WWE Cell in a Hell 2022

[El-P]

38 minutes ago, Dale Wolfe said:

Is this true? It seems really reckless to be putting your opponents through spots and having them in your hands without being upfront about such a big issue/condition. I'm surprised by that. 

He has lived with it for a while now, to the point he could not lay straight on his back without seeing the room circling around, as he has told in an interview a while ago now. Very clearly it did not affect his work, as showed by the way he would perform, as he found ways to counterbalance it. But still, pretty much a mindfuck.

[KawadaSmile]

That seems ill advised too, tbh

Whole body held together by paper clips and chewing gum, his head spinning like a record baby. Either management knew and just trusted his word (maybe he said he would hold things until he could put Page over?) or he didn't tell anyone for some time, which is unwise.

I mean, while not being blatantly self-serving like Cody showing up with a dead arm, we have time and time again seen shit like this happening. Paul Orndorff's arms were totally different because he didn't treat it as fast as he could - why risk a big pay day? WCW had Macho Man work twice with a torn tricep and fucked up his arm even more. By comparison, last night seemed like a careful approach.

Again, I really don't think a bad or dangerous precedent was set yesterday, because the precedent was set ages ago. This has happened in wrestling and in other sports, backstage and in the open.

[NintendoLogic]

7 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

WCW had Macho Man work twice with a torn tricep and fucked up his arm even more.

You need to stop reading those rag sheets, brother. Macho Man's arm was perfect.

[El-P]

15 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Again, I really don't think a bad or dangerous precedent was set yesterday, because the precedent was set ages ago. 

Not in this way, no. The entire mythification through working through a very visible, grotesque and obviously very painfull injury to this extent has no equivalent that I can remember. Again, the main issue here is not "working injured", it's the glorification of working injured, pushed through absolute extremes because of the visual. That glorification in a very blatant meta-narrative (people did not feel sympathy for Cody because of his pro-wrestling selling but because of his actual pain because of a very visible and graphic injury) is what is the problem with this stuff, and what sends a terrible message.

[Jesse Ewiak]

3 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

I think Seth has become a tremendous asset. He doesn't need to win a lot, and is massively over just due to him being a master troll in the build of his feuds. 

• Dressing up as Halloween Havoc '98 Rey? Great.
• Showing up in full SHIELD gear, complete with the theme song? Aces.
• Having a polka dot gear to fuck with Cody? Masterful.

Like, he really doesn't *need* to hold a championship title at this point. His character work is so damn good right now that most of his feuds are engaging because of it. He found his groove in ring, too. Before he was a heel who wrestled like a babyface, and when he was a face he just too whiny. Now he's intentionally whiny, controlled his offense, and is just great.

 

It's odd there's all this talk about 50/50 booking and how it achieves nothing for years, but when somebody actually does a series of jobs to make somebody a tippy-top guy, all of the sudden that person who does the jobs is a goober. I mean, was Triple H a goober when he put Batista over three times in a row? Like, Rollins is a made guy for the current WWE audience - he could lose every PPV match for the next year, and be just as over within a few weeks.

Like, this is how you actually build up a babyface - the heel talks shit, and gets shut the hell up once he actually has to get in the ring. 

 

[El-P]

Case in point : Cody Rhodes receives most of the praise for working with a bad injury. Meanwhile, Seth Rollins who most probably hold the thing together and took care of his injured opponent gets what kind of credit for being a pro ? Everything is about Cody, despite having done something that he should not have done. Yeah, this is all screwed up.

[KawadaSmile]

1 minute ago, El-P said:

Case in point : Cody Rhodes receives most of the praise for working with a bad injury. Meanwhile, Seth Rollins who most probably hold the thing together and took care of his injured opponent gets what kind of credit for being a pro ? Everything is about Cody, despite having done something that he should not have done. Yeah, this is all screwed up.

I feel that Rollins' stock rose just as much, man. He is THE guy right now to get a program over, to set new people up for success. Management does see that type of stuff - it's the reason he's heavily featured even when one glimpse of his recent PPV win-loss record tells us he's had it rough. 

15 minutes ago, El-P said:

Not in this way, no. The entire mythification through working through a very visible, grotesque and obviously very painfull injury to this extent has no equivalent that I can remember. Again, the main issue here is not "working injured", it's the glorification of working injured, pushed through absolute extremes because of the visual. That glorification in a very blatant meta-narrative (people did not feel sympathy for Cody because of his pro-wrestling selling but because of his actual pain because of a very visible and graphic injury) is what is the problem with this stuff, and what sends a terrible message.

I dunno, bubba. I truly get your point, and maybe because a pec tear is visually one of the most gruesome injuries in terms of visuals, it really feels like they went overboard last night.

But at the same time, it doesn't feel *new* to me. Joel Embiid was playing playoff basketball with a torn ligament in his thumb, a fucked up eye, and had a concussion, just so his team could have a chance of winning one game. The discourse of him "having that dog in him" was prevalent.

Ronaldo Nazário, aka the greatest Ronaldo in footy, played on styrofoam knees just so his team could have a chance of reaching the Champions League, and as a result of pushing it further (and it was known how fucked his knee was at the time), in 2000 his knee EXPLODED. The road to his recovery got attention from the media, Brazilian and international, there were lots of vignettes on TV, to the point they ended up becoming a meme, and by 2002 he was back, winning the World Cup and all. Martyrdom was 100% there.

In regards to pro wrestling, I dunno. Maybe it's because things have changed a lot since then in regards to how we consume things, but I am pretty sure the narrative surrounding the Orndorff/Hogan feud would be different, knowing what we know now. Mr. Wonderful's arm *shrunk*, yet the feud kept going as it was doing huge numbers.

[Flyin' Brian]

5 hours ago, Matt D said:

I'm not saying Cody doesn't have some legitimate things to work out, like his resentment for fans who dare to have an emotional connection to the memory of Dusty

I'm interested in this. Is there something you are referring to, an incident or interview where this has come out?

[Matt D]

10 minutes ago, Flyin' Brian said:

I'm interested in this. Is there something you are referring to, an incident or interview where this has come out?

There are more interviews that lean into it a bit more but i can't really find them. You get a taste of it here though:

https://wrestling-edge.com/cody-rhodes-angle-dusty-rhodes-despised-leaving-wwe-stardust/

[Embrodak]

Idk, it’s wrestling, bros. It’s a bunch of carny bodybuilders, gymnasts, college wrestlers, and failure-to-launch MMA guys throwing themselves at the ground to tell a a story of combat and struggle. Stuff with a real-world valence is always going to have an extra whiff of legitimacy and intrigue, especially post-kayfabe. I don’t think there’s going to be some extra pressure on guys to push through the pain of serious injuries, this was Cody taking the opportunity of a lifetime to be a god amongst contemporary babyfaces and set himself up for a huge return pop.

 

idk, thinking the gruesome and gratuitous stuff in that Anarchy match, or the Hangman-Archer death match, or any Darby or Sammy match, are A-Okay, while a guy doing something with actual emotional, performative, and narrative heft that was probably less dangerous is not seems like a weird, concern troll-y double standard to me. Guys need to be protected from themselves when they can do something safe with a HUGE potential payoff, but not when they put themselves in life-threatening danger for ice-cold TV matches or poorly-built PPVs? I’m not saying anybody is actively trolling, but what Cody did last night strikes me as WRESTLING to the core, and I’m confused at the notion that it was some worker-hostile breach of decency. (I’d also argue that a proper class analysis would place Cody in more of a petite bourgeois category than that of a proletarian, but the independent contractor thing really does muddy the waters.)

[ragemaster]

8 hours ago, El-P said:

  I obviously don't want anyone to get injured, including Cody Rhodes, but I laughed my ass off watching his stupid ass take a bump onto fire because he was desperate for cheers. 

The fire bump was an accident, it wasn't the plan for him to land in it like he did, or for it to stick to him.

Shit happens 

Desperate for cheers is probably every wrestler who ever lived. 

 

[El-P]

20 minutes ago, ragemaster said:

The fire bump was an accident, it wasn't the plan for him to land in it like he did, or for it to stick to him.

I know. Which made it even funnier. Cody Rhodes fully morphing into Mick Foley certainly wasn't on anyone's radar 5 years ago.

[MJH]

I think the decision for Cody to work was, on balance, probably the correct one. According to the video I've seen from a doctor, the chances of him further aggravating the injury were very slim; essentially if he didn't perform any major lifts with his right arm, he'd be fine. He was also in there with Seth who, for all the things I (/we) might criticise him for as a worker, is technically superb and would be one of the safest guys on the roster to work such a match with. You've also got to factor in how visual the injury is: this isn't a neck issue, a knee issue, or, God forbid, a concussion issue;  this was the chance to have the most viscerally "legit" WWE match since, what, when Eddy cut himself too deep? This was the best chance for his Austin bleeding in the sharpshooter moment, and you just don't pass that up. 

However, Jerome is absolutely right about the glorification of it. It's fine to work through an injury (for a short period to get to a major match and then do the angle) if you can take care of yourself, which they did. But the glorification of it is what leads to people forcing their way through a match when they can't do it safely and when there isn't such a great image to really connect their injury with the audience. It's similar to how the danger is not in Cody working this match: he will have had an injection and coupling that with the adrenaline won't have been in any significant pain during it. The real danger vis a vis Cody's health is after he gets this surgery: the medication he will take during his rehab is far more addictive, and thus dangerous, than the injection he took for the match, and if he comes back too soon whilst still on (or weaning himself off) the painkillers... well, we know that story.   

*

As for the match itself... I thought it was fine. But I don't think the match lived up to the injury, or they truly milked it for all it was worth. I think it's telling that the image of the match is Cody's reveal, not him in some torturous submission hold that, say, Danielson would've gone the route of. There really shouldn't be a single photo from the match where Cody is not at least grimacing and I felt some of his offence came a bit too easy. I get that modern wrestling is going to be more back-and-forth than I would like, but this really feels like the kind of match where you need those longer periods of control for Seth and really sit in the drama of it. 

And as a final aside, dear God that camerawork is awful. 

[NintendoLogic]

Dave went ***** for the main event. First WWE main roster match to get a fiveboy since Punk/Cena. To be honest, I'm not sure I want to live in a world where Cody Rhodes has as many five-star matches as Bret Hart.

[KawadaSmile]

Listen, Hashimoto has more DUDs and negative star matches than 5* ones. If you think about it too much, you'll pop a vein.

[rovert]

Watching it I likened it to Brock Lesnar vs John Cena (Extreme Rules 2012) in terms of a "live live" compelling main event up there with any other combat sport. He gave that match ****1/2 and I would go that for this too. NOT a full fiver. 

[sek69]

I just can't wrap my head around people who seemingly base their lives around star ratings that they lose their shit on Twitter over 1/2 or 1/4 stars. It's a meme but those are the folks who desperately need to touch grass.

[sek69]

Smackdown's kicking off, so presumptive thoughts and prayers for Ricochet's chest since it's about to get caved the hell in. 

[sek69]

Oh hey, they found Lacey Evans after she was supposed to be on Raw two weeks ago. 

[sek69]

Is Ronda a heel? She's facing Shotzi who (I think?) is still a heel but she's acting like a heel doing this promo. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

9 hours ago, sek69 said:

I just can't wrap my head around people who seemingly base their lives around star ratings that they lose their shit on Twitter over 1/2 or 1/4 stars. It's a meme but those are the folks who desperately need to touch grass.

No shit, right? How many stars do I add to Cody vs Seth because the kids here forgot Wrestling is fake and were totally invested? And all three told me , "I didn't like Cody but now he's my favorite wrestler."