Dave Meltzer stuff

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Is it likely Dave has WWE footage that isnt in circulation?

 

He has the Bret vs Tom Magee match, at least.

[pantherwagner]

It started to go overboard when K-1 and Pride fighters and matches won awards in Japanese wrestling magazines.

 

Yes, completely misunderstanding that the magazines were latching on to whatever sold copies. I'm surprised that somebody as smart and aware as Dave would have caught onto that.

 

I'm glad the days of the MMA = pro wrestling talking point are over.

[pantherwagner]

I'm starting to doubt that very much, although it's possible.

 

I guess that Dave may have some MSG, MLG, etc. type shows that never made it to WWE Classics on Demand.

Other than that I imagine that the strength of Dave's collection may be in US territorial stuff.

[iamthedoctor]

 

One of Dave's better tweets recently

 

 

Dave Meltzer @davemeltzerWON · 15h 15 hours ago

Doesn't that Southern Comfort bartender look like Kevin Von Erich at 21 if Kevin was 150 pounds?

 

 

Nice to see its not only the UK who gets that advert.

[goc]

Dave from the 12/8 WON talking about Curt Hennig:

From probably 1986 through 1991, when his back went out, Hennig was one of the five best wrestlers in North America.

I just can't see a legitimate argument.

[KrisZ]

1986-88 there is an argument that can be made....

[khawk20]

Dave pimped Curt as probably the best AWA worker in 1984 FWIW, so he was on Dave's radar for some time.

[Blazer]

1986-88 there is an argument that can be made....

 

US only? Hennig's in the top five. Any argument would be weak. Throw Flair and Bock in there.

[funkdoc]

yeah, i agree with US-only. not so sure about north america, as lucha adds plenty of viable candidates.

[cm funk]

FRI. UPDATE: Another big weekend of major events, More from last night's NXT, Smackdwon in Canada, Mainroster notes, Hogan daets on WWE TV, WWE star gets another surgery , Rock media vs. Shaq, Lucha Undergrond, Styles vs. Mundo, WWE Network schedule

 

multiple typos!

 

smackdwon

 

mainroster

 

daets

 

undergrond

 

I always get a laugh out of Meltzer's inability to proofread

[NintendoLogic]

Him and Alvarez discussed it on a recent podcast. Alvarez talks about how he's been watching old footage lately. He's been watching Raws and Nitros. Alvarez says that their's a ton to learn from by watching old footage. Dave did his regular talking point, but did say watching wrestling today is like watching a dance. While older stuff seemed much more emotional and the wrestlers weren't dancing, they were fighting. These aren't quotes but from what I remember. Dave says older footage shows guys doing stuff in a match to a guy he doesn't like in the course of a wrestling match.

 

Yeah, he said the following in a NJPW World recommendation thread a little over a week ago:

 

I watched Choshu & Takano vs. Tenryu & Misawa from the 1990 Dome, and it reminded me of how these guys who aren't smooth but are pretending to fight and hate each other is so much better than pretty work.

 

Hopefully, that'll kill the "Dave only likes X Division matches" talking point for good.

[EricR]

I doubt it will kill it, as most of the matches he rates highly still fall into "epic workrate" style. If this comes to be some watershed moment where he starts turning on those types of matches as if a lightbulb went off, we can reference this moment.

[PhilTLL]

 

I always get a laugh out of Meltzer's inability to proofread

 

In this week's WON he points out how Punk is sort of being used in UFC the way he complained about part-timers being used in WWE, and he makes a first reference to "Johnson," just Johnson. It's easy enough to figure out he means Rock, but it's a classic Dave fundamentals-of-writing mistake.

[W2BTD]

 

It looks like NJPW World is turning Dave into one of us. I love it! Check out his Twitter if you don't know what I mean.

 

I'd love to hear Dave talk again broach the subject of reevaluating old footage. Since World launched that's pretty much all he's been doing. It's a pretty seismic shift from someone who once directly told me that reevaluating old footage was a waste of time because you have to be in the moment to get a match.

 

 

Not this shit again.

 

He doesn't believe in rerating old matches, because he believes in sticking with the rating he gave it in the moment, which is perfectly reasonable and makes a ton of sense, yet is constantly misinterpreted by some here. This has nothing to do with rewatching old matches, and *gasp*, enjoying them.

[W2BTD]

yeah, i agree with US-only. not so sure about north america, as lucha adds plenty of viable candidates.

 

I'm sure when he said "North America", he meant U.S. & Canada, which is something I do without thinking all of the time and it drives me nuts.

[Grimmas]

 

 

It looks like NJPW World is turning Dave into one of us. I love it! Check out his Twitter if you don't know what I mean.

 

I'd love to hear Dave talk again broach the subject of reevaluating old footage. Since World launched that's pretty much all he's been doing. It's a pretty seismic shift from someone who once directly told me that reevaluating old footage was a waste of time because you have to be in the moment to get a match.

 

 

Not this shit again.

 

He doesn't believe in rerating old matches, because he believes in sticking with the rating he gave it in the moment, which is perfectly reasonable and makes a ton of sense, yet is constantly misinterpreted by some here. This has nothing to do with rewatching old matches, and *gasp*, enjoying them.

 

Actually it's insane. Imagine if movies, paintings and music couldn't be re-evaluated? It's a Wonderful Life would be a nothing movie nobody would watch, if that was the case.

[BillThompson]

Rewatching, and reevaluating, older works is a vital part of viewing art. You remove that from the equation and art is a lifeless construct with no value or meaning. I've said it before, but Dave's stance on reevaluating old footage isn't just odd, it's stupid and makes absolutely no sense from any perspective.

[WingedEagle]

Why isn't there room for both? Some wrestling matches / movies are fantastic the first time you see them and don't hold up as well years later. Others age incredibly well. Acknowledging 10 years down the road that something sucks doesn't take away from your enjoyment on day 1.

[pol]

I'm pretty sure the not re-evaluating matches thing is in deference to the fact that pro wrestling is ultimately a business of selling matches and pleasing the crowd in the building/watching live on TV. He thinks going back and re-evaluating stuff from a distance is missing the point of wrestling. You can make analogies to other media that make this attitude sound ridiculous (e.g. "it's unfair to go back and re-evaluate that was hugely successful upon release!") but to do so is to miss the point because he doesn't view wrestling as analogous to those other media; he doesn't see it as an art form. Of course then you have to ask why he bothers rating matches at all rather than just looking at how they drew and how hot the crowd was for it. Seems like a weird half-measure.

[KrisZ]

From today's daily update

 

 

 

--There is talk that the Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena match at the Royal Rumble will be pushed as their last match.

 

I guess those two ads that played last night saying that the match was their FINAL BATTLE didn't resonate.

[jdw]

"Bluto's right. Psychotic... but absolutely right."

-Otter

 

I'm pretty sure the not re-evaluating matches thing is in deference to the fact that pro wrestling is ultimately a business of selling matches and pleasing the crowd in the building/watching live on TV. He thinks going back and re-evaluating stuff from a distance is missing the point of wrestling. You can make analogies to other media that make this attitude sound ridiculous (e.g. "it's unfair to go back and re-evaluate that was hugely successful upon release!") but to do so is to miss the point because he doesn't view wrestling as analogous to those other media; he doesn't see it as an art form. Of course then you have to ask why he bothers rating matches at all rather than just looking at how they drew and how hot the crowd was for it. Seems like a weird half-measure.

 

Let's try this:

 

I'm pretty sure the not re-evaluating movies thing is in deference to the fact that movies are ultimately a business of selling movies and pleasing the ticket buyers in the movie theater or watching it on TV via dvd, VOD, pay channels, or free channels.

 

Yeah, Dave's view works on some completely nutty level that treat pro wrestling differently that other forms of entertainment.

 

John

[jdw]

 

 

It looks like NJPW World is turning Dave into one of us. I love it! Check out his Twitter if you don't know what I mean.

 

I'd love to hear Dave talk again broach the subject of reevaluating old footage. Since World launched that's pretty much all he's been doing. It's a pretty seismic shift from someone who once directly told me that reevaluating old footage was a waste of time because you have to be in the moment to get a match.

 

 

Not this shit again.

 

He doesn't believe in rerating old matches, because he believes in sticking with the rating he gave it in the moment, which is perfectly reasonable and makes a ton of sense, yet is constantly misinterpreted by some here. This has nothing to do with rewatching old matches, and *gasp*, enjoying them.

 

 

It doesn't make a ton of sense. We all re-rate things in life. Good lord, we've all re-rated girlfriends or wives, let alone pro wrestling matches.

 

Beyond that, we all grasp the explanation Dave gives for refusing to re-rate / re-think old stuff. We just happen to think it's rather obtuse and inconsistent to how we all think and then re-think about a lot of things.

[ohtani's jacket]

Rewatching, and reevaluating, older works is a vital part of viewing art. You remove that from the equation and art is a lifeless construct with no value or meaning. I've said it before, but Dave's stance on reevaluating old footage isn't just odd, it's stupid and makes absolutely no sense from any perspective.

 

I dunno about that. Rewatching and reevaluating stuff is all hunky dory when you're uncovering hidden gems or championing something that had a bad rep in the past, but when you start panning things that were popular in the past you do tend to lose a little perspective. The fact that reappraisals fall in and out of favour means they're more reflective of modern whims than some sort of timeless standard. Dave's default position always seems defensive, as though nobody would ever believe that older wrestling holds up, but I do think taking into account the history and context of what you're watching is important when re-evaluating matches and too often overlooked in favour of the immediacy of "did that do anything for me?"

[shoe]

I moved all the Charlotte and Sasha talk to it's own thread.

[Sean Liska]

In today's Observer, Dave mentioned talking to Jeff Jarrett about being JR's partner for the NJPW 1/4 show and being willing to do it. Interesting since I remember him being regretful about even having a brief association in the 80s with WWE and scouting some foreign talent for them and thinking it compromised him.