Best Angles That Didn't Pan Out

[artDDP]

It had all the makings of a typical WCW angle: The WWF purchases WCW in March and you never hear about it again until the King of the Ring, in June. Meanwhile, the XFL gets plenty of airtime until Vince and NBC decide to pull the plug.

 

During this time, heel Austin aligns with heel Vince and goes on a rampage, then settles into a goofy comedy shtick. Right before the Invasion PPV, Austin is suddenly a face again and his old buddy heel Vince is begging him to come back to fight the Alliance. Austin returns on Raw and mops the floor with all the WCW guys he will join forces with in a week. Vince is now a face.

 

Meanwhile, Dallas Page jumps, admits to being Sara's stalker, and says he did it because every wrestler dreams of being a part of the WWF. He says all this when he's supposed to be a top WCW heel.

 

I'm sure Vince and his writers thought this was complex, episodic television storytelling.

[kjh]

When you are running company vs. company and aren't smart enough to run "Nick Patrick, WCW referee, DQ's WWF wrestler for soft reason in interpromotional match", when everyone knows it's going to draw heat, you're either sinking the angle on purpose or the people writing it just don't understand what's going on when you book WWF vs. WCW as a wrestling feud.

Wasn't this the finish to Austin vs. Angle at SummerSlam 2001?

 

Still probably would have needed some sort of WCW non-McMahon mouthpiece. Bischoff, Flair, hell could have been Dusty I guess.

I think they realistically could have gotten Flair to be WCW's mouthpiece. Unlike the other big names that the WWF opted against buying out their contracts, Flair didn't have an exorbitant downside guarantee.

[Guest Slickster]

The 'WCW referee screws a WWE guy' finish was done at least twice I can recall (the first Booker T-Kurt Angle match on Raw and at SummerSlam 2001). I think there was some sort of storyline explanation for why the WCW refs didn't just screw every WWE guy over.

 

Remember when the WCW referees got silver-and-black referee shirts so they would look more heelish?

[Slasher]

Actually the finish at Summerslam was Nick Patrick disqualifying AUSTIN (Alliance rep) for hitting referees, which enabled him to keep the belt. Not much of a difference, I know, but it isn't quite the "DQ the WWF wrestler" scenario laid out.

[Jingus]

Hogan & Nash & Hall proved to be posion in WCW, which was something that Bruce was onto in that early column he did about how they were destroying the babyface side.

I think I remember that. You mean the Torch article Mitchell wrote after Fall Brawl 96? Yeah, reading it years after the fact, I was struck by how prescient some of his guesses were. I loved one line which went something like "The nWo destroyed its WCW opponents in the Wargames match. They did so without breaking a sweat, or, more tellingly, taking a bump."

 

I don't know if Cornette,Hart, Mike Sanders, Ernest Miller, Bagwell, Dustin, Anderson, Kidman, David Flair or Eaton could have pulled it off.

...what? No. No they could not.

[tomk]

You don't think with good writing David Flair could have pulled off Randy Hales/Mark Curtis level mic work establishing reason why he cared about WCW and was anti-WWF? His Wildsidfe and WCCW mic work suggests that he could pull off something that basic.

 

Bobby Eaton may be lesser mic worker than Shane Mcmahon, but him as mouth piece doing TV title level mic work even stumbling over stuff would be recognized as distinctively WCW mouthpiece.

 

Doesn't require alot of compelling mic work...just someone recognizable as distinctively "WCW".

[Jingus]

You don't think with good writing David Flair could have pulled off Randy Hales/Mark Curtis level mic work establishing reason why he cared about WCW and was anti-WWF? His Wildsidfe and WCCW mic work suggests that he could pull off something that basic.

I never saw his Wildside stuff, I think WCW forbid them from showing him on television. And I dunno what WCCW you're referring to. I can only remember two examples of David's mic work. The first was when he was the crowbar-wielding psychopath character. It was a step up for him, but it was still cartoonish as hell and not anything you'd want to build a serious angle on. The other was when TNA tried to run a Legacy angle, but had the brilliant idea of using Erik Watts, Brian Christopher, and David as their second-generation superstars. David was just bland and forgettable there, no fire, not even a spark.

 

Bobby Eaton may be lesser mic worker than Shane Mcmahon, but him as mouth piece doing TV title level mic work even stumbling over stuff would be recognized as distinctively WCW mouthpiece.

Bobby's kind of infamous for being a lousy talker. Even just speaking with him about inconsequential shit backstage, he tends to talk slow and stumble over his words.

 

Doesn't require alot of compelling mic work...just someone recognizable as distinctively "WCW".

If you were going to make WCW the bumbling joke heels, perhaps. But this was a time when the fans were spoiled by the likes of Rock, Foley, and others giving really great interviews on a weekly basis. If WCW's mouthpiece couldn't cut a compelling promo, I can't see the fans at the time getting behind it. For the same reason I wouldn't have put Goldberg in that spot, despite him being the only real home-grown superstar that WCW had left by that point. You needed someone like Flair or Arn or at least Bisch who could go out there and deliver on the stick.

[Johnny Sorrow]

The Alliance did have a great mouthpeice in Heyman for all of two weeks. The week after the RAW where ECW joined WCW, they did this great promo with the Alliance in the ring with Stephanie, Heyman, and Shane standing in front of them where Heyman revealed that the whole Invasion was his idea and ECW was his child that Vince stole from him, so he now has stolen Vince's children who look to him as their Father now. (That was the gist of it. It was awesome.)

 

And a few weeks later Heyman was the heel announcer and they didn't touch on the previous angle at all until the Heyman promo before Survivor Series.

[S.L.L.]

Bobby Eaton may be lesser mic worker than Shane Mcmahon, but him as mouth piece doing TV title level mic work even stumbling over stuff would be recognized as distinctively WCW mouthpiece.

Bobby's kind of infamous for being a lousy talker. Even just speaking with him about inconsequential shit backstage, he tends to talk slow and stumble over his words.

Did you ever see the DVDVR Memphis set? There is a Bobby Eaton match in there that is preceded by an Eaton interview, which is not only really good, but includes him referring to his opponent as a "jabroni" and calling himself "the people's champion". It was a really revelatory experience, as apparently, not only was Bobby Eaton a strong mic worker, but Bobby Eaton was The Rock. Didn't have as strong a delivery of the material as Rock did, but still. Not as good of a mic worker as Cornette, either, and I guess once they hooked up, he figured he could leave the talking to Corny and just hold up his end in the ring.

 

I mean, I've heard stories of him being really ineloquent backstage, but for the most part, he is a guy who just didn't get a lot of mic time once the MX formed than a guy who got mic time and bungled it. Maybe a guy who got really out of practice and lost his skills. But not a guy who wasn't skilled in the first place. Maybe I need to rewatch the promos from when The Bluebloods were formed.

[Ditch]

I don't think Eaton even begins to work in 2001, he was so far removed from being relevant in WCW.

[El-P]

Eaton had been a JTTS for years at this point, and was not even being featured on any of the two main WCW shows for 2-3 years at least. The WWF audience wouldn't even have recognized who the hell that guy was.

[tomk]

I never saw his Wildside stuff, I think WCW forbid them from showing him on television. And I dunno what WCCW you're referring to. I can only remember two examples of David's mic work. The first was when he was the crowbar-wielding psychopath character. It was a step up for him, but it was still cartoonish as hell and not anything you'd want to build a serious angle on. The other was when TNA tried to run a Legacy angle, but had the brilliant idea of using Erik Watts, Brian Christopher, and David as their second-generation superstars. David was just bland and forgettable there, no fire, not even a spark.

I meant WCW mic work.

 

You don't need Heyman doing big "Shoots". All you needed is someone saying. "Hey I was raised by WCW, these people are my family and nothing will take them away from me." and then be able to eat a bump.

 

I don't think Eaton even begins to work in 2001, he was so far removed from being relevant in WCW.

Eaton was teaming with Kenny Kaos in 99. He was being used as a joke by Bret Hart in the same speech where Hart mocked El Dandy.

Ideally I want the mouthpiece role to be played by a non-wrestler. Not sugesting Eaton as worker but Eaton working as retired wrestler mouthpiece-the equivalent of Hoshino in Makai Club. Or the way that WWF used Killer Kowalski in the Invasion angle. Even if WWF audience finds Eaton as unfamiliar as Kowalski, it still works better than having WCW mouthpiece be a Mcmahon making the whole angle just another trinket in that family feud.

[Tim Evans]

Wasn't Eaton in ECW in 2000 with Danny Doring?

[kjh]

Or the way that WWF used Killer Kowalski in the Invasion angle. Even if WWF audience finds Eaton as unfamiliar as Kowalski, it still works better than having WCW mouthpiece be a Mcmahon making the whole angle just another trinket in that family feud.

I think you mean Freddie Blassie, not Kowalski.

[tomk]

yeah Blassie. Which is the point.It doesn't matter ifg I recognize the guy as long as I believe he legit cares.

[Bob Morris]

One of the points brought up in Death of WCW... and yes, I know, the book tends to contradict itself in spots when discussing the InVasion... is that the nWo ball started rolling by using two WWF guys, one who was the worst drawing WWF champion in company history and the other who was a popular midcarder but no more than that. Sounds similar to Booker T and DDP, does it not?

 

I agree with what has been said that proper writing would have done it, but you really need the right person to pair with Booker and DDP to put it over the top. Austin is the obvious choice, as WWF made it no secret about Austin's WCW past, even if it wasn't being told from the storyline perspective, so you can go with that and make it work.

 

As far as the mouthpiece goes, I would have done whatever it took to get Ric Flair on board. Jim Ross can say what he wants about upsetting salary structure, but one could seldom accuse Flair of being lazy and selfish, so you can just tell the WWF locker room that he's going to earn his pay and don't worry about it.

 

As far as all the contracts they took on, I'd just have those guys spend time working dark matches, developmental territories or indy feds so they can stay in shape, until you can figure out the proper way to work them into the storyline.

 

Done in a more focused way with the idea of a slow build to everything, you could probably make it work without having to bring in every big-ticket wrestler who was part of the WCW roster... they could then come along when their THE deals ran out.

 

And I'll throw this in for what it's worth: I wonder if WWF's rush also had to do with the fact that they were selling stock at that point and the stockholders wanted to see a return on the money WWF spent to buy WCW. Even if it wasn't the main reason the InVasion flopped, I don't think Vince and company had any clue how to handle the stockholders at the time (in fact, I still don't think they know how to do that).

[El-P]

One of the points brought up in Death of WCW... and yes, I know, the book tends to contradict itself in spots when discussing the InVasion... is that the nWo ball started rolling by using two WWF guys, one who was the worst drawing WWF champion in company history and the other who was a popular midcarder but no more than that. Sounds similar to Booker T and DDP, does it not?

That's a good point. The difference is, WCW treated them like a huge deal and huge stars that they were supposed to be. Diesel had been the WWF champion for nearly one year, main eventing every PPV, and Razor had been one of the most recognizable face of teh company working in upper mid card and winning the IC title 4 times at a time it meant something. Of course what put them over the edge was Hogan, and like you said, Austin could have been their "third man", but the problem is WWF didn't talk about Booker and DDP like they were major stars. Writing made the difference. WCW wanted to ake money with the NWO. WWF just wanted to feed their own ego with the Invasion.

[Slasher]

DDP debuted independently of the Invasion angle as well. He was Sara Undertaker's stalker to begin with. Now Booker's debut was pretty awesome, and if they had paired Austin with him as well as DDP, it'd have definitely worked, but only if Booker was destroying Jericho and Benoit instead in that match.

[Bix]

Nash had actually turned into a draw as a heel during his last several months in the WWF. Bret Hart vs The Undertaker vs Diesel turned house show business around.

[jdw]

What Bix said. It wasn't huge, huge, huge off the charts numbers. But it was very clear the attendance started going up at that point and not by an insignificant amount.

 

John

[artDDP]

Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, even as part of the "new generation" were still much, much cooler than WCW's top tier babyfaces. Also, the WWF was still the established leader in North American pro wrestling so the idea of their top stars defecting to destroy WCW from inside was pretty believable and novel. The WWF emphatically putting WCW out of business and their mid-card talents being bitter about it wasn't quite as compelling.

 

That, and Dallas Page and Booker T were not Steve Austin or The Rock.

 

All that said, the WWF definitely could have booked them to look much, much stronger.

[BruiserBrody]

 

Sort of ironic that Arn would be forced to retire for a similar issue as Orndorff within a year...

 

The neck brace promo Orndorff cuts on a COTC soon after had me wanting Orndorff to come back and take on the 4H... one of those feuds that never went anywhere (understandably so)

[El-P]

Shane Douglas vs Brian Pillman in March 1996. Pillman couldn't work back then, and ended up in the WWF shortly thereafter, but the few confrontations they two had got nuclear heat. It's funny how ECW was a laboratory for dismissed wrestlers from WCW and WWF. Steve Austin's short stint was really a way for him to show what his Stone Cold character could be. Of course since no one was watching ECW Vince turned him into the mute and dull Ringmaster, the creative genius that he is. Pillman basically kept on digging his Loose Cannon gimmick, which was a bit forced at times, but still was a formidable heat magnet in ECW. Douglas was a fantastic worker at this time, it's really too bad they could never work a few matches.

[Ditch]

How about Lesnar vs Goldberg? One of the biggest matches ever in kayfabe terms, and it was a disaster.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Shane Douglas vs Brian Pillman in March 1996. Pillman couldn't work back then, and ended up in the WWF shortly thereafter, but the few confrontations they two had got nuclear heat. It's funny how ECW was a laboratory for dismissed wrestlers from WCW and WWF. Steve Austin's short stint was really a way for him to show what his Stone Cold character could be. Of course since no one was watching ECW Vince turned him into the mute and dull Ringmaster, the creative genius that he is. Pillman basically kept on digging his Loose Cannon gimmick, which was a bit forced at times, but still was a formidable heat magnet in ECW. Douglas was a fantastic worker at this time, it's really too bad they could never work a few matches.

Douglas wanted to bring in Pillman to wrestle him at November to Remember '97, but Heyman told him Brian wouldn't be alive by then, and he was right.