Kenta Kobashi is back from cancer

[smkelly]

Mark Henry is listed on the squat page at wiki, but his best squat was out done by a fellow American.

 

And some guy from the UK holds the World Record for a dead lift.

 

These guys are incredible. The most I've ever done (if memory serves correctly):

 

Bench - 400 pounds - I was a senior in High School

Military Press - 250 pounds - Senior

Squat (P) - 500 pounds - In Marine Corps.

Squat ( - 650 pounds - In Marine Corps.

Curl (Both hands) - 185 pounds - Senior

Single handed curl - 90 pounds - Senior

Leg Press - 1800 pounds - Marine Corps.

 

I'm no where near those levels anymore. But, I'm in far better physical shape (besides my time in the Corps.) now than when I was in high school.

[Bix]

The key to Henry's claim is that he has excelled at the top level of weightlifting, power lifting, AND strength athletics.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Weightlifting

 

* Olympic Games team member (1992, 1996)

* Pan American Games Silver Medalist (1995)

* Senior American record holder in Snatch, Clean and jerk, and Total (1993-1997)

* Senior National Championship (1993, 1994, 1996)

 

Powerlifting

 

* All time world raw (unequipped) squat world record holder (430 Kilograms)[9]

 

Strongman

 

* Arnold Classic Strongest Man (2002)

* First person to clean and press the inch dumbbell, 175 pounds plus, putting the bell overhead using only his right hand.

[Resident Evil]

Mark Henry is listed on the squat page at wiki, but his best squat was out done by a fellow American.

 

And some guy from the UK holds the World Record for a dead lift.

 

These guys are incredible. The most I've ever done (if memory serves correctly):

 

Bench - 400 pounds - I was a senior in High School

Military Press - 250 pounds - Senior

Squat (P) - 500 pounds - In Marine Corps.

Squat ( - 650 pounds - In Marine Corps.

Curl (Both hands) - 185 pounds - Senior

Single handed curl - 90 pounds - Senior

Leg Press - 1800 pounds - Marine Corps.

 

I'm no where near those levels anymore. But, I'm in far better physical shape (besides my time in the Corps.) now than when I was in high school.

Impressive.

[smkelly]

World Records

The heaviest Olympic full back squat as for powerlfiting done strictly 100 % raw of all time is logically estimated approximately around 390 Kgs. There is no definite lift or value - but as a rough guide it is said that Hossein Rezazadeh (worlds best weightlifter) is capable of this most likely.

 

There is no certain all time world records but the heaviest Squat of all time was done by Mike 'Mule' Miller (USA) of 553.4 Kg (1220 Lbs. This squat was assisted, however, he did not reach the correct depth…:

 

Andy Bolton (GBR) Squatted 550.5 Kg for an all time world record assisted. This lift was parallel but not certainly below.

 

Brent Mikesell performed a great lift assisted of 517.5 Kgs with a multi-ply squat super suit. This squat was below parellel.

 

The heaviest Squat said to have been done raw was 430.0 Kg done by Mark Henry of USA. henry is also have said to have broken a thick steel chain using just his bare hands on smackdown. However, non of these feats are certain.

 

Note this squat was not 100 % strictly raw (just without a squat/supersuit), and no evidence showing he even did this - [1]

 

Paul Edward Anderson USA has claimed a Squat lift of 1206 Lbs raw (547 Kg approx.) This lift is not certain, but is represented by good sources. If this is true, he is by far the best squat lifter of all time:

 

 

Note: as far as records go, they can also use many styles - however a true squat must always be below parallel.

 

 

Statistics and lifts

One arm overhead press: 380 Lbs (witnessed by reliable witness)

 

(Two arms) overhead (clean and press): 402.5 Lbs

 

Squat (Raw): 1,202 Lbs (Unmached even today by any orginisation - apparent lift - unknown ?)

 

Backlift (unknown: 6,270 Lbs) apparently ??????

 

Bench Press (Raw): 627 Lbs

- Paul E. Anderson

 

It's not exactly reliable, but if it's legit, it clearly puts Henry behind Anderson in overall strength.

[smkelly]

Mark Henry is listed on the squat page at wiki, but his best squat was out done by a fellow American.

 

And some guy from the UK holds the World Record for a dead lift.

 

These guys are incredible. The most I've ever done (if memory serves correctly):

 

Bench - 400 pounds - I was a senior in High School

Military Press - 250 pounds - Senior

Squat (P) - 500 pounds - In Marine Corps.

Squat ( - 650 pounds - In Marine Corps.

Curl (Both hands) - 185 pounds - Senior

Single handed curl - 90 pounds - Senior

Leg Press - 1800 pounds - Marine Corps.

 

I'm no where near those levels anymore. But, I'm in far better physical shape (besides my time in the Corps.) now than when I was in high school.

Impressive.

 

Thanks.

 

I'll admit, I did use some performance ehancing "drugs" while in high school, and in the Corps.

 

All was 100% legal.

[sek69]

I think it's pretty clear that Mark Henry is the strongest person ever involved in wrestling, that much we should all be able to agree on.

 

 

I remember reading in the WON when they started really testing for roids/HGH, Dave said something about how some people in the company expected Henry to shrink since they just assumed that someone who was that level of weightlifter had to be on some kind of shit. Then it turned out that he was one of the few guys in the company who stayed the same size after testing.

[Bix]

I'll admit, I did use some performance ehancing "drugs" while in high school, and in the Corps.

Please don't be one of those people who says steroids & HGH aren't drugs.

[smkelly]

Pssh. They're not drugs.....

 

I used weight gainer and creatine. I liked the weight gainer powder, made one hell of a shake.

[jdw]

I don't see how he can get the surgery if he's on a cocktail of shit. Did he detox or something?

Celebs who've been loaded have been geting surgery for years. Hell, normal people who have been taking painkillers for years get surgery all the time on the issues that are causing them to take the painkillers.

 

Trip, Benoit, Rey-Rey, Eddy... where does the list stop of people who got surgery in the middle of long stretches of taking shit?

 

 

John

[jdw]

I don't see how he can get the surgery if he's on a cocktail of shit. Did he detox or something?

I thought the period between when he initially went out and the period he got worked on was rather substantial?

 

The tumor was discovered June 29th and he had the operation July 6th.

 

I'm no doctor, but I worked in a hospital for four years. I spent a lot of time in the operating theatres. Administering anaesthetics to drug users is not easy.

 

It's easy. Happens all the time in hospitals all over the country, all over the world every day.

 

John

[sek69]

I have nothing to support this, (other than all the people who have been known/suspected users in all sports going to see him), but I've always kind of suspected Dr. Andrews is a mark doctor in the sense of someone who looks the other way in terms of what drug tests show.

 

I mean, just the fact that he's the go-to guy for WWE when it comes to top guys who need surgery makes me think there's some kind of deal where they send him business and he looks the other way when the routine blood work comes back looking like the test kitchen from BALCO.

[Al]

There is no blood test to detect HGH, and that's what most athletes are using these days. So even a hospital test would not pick it up. If it did, I imagine it would fall under some kind of confidentiality agreement. I mean honestly, what kind of competent doctor would run to the press with test results if they showed steroid use?

[Guest Spunk]

I think it's pretty clear that Mark Henry is the strongest person ever involved in wrestling, that much we should all be able to agree on.

 

 

I remember reading in the WON when they started really testing for roids/HGH, Dave said something about how some people in the company expected Henry to shrink since they just assumed that someone who was that level of weightlifter had to be on some kind of shit. Then it turned out that he was one of the few guys in the company who stayed the same size after testing.

I also think that there is a really good chance that if Henry was training full time for powerlifting there is a good chance there wouldn't be any room for debate here.

[tomk]

Note this squat was not 100 % strictly raw (just without a squat/supersuit),

Ok I don't know a ton about powerlifting. but isn't the definition of raw lift v assisted lift that the first is done without supersuit while second is with one.

 

So not " not 100% strictly raw (just without squat/supersuit)" means what?

 

He was wearing part of a shirt/supersuit?

The author doesn't want him clothed at all?

[Cox]

I have nothing to support this, (other than all the people who have been known/suspected users in all sports going to see him), but I've always kind of suspected Dr. Andrews is a mark doctor in the sense of someone who looks the other way in terms of what drug tests show.

 

I mean, just the fact that he's the go-to guy for WWE when it comes to top guys who need surgery makes me think there's some kind of deal where they send him business and he looks the other way when the routine blood work comes back looking like the test kitchen from BALCO.

Also worth noting - James Andrews is also one of the more popular baseball surgeons around, and lord knows we've found over the past several weeks that baseball players are far from a bastion of purity.

[Jingus]

A man, especially one who was prone to gaining body fat easily several years ago, does not naturally get to be in the most muscular shape of his life after kidney cancer, a nephrectomy, and turning 40. It just doesn't happen.

Between that and the Mark Henry talk, it sort of got me thinking about perception of how bodies look in wrestling. Like, there have been plenty of fat jokes made about Kobashi back when he grew a bit of a paunch. With him apparently being such a fanatic about training, obviously there was nothing he could do (naturally) to get rid of those few extra inches. But still, a lot of people gave him shit about it. Same thing with Mark Henry: despite being one of the most awesome natural athletes in wrestling history, I've seen and heard god knows how many jokes about him being hefty. Same thing with Samoa Joe now; clearly he's got all the cardio he needs, what with doing 60-minute matches and such, yet the endless Fatboy Joe comments just keep on rolling.

 

What caused this weird situation where a lot of fans don't take a wrestler seriously unless they've got a sparkling six-pack of roidapalooza abdominals? Is it just from the decades of WWE brainwashing that the real champions all look like Hogan?

[S.L.L.]

A man, especially one who was prone to gaining body fat easily several years ago, does not naturally get to be in the most muscular shape of his life after kidney cancer, a nephrectomy, and turning 40. It just doesn't happen.

Between that and the Mark Henry talk, it sort of got me thinking about perception of how bodies look in wrestling. Like, there have been plenty of fat jokes made about Kobashi back when he grew a bit of a paunch. With him apparently being such a fanatic about training, obviously there was nothing he could do (naturally) to get rid of those few extra inches. But still, a lot of people gave him shit about it. Same thing with Mark Henry: despite being one of the most awesome natural athletes in wrestling history, I've seen and heard god knows how many jokes about him being hefty. Same thing with Samoa Joe now; clearly he's got all the cardio he needs, what with doing 60-minute matches and such, yet the endless Fatboy Joe comments just keep on rolling.

 

What caused this weird situation where a lot of fans don't take a wrestler seriously unless they've got a sparkling six-pack of roidapalooza abdominals? Is it just from the decades of WWE brainwashing that the real champions all look like Hogan?

 

Honestly, it probably is...which, of course, is especially ironic considering the kind of people who bitch about Mark Henry being "fat" are usually the same dudes who complained about how Hogan ruined wrestling to some degree or another.

[Resident Evil]

A man, especially one who was prone to gaining body fat easily several years ago, does not naturally get to be in the most muscular shape of his life after kidney cancer, a nephrectomy, and turning 40. It just doesn't happen.

Between that and the Mark Henry talk, it sort of got me thinking about perception of how bodies look in wrestling. Like, there have been plenty of fat jokes made about Kobashi back when he grew a bit of a paunch. With him apparently being such a fanatic about training, obviously there was nothing he could do (naturally) to get rid of those few extra inches. But still, a lot of people gave him shit about it. Same thing with Mark Henry: despite being one of the most awesome natural athletes in wrestling history, I've seen and heard god knows how many jokes about him being hefty. Same thing with Samoa Joe now; clearly he's got all the cardio he needs, what with doing 60-minute matches and such, yet the endless Fatboy Joe comments just keep on rolling.

 

What caused this weird situation where a lot of fans don't take a wrestler seriously unless they've got a sparkling six-pack of roidapalooza abdominals? Is it just from the decades of WWE brainwashing that the real champions all look like Hogan?

 

Yes and no to the WWE brainwashing. We've seen time and time again what brainwashing can do for a fan audience. Just look at the current WWE. There's no doubt that the WWE's brainwashing of all real champions having to look like Hogan influences people.

 

However, with that being said there's a certain thing called believability. Believability is actually an extremely strong part of the makebelieve world of pro wrestling. Making the fans believe in what they're seeing. Wether it's through marketing, the wrestler themselves or other things it becomes a strong factor. The media is a strong force. Well built strong, more athletic people at first glance are thought to be more superior and thus more believable. Hercules is a mythological being. His believability or fandom would not be as strong if he didn't look like the "perfect" man. Steve Reeves wouldn't be allowed to play Hercules if he didn't look like a strong man. Comic books have every one built like the great strongman Franco Colombu. But it's aslo ingrained into people. Muscle allows you to do more stuff, jump higher, run faster etc be more athletic. People know this. So when someone apparantly looks like a superman they are a superman and thus taken more seriously. Believability.

 

But that doesn't explain Mark Henry. Henry is believable because of his strength and size. Do people actually not take him seriously because he doesn't have a six pack? I always thought it was because some people didn't like his wrestling style. Something I would disagree with because I enjoy watching Henry in the ring.

And for the record -- I'm directing this at various people out there -- Mark Henry is not fat. I always HATED that when people said that.

 

I once heard the Kobashi was fat statement before while watching a Kobashi match and I sternly disagreed. I went on about how much great shape he was in. Maybe some people just like trying to put people down or just like picture perfect physiques? I don't know. I don't want everyone to be superman or Franco Colombu. You need variety.

[Guest Spunk]

Yeah, I never got the whole Mark Henry is fat thing. While he is not a bodybuilder or anything, there is a difference between strength and just looking toned. Your average bodybuilder isn't training for strength, but just for appearance.

 

On Samoa Joe.. Yeah, he could probably lose some weight if he wanted to.

[sek69]

There is no blood test to detect HGH, and that's what most athletes are using these days. So even a hospital test would not pick it up. If it did, I imagine it would fall under some kind of confidentiality agreement. I mean honestly, what kind of competent doctor would run to the press with test results if they showed steroid use?

 

All of the wrestlers suspended for Wellness reasons as of late were using steroids that were popular in the 70s-80s and are very easily detected. I'm not saying doctors should run to the press after every blood test, but since steroids are illegal aren't they required to report that to authorities?

[tomk]

I even wrote the Apter mags to submit my own lists of Top-10 Best Conditioned Wrestlers and my Top-10 Worst Conditioned Wrestlers. Published in THE WRESTLER and PRO WRESTLING ILLUSTRATED in 1986, my Best list included Road Warrior Hawk (No.1), Kerry Von Erich and Rick Rude. Who would have thought back then that Dusty Rhodes, Abdullah the Butcher, One Man Gang and Kamala -- all featured on my Worst List -- would outlive Hawk, Kerry and Rude?

http://www.comics101.com/kentuckyfriedrass...&chapter=53

[Al]

There is no blood test to detect HGH, and that's what most athletes are using these days. So even a hospital test would not pick it up. If it did, I imagine it would fall under some kind of confidentiality agreement. I mean honestly, what kind of competent doctor would run to the press with test results if they showed steroid use?

 

All of the wrestlers suspended for Wellness reasons as of late were using steroids that were popular in the 70s-80s and are very easily detected. I'm not saying doctors should run to the press after every blood test, but since steroids are illegal aren't they required to report that to authorities?

 

I seriously doubt they are.

[Jingus]

However, with that being said there's a certain thing called believability. Believability is actually an extremely strong part of the makebelieve world of pro wrestling. Making the fans believe in what they're seeing. Wether it's through marketing, the wrestler themselves or other things it becomes a strong factor. The media is a strong force. Well built strong, more athletic people at first glance are thought to be more superior and thus more believable. Hercules is a mythological being. His believability or fandom would not be as strong if he didn't look like the "perfect" man. Steve Reeves wouldn't be allowed to play Hercules if he didn't look like a strong man. Comic books have every one built like the great strongman Franco Colombu. But it's aslo ingrained into people. Muscle allows you to do more stuff, jump higher, run faster etc be more athletic. People know this. So when someone apparantly looks like a superman they are a superman and thus taken more seriously. Believability.

But that definition of "believability" is built on a false hypothesis. Having large, well-defined muscles isn't necessarily a sign of being a great athlete; in fact, much of the time, it's the complete opposite.

 

Look at MMA, for example. Mirko Cro-Cop doesn't look physically intimidating at all. Neither did Kazushi Sakuraba, or any of the Gracies. But they sure as shit managed to beat a whole bunch of guys who were a lot bigger and more muscular than them.

 

Babe Ruth was the best player in the world when he was a fatass. Muhammed Ali was in good shape, but wasn't musclebound at all. Same thing with Michael Jordan.

 

The idea in wrestling that you don't "look like an athlete" unless you look like a bodybuilder is bullshit, plain and simple. Unfortunately, McMahon has infected so many people with his vision of what people should look like that it's become standard practice for wrestling fans to expect the workers to all look like the Terminator. And, with all the recent deaths and scandal, we've seen exactly what the downside to that sort of mentality is.

 

Now, Vince has also helped convince people that bigger guys are better fighters than smaller ones, but that's a whole 'nother argument.

[Loss]

There is no blood test to detect HGH, and that's what most athletes are using these days. So even a hospital test would not pick it up. If it did, I imagine it would fall under some kind of confidentiality agreement. I mean honestly, what kind of competent doctor would run to the press with test results if they showed steroid use?

 

All of the wrestlers suspended for Wellness reasons as of late were using steroids that were popular in the 70s-80s and are very easily detected. I'm not saying doctors should run to the press after every blood test, but since steroids are illegal aren't they required to report that to authorities?

 

Pretty sure that would be a violation of HIPAA.

[Resident Evil]

However, with that being said there's a certain thing called believability. Believability is actually an extremely strong part of the makebelieve world of pro wrestling. Making the fans believe in what they're seeing. Wether it's through marketing, the wrestler themselves or other things it becomes a strong factor. The media is a strong force. Well built strong, more athletic people at first glance are thought to be more superior and thus more believable. Hercules is a mythological being. His believability or fandom would not be as strong if he didn't look like the "perfect" man. Steve Reeves wouldn't be allowed to play Hercules if he didn't look like a strong man. Comic books have every one built like the great strongman Franco Colombu. But it's aslo ingrained into people. Muscle allows you to do more stuff, jump higher, run faster etc be more athletic. People know this. So when someone apparantly looks like a superman they are a superman and thus taken more seriously. Believability.

But that definition of "believability" is built on a false hypothesis. Having large, well-defined muscles isn't necessarily a sign of being a great athlete; in fact, much of the time, it's the complete opposite.

It depends on what you define large as. It gets complicated when you compare different people as everyone's different and what exactly you define an athlete as. For ex, not everyone can jump over a car like the unbelievable Wesley 2 Scoops Berry but he can't lift as much weight as a powerlifter his own size.(At least I don't think he can. Who ever knows with that superman????). There are all different physiques for atheletes out there. For ex, Bruce Lee was extrodinary strong and powerful per pound of bodweight and is someone who is built like a bodybuilder. Legendary bodybuilders envy his physique The reason he start building his muscle up because he didn't like how he was out of breath after a fight one time.

Than you have some bodybuilders who aren't as strong as perhaps they look.

Than you have bodybuilders like Mr. Olympia Franco Colombu and others who are as built as anyone and are as strong as anyone out there.

Weightlifters - Olympics -- tend to be stronger per pound of bodyweight than anyone else. This is because of their training style

Gymnastic people are great atheltes and have a very bodybuildish physique. However, it is different.

The legs of sprinters are legs that bodybuilders wish they could have.

 

Let me make myself clear. I consider all these people bodbuilders with a lot of them having large, defined muscles. It would be easy to spot these people as athletes. Anyone who builds their body in anyway is officially a bodybuilder. Personally, my bodybuilding keeps me from getting out of breath and has helped my endurance while doing demanding activities. It has helped me athletically.

 

 

Look at MMA, for example. Mirko Cro-Cop doesn't look physically intimidating at all. Neither did Kazushi Sakuraba, or any of the Gracies. But they sure as shit managed to beat a whole bunch of guys who were a lot bigger and more muscular than them.

Oh for sure. Of course. You don't have to be physically intimidating. Some are big time and some aren't. Some strenthg and muscle always gives you an edge though compared to what you would be if you never did anything.

 

Babe Ruth was the best player in the world when he was a fatass. Muhammed Ali was in good shape, but wasn't musclebound at all. Same thing with Michael Jordan.

Baseball is baseball. Boxers are bodybuilders. I actually don't watch much basketball but the point of Jordan is. that you don't have to be the Incredible Hulk in a different sport? For sure you don't.

 

The idea in wrestling that you don't "look like an athlete" unless you look like a bodybuilder is bullshit, plain and simple. Unfortunately, McMahon has infected so many people with his vision of what people should look like that it's become standard practice for wrestling fans to expect the workers to all look like the Terminator. And, with all the recent deaths and scandal, we've seen exactly what the downside to that sort of mentality is.

I think we may have different perceptions on what a bodybuilder is. Anyone who alters their body in in anyway to improve themselves is officially a bodybuilder. But yeah, this paragraph is pretty much right on target for the most part. But if a wrestler doesn't look fit, than it's up to them to prove they're an athlete once they're in the ring.

Edit -- Just thought it was cool to note how bodybuilderish wrestling is as an activity. Wrestling is all out intensity for short periods of time which is what bodbuilding is. Also, Franco Colombu was in the Terminator movie playing the Terminator.

 

 

Now, Vince has also helped convince people that bigger guys are better fighters than smaller ones, but that's a whole 'nother argument.

They do have a weight and strength advantage!! but yeah they're not always better fighters. I think the WWE has allievated this some though. Look at the WWF in years past for instance.