Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[Matt D]

39 minutes ago, Coffey said:

Someone should make a missing person poster for Miro at this point. Put him on some milk cartons. 

From Craig over at DVDVR a week or so ago with photo evidence.

“Miro’s working out at the same gym as my friend. And he’s told me he’s seen him there before so I’m like, you need to actually approach him and just say you’re a big fan of his work, but you miss him on Dynamite.

Turns out, yes, he has another role and isn’t wrestling for the time being, but he hopes to return soon, and him and CJ have a place in the valley for now. And then they exchanged small talk about auditioning.

So we can stop saying that Tony has nothing for him. Dude just realized where he can make money safely.”

[Embrodak]

On 10/31/2022 at 7:00 AM, strobogo said:

Hey man, I'm not arguing that Jericho is better than Punk on screen, or really off. Jericho has consistently been the worst part of AEW since day one and I shit on him constantly. I would definitely prefer Punk over Jericho in pretty much all contexts. 

But there is a difference in Punk working with the young talent, and Punk giving unsolicited advice to the world champ who is a 14 year vet whom he was about to replace as top guy and champion. This is exactly the same situation Punk himself was in in 2011 with Kevin Nash and HHH, and 2013 with The Rock, and boy did he not like that. He can be both helpful and a "cancer" in the locker room if he's rubbing more people wrong than right and bringing a bad attitude and/or drama.

Punk was pissed and threatening to leave months before All Out. A couple of months of pissy CM Punk could be a real dark cloud in the locker room. Still, Jericho sucks and I'd rather he be gone over Punk.

I don’t think he was a “cancer in the locker room”, though, I think he was annoying to the people who see themselves as having a right to be on top in AEW and resented this interloper coming in and thinking he should be treated like a bigger deal than them. And, hey, I totally get that, but that’s just locker room politics. Punk was clearly in a bad place, but he still did business with Adam Page after he touched his sorest spot on national television, still agreed to put over Jon Moxley in a television match, so however pissy he was or was not (and if he’s a “private dressing room” guy, how much of that bad mood is actually intersecting with the wider locker room?), he wasn’t Hogan or Michaels or anything. Jericho has taken this whole thing as an excuse to grandstand and self-aggrandize, and it’s disheartening to see the most deleterious influence in the company walk away from this whole thing smelling like roses.

Point taken Re: Punk in 2011, but the difference is Punk in 2011 was in a company run by a senile sex offender desperate to clamp down on someone who had gotten over without the proper approval and planning, while Page in 2022 was ostensibly in the company where the creative influencers are supposed to be clear-sighted and hip to the vibe and where his years-long, company-sanctioned push had fallen incredibly flat when he actually got the title. Punk in 2011 was having one of the hottest runs anybody had had since John Cena got big, while Adam Page in 2022 looked second fiddle next to Bryan Danielson and was doing ice cold death matches against Lance Archer weeks later. If Page perceived Punk to have been doing the same thing Nash and Rock did to Punk - or, to flip that around, if Page saw himself as comparable to Summer of Punk era Punk - then he *is* as emptyheaded as Punk intimated. Punk in 2011 feuding with a still-alive Eddie probably reacts a lot differently than Punk in 2011 feuding with a bizarrely-returned Kevin Nash, and frankly, Punk’s not wrong that in the context of AEW, he is the former, not the latter.

[sek69]

1 hour ago, Embrodak said:

Jericho has taken this whole thing as an excuse to grandstand and self-aggrandize, and it’s disheartening to see the most deleterious influence in the company walk away from this whole thing smelling like roses.

It's okay to not like Jericho,but considering signing him was a big part in getting a TV deal at the start (and may be a part of getting the next one), saying he's the most negative influence is frankly ridiculous hyperbole. 

[Dav'oh]

2 hours ago, Embrodak said:

and if he’s a “private dressing room” guy, how much of that bad mood is actually intersecting with the wider locker room?

Thank-you. I wondered how he could be a locker room cancer if he wasn't in the locker room.

"Munchausen syndrome is a rare type of mental disorder where a patient fakes illness to gain attention and sympathy" is the closest I got.

[strobogo]

3 hours ago, sek69 said:

It's okay to not like Jericho,but considering signing him was a big part in getting a TV deal at the start (and may be a part of getting the next one), saying he's the most negative influence is frankly ridiculous hyperbole. 

Not to speak for Embro, but I think he was referring to Jericho's negative influence in regards to terrible angles and matches.

[Embrodak]

2 hours ago, strobogo said:

Not to speak for Embro, but I think he was referring to Jericho's negative influence in regards to terrible angles and matches.

Not just that, but passing on his 2009 Monday Night Raw-ass “instincts” to the younger generation and blockading about the genius of it to reporters.

[Coffey]

Is Jericho even a big enough name that TV people would recognize him? That's surprising to me. It's not like he's at Austin or Rock levels. Jericho is a big reason they got onto TNT? That's insane.

[sek69]

He's not a Rock or Austin, but he's been around long enough at or near the top that if anyone at WB had a casual knowledge of wrestling they'd recognize him. 

IIRC him and JR were what convinced the suits that it wasn't just a group full of people who have never done this before. 

[NintendoLogic]

Jericho was a featured star during wrestling's last period of mainstream popularity, so it stands to reason that plenty of folks outside the wrestling bubble would have at least heard of him. Recall the famous story of how the AWA beat out Mid-South for a deal with ESPN because Sgt. Slaughter was the only guy from either company TV execs knew.

[MoS]

I get what @Embrodak  is trying to say, but I will push back against Punk's 2011 run being an all-time run. It *could* have been an all-time run, but sadly, it was not, and at that time, fans on the internet were talking about his title reign exactly like they've spoken about Hangman's reign: never the focus of the promotion, having matches lazily built to or that play second fiddle to shit storylines and sometimes literally the number one contenders' match to Punk's title, booking not doing the champ any favours, the champ's character losing all its complexities and losing a lot of support and momentum, etc. 

I guess 2012 Punk-Jericho would be 2022's Hangman-Cole. 

[Embrodak]

“You guys have the former host of Wipe-Out on your show? This we gotta program.”

[Embrodak]

Just now, MoS said:

I get what @Embrodak  is trying to say, but I will push back against Punk's 2011 run being an all-time run. It *could* have been an all-time run, but sadly, it was not, and at that time, fans on the internet were talking about his title reign exactly like they've spoken about Hangman's reign: never the focus of the promotion, having matches lazily built to or that play second fiddle to shit storylines and sometimes literally the number one contenders' match to Punk's title, booking not doing the champ any favours, the champ's character losing all its complexities and losing a lot of support and momentum, etc. 

I guess 2012 Punk-Jericho would be 2022's Hangman-Cole. 

I meant “hot” in the sense of over-ness with the audience. Page was hot around the time he actually won the title, but nowhere near where Punk was in 2011, especially when you factor in the relative intensity of fandom of the audiences they were working in front of. And that was also with Page being basically the main character, if not always the most prominently featured performer, of the show for several years, with the full weight and support of the company behind his storyline and eventual ascension. That’s not as impressive to me as guys like Punk and Bryan getting over with a multi-billion dollar behemoth working at cross purposes to them. Punk was never and has never been a John Cena-level draw, let alone a Rock-level draw, but the career he made for himself has been impressive nevertheless. It’s a shame that he’ll not have the influence he envisioned for himself, but with as much of a dick as he is, I have to imagine doing that scrum and then decking a Young Buck, and potentially getting paid millions of dollars to do nothing after having done it, was orgasmic in a way that was almost worth it to him.

[Coffey]

I remember when AEW first started & they were doing that press conference & Chris Jericho was there. To me, and I get I'm not the average wrestling fan, he felt washed. The big "oh shit" moment for AEW for me was at the end of the first PPV when Jon Moxley showed up. THAT felt like that big moment, not AEW getting Jericho.

[MoS]

28 minutes ago, Embrodak said:

It’s a shame that he’ll not have the influence he envisioned for himself, but with as much of a dick as he is, I have to imagine doing that scrum and then decking a Young Buck, and potentially getting paid millions of dollars to do nothing after having done it, was orgasmic in a way that was almost worth it to him.

As somebody who once saved and then spent his entire semester's spare money in early 2013 on getting a Punk t-shirt shipped to my part of India (WWE did not have deals with local Indian merchandise stakeholders back then, and shipping charges from the US would be about 5 times as expensive as the actual cost of the merchandise item), I agree with this. I just really really wish and hope things were different.

I know Punk acted in an extremely unprofessional way, and at least in my line of work (corp law firm), behaviour like his on that weekend is grounds for immediate termination of your contract. He absolutely fucked up. He was still the best thing in pro wrestling since August 2021 though, and I am going to miss him so much. I was just going through his weekly promos last weekend, and it is striking just *how* good he was. I wish very much that things had turned out differently. 

[MoS]

Also, FWIW, Meltz says that Tony Khan wanted to start a promotion when he found out that Omega, Jericho and Punk were available. The Punk thing did not work out, but Omega and Jericho, according to Meltz, were imperative in TK even deciding that this entire pro wrestling thing was worth the time and trouble. Of course, your mileage might vary as to how astute and on-point TK was. 

[Flyin' Brian]

We ran CM Punk off, but we’ve got Jeff Jarrett. Yee haw!

please hire Vince Russo next. 
 

WCW speed run indeed. 
 

This is fine. 

[Flyin' Brian]

Colt Cabana huh? Bet that will boost the ratings. Glad that Jericho and AEW can troll Punk while the company goes down in flames. That will teach Punk to have worn an abortion rights are human rights shirt on national tv. 

[Jmare007]

Goes down in flames? Come the fuck on

[The Man in Blak]

I wouldn’t say the company is “going down in flames”, but Colt Cabana coming out on Dynamite as the “former ROH champion” to challenge Jericho is basically a troll move that I would expect from WWE or late-era WCW.

[Ricky Jackson]

Maybe time for an avatar update FB

[The Man in Blak]

Oh, and last week’s live Rampage saw a 39% year-over-year drop in viewership from last year, with over 50% of a drop specifically in the 18-49 demo. Both episodes were competing with a World Series telecast, so no excuses.

We’ll see what doing this week’s Dynamite for the lulz does for Based Tony later this week, I guess.

[sek69]

So it looks like TK hired Jarrett to do what he was doing in WWE, arranging live events (on top of whatever on camera stuff he ends up doing). So if nothing else it appears Tony is starting to realize letting other people handle shit is a good thing. 

[Matt D]

5 hours ago, sek69 said:

So it looks like TK hired Jarrett to do what he was doing in WWE, arranging live events (on top of whatever on camera stuff he ends up doing). So if nothing else it appears Tony is starting to realize letting other people handle shit is a good thing. 

It's sort of been the story of the year. There were HR issues stemming from people like Janela and Swole leaving so he boosted the HR team. There were locker room leadership issues so he extended Moxley and Jericho and gave them bigger roles. Now there are live gate issues and scheduling issues where they're going to the same towns too often so he brought in Jarrett. 

[El-P]

I just hope we get a new show called Global Force Elite or something.

Jarrett is a good catch. Talk about a smart guy who can teach the youngsters some old-school tricks all the while having the ability to actually listen and learn from them too (in his podcast you can see how smart and open-minded he is about some stuff, and people can shit on TNA all they want, they had the X-division which was the pro-wrestling of the future and they featured serious women wrestling 8 years before WWE's "revolution"). I'm not sure how instrumental he was in WWE getting better house-show business (the product getter hotter probably had quite a bit to do), but he's certainly not a bad guy to have as an office role. And he can be a fun on-air character too, as showed by his latest stuff in GCW.

And yep, TK getting more people with experience to assist him is a good thing. Hopefully it pays off in the long run.

[MoS]