WWE TV Megathread

[DMJ]

I would have to think somebody at the top is wise enough to know that Theory would be an unforced error in booking, but who knows, at this point, I don't think there's anyone even trying to produce quality programming from a critical standpoint. And, even if the most likely scenario is that they essentially "burn" Theory - making him a lifetime midcarder at best - they have a pipeline of better, younger talent anyway. They can throw him out there, let him flop, forget it ever happened, and the only career they've ruined is his. 

But if they were going to have it be him, why not just do the reveal at War Games? The longer they build the angle, the more of a letdown it will be. Everyone predicting it is Theory (so, there's no "shock") and Theory isn't remotely over enough to make it work as a "Its cool that he's getting this push" thing. Say what one will about Ken Anderson/Kennedy, but there was at least a little groundswell of fans who thought him being Vince's illegitimate son would've made for good TV. I'm not a mega-fan of his, but even I thought it had potential just based on the promos/charisma factor (and, let's be real, that era of WWE wasn't at all about great in-ring product anyway).

So...if Theory is made to be the guy, is this just essentially a sacrifice fly so that they can add another "henchman" to The Vision while they put all the real eggs in the Bron basket?

[Jmare007]

I've seen a couple of Cena internviews this past week and I'm legit dumbfounded that he went to WWE with a whole ass chart with ideas and pitches for 200+ dates for his last year with the company and they basically told him "keep it, we good". 

And then they turned him heel out of nowhere as a pivot from Cody saying no to Rock's idea and got into an angle that lead nowhere and was pivoted again to turn him back.

WWE is beyond lucky that Cena is such a company guy. Any other top guy would've forced his ideas or just leave (and a couple would've legit worked AEW just out of spite, lmao).

[sek69]

Apparently Theory is a guy Heyman sees something in, and he was supposed to be in the War Games match until Jacob got hurt and they reshuffled everyone.  I suppose Paul (either one) has a plan here, but it will be an uphill climb if they want Theory to be taken seriously. 

[Timbo Slice]

Theory is a dude who will do whatever the company wants and that has value to them. 
 

The Cena stuff is wild; absolutely looks like he wanted to have more input, then told the Crown Jewel story I assume as a way to piggyback the “not gonna stir up any drama” angle, but it really seems like they missed the boat with this from top to bottom. 

[DMJ]

12 hours ago, Timbo Slice said:

Theory is a dude who will do whatever the company wants and that has value to them. 

You're right in...theory (yuck), but I think his value, even as a yes-man, is diminished by the fact that there are dozens and dozens of other guys who are just as willing to do whatever the company wants. 

[El-P]

It's 2025 and Austin Theory is still supposed to be a thing ? 

😂

Oh boy.

[sek69]

Oba Femi doing a promo with Cody to open Smackdown? Hook it into my veins. They may have fumbled Cena's last run, but having the show with his last match be a spotlight for Oba/Je'Von/Leon/Sol is really sticking the landing. 

[El-P]

I saw that Aigle Blanc debuted at a AAA show (btw six months later, AAA already 100% is NXT Mexico, especially the major shows) and his name is... Elio LeFleur. So, Elio is quite ok. LeFLeur, complete with the capital F, well, let's say no one in France would be named LeFleur. It's 100% the idea of what an american promoteur would think a frenchman would be named 40 years ago. Well at least Meltzer will be able to say his name now.

[Blehschmidt]

I'm sure that the whole "creative" team was backstage pretending to smoke cigarettes and laughing in fake French accents when they come up with that.

[El-P]

1 hour ago, Blehschmidt said:

I'm sure that the whole "creative" team was backstage pretending to smoke cigarettes and laughing in fake French accents when they come up with that.

I mean, the stereotypical "French" accent in the US seems to be Inspecteur Clouseau. So yeah I can see that.

It will never not be hilarious to me the whole "La Resistance" deal during that anti-French period. Like, *everything* about it was wrong. 

Anywoo. Considering his style, Elio LaFleur (man) would have been much better off in AEW. As long as he's in AAA or NXT, he'll do well. Beyond that point... Same goes for the former Zozaya btw, who apparently got to keep his real name. Well, he's tall, so there's this, but his style was perfect for NJPW.

[El-P]

John Cena retiring is a huge deal in pro-wrestling history for sure, he's their last "mainstream" star (nobody IRL knows who the fuck Roman Reigns or Cody Rhodes are), but I could not care less, even putting aside all the political stuff WWE is involved in. Cena was the posterboy for everything I hated about post 2000 ultra-corporate WWE. The look, the childish promos, the dull-ass soft (lame) looking style. Hated everything about it. The infantilizing discourse online about how this was actually the right way to do pro-wrestling because the rest was lol movez (I still remember the dumbest whiny reactions when Cena faced AJ Styles years later and he did a code red and people were crying about it, holy hell) made it even worse.

He was the greatest at the worst, less organic, most patterned style ever (WWE post 00's main event style). Not so sure that's a great compliment. The pendulum effect had him from ridiculously underrated to ridiculously overrated. WWE's style during these years (before NXT became the hot thing basically and helped push WWE forward closer to the actual zeitgeist of actual great wrestling) was way behind its time, while the trendsetting was happening in ROH, TNA to some extent and then Japan again. Yeah, those millions Cena vs Orton matches surely were something to put you to sleep.

I also remember seeing some extracts of Total Divas and him at home looked like total rich-ass nutjob with godawful tastes. The later embarrassing political stuff like "I'm so sorry China, Taiwan is actually not a country" and awful takes about Vince post Janel Grant case were enough to dump him in the shitlist forever. 

Now that's he's gonna be gone (unless the Saudis give him enough money, because let's be real), what's next for WWE in term of nostalgia run ? 

Oh fuck me.

It's gonna be Lesnar, isn't it ?

Oh, man...

Anywoo. I enjoyed John Cena the most as a meme. As far as pro-wrestling goes, whatever. A 100 times better than Roman Reigns and his dreaded Bloodline-style main events though.

[Blehschmidt]

Nah, next up will be the Randy Orton "Chinlocks Forever" retirement tour.

[DMJ]

Haven't you heard? Chris Jericho is coming back. 

I haven't watched WWE in a few months now, though I've kept up online via reddit and here. I think the real test for whether I'm officially "done" with WWE will be the Rumble. It is very, very easy for me to skip B-level PPVs, to not watch any of the TV, and to even miss a show like tonight's. I've seen enough John Cena matches in my life to never see another one no matter the stakes or opponent. His matches with Cody were dogshit and, though I thought the Paul match was a fun "movez-fest" and I really like GUNTHER, I'm still just not motivated at all to watch. 

But the Rumble? The Rumble is maybe the one WWE event that I think might be harder for me to skip, especially as it is consistently the only show that I can get my wife and friends - none of whom are into wrestling - to get drunk and watch with me. PLUS, the show being in Riyadh (yuck) also means that I can actually play it in the background with the audio off and turn on some records without missing anything interesting.

In the past, when the Rumble has been somewhere like Philly or NY or Chicago, it's sometimes been fun hearing the "hardcore" fans boo this person or cheer that person or shit on the outcome. To go "off script," in a sense. Now that the shows are in Saudi Arabia, though, that sort of audience interaction is all but guaranteed not to happen. It's not a knock against those fans, it's just the nature of putting big shows in front of audiences that aren't made-up of a huge contingent of loud, often critical "smart" fans. 

[El-P]

21 minutes ago, DMJ said:

Haven't you heard? Chris Jericho is coming back. 

No idea when his contract is up, but if it is, there's a chance he would debut today. Which would be hilarious for many reasons. Don't think it is yet but who knows. And even better, who cares. The discourse is gonna be pure comedy anyway.

[JRH]

It's wild that Cena's entire push can be traced back to impersonating Vanilla Ice on a Smackdown Halloween skit.

[Timbo Slice]

Jericho isn’t a free agent until 2026, so he’ll be a Rumble surprise. 
 

Cena’s fine in ring; he was taught a shit style and up-kept it because of who told him to make it look a certain way, and his best attribute was that when in there with someone who knew how to work, he could at least hang. He wasn’t great, but he wasn’t made to look like a fool and was smart enough to play up the difference. 
 

He’s beholden to the company even when the storyline was shit, and the majority of his final year was shit. The interviews lately have been trying to rewrite things and gloss over terrible decisions, but the fact that Cena isn’t having his last match on a stadium show and that WWE couldn’t make an event around it is telling about how the company sees even the folks who helped prop it up for the terrible management there is now. He was the fucking lead draw on top for a decade-plus and his career ends on a Saturday Night Main Event. Literally leaving money on the table. Cena WAS a fucking singular talent. Making him like one of the UFC fighters that gets exploited at every turn is rich.
 

Tanahashi was a draw, but was not a Cena-level draw, and the decision was made to make sure his final match was at the Dome. And it’s the biggest crowd the company has had since BEFORE Tanahashi even started. The fact the company couldn’t even show Cena the same respect and he just went along with what the story was while he was undercut and shortchanged left and right, and THEN he did the media rounds biting his tongue while waxing poetic is as Cena as it gets. 

[strobogo]

Cena goes out to a bizarre almost trolly tap out (I'm sure the idea was gunslinger realizing this was his last moment and going out in peace but the execution was lol wtf), crowd chanting bullshit and you fucked up at HHH, HHH getting booed out of the building insisting on being on screen in all the post match stuff, even booed in 14 year old talking head footage. 

What a completely botched retirement run. Incredible, really. 

[Jmare007]

Haven't seen much of anything from this retirement tour but it really goes to show you how badly they botched it (and other angles) that the WWE fans went from almost taking pride in reacting the way you are "supposed to" because they loved the product from 2022-2024 to going all meta and reacting against the company and HHH instead of the heel for beating Cena. 

The fact it was Cena, the poster boy for fans reacting against the company because they didn't like the booking direction is fitting end, I guess?

[Stiva]

3 hours ago, strobogo said:

Cena goes out to a bizarre almost trolly tap out (I'm sure the idea was gunslinger realizing this was his last moment and going out in peace but the execution was lol wtf), crowd chanting bullshit and you fucked up at HHH, HHH getting booed out of the building insisting on being on screen in all the post match stuff, even booed in 14 year old talking head footage. 

What a completely botched retirement run. Incredible, really. 

Hunter is losing his touch. 15 years ago, he wouldn’t be seen dead associated with this Cena run, now he’s taking credit for shit booking. He’s fell off 

[Johnny Sorrow]

Off all the things to make that part of the crowd finally turn on HHH, it's the best finish they've done in forever, that was probably all Cena's idea, to end the best fucking match I've seen in a long time.

[sek69]

I didn't expect Cena to win his last match (nor should he have imo), but losing by tapout was just such a deflating move. He was facing Gunther, you're telling me you can't just have him powerbomb him to death or just beat the shit out of him so the old gladiator can go out on his shield? Having the "Never Give Up" guy just.....give up.... seems like a middle finger to what his whole character was built on for 20+ years. I have a feeling in the coming days there will be "reports" from WWE that the finish was all Cena's idea in order to deflect the heat from the company (read: HHH), which will be hilarious when it happens. 

[El-P]

8 hours ago, Timbo Slice said:

Jericho isn’t a free agent until 2026, so he’ll be a Rumble surprise. 

I mean, Jericho coming back to a Bloodmoney show is hysterical. Can't wait for the obligatory CM Punk feud. 

But let's be serious. Everybody knows Jericho is actually showing up at Genesis and winning the TNA title there, Hogan at Mania 9 style, to propel TNA as the real #2 promotion.

As far as that Cena retirement, the reports are quite funny to read indeed. The entire retirement road has been an incredible botch. Has there ever been such a terrible retirement road for such a major star (and yeah, I know the obvious answer is El Hijo del Santo, who retired exactly the same day and no one gives a flying fuck, cubsfan did a great article about that story) ? I can't think of one. I'm sure Adam Copeland is so sad by the career move he made now and that he'll retire in the company that had that Sting retirement... 

Knowing Levesque, he's gonna take that reaction well, obviously... 😎

[El-P]

8 hours ago, strobogo said:

Cena goes out to a bizarre almost trolly tap out (I'm sure the idea was gunslinger realizing this was his last moment and going out in peace but the execution was lol wtf)

I saw the clip. Holly shit, this product is such SHIT it's insane. The tap out with the zoom in on Cena doing that corny-ass smile was so fake and manufactured. It's the "Sorry I love you" syndrome. It's the "community theatre Roman Reigns Bloodline lines of dialogues galore" syndrome. And people go out there "OMG THIS IS ABSOLUTE CINEMA". Holy fuck. 😂

EDIT : well, Levesque got "A-E-W" and "Fuck the Saudis !" chants during the post-show. Wonder if he's gonna have to apologize for the later. 😂

EDIT 2 (because I don't wanna spam) : holy shit the clips are hilarious. Levesque and Stephy coming out to HEAT BOOS and "you fucked up" chants while CM Punk and Cody enter the ring to give him some retirement belts. This is *classic shit* here. Reports were funny as hell. Actual clips have me rolling.

[El-P]

John Cena saying his goodbyes to sports-entertainment.

By kissing... Riyadh Season.

I fucking can't.😂

This is indeed, absolute cinema.

[strobogo]

25 minutes ago, El-P said:

I saw the clip. Holly shit, this product is such SHIT it's insane. The tap out with the zoom in on Cena doing that corny-ass smile was so fake and manufactured. It's the "Sorry I love you" syndrome. It's the "community theatre Roman Reigns Bloodline lines of dialogues galore" syndrome. And people go out there "OMG THIS IS ABSOLUTE CINEMA". Holy fuck. 😂

(so apparently there were some "We want Vince !" chants during the post show ? If true, then it tells you anything you need to know about the WWE audience. Hell, they got pissed at Levesque for this finish, but not for bringing Lesnar back, so there)

EDIT : well, at the very least, Levesque got "A-E-W" and "Fuck the Saudis !" chants during the post-show. Wonder if he's gonna have to apologize for the later. 😂

EDIT 2 (because I don't wanna spam) : holy shit the clips are hilarious. Levesque and Stephy coming out to HEAT BOOS and "you fucked up" chants while CM Punk and Cody enter the ring to give him some retirement belts. This is *classic shit* here. Reports were funny as hell. Actual clips have me rolling.

Yeah there's no cinema stuff here. No one liked it. There are videos of Punk and Bayley in the crowd seeing the finish and having the same reaction as fans. Punk shoots HHH a look getting in the ring as well. On the post show, while HHH is gleefully trolling fans more, Big E is sitting there like "this mf is my boss?" while the other two stooges laugh along. 

To recap the retirement run:

Cena announces 6 months in advance that 2025 will be his last year. At interviews at the time, he makes it clear he will be doing a full, weekly schedule including house shows. Over 200 dates. The company says they only need him for 36.

Despite now 8 months of planning, the heel turn comes together very quickly, with Rock's idea being for Cody to turn. HHH wants Cena to turn, with the angle of a Cena/Travis Scott tag team sometime down the road. Rock washes his hands and is not involved the rest of the year. Travis Scott bails, leaving Cena's heel turn to just be a thing with no story or momentum behind it because there wasn't anything planned in advance for it.

Halfway through the year, they realize it isn't working, so he goes back to being a face the night before Summerslam with no angle other than "this isn't working, sorry". Somewhere along the line, he gets into a mini feud with R-Truth, also unplanned and there to throw a bone to fans (and talent) who were upset with the way they summarily got rid of Truth out of the blue.

About a month spent on Logan Paul.

Brock Lesnar comes back and squashes him with no angle, Brock then himself doesn't appear for two months and there's no mention of this event again.

A few weeks feud with The Judgement Day, swaps the IC title with Dom at his last PPV. Does not have even a promo the next 2 weeks for his final match.

SNME The Final Show. Cena does a normal entrance, gets dominated for most of the 15 minutes, taps out with a smile on his face. HHH leads the roster to ringside (he gets booed), stands on the apron while Cena is having his moment with Punk and Cody (he gets booed) so he can point to the video screens for the 90 second video with music they've already used for such packages and were using talking head clips from 2012 on. 

Cena then leaves without any kind of speech. On the post show, Cody rambles and cries for what seemed as long as Cena's match, Jey Uso was drunk and had to be told to get off screen, HHH continued to troll the crowd.