goc

I think I'd rather be Bryan and hidden in the midcard IC title scene than be in Randy's position of being involved in the worst storyline in the company. I think they handled his return even worse than Bryan's although the consequences aren't really that big a deal. But they could have had a very hot return with Randy vs. The Authority but they are doing an awful drawn out "Randy pretends to be with the Authority" deal that absolutely no one is buying into. They should be pushing Bryan above Randy but they aren't exactly doing good things for Randy or Seth Rollins right now either. They just have a terrible creative team that hasn't booked anyone well over the past year except for Rusev and Brock Lesnar. They are at 1997-1998 WCW levels of completely wasting a very talented roster.

And for what it's worth, Paul scripts his own promos, Lesnar could have gotten away with demanding that he'd do his own. Which again goes back to the point, they bent over backwards to appease him by bringing in someone who wanted no part of returning any time soon, and while the hatchet was easily buried at the point of his return, it does seem to speak to Lesnar having a lack of self awareness or social skills to consider the factors behind Heyman's departure at the end of 2006, and realize that it is a subject that probably should have been drawn out, and done with more tact (i.e. Triple H opening conversation channels for a possible HOF induction) than just a spur of the moment demand. I mean, think about it. A guy gets fired due to one last clash with management, after YEARS of constant butting heads and clashing egos with those above you. Then 5 years later, with the same people in charge, the company decides "you know, we really could use that guy back, even though we both were dicks and hate each other." Simply because the guy's protegee gets hired by the company and "demands" that the guy get a job (and not a "if I have a job, then you'll have one" deal). Sure hatchets can get buried, but only in entertainment, and sports (see Martin, Bill and Steinbrenner, George) would it be that fast, but you'd think in real life versions of that scenario, things like that would take weeks, maybe months of ego massaging negotiations, and not spur of the moment "GET HIM HERE NOW" demands. This seems like a really silly complaint to me. Why should it bother you that Heyman & the McMahons were able to just get over their issues? I don't see why they would have needed months for this if they are grown, professional adults who are more interested in doing business than holding on to old grudges. Vince has shown himself to be quite capable of doing that. You can say he does it when there is money to be made but sometimes there isn't even any money to make like him bringing Sable back in 2002 or 2003. I think as much as people are ready for him to "just die already' it's something that is going to be sorely missed when he's gone because I don't think HHH is that same kind of guy.

I am not sure if that is Brock not wanting to do the talking segments so much as not wanting to deal with them heavily scripting him and all the bullshit that goes with it. He is a pretty good talker when he wants to be, he was very good at it in his UFC days.

How does this compare to 09 ECW? I think had they developed the 3rd brand as something NEW instead of calling it ECW they could have already built it up to where NXT is now YEARS ago. By 2008 the talent was there to be a viable touring group for small arenas with some key veterans working with new guys but they had already tried running ECW as a standalone touring act in 2006 and it bombed because it wasn't ECW.

I have been TRYING to get myself back into watching Southeastern, and I really enjoyed the stuff I did watch. But I keep finding myself drifting around my collection at random and so I've been watching some very oddly put together Florida set that jumps all over the place chronologically with seemingly no rhyme or reason. I did see some things in the listings that jumped out at me so I watched an Eric Embry vs. Dory Funk Jr. match that was a pretty good little TV match even if I was disappointed at how short it was. That was probably my fault for expecting too much. The finish was Eric Embry going for a leapfrog but not going high enough and getting his leg clipped by Dory's shoulder leading to the spinning toehold. It was very well executed to the point that I thought Embry had just botched the leapfrog until the spinning toehold. During the match David Von Erich is doing guest commentary with Gordon Solie. This was during his run in Florida where he was learning to work heel, working as the protege of Dory Funk Jr. I thought it was pretty good with Gordon actually. That match was followed by David Von Erich vs. Tim Horner which I thought was legitimately good, and not just "good for an early 80s TV match" I really liked watching David as a heel and I think he might have been more natural in that role than as a babyface.

I am pretty sure it's impossible for Vince to be removed by his family or a Board of Directors. Besides, the HGH thing seems somewhat pointless to mention as I can't think of any good reason a 70 year old person SHOULDN'T be able to use HGH.

I do think he benefits from that period where guys like Hardy, Finlay & Mark Henry were having great matches and turning the perception of WWECW from "shitty ECW-lite" to "a viable 3rd brand and the bridge between developmental and Raw/Smackdown" By the time Christian showed up in ECW, he got to miss most of the backlash of "yea but who cares ECW sucks" that the other guys were dealing with in 2008. Like, I think Matt Hardy was just as good in his ECW run as Christian but one of them is much more heavily pimped and better remembered than the other.

Saw this topic and said "Oh shit I didn't know they ever wrestled each other" but then I read your post and my desire to actually watch the match has now dissipated I guess this just goes on the pile of all those other 1996 Randy Savage matches that look interesting on a match list but are all exactly the same.

It's floating around in pdf form.

He's clearly a wrestling fan, as evidenced by him trying to talk about The Shield breakup on the Daily Show after it happened and no one else giving a shit. I don't know why he would need to rely on an intern who doesn't care looking up things on youtube for him when he already watched this stuff on TV the first time.

I highly doubt his Daily Show team could help him write a promo with a bunch of references to Seth Rollins' past.

The next episode starts in the middle of a tag match between The Super Pro who Les tells us "everyone thinks is Randy Rose" and Ron Bass against Roy Welch ( We get a cut in the tape and immediately start the next match between The Stomper and Charlie Cook. I'm quite alright with that assuming we didn't miss any good Ron Fuller promos. Stomper is apparently the Southeastern champion which I missed last week. Plowboy Frazier is doing guest commentary along with Les & Charlie on this match. Charlie Cook spends a lot of time with Stomper in a headlock. Charlie Cook really kind of dominates this match, continually re-establishing the headlock. Les Thatcher talks about Dennis Condrey "the cousin of The Super Pro" coming to the area soon. That doesn't do much to help The Super Pro keep his secret identity! Stomper finally takes over with some shots to the throat. And sticks with what works: shots to the throat. Charlie Cook starts a comeback which leads to a double knockdown spot where Cook rolls out of the ring. As the ref is counting him out, Don Carson "loads" the boot of The Stomper and when Cook makes it back into the ring, Stomper boots him right in the face and that's all she wrote. Charlie Cook is very good for a wrestler you've never heard of. Looks like this was just a partial episode because we go straight from that match to Les and Charlie, who appear to now be in their new home and away from the Gulf Coast backdrop welcoming us to another episode of Southeastern Championship Wrestling. I'll post the review for that episode probably later today. I believe this is going to be the final appearance of the Gulf Coast Wrestling name as they are fully changed over to Southeastern by the start of the upcoming episode. That cheap little Southeastern sign on front of the desk fell off during the Super Pro/Brad Armstrong confrontation:

Perhaps they are shrewdly trying the old "Brock Lesnar is going to leave without jobbing the belt!" work to get people to cheer Roman at Mania. Convince people that Brock isn't going to lose the belt at Mania and people will pop for the title change. I already have the perfect match finish for that scenario but they'll have to pay me first

It is kind of funny how on the same show that HHH is going off about internet fans, Jon Stewart comes out and cuts probably the best promo on the show and he's nothing but a hardcore fan. Yes, obviously he is an entertainer but the meat of his promo comes from him being a long time fan that remembers the details and the backstory. Something the own company can't be bothered with and actively wants to avoid.

It's kind of sad for me to think about how excited I was about the Network at launch and now I don't even consider re-subscribing. I guess I just thought they would do a lot more with their archive footage. I'm not hurting for wrestling to watch though so I'm not going to just give them my money for something that I was using MAYBE twice a month.

This week's show starts with Charlie Platt along with Les Thatcher~! apparently in the old TV taping location because they are sitting in front of a Gulf Coast Wrestling sign. I am guessing this is from sometime in October 1980 based on when Robert Fuller & Jos LeDuc win the Southeastern Tag Titles (according to OWW at least) The first match this week is Jr. Heavyweight Champion Jerry Stubbs against Ricky Gibson. Stubbs isn't in his bulkier Mr. Olympia days yet but he's still pretty big for a Jr. Heavyweight. This is your classic dominant heel vs a babyface who won't die match. Gibson is all cradles and sunset flips but the formula is a formula because it works. Stubbs misses an elbow off the 2nd rope and that allows Gibson to start a comeback. That's short lived though as Stubbs dodges a dropkick and then they do this cute spot with the referee and Ricky Gibson doing a dropdown but then the referee and Gibson running into each other which allows Stubbs to throw Gibson over the top rope without the referee seeing it. Gibson manages to make it back in before being counted out but then Stubbs gets a rolling scissors (according to Les) and holds the ropes to win the match. Fun little TV match. We're back from commercial with Les Thatcher and Ron Fuller, now in front of a Southeastern backdrop. Les runs down the towns that Southeastern is going to be coming to like Hunstville and Florence. Ron asks Les Thatcher if Florence is a girl. Nevermind that, he's not going to those towns anyway. He's only going to one place:Birmingham, Thursday November 13th. Les Thatcher tries to talk about the other people in the tournament but Ron isn't interested in talking about anyone but himself. He's won every title in the South and now he is going to win the tournament for the Alabama title. He has the Florida title but he keeps it in his closet because it's rinky dink. Ron is 2 for 2 on great promos in his new promotion. Next we go to Charlie Platt with Robert Fuller and his partner Jos LeDuc who are the new Southeastern Tag Team Champions. I suppose they beat The Big C's. Robert is a pretty bland babyface interview unless he's really fired up and Jos LeDuc barely says anything so this isn't much of a promo. The next match is muscled up Mike Masters who I have never heard of wrestling some jobber Charles Oden. I didn't know Chris Masters was a 2nd generation wrestler. Masters doesn't really do anything for me either way and wins with that old school over the shoulder backbreaker submission move. Time for the Personality Profile with Ron Fuller! Fuller says Alabama fans are used to seeing fat wrestlers, skinny wrestlers, guys with no experience, a bunch of garbage but now they are going to see the best wrestlers in the world. And they are all coming to Birmingham for the Alabama Title tournament. He lets us know how often he used to beat guys like Tojo Yamamoto and Jerry Lawler and he will be the man to beat Harley Race for the World Title. Les Thatcher wants to show a film of Ron winning the Florida title but Ron continues his gimmick of stopping that so he can keep talking. Les wants to ask about Ron's brother Robert but Ron isn't interested in talking about that either. This is his Personality Profile and he wants to talk about himself. Les has another chair and has a suprise. Ron thinks it's going to be This is Your Life with a bunch of people he's beaten which he says is a great idea. Instead it's his brother Robert, who Ron says was supposed to be in Oklahoma. Ron isn't happy about Les bringing Robert into his interview time. Ron says that if Robert is going to be in this area, he won't. He says Don Curtis can just tear his contract up because he's out of here. Les asks Robert to explain the problems that he and Ron have. Robert doesn't have time to explain it all but basically he grew up his whole life having to listen to Ron run his mouth with Ron being a bully of an older brother. Robert says Ron is just going to have to get used to wrestling in the same area as his brother because Robert isn't going anywhere. If Ron wants to leave then he doesn't care. Next match is The Mongolian Stomper managed by The Big C (maybe there's only one now after the title change) wrestling former Pittsburgh Steeler Charlie Cook. Stomper tries to jump him early but Charlie Cook turns it around and hits a pair of shoulderblocks that send the Stopmer reeling to the outside. Stomper keeps covering his ears and Charlie Platt lets me know that the Stomper has problems with loud noises. There's a nice gimmick to get a crowd response Charlie Cook continues to impress me with his speed and agility and he gets plenty of offense to not make this a complete squash match. This actually ends in a double countout after Charlie Cook ends up going thru the ropes and Stomper follows him out to keep beating on him. Stomper and The Big C are beating on Charlie Cook outside the ring as the show goes to commercial. We're back from commercial with no word about Charlie Cook or The Stomper. We're at the desk with Les Thatcher talking to the U.S. Jr. Heavyweight Champion Jerry Stubbs. Les talks us back to boxer Archie Moore wanting to win two World Titles in two different weight classes and compares that to Jerry Stubbs being the U.S. Jr Champ also going after the Alabama Heavyweight Title. Stubbs says he is right on the Jr. line at 225. He can go either way. Stubbs hasn't completely lost his hair yet and has a terrible (and hilarious) comb over. November the 13th in Birmingham Alabama, be there! Les Thatcher is one of the best at wrapping up an interview. The main event is The Big C's (so I guess there are still two of them) in a tag match against Jos LeDuc and PLOWBOY FRAZIER. I didn't know the Plowboy ever really ventured out of Memphis. Not sure why one half of the Southeastern Tag Champs is teaming with someone who he isn't champions with but maybe Les or Charlie will let me know. Plowboy does this cool takedown where he drops down on his back and flips over The Big C that I absolutely did not expect. I'm gonna go Gordon Solie here and not bother differentiating between The Big C's. What a great profession wrestling used to be. A guy like Jos LeDuc could just wrestle wherever, going where the money and weather was nice that time of year. I've seen him wrestle in Montreal, Alabama, Tennessee, Florida, Mid-Atlantic, Puerto Rico probably some other places up in Canada. Jos LeDuc starts going for the mask as I wax nostalgic for an era I didn't live through and that's usually your cue for shit to break down. The other Big C comes in and we've got all 4 guys in which allows the ref to miss LeDuc being thrown over the top rope. Frazier gets tied up in the ropes and gets beat on until LeDuc makes the save. He takes off one of the Big C's masks and it's Don Carson under the mask! The Big C's double team LeDuc with Plowboy tied up but Robert Fuller runs in and hits some nasty looking boots to clear the ring. We're back from commercial with Les at the desk along with Jos LeDuc and Robert Fuller. He keeps hyping the Alabama State Title tournament and then gets Robert's thoughts on the tournament. Robert continues to not really do anything for me in his babyface promos. Les asks LeDuc about the possibility of facing Robert in the tournament. LeDuc never gives his opponent any quarter and if he faces Robert in the tournament "Robert, I'm sorry." Even as a babyface Jos LeDuc comes off as totally unhinged. After that we go to the desk with Les & Charlie signing off and letting us coming up soon we are going to see 3 World's Champions: Harley Race, The Great Moolah & World Jr. Champ Les Thornton. Someone comes out from the back to tell Charlie Platt that he got a phonecall that Ron Bass is healing from the injuries he received from Jos LeDuc in Mobile and will be back soon. Charlie and Les give a recap of the matches that took place on the show and then welcome us to join them next week. Charlie Platt and Les Thatcher are one of the most underrated announce teams ever because I never hear anyone put them out there in the discussion of best announce teams and I personally would put them up against ANY team for calling a TV show and getting over all the wrestlers and the storylines and Les is right up there with Lance Russell at being able to keep an interview moving and focused.

Trying to get back into watching this after essentially stopping all other wrestling watching to get a lucha ballot done and then just jumping around my collection at random for a few weeks. I jumped forward a little bit out of the Knoxville Jim Barnett Southeastern to the first Ron Fuller Southeastern TV show from Alabama. This was a little boring at times as they spent a lot of time talking about the new names coming in and the tournaments and new promoter Don Curtis taking over. But the show featured a pretty good little non title tag match between Charlie Cook and Ricky Gibson against The Big C's (and I don't even really know what the C is for) Charlie Cook is a former Pittsburgh Steeler who looks kind of old but is actually pretty darn good and athletic in the ring for a guy his size. Ricky Gibson is the older brother of Robert Gibson. The other highlight of the show was Ron Fuller cutting a promo introducing himself to the people of Alabama that was easily the best promo I've ever heard from Ron Fuller. The setup to this segment is that Charlie Platt is going to show a video of Harley Race beating Terry Funk for the World Title after hearing some words from Ron Fuller. But every time Charlie tries to interrupt to go to the tape Ron cuts him off and keeps going on about himself until finally saying he's ready to let Charlie show the film at which point we are informed that there is no longer enough time to show the clip. I will probably end up cutting this promo out and putting it on youtube I liked it so much. Here it is:

I wonder how much of that promo Jon Stewart came up with himself. It almost seemed to have too much continuity and thought put into it for it to have come from their normal writing crew. But I'm happy for Jon, he is obviously a long time fan and I'm sure that was awesome for him.

No, it was pretty much just because that's how Bischoff did it on Nitro. Plus it was early on in the brand split days and I think they still cared about trying to make the shows different.

I don't think WWE would really lose anything except a huge talent expense if Brock were to leave. They don't know how to book him effectively as a part time attraction and while I appreciate them trying to use Brock to build Roman Reigns as their next big star, it feels really late at this point. Like, he should have put over Sheamus or Ryback 2 years ago instead he had to come in and immediately lose to Cena and then waste way too much time in a HHH feud. His matches have mostly been good to REALLY good and his TV segments are usually a lot of fun but has he REALLY enhanced the overall product? He isn't there enough and they haven't been smart enough to figure out a way to have him on TV every week without having him actually be there in the arena so they go seemingly months at a time barely mentioning him.

I am up to episode 5 with the Boyle Heights Street fight between Puma & Big Ryck. The show is growing on me more and more but I really don't like the announcing or the crowd. I may start watching the Spanish version because I watched Episode 4 in Spanish and found myself much less annoyed even if I didn't understand as much. But the crowd..geez. They're chanting this is awesome while Prince Puma is taking a 3 on 1 beatdown! I do enjoy the overall presentation with the super slick looking backstage stuff and the gritty dark arena. It's like someone played too much Def Jam Vendetta and decided to make a TV show that way. The "rusty" trash cans and ladder were a nice touch in the Boyle Heights Street Fight.

From Gary Hart's autobiography: