Dave Meltzer stuff

[Jmare007]

 

Meltzer rates based on his favorites, which I guess we all do. So Owens and Rollins are always higher. Reigns he doesn't really like, so he's always lower. He flat out blamed Sheamus for ending Bryan's career in his review of the tag, so that match wasn't rated high, etc, etc

So do a lot of the people who vote in Observer polls. There were people who had those two matches pegged as the best of the night long before the matches actually happened and would have still voted that way if the two matches were god awful and Roman vs Braun (who finished 1 & 2 for most overrated in the year end awards) had been a 5* classic.

 

 

Roman I get as his case has been talked about countless times. But I'm shocked about Braun. I know he didn't really reach full awesomeness till this year but even by November he was clearly getting better and showing signs he was very good and worth a push.

[El-P]

I don't get the concept of being mad over some people not liking the same thing as you. So people thought Owens vs Jericho was MOTN, doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid. I think the hour long draw world title format in the 70s was largely boring as shit and I also know most people here would vehemently disagree with me about it. I'm okay with that. Why get bent out of shape that someone liked whatever the latest WWE offering was?

 

This. Who gives a fuck, really ?

[FMKK]

 

 

Meltzer rates based on his favorites, which I guess we all do. So Owens and Rollins are always higher. Reigns he doesn't really like, so he's always lower. He flat out blamed Sheamus for ending Bryan's career in his review of the tag, so that match wasn't rated high, etc, etc

 

So do a lot of the people who vote in Observer polls. There were people who had those two matches pegged as the best of the night long before the matches actually happened and would have still voted that way if the two matches were god awful and Roman vs Braun (who finished 1 & 2 for most overrated in the year end awards) had been a 5* classic.

Roman I get as his case has been talked about countless times. But I'm shocked about Braun. I know he didn't really reach full awesomeness till this year but even by November he was clearly getting better and showing signs he was very good and worth a push.

He wasn't in Japan or the indies though. Therefore overrated and should never be pushed in the mind of a lot of WON fans.

[The Russian Daydream]

It's like with any sort of media really. You watch different TV news or read different newspapers and they'll give you the same basic stories but with slightly different political slants. The Observer is no different. The factual reporting is what I take from it. The opinions I can consider and agree or disagree with however I please.

[sek69]

 

 

 

Meltzer rates based on his favorites, which I guess we all do. So Owens and Rollins are always higher. Reigns he doesn't really like, so he's always lower. He flat out blamed Sheamus for ending Bryan's career in his review of the tag, so that match wasn't rated high, etc, etc

So do a lot of the people who vote in Observer polls. There were people who had those two matches pegged as the best of the night long before the matches actually happened and would have still voted that way if the two matches were god awful and Roman vs Braun (who finished 1 & 2 for most overrated in the year end awards) had been a 5* classic.

Roman I get as his case has been talked about countless times. But I'm shocked about Braun. I know he didn't really reach full awesomeness till this year but even by November he was clearly getting better and showing signs he was very good and worth a push.

He wasn't in Japan or the indies though. Therefore overrated and should never be pushed in the mind of a lot of WON fans.

 

 

 

Braun certainly has risen to the occasion in a big way, but in the beginning it sure looked like it was going to be another typical big green guy getting the rocket strapped to him because Vince reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if he finished high in the Most Improved voting this year.

[stro]

That rocket strap push of doing nothing but beating up actual jobbers from August to January.

[sek69]

He was clearly being positioned as a guy at least being groomed to be the next one for Roman to beat, and in the age of 50/50 booking beating up actual jobbers without having to put over anyone else qualifies as a rocket strap push.

[stro]

Being overrated on the basis of getting a push being nobodies to make you like strong for when the face beats you doesn't seem to make much sense to me, either. It's not like Braun's push was at the expense of the rest of the Raw roster. People were saying he was getting pushed too hard as a 3rd heavy of a stable that always lost just because he was big.

[sek69]

Interesting tidbit from the 4/17/2000 WON just posted to the site:

 

 

The San Antonio Express-News ran a story about Shawn Michaels' students and the TWA. Shooter Schultz and Kris Schultz, 25, of St. Louis and American Dragon is Brian Danielson, 18, from Washington who was an honors student in college who quit to train under Michaels. Danielson in the article bragged about the fact he had already suffered three concussions in three months in the ring

 

[stro]

I posted that on Wreddit and of course got downvoted, with people saying no one knew about concussions back then. In 1999. Even after CTE had been covered with dementia pugilistica having been talked about since the 1920s, and the preponderance of NHL/NFL athletes being forced to retire due to concussions and post-concussion syndrome throughout the 90s and some as early as 1980, and the WWF actually running a concussion/PCS angle with HBK in 1995, plus wrestlers like Bret Hart being forced to retire in 2000, people genuinely seem to think no one knew about concussions and their impact until a few years ago. It's bizarre. Nevermind the fact that young children who have never heard the word concussion know that hitting your head is bad and you should avoid it.

 

Bryan seeing concussions as a badge of honor during training sheds some light on the rest of his career and why even after being forced to retire due to concussions, he still seems to talk about them like badges of honor and clearly still has plans to resume his in ring career after his WWE contract is up.

[sek69]

I think knowledge of concussions (which goes back practically to the dawn of time) gets confused with newer revelations about long term effects and things like CTE. Sure, even cavemen probably knew that getting hit in the head is bad, and that repeated head trauma can lead to bad things, but it shouldn't be glossed over the lengths sports leagues like the NFL in particular went to fudge the data. Up until recently, things like post concussion syndrome was seen as something that primarily only happened to boxers and some unlucky football players like Troy Aikman and Steve Young. It was really only in 2002 when Mike Webster died and Dr. Omalu started making direct connections did everyone start to realize the long term damage of head trauma past the concussions themselves.

 

So it wasn't "no one knew about concussions", but more "no one really knew how fucked up people with multiple concussions would get later in life until someone not in the pocket of the NFL did research".

[stro]

There were like 15 famous NFL players (and plenty of ones no one remembers) that retired between 1993-2000 due to concussions. And an insane amount of NHL players in the same time.

[sek69]

Right, and at the time most people thought they went on to live relatively normal lives in retirement once they weren't getting their brains bounced around anymore. Then we found out that wasn't the case in most of those. That's the truly scary part, that guys like Bryan seem to honestly thing their brains have healed completely and the odds are heavily against that being the case.

[rzombie1988]

I posted that on Wreddit

Wreddit and the site as a whole is pretty bad. The popular opinion wins out every time and people who have just been watching wrestling for a year or two are determining who the best talent are. The whole set up of the downvoting system is constantly abused as well.

[sek69]

Literally the only reason I ever go there is because I have the ongoing list of WWE Network additions bookmarked. I think I clicked on a discussion once and noped the fuck out in record time.

[The Thread Killer]

Right, and at the time most people thought they went on to live relatively normal lives in retirement once they weren't getting their brains bounced around anymore. Then we found out that wasn't the case in most of those. That's the truly scary part, that guys like Bryan seem to honestly thing their brains have healed completely and the odds are heavily against that being the case.

 

Chuck Liddell is reportedly going through something similar now. After years of having a chin of iron and knocking everybody the F out, he suffered a couple of brutal knockouts of his own, and sadly, by the end of his career, he was pretty much getting knocked out when a stiff breeze came along.

 

Rumor has it that he apparently feels all better now and wants to fight again, despite the fact that he is the only person on the planet who thinks that is smart, or safe.

[joeg]

I posted that on Wreddit and of course got downvoted, with people saying no one knew about concussions back then. In 1999. Even after CTE had been covered with dementia pugilistica having been talked about since the 1920s, and the preponderance of NHL/NFL athletes being forced to retire due to concussions and post-concussion syndrome throughout the 90s and some as early as 1980, and the WWF actually running a concussion/PCS angle with HBK in 1995, plus wrestlers like Bret Hart being forced to retire in 2000, people genuinely seem to think no one knew about concussions and their impact until a few years ago. It's bizarre. Nevermind the fact that young children who have never heard the word concussion know that hitting your head is bad and you should avoid it.

 

Bryan seeing concussions as a badge of honor during training sheds some light on the rest of his career and why even after being forced to retire due to concussions, he still seems to talk about them like badges of honor and clearly still has plans to resume his in ring career after his WWE contract is up.

 

Yeah you are wrong. People knew that concussions could cause your head to hurt for days, they didn't know concussions affected mood and cognitive function for months, years or an entire lifetime. I'm guessing you are really young and so you were never told to just walk it off.

 

As somebody who played sports back in the 90s/ early 00s and coaches high school sports now, let me tell you its night and day how they treat concussions, especially at the youth and high school level. Back when I played high school ball I probably had 7ish concussions in between high school and college, 4 were diagnosed by a team doctor or a trainer.

The method of diagnosing the concussion back then (all of 15 years ago) went something like this-

Doctor or trainer - "you were out for a little bit can you move?"

Player- "yeah"

Doctor or trainer - "your eyes are all over the place, do your feel like you may throw up?"

***player throws up***

Doctor or trainer- "what day is today?"

Player- "I don't know"

Doctor - "he probably has a concussion, probably cant practice for a day or two"

And that was only if you were lucky enough to have a trainer or team doctor in your program. If not, you just got called a pussy and were told to get back to work.

 

Each concussion I sat out until game day, then played. And I looked like a pussy for missing a few practices when it hurt to be in the sunlight. Now there are legit concussion protocols. From the NFL on down to youth league. And concussion protocols at least with the sports I'm familiar with are far more extensive than the take a day or two off back when I played. Prior to the season each player has a test of baseline cognitive function done. This basically assesses where somebody's cognitive function is prior to a concussion so that when they try to take the same testing after a helmet to helmet hit and can't put the square peg in the square hole you know something is off. Also scans are done before the season to match up to the scans done after an injury. Back in my day a really bad concussion could cost a player a couple of weeks on the field, now that we know more about the extent of concussions, a really bad one can cause an athlete to withdraw from all of his classes and take a medical redshirt. 10 years ago it was unheard of for a player to take a medical redshirt due to a concussion. If somebody had 3 concussions in a single season maybe, but now its common place. Also high school teams are required to have an athletic trainer at every single practice for specifically so that if a concussion occurs the student athlete is protected and some asshole coach (ie me) doesn't just tell the poor kid to walk it off. Also for the first time since the 1940s started teaching tackling with head behind to protect

[stro]

I had a concussion in 4th grade (over 20 years ago) and I wasn't allowed to participate in recess for 3 weeks. Not even a sport. RECESS.

[NintendoLogic]

Troy Aikman sustained a concussion in the NFC championship game in 1994 and started in the Super Bowl the next week.

[joeg]

I gotta stop responding to stro at 2 in the morning... I sound like a crazy person who had a lot of concussions

[Coffey]

I gotta stop responding to stro at 2 in the morning... I sound like a crazy person who had a lot of concussions

 

We've all been there. Not responding to stro, but just posting when we should probably already be in bed.

 

 

or posting when you're maybe not entirely sober & perhaps being more irrationally angry than you should be...

 

[joeg]

Not angry I just don't think what I wrote makes any sense like at all. and I def had been out til late ...

[Coffey]

Sorry, I meant me with the angry part. My writing isn't the best.

[Loss]

I don't think Braun is overpushed at all. I would have voted Bray Wyatt. But I think the logic in selecting him is not so much that he's awful, but in the continued frustration toward WWE's lack of a level playing field, where even if he wasn't any good, he would get numerous chances to get over because of his size, where someone smaller who didn't have a push work out once would really struggle to get the opportunity again.

[JNLister]

On the concussions point, a lot of the recent research/what we know now wasn't so much "blows to the head are bad" -- which is kind of obvious -- but rather that suffering a second concussion while you are still recovering from a previous one significantly magnifies the chances of the damage being more serious or permanent.

 

That's particularly relevant to pro wrestling where the schedule and the nature of repeating spots/routines means that if you suffered a concussion from a particular spot (table match bumps in Chris Nowinski's case), there's a good chance you'd suffer a repeat one within a few days.