KB8 Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 He kind of had two "peaks" to me. In the 90s he was at least really solid, but mostly a bit...vanilla, I guess. It's almost astounding how much less charismatic he seemed in '96 compared to post-heel turn in '97, never mind his babyface run in WWF/E. That heel turn in '97 was great, and I thought he was as good as anyone in the world during the last six months of the year. He never really did a ton in WCW after that, though. He was still solid-good in the first short run in WWF, but it was after he came back in '02 when he really put it together again. I still think he was the best in the world in '05, and I'd honestly put him in that year up against most guys in history if it came to comparing guys at their absolute best. But yeah, he never had as lengthy a period as a real top tier guy as other potential top 10 guys/women in history. Who knows how long he'd have continued to be as good as he was before he died. Probably a while, but, y'know, it's not like you can really use that as an argument in his favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 But yeah, he never had as lengthy a period as a real top tier guy as other potential top 10 guys/women in history.Couldn't you say the same thing about El Dandy? That's what I was thinking of when I asked the question - superb wrestlers at their peak, but neither guy's peak lasted all that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I don't know if this is a fair comparison because of the huge disparity in available footage. It's much easier to poke holes in Eddy's work because there's so much of him on tape. Dandy's career isn't nearly as well documented. That aside, I'll go with Eddy due to his ability to get over in a wider variety of environments incorporating a wider variety of styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted December 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I don't think there is a ton of evidence to support the thesis that Eddy was more versatile than Dandy, and I say that as someone who thinks Eddy was a very versatile wrestler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Could Dandy have gotten over as a New Japan junior or a WWE main event heavyweight? For that matter, why couldn't he make it past jobber status in WCW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I was going to defend Dandy's versatility off of what I've seen. Face, Heel, Brawls, quick exchanges in trios, etc. BUT instead, I'm curious. Is there any evidence he could work 1997-8 WCW main event style? Is there some random Canek vs Dandy match out there to prove it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I don't see why Dandy wouldn't have been able to work as an NJ junior. He can fly, he can MORE than do the mat stuff on the level NJ juniors were doing, and watching stuff like Charles v. Dandy on the lucha set you can see he wouldn't have any trouble trading big moves and working near fall exchanges. I mean, of course you can see tons of evidence that point to a guy's being able to do well in a certain style but when he's IN that certain style it turns out he just doesn't take to it, but the signs point to Dandy being able to have some damn good workrate heavy junior matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Could Dandy have gotten over as a New Japan junior or a WWE main event heavyweight? For that matter, why couldn't he make it past jobber status in WCW? By this rationale, Ultimo Dragon was a better worker than El Dandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Aren't there some Dandy matches working Dragon and Sano in SWS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Could Dandy have gotten over as a New Japan junior or a WWE main event heavyweight? For that matter, why couldn't he make it past jobber status in WCW? I don't really consider getting over in more places reflective of versatility. El Dandy displayed an amazing versatility just within lucha libre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted December 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Could Dandy have gotten over as a New Japan junior or a WWE main event heavyweight? For that matter, why couldn't he make it past jobber status in WCW? Why didn't Tanahashi main event TNA ppvs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Did Jumbo or Tenryu ever really get over with US crowds? Sid did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Could Dandy have gotten over as a New Japan junior or a WWE main event heavyweight? For that matter, why couldn't he make it past jobber status in WCW? By this rationale, Ultimo Dragon was a better worker than El Dandy. Only if you thought they were roughly equal in every other respect. Could Dandy have gotten over as a New Japan junior or a WWE main event heavyweight? For that matter, why couldn't he make it past jobber status in WCW? I don't really consider getting over in more places reflective of versatility. El Dandy displayed an amazing versatility just within lucha libre. It's not just getting over in more places. It's getting over in places with completely different styles. Black Tiger is pretty far removed from Latino Heat. It should be noted that I consider Dandy to be a rather mediocre brawler. Could Dandy have gotten over as a New Japan junior or a WWE main event heavyweight? For that matter, why couldn't he make it past jobber status in WCW? Why didn't Tanahashi main event TNA ppvs? This might be a legitimate question if AJ Styles was a main eventer in New Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted December 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 So in other word different rules for your favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted December 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Just saw you think Dandy is a mediocre brawler. At that point there is no point even debating. To me that would be like someone saying "I think Dusty Rhodes is a weak promo." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 So in other word different rules for your favorites. Not at all. I'm trying to make an apples to apples comparison. I think both guys are elite workers, and I would grade their peak output as roughly equal. In that case, you have to draw the line further down, and I think versatility is as good a place as any. And yes, I recognize that I'm an outlier when it comes to Dandy's brawling abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I often wonder who is better out of Ric Flair and Bret Hart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I often wonder who is better out of Ric Flair and Bret Hart... It's never crossed my mind, and probably never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mando Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 El Dandy or Eddie Guerrero? I think the real question we should be asking here is: El Dandy or Mando Guerrero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I often wonder who is better out of Ric Flair and Bret Hart... It's never crossed my mind, and probably never will. Blood pressure rising ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 El Dandy was getting good reactions from WCW crowds when he was working random "lucha" matches on Thunder and JTTS matches. If pushed like say, Juventud or Ultimo, of course he would have gotten over just as well. WCW never even tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheGreatPuma Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Juventud and Ultimo did a lot of their own pushing by completely winning the audience over through what they did. To put it simply, they were awesome and the crowd knew it and loved it. Eddie's pre 97 run in WCW is underrated here work/charisma wise. The guy was charismatic naturally and it was evident before the charismatic heel turn. He had an inner face like charisma that the crowd definitely picked up on making him a fav and noticeable among the fans. Eddie's versatility does work for him as he could go anywhere and be over on a level that extremely few could match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Was Eddy really over in New Japan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 He was over enough to win BOSJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I often wonder who is better out of Ric Flair and Bret Hart... It's never crossed my mind, and probably never will. Blood pressure rising ... For the lolz gents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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