AEW Dynamite - Sept 8 2021

[Tetsujin]

8 hours ago, Matt D said:

I just don’t see Eddie as the guy they want to take the belt off Miro. It would be a good moment but he doesn’t need the win and the belt as much as someone else on the roster might. 

You can have Eddie get his big moment, give him a two-three months title reign, and the. Miro winning the belt back and finishing the rivalry. I agree Miro should be defeated by someone younger that needs that push, but that doesn't mean Kingston can't get a run first.

[MoS]

It would be foolish to delay Hangman's coronation for too long, so I hope the long-term story involves Kenny losing the title to Hangman and spiralling and hitting rock bottom, and Hangman doing his old friend a favour and helping him get back on track by reuniting him with what all the gold he had collected was a mere, poor, inadequate substitute of: his golden lover

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, Tetsujin said:

You can have Eddie get his big moment, give him a two-three months title reign, and the. Miro winning the belt back and finishing the rivalry. I agree Miro should be defeated by someone younger that needs that push, but that doesn't mean Kingston can't get a run first.

I was talking to Loss about this and his feeling is that in AEW the people make the belts as opposed to the belts making the people. That said you can only end Miro's dominant reign for the first time once. If they were to have Kingston beat him and then him win it back, the way to do it would be to add something to his act in that second encounter to heat him back up (akin to how Diesel debuted to help Michaels retake the IC belt from Jannetty), like, I don't know, CJ Perry.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

2 hours ago, MoS said:

It would be foolish to delay Hangman's coronation for too long, so I hope the long-term story involves Kenny losing the title to Hangman and spiralling and hitting rock bottom, and Hangman doing his old friend a favour and helping him get back on track by reuniting him with what all the gold he had collected was a mere, poor, inadequate substitute of: his golden lover

I agree Hangman still has to be the one to win the belt from Kenny.  I think Kenny beats Bryan at Full Gear and Hangman makes his return during the Elite beatdown portion of the post-match to save Bryan.  The Dynamite following Full Gear is AEW’s first show in Virginia so Hangman can get the true hero’s welcome when he comes out that night and they kick off the feud for real that night.

[Matt D]

12 minutes ago, Zoo Enthusiast said:

I agree Hangman still has to be the one to win the belt from Kenny.  I think Kenny beats Bryan at Full Gear and Hangman makes his return during the Elite beatdown portion of the post-match to save Bryan.  The Dynamite following Full Gear is AEW’s first show in Virginia so Hangman can get the true hero’s welcome when he comes out that night and they kick off the feud for real that night.

One thing with Page.

They've picked up a bunch of new fans over the last two or three weeks I imagine.

I doubt any of them even know who Page is since he's been totally off TV and not referenced and isn't any sort of national name.

I mean, I barely have any real idea of who Page is. He's sort of like a modern day Cowboy James Storm that drinks and hangs out with the Dark Order?

[El-P]

15 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I doubt any of them even know who Page is since he's been totally off TV and not referenced and isn't any sort of national name.

Anyone remotely familiar with the promotion knows who Hangman Page is. He's been there since the very beginning and has been a key character of the promotion. He's been one of the most over guy in the company for the last year or so. So, sure, they probably picked up a bunch of new fans in the past few weeks, but even if say, you picked up 10% new fans (which is a lot, I'm not sure it is that much), the day Page gets back he'll get that star reaction and people who don't know him well or at all will get the message pretty quick.

As far as the long-term storyline, I mean, at some point people have to get with the program and pick up what they can. It's a storyline that can you trace back years now, with tons of layers. The main crux of the story won't be too hard to follow and get behind : Page coming back to get revenge on his former friends.

[Jimmy Redman]

I kind of agree with both of you in that Page has been absent for this whole post-Punk period (so to speak) and completely new fans wouldn't know him from Adam. So to speak. 

I'd be in that boat, I know enough from reading about it but I've literally never seen Hangman before in my life.

BUT I also agree with El P that if you just bring him back in a big moment where he looks like a star that's all you need. AEW have the momentum to do it. 

Also, I don't think you need Kingston to BEAT Miro in New York. Just to do the match. I think Kingston coming out for a title match in front of like 20k hometown fans going apeshit for him in the biggest match of his life is where he wins. 

Has Jungle Boy lost to Miro yet? He seems like a natural candidate to eventually dethrone him. And I think there's lots of juice in Miro yet.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I hope we get a Jurassic Express title win before Jungle Boy goes out on his own.  They are the heart and soul of the company.

[Kadaveri]

9 hours ago, El-P said:

Anyone remotely familiar with the promotion knows who Hangman Page is. He's been there since the very beginning and has been a key character of the promotion. He's been one of the most over guy in the company for the last year or so. So, sure, they probably picked up a bunch of new fans in the past few weeks, but even if say, you picked up 10% new fans (which is a lot, I'm not sure it is that much), the day Page gets back he'll get that star reaction and people who don't know him well or at all will get the message pretty quick.

I think you may be underestimating just how much AEW might have grown its audience in the last couple of months. I had a look at the ratings and Dynamite averaged 807k viewers from the start of 2021 until the episode Adam Page was last on the show, and the run when he was most prominently featured last year was a bit lower than that. Dynamite has averaged 1,109k viewers since Page last appeared and this week's episode did 1,319k.

Obviously suddenly have more viewers is a good thing, but if they're gonna bring him back soonish to challenge Kenny for the title I think they're gonna have to keep in mind that there's gonna be a lot of people watching who aren't invested in that storyline yet. Doesn't mean they shouldn't do it, but he do with some kind of "reintroduction".

[Boss Rock]

I'm confident Page will be fine.

[Matt D]

I’m not super worried about it either. I’m just thinking that for the chosen one, he’s extremely absent and the top of the card is filling up with superstars. It’s hard to say how to fix that when they’re already overpacking their shows though.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

7 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I’m not super worried about it either. I’m just thinking that for the chosen one, he’s extremely absent and the top of the card is filling up with superstars. It’s hard to say how to fix that when they’re already overpacking their shows though.

This is probably a stupid thing to say, but... I have faith in a wrestling company. 

[sek69]

Yeah you guys aren't wrong in pointing out Page could easily get lost in the crowd, but considering they probably have two major long term angles tied to him (his title chase and the Dark Order deal) I'm confident he'll be okay.

I'm guessing soon TayJay will run out of patience getting the Dark Order to stop fighting each other and get Page to help them heal like they helped him. Hangman's speech to the DO could be the greatest babyface promo ever if they do it even halfway correct. 

[rovert]

I assume Adam Page will confront Dan Lambert and his crew to set them straight about Millenials!

Page can have some nice matches Page and Scorpio to re-establish himself. 

Also will fix the Dark Order infighting potentially too. 

[Matt D]

21 minutes ago, rovert said:

I assume Adam Page will confront Dan Lambert and his crew to set them straight about Millenials!

Page can have some nice matches Page and Scorpio to re-establish himself. 

Also will fix the Dark Order infighting potentially too. 

Given the pace of the shows and how quickly the announcers move on to the next thing, I think it’ll be subconsciously obvious to most viewers that if someone or something is getting that TV time then they matter. 

I do think they should be using their YouTube channel to get people up to speed on some things right now though. Have a familiar guy like Wight or Henry or Christian (but obviously not Punk or Bryan) create a minute or two intro bumper for some of the best and most important matches/moments in company history and make a curated series out of it to on-ramp interested new fans. 

[Boss Rock]

I'd like to be wrong but I assume Page won't be back in time for Full Gear. At that rate I expect him to return to confront Omega and ideally you build that to another Winter is Coming-esque Dynamite to close out the year. No need to wait until Revolution.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

48 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Given the pace of the shows and how quickly the announcers move on to the next thing, I think it’ll be subconsciously obvious to most viewers that if someone or something is getting that TV time then they matter. 

I do think they should be using their YouTube channel to get people up to speed on some things right now though. Have a familiar guy like Wight or Henry or Christian (but obviously not Punk or Bryan) create a minute or two intro bumper for some of the best and most important matches/moments in company history and make a curated series out of it to on-ramp interested new fans. 

Speaking of their YouTube channel, the algorithm threw one from their channel at me the other day called "The Story of Jurassic Express" and it was perfectly made.

[Jmare007]

1 hour ago, Boss Rock said:

I'd like to be wrong but I assume Page won't be back in time for Full Gear. At that rate I expect him to return to confront Omega and ideally you build that to another Winter is Coming-esque Dynamite to close out the year. No need to wait until Revolution.

If he's 2 months away from coming back. Do you still wait for him and keep the belt on Omega so Page can finally win it from Kenny? Honest question since I know very little of AEW's kayfabe and what the fans that have been following the past 2 years feel about this kind of thing. 

I know Omega vs Danielson is a huge match but it kind of opens a bunch of problems if it's made for the title. I guess it's a good problem to have but if the end goal is Page getting the main belt, then I'd try to delay Dragon vs Kenny till after Omega drops the strap.

I also have no clue how "damaged" would Page's character be if his own coronation gets delayed 6-10 months because of the new arrivals/circumstances. What if Tony Khan pulls a Gedo and punts his title win till All Out 2022 or something?

 

[MoS]

Delaying Naito's win worked great for New Japan but didn't work great for Naito's personal drawing power himself. The difference was that Naito was quite older and Gedo decided to prioritize continuing to build his young ace's mythical landmark reign so he became a GOAT level wrestler in kayfabe, and so another young guy who was going to open the US market for them could get the rub of beating him instead. It was shrewd long-term booking, even if the Omega reign didn't exactly work out due to political reasons. 

The situation is different here. Punk and Danielson (and Omega himself now) are the older guys, Hangman is the one who needs to be put over strong and built to carry AEW forward. In that respect, I firmly believe he has to be the guy who takes the title from Omega. Anything else damages AEW long-term imo. The only question is when. I am a firm believer in not elongating the chase; there are so many examples across decades and promotions in the US of a babyface getting his momentum hurt cuz he chased too long, ultimately damaging both him and the promotion. With Hangman, I think they can wait a bit now because of the influx of so many hot new talents, but they have to come back to him, and they have to do within a reasonable period of time.

In a way, they've booked themselves into a corner because having Punk and Danielson come in hot means they kind of need to have them challenge Omega for the title soon, to strike while the iron is hot. But that is also precisely the reason they can't take the belt off Omega. They don't need to be built for the title shot. They will give you excellent gates/ratings/buys if you slot them in the main event right now, and they will keep the iron hot, but they also can't be the ones carrying your main event scene going forward. It has to be Hangman. It's the one great storyline the Elite has done. It's the only time in Dynamite that the Elite quarters were consistently getting the highest ratings. It has to culminate with Hangman beating Omega for the title, relatively soon. I was very surprised to hear Dave consider giving Punk the world title. Hulk Hogan came back to WWF in 2002 to a tremendously emotional welcome, was doing great ratings, receiving massive pops, and the day he won the world title, all his drawing power basically ended, cuz it's the idea that is actually more appealing than the actual reality itself. Dave knows this, cuz he covered this in real time and was pointing out it would happen before it did. I am not saying Punk in 2021 is Hogan in 2002, but the parallels are there. Danielson I still understand giving the world title to, although I wouldn't. But not Punk. 

[Matt D]

You could do a medium length Danielson reign with the Elite as a unit being too much for him, leading to Omega getting it back. The story could be that Danielson might have had Omega’s number but it’s Page who has the Elite’s.

[sek69]

Kenny and Bryan is such a "this would be cool but it will never happen" dream money match you kinda HAVE to do it as soon as possible. The match will have the whole world jizzing stars and it won't hurt Bryan a bit to lose. Punk's a guy who doesn't need to have a match with Kenny right away, he could easily have it after a potential title loss to Page. 

If I'm TK, I'm putting Kenny/Bryan on the next PPV and watch it set another record buyrate, and depending on when he is returning either have Page in a in a match with someone like Adam Cole to "earn" his shot. That's a hell of a 1-2 punch to top the show. Then maybe if you're feeling froggy you can pull a Luger/Hogan and have Page win the title on a Very Special Episode of Dynamite that causes another wave of think pieces about how AEW has made wrestling fun again.

[MoS]

2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

You could do a medium length Danielson reign with the Elite as a unit being too much for him, leading to Omega getting it back. The story could be that Danielson might have had Omega’s number but it’s Page who has the Elite’s.

If they do this in a modern version of "Luger gets a one week run amongst the nWo's reign of terror" way, then I am all for it. I get the sense from TK's interviews though that he doesn't want to do transitional runs with his main title, so dunno if he will go for it. 

[Zoo Enthusiast]

20 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Kenny and Bryan is such a "this would be cool but it will never happen" dream money match you kinda HAVE to do it as soon as possible. The match will have the whole world jizzing stars and it won't hurt Bryan a bit to lose. Punk's a guy who doesn't need to have a match with Kenny right away, he could easily have it after a potential title loss to Page. 

If I'm TK, I'm putting Kenny/Bryan on the next PPV and watch it set another record buyrate, and depending on when he is returning either have Page in a in a match with someone like Adam Cole to "earn" his shot. That's a hell of a 1-2 punch to top the show. Then maybe if you're feeling froggy you can pull a Luger/Hogan and have Page win the title on a Very Special Episode of Dynamite that causes another wave of think pieces about how AEW has made wrestling fun again.

This is pretty close to how I see it shaking out, though I was thinking Page is a surprise return at Full Gear.  I definitely think a lot of people are going to buy that show, either way.

[Jmare007]

11 minutes ago, Zoo Enthusiast said:

This is pretty close to how I see it shaking out, though I was thinking Page is a surprise return at Full Gear.  I definitely think a lot of people are going to buy that show, either way.

I also lean towards that. Bryan can't beat Kenny at Full Gear because of The Elite and when he's about to get killed, Page makes the save. I'm just too ignorant on AEW to grasp how a DQ/non-finish for Omega/Dragon would be received and if Page showing up would make up for it. From what I've read in this board, it certainly seems like it would though.

33 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Kenny and Bryan is such a "this would be cool but it will never happen" dream money match you kinda HAVE to do it as soon as possible. The match will have the whole world jizzing stars and it won't hurt Bryan a bit to lose. Punk's a guy who doesn't need to have a match with Kenny right away, he could easily have it after a potential title loss to Page. 

If I'm TK, I'm putting Kenny/Bryan on the next PPV and watch it set another record buyrate, and depending on when he is returning either have Page in a in a match with someone like Adam Cole to "earn" his shot. That's a hell of a 1-2 punch to top the show. Then maybe if you're feeling froggy you can pull a Luger/Hogan and have Page win the title on a Very Special Episode of Dynamite that causes another wave of think pieces about how AEW has made wrestling fun again.

I struggle with this too. I know Dragon can recover from any loss, specially in an environment like AEW. But drawing wise, I don't think he'll ever mean as much as he does right now. So would beating him clean hurt that? Not sure, but going the safe route and having a non-finish seems like the better option. Specially if it's to build to Page coming back and getting the job done once and for all.

[sek69]

TK seems to be very Baba-like in his booking so far where matches have to have a finish with no DQs/countouts/any other bullshit. The only way I can see them doing a non pinfall/submission finish is if they do a time limit draw, which could work because as far as I recall they haven't done one yet.