie Prinze Jr.:

“So Freebird calls me into his office, Michael Hayes, and he says, ‘Freddie, I gotta ask you a question,’ and he looks concerned. I go, ‘What's up, man?’ He goes. You didn't take a poop on Vince's plane, did you?’ I said, ‘What are you talking about?’ He says ‘there's no poops on the plane.’ I said, ‘Of course, I didn't. What are you talking about man? I didn't use the restroom’ He goes, ‘Well, someone did and I have to find out who,’ and he's not laughing when he says that. Okay, he's pissed off. Like, what kind of job assignment is that? I got to find out who took a shit on my boss's plan. Freakin’ the best agent in that company, comes up with the greatest finishes. At least when I was there, all the fans' favorite finishes were either Freebird’s or Triple H's. Usually, it was a combination of both and it wasn't anyone else's, and he's having to find out who took a poop on the plane.”

“Now I will say this. He never found out who it was. But I did. I know exactly who it was because the dude ratted himself out in my hotel room, where a group of writers were all hanging out and a couple of wrestlers. Literally, as soon as he said it, too, the other writers were in there and he jumped up and he goes, ‘If you tell anyone, anyone, I swear to God—’ and we all had a good laugh. So remember, there's no poops on the plane.”

 

[C.S.]

 

[sek69]

I love that the reaction to Rok-C being offered a WWE contract has been "well she's young enough that after they waste her time for 3 years she'll still be in her prime". 

[SirEdger]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

 

Yeah, he's not helping himself right now.

[KawadaSmile]

 

Just an unhinged man

[sek69]

21 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

Yeah, he's not helping himself right now.

At this point he might as well go full napalm, both sides seem to be pretty entrenched in their stance so it's not like the bridge can be burned any more. 

[SirEdger]

True but when you've seen how "well" it went for Harper/Brodie Lee when he did it and seeing that both Toni Storm & Brian Kendrick got their releases because they handled things privately, Ali should know better than doing this.

[sek69]

Honestly he should challenge the legality of that in court and make WWE either give him his release or defend their illegal-ass contracts in a courtroom. 

Especially since they set a precedent of granting some people's request for a release and not his, I'm sure they don't want to answer how they decide who gets it and who doesn't.

[C.S.]

2 hours ago, SirEdger said:

Yeah, he's not helping himself right now.

He's not hurting himself either.

He has zero to lose at this point. 

[Reel]

3 hours ago, sek69 said:

Honestly he should challenge the legality of that in court and make WWE either give him his release or defend their illegal-ass contracts in a courtroom. 

I'm very skeptical that this is actually the case.

I'm not a lawyer, I've never seen the contract, but this running assumption that these contracts are illegal and won't hold up in court comes from where exactly? Is it that people don't really understand what an independent contractor is and think it means you can do whatever you want or is it a Bix article or something? The idea that a billion dollar, publicly-traded company has every one of its wrestlers, the key drivers of their business, signed to illegal contracts that won't stand up in court for a second, I don't know, it just doesn't seem all that likely to me.

[sek69]

There's been several cases through the years of lawyers who've read over WWF/E contracts and would laugh at how unenforceable most of it was. WWE gets away with it because they have the greater financial means to bury anyone who challenges them in court (which is why they backed off when Brock challenged their world wide non compete, they didn't want it on record that a court called any of the terms of their contracts bullshit).

After all, Vince has shown many times (mostly re: how he responds to competitors) that he defaults to the same playbook he's used since the 70s/80s so their recent financial success wouldn't do anything to change that. 

[Reel]

I haven't seen those, I'd be interested in seeing that. Either way, I would say the 'see you in 2 1/2 years' tweets mean they aren't easily voided in court. 

[NintendoLogic]

The IRS has guidelines for determining whether workers should be classified as employees or independent contractors. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader what WWE wrestlers should be classified as under these guidelines.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee

As far as the legality of WWE contracts goes, the track record of wrestlers who challenge them in court and go all the way seems to be pretty good (see, e.g., Brock Lesnar). But litigation is expensive, especially when the other party has a significant resources advantage and is willing to drag things out as long as possible. Look at what a drain of time and money the Amann lawsuit, which was basically an open-and-shut case, was for CM Punk. For most wrestlers, it's easier to simply ride out the contract than take it to court and risk being bled dry.

[Reel]

I agree that by the letter of the law, WWE wrestlers are not independent contractors, but neither are Uber Drivers, or FedEx drivers, are plenty of other independent contractors who work for giant corporations, and when those people have challenged that statute in court, they have lost. So I agree, they don't meet the guidelines, but no one seems interested in enforcing those guidelines other than John Oliver. 

Any other examples other than Brock, almost 20 years ago, where he had to sit out of wrestling for over a year?

[Jmare007]

Didn't Rey try to challenge them in court because WWE didn't want to lose him so Vince try to pull that fucked up "you spent XX days injured so you owe me that time and your contract doesn't end when it says it does""? IIRC they ended up granting him his release and avoid litigation.

[strobogo]

They announced his contract expired, not that he was released. I think they just held him on ice for whatever that time injured was until the contract ran out.

[PeteF3]

41 minutes ago, Reel said:

I agree that by the letter of the law, WWE wrestlers are not independent contractors, but neither are Uber Drivers, or FedEx drivers, are plenty of other independent contractors who work for giant corporations, and when those people have challenged that statute in court, they have lost. So I agree, they don't meet the guidelines, but no one seems interested in enforcing those guidelines other than John Oliver. 

Any other examples other than Brock, almost 20 years ago, where he had to sit out of wrestling for over a year?

Uber Drivers aren't independent contractors? Could you expand on that?

[Reel]

25 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

Uber Drivers aren't independent contractors? Could you expand on that?

They are classified as such, but people have fought against that distinction, claiming that they need the same benefits as employees, pretty much the same exact case people made for wrestlers. So far, status quo on that front. There was the whole deal with the California ballot initiative where Uber and Lyft spent a ton of cash campaigning and won. 

https://fortune.com/2021/12/28/gig-economy-uber-lyft-doordash-independent-contractors-nlrb-review/