Dave Meltzer stuff

[rzombie1988]

I don't really see the controversy here for a lot of reasons:

 

1) Every wrestling fan would love to call a show. No one here would turn down a commentary gig for the Tokyo Dome. No one, unless they were physically unable to. Dylan does a radio show. So would him doing it mean it wouldn't morally correct to do so? Should ___ ESPN commentator stop covering their sport because it wouldn't be ethical? Bullshit.

 

2) Dave is already connected with almost every promotion in some way or another. Dave talks to Dana White and Dave used to talk to Vince. ROH and others run ads on his site. Dave brings wrestlers on for interviews. Dave gets information from people in the business and probably gives them some information too. Every time Dave or Bryan mention a promotion, they are by default giving it promotion and advertisement. Every wrestling site or message board is a living advertisement for a promotion.

 

3) There's not a ton of English speakers to choose from who know about NJPW. There's me, the F4W/PWTorch crew, former wrestlers, Josh Barnett and other journalists/fans/wrestlers. I don't think NJPW's gonna be searching message boards for fans either. Dave would clearly be a top pick as would Striker, Ross, Tenay, etc.

 

4) You can't review a wrestling show without any bias whatsoever, because so much of wrestling is based on opinion and not fact. There is no factual standard for a good promotion. Money doesn't count either because WWF made a ton of it in the Attitude era and had awful wrestling. You can tell on the box score when a player has a good game, but you can't with wrestling because it's FAKE. With that being said, yes, Dave pimping NJPW has no doubt helped its popularity as it did with ECW and AAA in the 90's, but the number is still low. Even the Tokyo Dome reviews on my site still got 1/10 of an unpopular Raw review. if Dave got into say Zero-1 tomorrow, a bunch of people who didn't have any interest before would suddenly be interested too.

 

5) It's a lot more fun and enjoyable to review and talk about shows when you like them, as opposed to when you hate them. Cleaning a toilet would have been more appealing to me than sitting through a 3 hour Raw. Listen to a Bryan and Vinny show when they have to talk about Impact and you'll always hear a loud "UGH". Meanwhile, they enjoy a show like NXT more and have much more positive reviews of it.

 

Screw Dave for trying to do something he'd enjoy and for trying to do something that would benefit him, right? Obviously, he should be taking career and life advice from Keith Harris, whoever the hell that is.

[Dooley]

I don't see how it would have been wrong for him to be willing to announce for them. Maybe if it was a full time gig, but Dave would never have made that sort of commitment. As a one time deal it would have been fine I think. It would have been far more weird to me listening him talk about wrestling in a kayfabe manner than wondering if it would have compromised his coverage in the newsletter.

 

This. Certain people are looking to make a mountain out of a molehill.

[rzombie1988]

What would Dave have said if a match was bad? That's the issue.

Dave knows everyone in the business. He pimps and critiques their stuff always. He would just be nicer about it instead of saying "that was f'ing stupid". Dave and Bryan interviewed Jeff Jarrett recently, despite ripping TNA apart for years. Dave ripped Dana White in the past, and still texts him all the time. Bryan had everyone from ROH on shows recently, and still is able to say what he likes and doesn't like.

[JonnyBart]

 

Not really seeing the controversy. He wouldn't have been paid by NJPW he would have been paid by GFW. I don't see any reason it would have affected his future coverage of New Japan just because he called one New Japan show for Jeff Jarrett's PPV that no one is going to buy anyway. How is it different than people in sports media like Bob Costas who calls games for MLB Network?

 

The difference there is that essentially MLB is the only game in town and Costas doesn't run a private business where he offers "objective" analysis of an entire field. Had Meltzer taken the gig his credibility should have been shot, but most probably would have ignored simply out of blind love for NJPW. This would be more akin to Costas owning Baseball Prospectus and doing announcing for the San Diego Padres while still purporting to be delivering unbiased analysis of the Padres product in his Baseball Prospectus work.

 

What about all of the team owned networks (I'm thinking YES, SNY, NESN as I'm on the east coast) that employ sports writers or sports radio hosts to be a part of the broadcast/network. Occasionally those guys get flack for objectivity issues (by media talkers), but its never talked about as this disgrace to the profession.

 

I think those being critical are reaching on this one, especially within the current sports media climate.

[Childs]

Dave has always asked to be taken seriously as a reporter. Someone who wants to be taken seriously as a reporter should not take a paying gig from one of the major companies he covers. Sorry, that's journalism ethics 101.

[BillThompson]

 

 

Not really seeing the controversy. He wouldn't have been paid by NJPW he would have been paid by GFW. I don't see any reason it would have affected his future coverage of New Japan just because he called one New Japan show for Jeff Jarrett's PPV that no one is going to buy anyway. How is it different than people in sports media like Bob Costas who calls games for MLB Network?

 

The difference there is that essentially MLB is the only game in town and Costas doesn't run a private business where he offers "objective" analysis of an entire field. Had Meltzer taken the gig his credibility should have been shot, but most probably would have ignored simply out of blind love for NJPW. This would be more akin to Costas owning Baseball Prospectus and doing announcing for the San Diego Padres while still purporting to be delivering unbiased analysis of the Padres product in his Baseball Prospectus work.

 

What about all of the team owned networks (I'm thinking YES, SNY, NESN as I'm on the east coast) that employ sports writers or sports radio hosts to be a part of the broadcast/network. Occasionally those guys get flack for objectivity issues (by media talkers), but its never talked about as this disgrace to the profession.

 

I think those being critical are reaching on this one, especially within the current sports media climate.

 

 

In those cases they are being hired to provide objective analysis of a specific team. That carries with it the expectations that they will be critical of the team, but that they will also be somewhat biased. They shouldn't at the same time continue to produce content about the greater organizations their team is a part of. That's the issue here with Dave, and I believe Childs' post above mine gets to the ultimate heart of the matter,

[KrisZ]

Dave has always asked to be taken seriously as a reporter. Someone who wants to be taken seriously as a reporter should not take a paying gig from one of the major companies he covers. Sorry, that's journalism ethics 101.

 

And this comes from a respected journalist in his own right so he knows what he is talking about.

 

I brought up Steve Farhood last night on Twitter as he calls fights for Showtime while writing for Ring Magazine but boxing is a totally different business monster.

[Tim Cooke]

Meltzer has never been a traditional reporter. The Observer has always been 'wrestling news filtered through his eyes.' Would a journalist use the term 'Anabolic Warrior' in every other report he/she wrote in the late 80's/early 90's that talked about Ultimate Warrior?

 

I agree with Childs about the journalistic ethics but Dave was also never offered the gig, so this is a theoretical discussion.

 

This isn't Nestor Aparcio, a 'reporter' from an almost now defunct radio station in Baltimore claiming to be a journalist while wearing his Ravens jersey in the press box at Ravens games.

[KrisZ]

Dave on the F4W MB

 

 

The negative response to Striker as explained on the podcast is because he's all wrong for the position. It's not even whether he's good or bad at Lucha Underground, which I thought it was good at first but he gets annoying real fast, because the role JR needed was to for someone who can fill in what he doesn't know or wouldn't pick up on instinctively. There's no way he can know the nuances of the booking that led to the matches, Gedo's style of booking, whatever history fits in, where the promotion is culturally and the ability to explain it to an audience that is both starting at square one, while not insulting the audience that knows. Several involved in the show realize just how much there is and it really hit me yesterday when preparing notes for JR. He'll do fine calling the matches, but instinctively, he's not going to know Japan and why certain things are what they are, why crowds react to certain things the way they do or why they don't to other things, why the comedy spots work, why some shitty trademark spots get over, why some moves are over huge and others aren't. It would be he same as bringing in a Japanese guy who can announce a great match, never watched WWE, doesn't know the booking, and send them out there to do Mania and use some guy who maybe watched three weeks of Raw. Plus, with Striker, it's a guy trained at the WWF style of announcing, which is all wrong for this product. Ross at least was taught the Mid South style, which is different from New Japan, but the goals in announcing are very similar. I'd bet on Mike Kogan, who knows zero pro wrestling and actually hated pro wrestling, to do this better than someone trained at a style of announcing for a product which is completely different.

Striker can watch tapes and read all he wants in two weeks, and he's not going to be that guy. Plus, he has to break every instinct he has as an announcer based on how he was taught. I suggested Pollock, who knows the subject and the promotion, not myself, but I'd have done it if asked.

And again, I would not have gotten paid by New Japan to begin with. Money was never discussed and it was never about that. It was about filling in the gaps to make sure JR's final PPV show, if this is what it is, is him going out with a bang and not being faulted by hardcores because he hasn't watched every New Japan PPV show in the last five years and won't know some finishers instinctively. I was considering going Dec. 30 to Jan 4 to Japan long before this came up, and would have for sure had not the Jones-Cormier fight existed. Once that did, and the fact my son has had perfect attendance in school for years and didn't want to miss any days, we decided August was better for the trip. In theory, had I been paid, it would be from a company that at this point in time doesn't exist, except as a broadcast partner for a promotion, not the promotion. They don't even have the U.S. TV rights, nor the U.S. live show promotional rights. They aren't running the show in any way and they don't promote wrestling in any form. They may in the future, but this isn't the future.

[Sean Liska]

Interesting that the main reason he wanted to do it was to make sure JR could go out on a high note. I guess I respect that.

[Loss]

 

What would Dave have said if a match was bad? That's the issue.

Dave knows everyone in the business. He pimps and critiques their stuff always. He would just be nicer about it instead of saying "that was f'ing stupid". Dave and Bryan interviewed Jeff Jarrett recently, despite ripping TNA apart for years. Dave ripped Dana White in the past, and still texts him all the time. Bryan had everyone from ROH on shows recently, and still is able to say what he likes and doesn't like.

 

 

If he praises something, the sincerity of it is immediately in question. If he criticizes something, why did he flip flop? It's pretty bad that he ever considered doing something. He's not a message board poster or a huge fan as much as he is a journalist.

[Loss]

I have no issue with him helping announcers prepare for shows. He has done that before. He helped Mike Tenay track Goldberg's streak and gave Joey Styles info to use when calling the Michinoku Pro tag at Barely Legal. But as a voice on the air, when an announcer's job is to make everything seem great whether it is or not?

[sek69]

It seems like he never pursued the job, it was more like whoever Jarrett was consulting (probably JR I would assume) mentioned Dave as someone who they thought would do well in the role as someone who would be able to talk about NJPW without sounding like he was completely out to lunch. Maybe he shouldn't have mentioned he was in the running, but I could just see if it came out later the same people would be freaking out like "OMG WHAT ELSE HAS DAVE BEEN KEEPING SECRET".

 

Besides, he's not doing the job so I really don't get why there's a need to create some kind of Dave-gate over this.

[KrisZ]

 

"THIS IS ALL A TROJAN HORSE ANYWAY TO TAKE THE HEAT OFF OF JEFF JARRETT AND HIS PONZI SCHEME THAT IS GLOBAL FORCE WRESTLING"

[Dooley]

Dave has always asked to be taken seriously as a reporter. Someone who wants to be taken seriously as a reporter should not take a paying gig from one of the major companies he covers. Sorry, that's journalism ethics 101.

 

Dude, it's a kayfabe gig. We're not talking about Woodward working for the White House here.

[Shining Wiz]

This "controversy" is hilarious.

[Loss]

"Controversy" is the wrong word. He didn't take the gig. But we can still debate whether or not it's appropriate for a wrestling reporter to take on that role. Was anyone who thinks this is all ridiculous around when Bob Ryder was covering WCW as a WCW employee on 1wrestling.com? If so, do we really want Dave Meltzer to be the next Bob Ryder?

[tim]

I think the main reason a lot of people don't think of it as that big a deal is that they view, in terms of Meltzer's job as a journalist, his WWE coverage as VASTLY more important than his NJPW coverage. Being "compromised" in his coverage of a Japanese promotion that he loves anyway and whose business/behind-the-scenes his readers generally don't have nearly as much interest in as that of WWE just doesn't strike a lot of people as a big hit to his credibility. Which is kind of how I feel about it as well. I mean, I'd have liked it to happen just because it would've been interesting.

[BillThompson]

I will say that I think Dave is stretching it really thin with the "I wouldn't have been paid by NJPW, but by GFW" argument. It's one and the same at this point, and in either scenario it's a gig I'm glad he didn't pursue.

[sek69]

I mean, Dave's so over the moon with NJPW these days it's not like he'd only gush over the show if he was calling it. If anything, I could see Dave tempering his enthusiasm for the show if he had done it just to avoid coming off as a shill.

 

When Ryder was working for WCW, everyone knew what the deal was and it's not like he was a bastion of credibility even with that taken out of the equation. He was the epitome of a guy who made it big because he was one of the first, not from being good at what he did. There's a reason why once the internet grew, people left his site in droves and the people who stayed ended up drowning in popups.

 

It's just so odd to me that it's like there's an expectation that Dave should be held to a higher standard than folks who cover real sports. ESPN is famous for not even bothering to cover sports that they don't get money from, yet we're supposed to have concern that getting one paycheck from Jarrett's vanity promotion will stain his legacy.

[Sean Liska]

It's just so odd to me that it's like there's an expectation that Dave should be held to a higher standard than folks who cover real sports. ESPN is famous for not even bothering to cover sports that they don't get money from, yet we're supposed to have concern that getting one paycheck from Jarrett's vanity promotion will stain his legacy.

 

Real sports coverage sucks. Of course long-time readers are going to be worried if he starts doing anything that resembles ESPN.

[ohtani's jacket]

Isn't being a UFC judge a lot worse than commentating a wrestling show?

[sek69]

Serious question, would it cause the same concern if it came out he was getting a cut from the "MELTZER DRIVER EVERYONE" shirt the Young Bucks came out with?

[Loss]

I don't know the answer to that question. Possibly? I think it's a testament to Dave's credibility that he is held to a higher standard. He's kept his integrity covering professional wrestling for 30 years. Think about all that entails and how admirable that is. So when something like this happens, it stands out a lot more than it would if he had a track record of this sort of thing.

 

For those who scoff at this because it's just wrestling, remember that Dave has covered rapes, murders, Congressional hearings, sex scandals, drug-related deaths, domestic violence, suicide and far more -- and in many cases involving people who knew very well on a personal level.

[Shining Wiz]

If it turned out that Meltzer has actually been on WWE's payroll for the last 30 years and they use him to plant stories......I still wouldn't care.