Loss

I know they don't want to upload more classic footage since they say no one watches it. I feel like basing content decisions on what's already being viewed is faulty logic that almost ensures a permanent status quo, but if it is what it is, they should offer a deluxe package that has regular uploads of classic stuff. I'd pay up to $20 a month for it depending on how aggressive they were about adding more content.

The kayfabe breaking is what it is. To me, the bigger offense is the heavy-handedness of it all. It comes across really desperate and calculated. As I mentioned in the other thread, there is too much reflection on self, the importance of self, and self's place in the WWE cannon. The motivation of almost every character in the company -- first and foremost -- is to make history. Hey, we reflect on a lot of that stuff here, and if I was a wrestler, I'd probably be interested in my place in history too. But my character wouldn't obsess over it like that. No moments or careers get to speak for themselves anymore. To me, the post-match last night represented that ("We're so moved by our own artistic statement that we can't even hide tears") more than it was a defiant statement that wrestling is fake. I've come to accept it as part of WWE so much that it didn't ruin the show last night or anything like that, but it would have been better without that. We should be congratulating them on a great match instead of them congratulating themselves. And as much as I did like that match, we've all seen much better matches without the immediate and public reflection on a job well done tacked onto the end. Wrestlers used to get heat for being too openly proud of their matches in the locker room -- now they even do it on camera. Phrases like "Match of the Year" and "Wrestlemania moment" are for nerds like us -- they should never be uttered on a wrestling show. Postmodernism and wrestling are strange bedfellows.

Dave didn't just praise Bayley's potential -- he and Bryan talked about her up to the point that in some ways, she may be their best bet in replacing John Cena. I think they meant in terms of PR/charity work, appeal to kids and merchandise sales.

The bigger issue than the kayfabe breaking is the constant reflections on self and importance of self and role in history of self. The unspoken motivation for wrestlers has always been titles and money, but now it seems to be more that everyone wants to secure their place in the WWE canon. That plague extends far beyond this show.

I really loved this show and it's not often I say that about a 2015 show. Even the matches that I don't think were *great* were just right for their booking goal and spot on the card.

Who cares why Punk brought it up, though? He's either right or he's wrong. His motives for doing so are between him and his God.

When I think of Edge, the first thing that always comes to mind is getting bug-eyed, pulling his hair back and dancing like he has to pee really bad while waiting to spear someone. The second thing is endless skits with Vicki Guerrero and Lita. So I think that's where the perception about his acting comes from.

The messenger matters in letting you know how much you should look into something before you accept it. If someone who works for Korman said the same thing you would do less research to confirm it than CM Punk saying the same thing. I get that. However, sometimes "consider the source"-type responses bug me because when a broken clock type makes comments that have merit, the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater. Yes, my goal was to see exactly how many cliches I could include in one sentence. When CM Punk says something critical of WWE or someone associated with WWE, I hope one day we can get past that it was CM Punk that said it and debate what he actually said on the merits.

FWIW, it was reported late last year that HHH and Stephanie see their characters very different from how Vince sees them and decided to stop fighting him on it. So I don't know that Stephanie is acting like she would if it was fully her call. I don't know that she isn't either, but I don't know that she is.

El-P, are you going to listen to the shows? If not, you're not allowed to post in here anymore. This is a thread not about Flair, it's about reactions to things said on the podcast about Flair. Brainfollower is engaging points made on the show, so he's fine.

In my ideal world, the messenger never matters. At least not in an adverse way.

His favorite photos and the stories behind him. Items donated by wrestlers or wrestling companies would be fun too.

I'm not even sure when the religious fundamentalist line was said, but it was quoted in an old issue of Matwatch.

Wrestling announcing for the absurdists among us.

Based on rewatching everything from the 1990-1999 YBs that I originally had at ****1/2+, here are my ***** and ****3/4 matches from the 1990s. Unfortunately, the Word doc that had a lot of my updated comments in it is saved on my Mac that went kaput a few months ago. Perhaps one day there will be a way to recover it, or I may just have to rewatch all the stuff. ***** Jumbo Tsuruta vs Mitsuharu Misawa (AJPW 09/01/90) Nobuhiko Takada vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara (UWF 10/25/90) El Dandy vs El Satanico (EMLL 12/14/90) Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJPW 04/20/91) Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat (AJPW 05/25/92) El Dandy vs Negro Casas (CMLL 07/03/92) Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 10/21/92) Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Mayumi Ozaki & Dynamite Kansai (AJW 11/26/92) Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori (AJW 04/02/93) Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Mayumi Ozaki & Dynamite Kansai (AJW 04/10/93) Steve Williams vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 08/31/93) Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 06/03/94) Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue (AJPW 04/15/95) Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 06/09/95) El Samurai vs Shinjiro Otani (NJPW 01/21/96) Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda (FMW 05/05/96) Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (WWF 11/17/96) Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 12/06/96) El Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas vs El Dandy (CMLL 12/06/96) 10-man tag (Michinoku Pro 12/16/96) Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 01/20/97) Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (WWF 03/23/97) Yoshiko Tamura vs Toshie Uematsu (GAEA 07/21/97) El Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas (CMLL 09/19/97) Kiyoshi Tamura vs Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (RINGS 06/27/98) Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama (AJPW 07/24/98) Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 10/31/98) Kiyoshi Tamura vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto (RINGS 06/24/99) ****3/4 Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (NJPW 01/31/90) Ric Flair vs Lex Luger (WCW 02/25/90) El Dandy vs Angel Azteca (EMLL 06/01/90) Pirata Morgan vs El Faraon (EMLL 11/16/90) War Games (WCW 05/17/92) Rick Rude vs Ricky Steamboat (WCW 06/20/92) Vader vs Sting (WCW 12/28/92) Stan Hansen vs Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 02/28/93) Aja Kong vs Dynamite Kansai (AJW 08/25/93) El Satanico vs Pirata Morgan (AAA 11/26/93) Manami Toyota & Akira Hokuto vs Toshiyo Yamada & Kyoko Inoue (AJW 12/10/93) - Both matches Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 05/21/94) Rey Misterio Jr. vs Juventud Guerrera (AAA 11/30/94) Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 01/19/95) Mayumi Ozaki, Cutie Suzuki, Candy Okutsu & Sumiyo Toyama vs Dynamite Kansai, Devil Masami, Hikari Fukuoka & Hiromi Yagi (JWP 03/17/95) Kenta Kobashi vs Akira Taue (AJPW 07/24/95) Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Otani (NJPW 02/09/97) 16-man Cibernetico (CMLL 04/18/97) Tsuyoshi Kohsaka vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto (RINGS 04/04/97) Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker (WWF 10/05/97) Kiyoshi Tamura vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto (RINGS 09/21/98) Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 06/12/98) Yuki Ishikawa & Alexander Otsuka vs Daisuke Ikeda & Mohammed Yone (BattlARTS 01/12/99) El Samurai vs Shinjiro Otani (NJPW 06/03/99) 16-man Cibernetico (CMLL 11/26/99)

Terry Gordy did all the stuff you'd want a guy like Terry Gordy to do on paper. He checks off every box I can think of. He's just kinda boring doing it all. He could do everything except captivate.

As soup said, UWFI, not All Japan.

"She just sprayed him in the eyes with that tear gas women use to keep from getting raped!" is an all-time classic line. "Now, let's not bring religious fundamentalism into this, we have enough problems around here" would be my other favorite.

There has to be a way we can get a romantic comedy-style cross country chase with Lana trying to make it to the building in time to stop the wedding.

I still like Jim Ross, but as I've watched more stuff, he's definitely someone with some huge holes in his game, where I used to see him as the perfect wrestling announcer. That old UWF stuff -- how much can one guy yell? A lot, apparently.

Cancer often means death and sadness. Bad guys love that stuff. EDIT: I'll also reverse the question and ask since when have bad guys been champions of worthwhile social causes?

I had the same thoughts. Cena took a pretty nasty bump on his neck and head that they had to replay because it happened during a commercial break. During a commercial break. I don't get John Cena taking bumps like that at this stage of his career at all, especially during a commercial break to no real reaction. I think they could have a pretty entertaining bullshit match with all the bodies at ringside they could use for heel embarrassment spots, even if the match eventually settled into something more representative of how matches are usually worked now. I actually thought they had a perfectly okay match anyway, but no wonder the crowd was so dead for it. Sasha Banks sure came across as the most over person on the roster, though. I think WWE pictured Charlotte as the next big star and Sasha as the next great mechanic. They haven't fully accepted yet that the current WWE fanbase seems to want the mechanics to be the big stars.

I still struggle with heels wearing shirts in support of fighting breast cancer, but I realize it's a different era, so I'm not complaining or saying they should do something different. I'm just saying I struggle with it. It's jarring.

Here's an interesting question that I don't even know the answer to. If Bryan had been around every week since Mania, would he have even had a title program with Rollins by now? I'm inclined to say no.

He offered for someone to come on for Part 5 and debate him. There's a thread here where people can disagree. Can we get past the idea of this podcast as an example of being unwilling to hear dissenting views?