Autistic Dragon Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 Every time I hear about Herb Abrams' UWF I can't escape the idea it had the potential. Abrams himself had a stellar track record as a businessman before starting the company. They had rather considerable funds on hand -Abrams had 2 million that he expected to last 5 years. They were on a nationwide channel, Sportschannel America, which was covering production cost for them and they had genuinely recognizable stars from the 80s i.e Paul Orndorf and Steve "Dr Death" Williams. Sadly Abrams' personal issues got in the way but his version of the UWF stands out to me as a true "what if?" of pro wrestling. My question to you reader is, if you were in Abrams' position, what would you have done? With the same TV deal, same finances and same personal how would you have handled the UWF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 I would have stripped down until I was wearing nothing but cowboy boots, covered myself in baby oil, done a huge pile of coke with a bunch of hookers, and then started smashing shit with a baseball bat until my heart blew up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autistic Dragon Posted February 13 Author Report Share Posted February 13 *Deep Breath* I wasn't expecting much but I at least hoped the first response would be serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 27 minutes ago, Autistic Dragon said: I at least hoped the first response would be serious. I like to think brother @The Thread Killer was serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 45 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said: I would have stripped down until I was wearing nothing but cowboy boots, covered myself in baby oil, done a huge pile of coke with a bunch of hookers, and then started smashing shit with a baseball bat until my heart blew up. Its either this or less coke and invest that cash in low expense funds before blowing another nickel on this carny nonsense and inevitably find yourself back on a path of coke and whores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 15 minutes ago, Dav'oh said: I like to think brother @The Thread Killer was serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 Even if Herb had eschewed the baby oil, hookers, and blow I don't think there was much chance of his UWF succeeding. I suppose their best possible outcome would have been that era's TNA: low cost content for a TV channel and a place for people to go who left WCW/WWF to decompress and get some work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Badger Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 This has been pretty damn funny iirc Herb didn't really have a booker and the whole thing seemed like he didn't understand even the basics of how to run a promotion. If I was in his cowboy boots, I'd have spent money getting someone with a proven mind for the wrestling business, how to book shows etc. And not so much on in ring talent that was going to leave after a show or two. And to that effect he/I would try to develop some more up and coming guys to base the booking like Cactus. I'm sure other young guys that would make the backbone of ECW were available? Then bring in a big name or two per show for a tag main event. Also not sure California was a good place to start. Seems he did pretty well going out East iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Jack Punk Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 The biggest thing he needed to do was develop a business plan and figure what he was trying to accomplish. It was ran like your basic wrestling TV show of the time but what purpose did it serve? It wasn't used to promote house shows and it wasn't building towards regular events or pay per views. Then the other big thing as mentioned that was needed was a legitimate booker. It was well established there was no reason to watch the shows because every show was going to be repetitive squash matches topped off with a main event that would NEVER have a clean finish....even the cage match between Orndorff and Dr Death ended in a DQ due to interference. I wanted to like it as a kid but it was just......terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 The points being made in the last two posts have really hit the nail on the head. Herb needed someone other than Herb in control, and the show needed a point. Gene and I watched the first twelve weeks of the Fury Hour and did a podcast on it, and that was one of the biggest things that stood out to us. They had terrible squash match after terrible squash match, and these main events with the stupidest finishes imaginable to protect everyone involved, and all of it was building to absolutely nothing. They weren't trying to get people to house shows, they weren't trying to sell a pay per view. It was just Herb aping what he had seen on other wrestling television shows, and the talent taking advantage of him. If I remember correctly Brian Blair even talks in his book about when people tried to help him with good ideas and constructive criticism, instead of just stuff to get themselves over, he wasn't really interested in hearing it. Herb was just going to do what Herb was going to do. Answering your proposed question is a hard one. Looking back on it from the perspective we have now, the right idea with no house shows and no pay per views to sell, would be to do something that was hardly done at the time and give the viewers clean finishes and matches between big stars on television. Something that really wouldn't be done for a few more years until it became the norm when ECW started doing it and the Monday Night Wars followed suit. But, as I said, that is easy to say from our perspective now. Back then, that was unheard of. So what do you do to differentiate yourself in that landscape? I think pushing the younger, more athletic guys is an option. Treating it more like a sport is always a nice thing to do. I think simply not making the finishes to the main events so fucking stupid, and cutting down on the sheer number of squashes per hour would have been a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmo Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 Yeah this is pretty much it. Probably the logical thing was hook on with either Cornette or Heyman and do either Smokey Mountain or ECW at a slightly higher level. Pick a region to focus on and slowly spread out from there if the show gets traction sports channel. Also create a local package for areas where sports channel doesn’t reach. Even then in the early 90s it’s probably not going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDuke Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 I might try hiring whatever British wrestlers were still around and in good wrestling shape and try running the company with World of Sport style match rules with the rounds system and British psychology. Like, I would hire whoever would have been the contemporaries of Regal and Finlay that weren't hired somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 Maybe we have an alternate universe where Herb Abrams sees what UWF Japan is doing and decides "hey, I already have Steve Williams on my roster, maybe I should try this shoot-style thing and build around him." Just get a young Ken Shamrock and Gary Albright and away you go.... I often wonder what would have happened if US wrestling had taken a similar route down the shoot-style path, especially before the ascent of UFC. IIRC, the first few English UWFi PPVs sold in the US did fairly well (this was several months before the first UFC event), and Lou Thesz even talked about running UWFi house shows in the US at one point. I think the opportunity was there since wrestling fans weren't exposed to MMA yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, Control21 said: the first few English UWFi PPVs sold in the US did fairly well 0.48 buyrate, or about 100,000 buys, for their debut show in 1993. Fall Brawl did 95,000 buys for context. There seems to have been two other PPVs, but they allegedly flopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autistic Dragon Posted February 14 Author Report Share Posted February 14 5 minutes ago, Dav'oh said: 0.48 buyrate, or about 100,000 buys, for their debut show in 1993. Fall Brawl did 95,000 buys for context. There seems to have been two other PPVs, but they allegedly flopped. Now to be fair, 93 Fall Brawl is considered one of the worst in the events series. Or maybe that's just the Wargames match. Still, for a foreign promotion to outsell one of the two leading American promotions, especially one of their major shows, is undeniably impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 17 minutes ago, Dav'oh said: 0.48 buyrate, or about 100,000 buys, for their debut show in 1993. Fall Brawl did 95,000 buys for context. There seems to have been two other PPVs, but they allegedly flopped. I think the last two came after the UFC debut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 On 2/12/2024 at 9:34 PM, Dav'oh said: I like to think brother @The Thread Killer was serious. Knowing TTK as I do, I'd wager 70% serious, on the downside. To answer the main question, I'd invest in a good booker, first and foremost. He had the production and the talent pool, but he didn't have the mind that others did. He wanted to be the star, and while I think he definitely had a certain kind of charisma that would've attracted attention? He had no business running a wrestling program with the ideas he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autistic Dragon Posted February 18 Author Report Share Posted February 18 Here's something else to think about. The UWF was originally based out of Reseda California which stands out as an odd choice compared to the markets they'd run later. Where would you have had the first UWF events take place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 I guess it depends on which markets were hot around that time. Personally, I think the Great Lakes area could've been a good starting spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 BTW, here's a ridiculously detailed vid on the Abrams UWF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wydGy_XA5c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autistic Dragon Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, JRH said: BTW, here's a ridiculously detailed vid on the Abrams UWF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wydGy_XA5c Already watched and highly recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 On 2/13/2024 at 11:29 AM, Blehschmidt said: Something that really wouldn't be done for a few more years until it became the norm when ECW started doing it and the Monday Night Wars followed suit. Every commercial break on ECW TV had a promotion for the next big show at the ECW arena, so they very much were building for the next house show. They definitely were pioneering the idea of not having a show full of squashes for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autistic Dragon Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 On 2/17/2024 at 11:02 PM, SirEdger said: I guess it depends on which markets were hot around that time. Personally, I think the Great Lakes area could've been a good starting spot. Any particular reason the Great Lakes area stands out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Not really other that to my remembrance, there was no major promotion really established there. Could've been an interesting starting spot for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 On 2/20/2024 at 4:41 PM, sek69 said: Every commercial break on ECW TV had a promotion for the next big show at the ECW arena, so they very much were building for the next house show. They definitely were pioneering the idea of not having a show full of squashes for sure. World Class kind of had the same format. They would run a big show and then show the matches over the next couple weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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