Victator

I actually love every one of those teams. Trying to say the Steiners are better is a joke. At that point you might as well rank Rob Van Dam above Jerry Lawler. Steiners had no sense of structure and just run thru spots, leaving it up to the other teams to corral them. The Road Warriors and Nasty Boys are way better and I would not put them above Demolition either. Hell I love the Steiners and enjoy watching them maul guys. But what is the argument for them being better? They had the advantage of working WCW and NJPW and could not outdo Demolition. They are just spot guys. Samoan Swat Team is a damn good team. They have a great arsenal of moves, while actually being able to structure a match. But I don't think they are better. Nobody really has any arguments against Demolition's work. Me and Matt have went over why we consider them great over and over. Nobody disputes it, they just ignore it.

Demolition are better than Rockers, Steiners, SST and Footloose (who I was not overly impressed with). Equal to RnR, Midnights and Arn/Tully. None of those teams could equal Demolition in the WWF environment and Demolition would be of easily been great in NWA/AWA/WCCW Etc. Rockers match from MSG is a great match. Hart Foundation match from SS 88 is. Also the Arn/Tully MSG match. But this point we are running laps.

From what I have seen, Bruno was a hell of a brawler.

That is easy when you do not want to find it. The Rockers match was all Demolition. Hell even Shawn Micheals admits that. I don't think there is a real validity to this, regardless of the Demos/Busters match you are talking about. The MSG match was about Demolition not wanting to win the titles but wanting to crack skulls. The Demos were not suppose to be underdogs, when Tully and Arn were in control, they were trying to contain Demolition. I don't even know how you can think there was no emotion in the match. It was all worked around Demolition being pissed off over losing the belts.

I heard it is all staged.

There was this Ren and Stimpy cartoon where they were wrestlers. They get the shit kicked out of themselves until one of the wrestlers looks at the clock and says. "It's time to lose the match." Then they fall over and lose. I think Cena and Hogan occasionally fall/fell into that trap. Where they go into the comeback to easily. About the only think that makes me give Angle a pass, is I'm sure he could get hit by a truck, bounce up and Angle Slam it. Cena is much better overall, and an all time great wrestler. But he was pretty bad from til 04. I would probably take Angle's worse stuff over that.

Okay I recognize that name now.

Who was that?

I prefer the Powers of Fear. Though kudos on booking them as a trio.

I know when I saw Punk live, he was just as over as John Cena. Maybe a hair or two beneath him, but it is a Randy Savage/Hulk Hogan or Ultimate Warrior/Hogan scenario.

I think you are thinking of the match for WCW US belt where Kane actually tapped out to the ankle lock.

Yeah that is the sickest bump I have ever seen. He just splats across the floor. Also that is a crazy feat of strength from Big Show. The match is really worked well, with Kane playing an overmatched underdog face. I said it somewhere else. But I think Studd gets a bad rap unfairly. He is not great, but he had decent timing and knew what to do in the ring and when. He could also throw a cool looking suplex.

More because I can't afford another laptop monitor.

That was a great promo Cornette cut after the match. Maybe one of his best. The list from the other thread. *You can throw in any of the matches from the Kane/Punk/Bryan feud to the list. As far as promos and stuff go, Kane was obviously carrying it by himself. Because AJ has become unwatchable now.

Once again I only brought that up in comparison to the Shawn/Kane match that is out and out awful. Which was bad by even Kane standards. If Kane feels like working, he is very good. If he wants to dog it, nobody can get anything decent out of him. But I really do not feel like talking about anything with the Von Kramers and Coffeys of the world. I am really glad people are enjoying the Kane/Vader match. It is something I am really glad I went back and reevaluated. My favorite part of the match was Paul Bearer beginning to panic, when it seems like Vader might win. I would check out the Fully Loaded match with Big Show. Kane put in a great performance playing Spike Dudley for Big Show.

I listed sixteen matches earlier, some of the last five were simply better than the Shawn/Kane match. I have wrote about some of them in the past. But it feels futile when it feels like you are bringing it before some wrestling Truman Capote, who is just waiting to take a piss on it. I wrote this on my blog about the Jerishow/Kane and Taker match I wrote this about Vader vs Kane from NWO 98 Those are write ups I have on my blog. Some like Kane vs Show I never had a chance to put up.

Dude he was just joking.

I'm not even defending Kane here. Just that Shawn match is one of the worst matches Shawn or Kane ever had. I think people know me well enough to know I do not shit on matches lightly. I try to find something good in everything I watch. This match had nothing. It was poorly thought out from a story stand point. Shawn's offense was terrible. It was a very bad night for both of them. I was watching it with my kids and even they did not like it. Which is something because the little one is a Kane fanatic.' Oh I do not really care for either of those. Just they are way worse than the Shawn match. The Pac match had its moments, but I thought the story telling was too screwed up. My main point is if a match is bad by Kane standards, then no way is it on Shawn's highlight reel.

Yeah sure

I was about to go edit it out, sorry.

I'm disregarding your opinion completely for just tossing away the backlash 08 match like that. It's great. That you come off like a rude jerk for no reason doesn't help. Seriously read through this note from start to bottom and really take a look at why people are saying what they're saying. It could just be that you look at wrestling differently than a lot of us do. But you're just listing off matches or dismissing them with a few words. Wasn't one of the big arguments in this note that we SHOULD push Shawn with great matches, because if we break him down with things he does well and things he does poorly, it doesn't look nearly as good on paper as if you look at his "great matches?" Um as 'Dr. Reverend Victator' didn't put any reasons why theses matches were better than the the Shawn match. I didn't feel i had to go in-depth on why i disagreed with his choices, and i choose to answer in joke form. Reading back over, the last line does come across a bit jerky, but then i did put a smiley face to show humour. You did not state a single thing that made the Shawn/Kane match good.

Well lets get a few things straight dummy. The SHAWN MATCH IS FUCKING AWFUL. Okay see I could of found some legit shitty Kane matches and shoved them in there. The Shane Mcmahon matches were better than that shitty ass Shawn Micheals match. But lets do this. WRONG The match told a good story with good selling from both men. Oh and Vader's shit looks like it hurts. No dummy, I actually watch matches instead of waiting for Scott Keith star ratings. Kane put in a great performance playing Spike Dudley for Big Show. They actually tell a good story about Kane being overpowered and out monstered for the first time. Also they actually look like they are hurting each other. As opposed to a balding, gimpy pretty boy throwing awful looking chops for twenty minutes as Kane tries to sell it. Shit I don't like a single other Kane vs Show match. They usually have terrible chemistry working against each other. But this match is damn good. But then again I watched it. Summerslam 1999 Or maybe I actually watched the match. Which is a very good short TV match with Viscera hitting some nice power spots on Kane and then bumping big for the chokeslam. Of course I actually watched the match. Its a million times better since the offense looks good and Kane selling for Finlay does not look ridiculous. Far better since Mankind makes Kane look like an actual monster, while getting himself over. As opposed to forcing a monster to sell for shitty limp wristed chops. Which makes both matches far better than the Shawn match, which is awful. One of the worst matches either Kane or Shawn have ever had. As for the remaining five. Kane vs Chris Jericho Survivor Series 2000 Kane vs Edge from November 98 Kane vs Triple H Judgment Day 02 Kane vs Rhyno from April 01 Kane vs Rob Van Dam Summerslam 03 I could not finish before since my nephews were leaving.

It would not worked in the context Sting did. The nWo angle would not have worked nearly as well without Sting. You needed a WCW true believer to counteract the nWo and act as a victim. I don't think Savage, Luger or the Steiners could have worked in that role like Sting did and I don't think people would of been as anxious for them to get revenge. He deserve a lot of credit for that entire year. Just based on the goodwill he generated over the years.

I can name twenty Kane matches better than that. That Shawn match was one of his worst ever. Please do vs Vader No Way Out 98 vs Steve Austin night after King of the Ring 98 vs Big Show Fully Loaded 99 with X-Pac vs Undertaker and Big Show with Undertaker vs Big Show and Chris Jericho Smackdown before Survivor Series 2009 vs Undertaker Night of Champions 2001 vs CM Punk Smackdown last month with Big Show vs Viscera and Val Venis some Raw in early 06 vs Kurt Angle Smackdown episode in late 2001 vs Fit Finlay September 14 2007 Smackdown vs Mankind Survivor Series 97 vs Mankind January 11 1999 Raw vs Albert Smackdown in 2001 This is the first match they had that Kane won. vs Umaga 10/9/06 vs Chavo Guerrero Backlash 2008 I can post the last five later if you want. Took a little longer since I wanted to check matches I had not seen in awhile. I also wanted to keep it to actual good matches, not just better than the Shawn match.

I can name twenty Kane matches better than that. That Shawn match was one of his worst ever.