SUMMERSLAM 2023

[El McKell]

8 hours ago, sek69 said:

Couldn't have happened to a nicer sex pest

I dunno if 'sex pest' is the word I'd use for someone who threw a bunch of punches into the thighs of someone he had some kinda friends with benefits situation with.

[El McKell]

After really enjoying the MITB main event, my god was the Roman-Jey match on this show really really bad

[KawadaSmile]

I don't even think it was bad, but the crowd was noticeably tired. They wanted to react to most things, and even did, but the event going that long was rough. With a fresher crowd (and a quicker pace) things would be 1000% better.

 

A stacked card in which nothing really was as good as it should or could've been.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I had a blast being there live.  The Rhonda/Shayna match was disappointing.  I didn’t *hate* the main, but definitely expected more of a violent and faster paced match rather than locking up and grabbing a headlock.

There was nothing else that really missed for me, even people who I didn’t like.

[The Man in Blak]

11 hours ago, El Boricua said:

It peaked a few months ago, late spring and summer should have been the ending coda.

[El Boricua]

1 minute ago, The Man in Blak said:

It's Heyman, so it's self serving 'put my genius over' bs in terms of the 3rd inning wait til you see what happens next stuff. 

[Dale Wolfe]

Weirdly i am beginning to feel like a build towards a traditional Survivor Series 4x4 or even 5x5 with all participants could actually save it but that means the culmination becomes the Rumble or perhaps whatever it is in December 

[sek69]

I'm surprised they haven't done the "Jey calls for reinforcements" thing yet since everyone knows the family runs deep. 

[KawadaSmile]

3 hours ago, Dale Wolfe said:

Weirdly i am beginning to feel like a build towards a traditional Survivor Series 4x4 or even 5x5 with all participants could actually save it but that means the culmination becomes the Rumble or perhaps whatever it is in December 

My only issue is: who would be Team Roman? Him, Solo, Jimmy and 2/3 of Imperium? Face Team is Jey, SamiKO, Cody and ???

 

[DMJ]

- Not a bad show, but Money in the Bank was arguably the best top-to-bottom main roster show (especially if you dug the main event) that the company has put on in close to a decade or more.

- I don't watch the weekly TV, but was it always going to be an "MMA Rules" match between Shayna and Ronda? If so...bad idea. Shayna and Ronda are good enough at pro-wrestling that, with the right agent/producer, I believe they could've worked a good pro-wrestling match with elements of MMA. This almost felt like a match designed to show that MMA isn't as entertaining as pro-wrestling, but who even cares about that decades-old debate in 2023 because this was fake MMA on a pro-wrestling show and, ultimately, it just made me think "This match isn't good and this show isn't good and if this is what the WWE came up with and thought would be good, I'm not interested." I have a strong suspicion that Vince or HHH or someone got very bored or disinterested in protecting Ronda and that resulted in her no longer getting the benefit of having her matches properly produced/agented (?). Because that first run, when she was considerably greener, the matches were laid out much better. There's a story there for sure.

- Seth/Finn needed to be worked 25% slower because some of the best and coolest callbacks were rushed through, but they definitely had the crowd into it by the end. 

- Roman/Jey needed to be worked 25% faster because some of the best and coolest moments were separated by 5-6 minutes of Jey or Roman just standing around. I tend to like Roman's matches, even as others have pointed out how grueling they can be, but this match was a misfire. I think there were multiple issues at play.

First, it was always going to strain credulity to believe that a lifetime tag specialist like Jey Uso was going to defeat the most dominant World Champion in 30 years even if it was conceivable in non-kayfabe terms that Roman would want to drop the title to him. That wasn't necessarily true of the matches against Drew (at Clash), Sami (in Montreal), and, most importantly, Cody Rhodes, at WrestleMania, where it seemed like there was at least some chance of Roman dropping 1 or both titles (back when there was still vagueness around whether his titles would be unified).

Second, as I wrote earlier, I tend to like the "Roman formula" more than others even if it has become a formula. He beats down an opponent early, he walks around and trash talks, he gets cocky and the babyface makes a comeback only to get trounced through interference. But in this instance, that wasn't the story to tell. Jey Uso isn't bad fighting from underneath, but he's not the seller that Sami or Cody are. His gifts are his agility and speedy offense and unmatched ability to build a string of false finishes, a mix of things that helped make the Usos the best WWE tag team ever. At their best, they would work a methodical opening stretch before basically letting loose with a fireworks display. That's the sort of match that Jey excels at and that would've woken up the crowd. Seeing Jey work "Roman's match" was lackluster. Plus, even from a kayfabe perspective, Jey should know Roman's formula and style/pace better than anyone and should've had a much clearer game-plan. He was made to look like any other challenger instead of bringing anything new to the table.

Third, Solo Sikoa and the No DQ/No CO stipulation. Again, not having a plan to counteract Solo when you're in a No DQ/No CO match against Roman, who you have personally helped by interfering in nearly every one of his title defenses, makes Jey look like a total idiot. And because the audience has seen so many screwy finishes with Roman, it also made making the match basically a 2-on-1 beatdown for the majority of its final third thoroughly deflating. I get that Jey can no longer rely on the backup of Sami or KO or any other babyface, that he burned too many bridges to still have any friends, and I get that the reason Roman didn't just have his cousins come in and bum rush Jey from the first minute  is because Roman wanted to inflict the punishment himself and show his dominance but...man, just feels like one too many holes in the story of this match.

A big disappointment when, even if Roman was leaving with the title, they could've at least offered something fresh. 

[KawadaSmile]

Maybe they'll start building towards Roman vs Solo. Lord knows how that dynamic is gonna play out.

[SirEdger]

4 hours ago, DMJ said:

- Not a bad show, but Money in the Bank was arguably the best top-to-bottom main roster show (especially if you dug the main event) that the company has put on in close to a decade or more.

- I don't watch the weekly TV, but was it always going to be an "MMA Rules" match between Shayna and Ronda? If so...bad idea. Shayna and Ronda are good enough at pro-wrestling that, with the right agent/producer, I believe they could've worked a good pro-wrestling match with elements of MMA. This almost felt like a match designed to show that MMA isn't as entertaining as pro-wrestling, but who even cares about that decades-old debate in 2023 because this was fake MMA on a pro-wrestling show and, ultimately, it just made me think "This match isn't good and this show isn't good and if this is what the WWE came up with and thought would be good, I'm not interested." I have a strong suspicion that Vince or HHH or someone got very bored or disinterested in protecting Ronda and that resulted in her no longer getting the benefit of having her matches properly produced/agented (?). Because that first run, when she was considerably greener, the matches were laid out much better. There's a story there for sure.

- Seth/Finn needed to be worked 25% slower because some of the best and coolest callbacks were rushed through, but they definitely had the crowd into it by the end. 

- Roman/Jey needed to be worked 25% faster because some of the best and coolest moments were separated by 5-6 minutes of Jey or Roman just standing around. I tend to like Roman's matches, even as others have pointed out how grueling they can be, but this match was a misfire. I think there were multiple issues at play.

First, it was always going to strain credulity to believe that a lifetime tag specialist like Jey Uso was going to defeat the most dominant World Champion in 30 years even if it was conceivable in non-kayfabe terms that Roman would want to drop the title to him. That wasn't necessarily true of the matches against Drew (at Clash), Sami (in Montreal), and, most importantly, Cody Rhodes, at WrestleMania, where it seemed like there was at least some chance of Roman dropping 1 or both titles (back when there was still vagueness around whether his titles would be unified).

Second, as I wrote earlier, I tend to like the "Roman formula" more than others even if it has become a formula. He beats down an opponent early, he walks around and trash talks, he gets cocky and the babyface makes a comeback only to get trounced through interference. But in this instance, that wasn't the story to tell. Jey Uso isn't bad fighting from underneath, but he's not the seller that Sami or Cody are. His gifts are his agility and speedy offense and unmatched ability to build a string of false finishes, a mix of things that helped make the Usos the best WWE tag team ever. At their best, they would work a methodical opening stretch before basically letting loose with a fireworks display. That's the sort of match that Jey excels at and that would've woken up the crowd. Seeing Jey work "Roman's match" was lackluster. Plus, even from a kayfabe perspective, Jey should know Roman's formula and style/pace better than anyone and should've had a much clearer game-plan. He was made to look like any other challenger instead of bringing anything new to the table.

Third, Solo Sikoa and the No DQ/No CO stipulation. Again, not having a plan to counteract Solo when you're in a No DQ/No CO match against Roman, who you have personally helped by interfering in nearly every one of his title defenses, makes Jey look like a total idiot. And because the audience has seen so many screwy finishes with Roman, it also made making the match basically a 2-on-1 beatdown for the majority of its final third thoroughly deflating. I get that Jey can no longer rely on the backup of Sami or KO or any other babyface, that he burned too many bridges to still have any friends, and I get that the reason Roman didn't just have his cousins come in and bum rush Jey from the first minute  is because Roman wanted to inflict the punishment himself and show his dominance but...man, just feels like one too many holes in the story of this match.

A big disappointment when, even if Roman was leaving with the title, they could've at least offered something fresh. 

From a kayfabe standpoint, the argument could be made that Jey's plan could've been Jimmy and he didn't expect Jimmy to betray him the way he did. 

[DMJ]

2 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

From a kayfabe standpoint, the argument could be made that Jey's plan could've been Jimmy and he didn't expect Jimmy to betray him the way he did. 

Yeah, I can see that - but I wish they would've had the announcers actually ask "Where's Jimmy?" instead of saying that he was sidelined from getting put through a table the previous night. I mean, by this point of SummerSlam, we'd seen multiple guys and gals take horrific bumps, weapon shots, and even put through tables and were back on their feet, competing and *winning* within minutes. 

If they wanted Jimmy to be attacked before the show to explain why he wasn't running out, fine, but do it in a backstage segment and have him taken out in an ambulance. Or they could make Jimmy not saving Jey from an endless 2-on-1 beatdown a question that Corey and Cole wondered aloud.

I know looking for consistent logic in wrestling is a fool's errand, but the SummerSlam main event booking had less logic than usual and the match itself was nothing special, a formulaic Roman match and a lesser one at that.

[strobogo]

A big deep family rivalry really needs more violence than kendo sticks and clean table bumps. Never seen a family fight not be the most dirty shit. Not 40 minutes of open hand uppercuts.

[KawadaSmile]

What's funny is that the first two matches were exactly that, and the stakes were lower.

Shit, Roman catching Jey in a guillotine to counter a spear would've been a better finish.

[NintendoLogic]

The Bloodline storyline is in the late-period nWo phase where they're well past the point where it should have ended organically but they feel the need to keep it going with new twists and turns because they're afraid to fuck with the formula.