WrestleMania 39

[KawadaSmile]

7 hours ago, DMJ said:

Bron Breakker is champion of the minor league and is completely unknown outside of that portion of the audience. 

Bron just got dethroned (and Melo IS another dude who has an absurd amount of upside) and was featured on RAW at least once, if memory serves. Not a total stranger, but he would need to be properly built.

[Microstatistics]

On 4/3/2023 at 12:48 PM, WingedEagle said:

Is Roman/Cody the most shocking result since Brock/Taker?  What else is even in the discussion before or after that?

I think since Brock/Roman II. Months of Lesnar dominating and beating everyone with one F5 in anticipation of Reigns being the one to vanquish him. He kicked out of an absurd 4-5 F5s and you thought this is it but Lesnar still bizarrely retained. The scenario feels similar to the current situation because Roman eventually won at Summerslam but it just wasn't the same since they missed the boat that mattered. 

The Okada beating Naito at WK12 pick that was mentioned is another good one.

[The Man in Blak]

4 hours ago, Zoo Enthusiast said:

The IC match is undoubtedly one of the GOAT Mania matches, in my opinion.  I'm not as high on Rhea/Charlotte but it was a good match.

Yeah, same. In my book, you’d have to go back twenty years or so to find a three way match from any company that’s comparable to the WM39 IC match. It was brutal for Bianca and Asuka (who had a decent match!) to have to follow that.

[ButchReedMark]

After Rick Steiner blotting Bron Breakkers copy book at Wrestlecon I reckon Bron has a good wait until he is called up.

[MoS]

On 4/4/2023 at 3:16 AM, KawadaSmile said:

How does Roman beating Cody compare to Austin getting help from Vince and shaking his hand after he beat The Rock at X7?

Ironically, while the Austin heel turn destroyed WWF's business and still remains the worst booking decision in the promotion's history, the live crowd on the night didn't mind it at all. Unlike Roman-Cody, the crowd wasn't deflated and depressed. But that's due to extenuating circumstances- they were in Houston, Austin's home state, and literally all the fans cared about was seeing their hero win the world title. 

Don't get me wrong, WM 17 was definitely the worse decision by a huge margin. I highly doubt this year's finish will destroy WWE's business like Austin's heel turn did, but Rock was a massive heel that night. He didn't work heel the way he switched mid-way in the WM 18 Hogan match cuz obviously, Austin was going to turn heel at the end of the night, but the live crowd was fine with Austin aligning with Vince as long as he won the title. 

Austin v. Rock always worked best when Austin was face and Rock was heel. Or when both were faces I guess, but the fans would choose for Austin to cheer more than they would The Rock anyway. There was something off and weird about heel Austin v. face Rock. I remember in late 2001, they had an MSG house show with face Rock v. heel Austin as the main event, and it sold a pathetic 7k tickets. Austin v. Rock. Selling only 7k tickets. At Madison Square Garden. It's unimaginable and yet it happened. 

[El-P]

I don't expect the same kinda collapse, especially since there's no such highs to collapse from, but when I stated before the fact this show had a very WM17 feel to it, I did not know how right I was.

[KawadaSmile]

1 hour ago, El-P said:

I don't expect the same kinda collapse, especially since there's no such highs to collapse from, but when I stated before the fact this show had a very WM17 feel to it, I did not know how right I was.

Financially? They are on a pretty damn good money making run. WM39's gate alone was 21 million dollars, and past events, like their last MSG show, also saw financial success. They could 100% take a bump there if they are not careful.

[El-P]

21 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Financially? 

Creatively. And therefore, yes, in ratings and such.

Financially they are idiot proof and have been for a long while now. Blood money on its own is enough to carry them for seemingly years and years. When you add the TV fees and Peacock overpaying, they could book Disco Inferno as WWE champ it would not hurt their money for years. The fact they are basically run by a giant sports agency now (sports agents are some of the worst parasite of society this side of business lawyers, insurance sellers and happiness managers), it will only get stronger.

[MoS]

1 hour ago, El-P said:

(sports agents are some of the worst parasite of society this side of business lawyers, insurance sellers and happiness managers), it will only get stronger.

HEY!!! 

(I mean, you're not wrong, but still)

[El-P]

12 minutes ago, MoS said:

HEY!!! 

(I mean, you're not wrong, but still)

(Ok, I admit it, I kinda put it there knowingly it would trigger you)

#NotAllBusinessLawyers

[Alucard]

On 4/3/2023 at 3:42 PM, The Man in Blak said:

The other thing to call out separate from the decision itself is the actual finish - having Solo somehow sneak back in and cost Cody the title would have been a bullshit overbooked finish for a B-Tier supercard main event, but to do it for Wrestlemania? Really? 

Agreed 100%. They literally replayed the exact finish from Clash at the Castle. It worked then because at least Solo's debut was a surprise. This sucked.

On 4/3/2023 at 3:51 PM, The Man in Blak said:

but I feel like there's also a chance that this ends up being a mirror universe version of Starrcade '97, where the finish was so bad that it ends up poisoning everybody involved. Regardless of who wins it now, the wrestler that beats Roman is going to have to fight through some resentment from the fans that they got the spot instead of Cody or Sami.

Starrcade 97 was one of my first thoughts as well. Completely missing/killing the moment.

On 4/4/2023 at 11:22 AM, DMJ said:

This was a Luger-in-93'-level loss or, if you're a more recent fan, Booker T jobbing to Triple H at WrestleMania or, even more recently, the losses suffered by Drew McIntyre and Sami Zayn. Cody Rhodes losing put him at that same level that McIntyre, Kevin Owens, Zayn, Lashley, and Rollins and others are, which is a step below Roman. Its not a bad spot to be in. Its higher up than I think fans ever expected Cody to get when he left the WWE. But what's irritating is that they have multiple guys in that spot and when they have the opportunity to pull the trigger on moving a guy up to that highest level (even just for a little while) and that guy checks so many of the boxes that the company seems to value most, its almost frustrating to watch them just create another Sheamus. 

As for Bron Breaker, Jay White, or GUNTHER being the ones to end this reign, I don't see it. 

And agreed as well. Took the one guy that was the freshest, he was unbeaten since the return, had all that momentum and chose to make him just another challenger. Can't just let a babyface be a badass that beats the bad guys and strike while the iron is hot.  Very much feels to me like if Cena/Batista lost to JBL/HHH at 21, and of course 93 Luger as someone who was never able to reach that high again. 

[Timbo Slice]

Comparing Cody now to Sting in ‘97 is quite a stretch. The amount Sting was over leading up to that match was absolutely staggering. Cody was over, but not nearly as much. 

[The Man in Blak]

The Starrcade ‘97 comparison isn’t that Cody is Sting (or that Roman is nWo Hogan) as much as the match being a marquee main event anticipated for months that was marred by a screwy finish. The nWo had run for around 17-18 months (July ‘96 to December ‘97) at the time of Starrcade; the Bloodline has run for over 20 months (July ‘21 to now).

[Dale Wolfe]

The right way to do the swerve would have been Bloodline interference costing Riman the belt 

[KawadaSmile]

I think it differs a bit from Starrcade. Sting WON and looked like a goober, whole "fast count" and all.

Cody not winning is 100% the wrong call  but they did what they were set out to do. Starrcade's infamy goes a bit deeper.