Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[Childs]

3 hours ago, Speaker-to-Animals said:

In almost any other job if a worker criticised the company in front of customers and the media, ran off and hid in a closet and then punched executives that came to discuss the matter with him that employee would be long gone with few people opting to nail their colours to his mast. I'm not sure why this is different other than The Elite are polarising and wrestling is held to an abysmally low standard. I say that as someone that dislikes The Elite but the story of this situation, as we know it right now, is in their favour.

It's also true in almost every industry that there are a few people seen as valuable enough that they're not constrained by the same rules as everyone else. We can debate whether or not Punk deserves that status, but it's one of the realities at play here. 

His injury is a blessing, frankly, because if TK wants, he can wait 6-9 months and then decide if there's a compromise to be had and money to be made. 

[Flyin' Brian]

3 hours ago, Speaker-to-Animals said:

Has anyone brought up the likelihood AEW contracts, and almost certainly Punk's, have non-disparagement clauses in them and ripping into management in public will generally result in a fairly prompt meeting with company officials given Punk's history? That would explain the EVPs and legal being involved, the talent relations joining in is also expected as Punk verbally attacked AEW contracted talent.

In almost any other job if a worker criticised the company in front of customers and the media, ran off and hid in a closet and then punched executives that came to discuss the matter with him that employee would be long gone with few people opting to nail their colours to his mast. I'm not sure why this is different other than The Elite are polarising and wrestling is held to an abysmally low standard. I say that as someone that dislikes The Elite but the story of this situation, as we know it right now, is in their favour.

The defences that hinge on Punk feeling threatened (that he'd be Brody'd?) are nonsensical as out of the talent involved it is Punk that has a history of backstage fighting and punching (innocent) fans. I cannot recall an instance where Omega or the Bucks or Daniels or the others in the "mob" have such incidents and certainly none of them have a reputation that would make someone fear for their safety backstage.

Lol Tony Khan the owner of the company was sitting right beside Punk when he did it. I’m pretty sure he didn’t order anyone to go confront Punk in his dressing room that you refer to as ‘hiding in a closet’. The EVP’s and others took it upon themselves to confront Punk in a way that looked like an angry mob looking to gang up on one man. 
 

Aside from the fact that any discipline related to contract clauses would and should have been handled by Tony Khan, you’re assuming that EVP is anything more than a show title without any real power. Cody was an EVP too and he’s gone. In any other job, the boss would be the one to handle this situation and it certainly wouldn’t involve sending a bunch of people to confront the guy Khan just shared the stage with in the middle of the night. 
 

I think someone may be exaggerating about Punk’s history. If he had such a reputation as you claim of backstage fighting and punching innocent fans surely that would have kept Tony Khan from hiring such a dangerous and unstable individual. The mob came to him in his dressing room, one person against at least 3 or more, without the permission or blessing of Tony Khan the owner. I’d expect and be ready for a fight too. 

[NintendoLogic]

If there was legitimate concern that Punk was liable to fly off the the handle at the slightest provocation, swarming into his locker room unannounced was just about the worst possible way to defuse the situation. If the Elite really are management, they need to be held to a higher standard. Part of being a leader is knowing how to deal with people, including head cases, and not just throwing your weight around.

[strobogo]

"Mob" and "swarm" also seem overblown. It was three guys Punk literally told to come talk to him to his face, and a couple of other people to supervise and/or attempt to prevent them from going at all. I find it a bit difficult to believe The Elite went in there looking to triple team Punk.

[Matt D]

19 minutes ago, strobogo said:

"Mob" and "swarm" also seem overblown. It was three guys Punk literally told to come talk to him to his face, and a couple of other people to supervise and/or attempt to prevent them from going at all. I find it a bit difficult to believe The Elite went in there looking to triple team Punk.

They’ve been abusing the five count for years.

[Flyin' Brian]

18 minutes ago, strobogo said:

"Mob" and "swarm" also seem overblown. It was three guys Punk literally told to come talk to him to his face, and a couple of other people to supervise and/or attempt to prevent them from going at all. I find it a bit difficult to believe The Elite went in there looking to triple team Punk.

And yet a fight broke out. Punk isn’t innocent in all this, as him being suspended and stripped of his title shows. But Omega and the Bucks were suspended and stripped of their titles too, so anyone claiming they are innocent and completely professional and were just acting as EVP’s are deliberately ignoring all the facts. 

[strobogo]

6 minutes ago, Flyin' Brian said:

And yet a fight broke out. Punk isn’t innocent in all this, as him being suspended and stripped of his title shows. But Omega and the Bucks were suspended and stripped of their titles too, so anyone claiming they are innocent and completely professional and were just acting as EVP’s are deliberately ignoring all the facts. 

Yes, a fight did break out, and all sides say Punk was the one to throw the first punch. Whether you believe it was a "sucker punch" or "Punk knew a fight was going to happen so he figured he'd get the first shot in", Punk escalated to physicality. Perhaps there wouldn't have been a fight if Punk didn't literally start a fight.

[Coffey]

45 minutes ago, Matt D said:

They’ve been abusing the five count for years.

King Kong Bundy rollin' in his grave! 

Honestly, both sides look bad & handled this very unprofessionally. Which, pro-wrestlers aren't always going to be the most professional employees to begin with but I feel it looks worse for people in a position of power. I also think it looks/sounds bad that C.M. Punk had his own locker room to begin with but I guess that's a moot point. I also have no idea why Ace Steele was even there/around - he didn't need to be there for the angle & most people didn't know who the fuck he was. This whole thing is a mess & everyone involved looks worse - including Tony Khan at the media scrum just sitting there making stupid faces in disbelief.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Coffey
I can't spell

[Flyin' Brian]

18 minutes ago, strobogo said:

Yes, a fight did break out, and all sides say Punk was the one to throw the first punch. Whether you believe it was a "sucker punch" or "Punk knew a fight was going to happen so he figured he'd get the first shot in", Punk escalated to physicality. Perhaps there wouldn't have been a fight if Punk didn't literally start a fight.

Perhaps there wouldn’t have been a fight if a large group of people hadn’t barged into Punk’s dressing room in the middle of the night. I don’t know how anyone could expect that situation to turn out positively. ‘All sides’? I haven’t seen anything that was an official statement or release related to the investigation yet. It’s all speculation and second and third hand accounts at this point. We’ll see what the investigation says. The facts at the moment are Punk, Omega, and the Bucks all got stripped and suspended. Omega got pulled from AAA Triplemania XXX next month. He was pulled from being part of any official AEW presentations in Japan last week. Strange to do that to someone who doesn’t deserve any of the blame for what went down. 

[KawadaSmile]

2 hours ago, Childs said:

It's also true in almost every industry that there are a few people seen as valuable enough that they're not constrained by the same rules as everyone else.

Shit, Ezra Miller is doing some crazy Arkham Asylum villain stuff every damn week and still is going to be The Flash. If WB ain't recasting them after a criminal offense speedrun...

[strobogo]

2 hours ago, Flyin' Brian said:

Perhaps there wouldn’t have been a fight if a large group of people hadn’t barged into Punk’s dressing room in the middle of the night. I don’t know how anyone could expect that situation to turn out positively. ‘All sides’? I haven’t seen anything that was an official statement or release related to the investigation yet. It’s all speculation and second and third hand accounts at this point. We’ll see what the investigation says. The facts at the moment are Punk, Omega, and the Bucks all got stripped and suspended. Omega got pulled from AAA Triplemania XXX next month. He was pulled from being part of any official AEW presentations in Japan last week. Strange to do that to someone who doesn’t deserve any of the blame for what went down. 

I don't think anyone is saying Kenny/Bucks don't deserve any of the blame. They probably should have waited a day or two to confront Punk. However, Punk did talk wild shit out of pocket, literally told them to come see him, and then started the fight. I haven't even seen in any reports from either camp that Kenny/Bucks actually even threw any strikes.

[sek69]

FWIW, Konnan was hoping to get Kenny for TripleMania, but he was never officially booked because he was out with his injuries for so long. They've been doing an angle where multiple people are jockeying for the match (including Juvi hilariously shooting his shot on social media). Once they finally reached out, shit had already gone down and Kenny was on the naughty list. 

[Jmare007]

It's been two weeks since All Out and people still arguing over alleged arguments about once side not having any blame when anyone with a functional brain came to realization long ago that both sides were at fault.

At this point it seems this backstage fight will forever be discussed in pointless ways of showing which side was more in the wrong or not. Boring.

[Timbo Slice]

Never mind the fact that a majority of the information that has come out from one side of the argument in a way to paint the other side in the wrong, which has only made it worse. 

[sek69]

Truly, this will end up being this era's Montreal as in something that will be endlessly discussed by people who have no knowledge of what actually happened. 

[strobogo]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that Ace Steel is a fucking lunatic.

[Dav'oh]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

of what actually happened. 

Or if it happened at all.

Footage came out of the Chimaev/Holland/Diaz brouhaha. Why? Because this generation films everything.

As to the, "in what other industry would Punk get away with it?" - what other industry runs angles?

[sek69]

13 minutes ago, Dav'oh said:

Or if it happened at all.

Well unless Kenny bit his own arm, we know at least that much happened. 

Also pretty much every industry on the planet lets their top stars get away with (sometimes literal) murder. 

[Embrodak]

28 minutes ago, strobogo said:

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that Ace Steel is a fucking lunatic.

Dude saw three guys on his friend and immediately threw a chair and bit a dude. He’s the designated wild card of the squad.

[Embrodak]

Whatever Punk said, anybody with a modicum of managerial sense should have known that barging into Punk’s dressing room before Tony even finished the scrum was a boneheaded move. Dude was possibly still covered in blood! The act would be proverbial “fighting words” in basically any wrestling locker room prior to the last 15-20 years. If Megha and Daniels were there for any reason other than to try and stop the Bucks before they went in, they’re fucking nitwits, too.

[Dav'oh]

11 minutes ago, Embrodak said:

immediately...bit a dude.

The location of Kenny's "bite mark" makes it look like he was trying to crossface Ace. Unless you're suggesting Ace ran into the dressing room with his fangs bared trying to bite anything in his vicinity.

[strobogo]

Seems plausible 

[Matt D]

If he can still go, I have a great gimmick to build on the “steel” thing:

[Embrodak]

3 hours ago, Dav'oh said:

The location of Kenny's "bite mark" makes it look like he was trying to crossface Ace. Unless you're suggesting Ace ran into the dressing room with his fangs bared trying to bite anything in his vicinity.

I agree, though Kenny has a pacifist vibe that makes it plausible to me that he was just trying to pull the guys apart and Ace misinterpreted it in the heat of the moment.
 

There is a part of me that thinks Punk was immensely dumb to think the Elite were going to jump him. They are like the least likely three dude combo ever in wrestling to form a posse to initiate shoot fisticuffs. If he wasn’t (probably) hurting like crazy from the muscle tear and tired of having blood all over him, he probably would have realized that they were just coming to chew him out and throw their EVP weight around.

This would all be much simpler if we lived in more of an honor culture. A duel would be a very straightforward resolution of this conflict.

[sek69]

All I'm saying, and I like the Bucks, is that if I saw them coming at me my reaction wouldn't be to be so in fear of my safety I though I needed to star swinging to protect myself.  Honestly the only one of the group that could potentially have fighting skills is Kenny because as a Canadian he grew up playing hockey so is probably at least semi decent at throwing hands.