JerryvonKramer

Tommy Rogers interview is legit fantastic.

Damn, I love that album too. Didn't draw the connection. Reading about this more on Classics (http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=129396;p=0), apparently Ernie Ladd said he got it from Terry Funk who said he took it from Johnny Cash. Ernie Ladd is so cool. The moment when the GCW crowd busts out the "egg-sucking dog" chant during the Funk and Ole run-in is one of my favourite ever chants.

Steven needs to turn his mic up and everyone else down ... he can do this by taking Skype off autotuning and manually putting himself up and everyone else down. I record with me almost full and everyone else on half. It's a strange quirk that the person recording comes through quieter. Even though I don't really like Chris Adams, I listened to this whole show and enjoyed it. I think Grimmas has done a really good job of keeping this "Super Show" up every week while keeping it varied and interesting and somehow not overlapping too much with all of the shows his guests come from.

I don't think Vader counts.

You guys gave Yokozuna a very rough ride here, seemed overly harsh to me to call him a "horrible worker" and extremely high on Lesnar.

http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-63-superbrawl-i/ Chad and Parv review Superbrawl I. - [3:22] Wrestling Observer and PW Torch roundup: wacky new characters coming in, will Sid job?, the Bull Drop Inn, and Brian Pillman in a rat costume. - [31:30] Review of Superbrawl I: where does Superbrawl rank in the WCW PPVs?, *squwwaakk* its Fantasia!, Dan Spiveys football career, the shocking debut of Oz, and some disagreements on the much-hyped Sting and Luger vs. The Steiners match. - [2:16:19] End of show awards The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, you’ll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past.

Just wanted to chime in to say that this is a welcome return (even if I never listen to shows about current stuff); this is one of my own personal favourite podcasts.

The ones that spring to mind are the massive 20-man tag-team eliminations from the first two, and the one featuring the Jumping Bomb Angels. Then ... probably Million Dollar Team vs. Dreamteam from SS 90, which is notable for the DiBiase vs. Bret Hart mini-match at the end. From that same show, The Visionaries vs. The Vipers is fun too.

Whatever you want OJ, whatever is more interesting.

Is Santo demonstrably a bigger star than Mascaras, Dylan? Just asking.

Here is the shortlist, in my view: The Destroyer / Dr. X The Spoiler / Super Destroyer Mr. Wrestling II The Assassin The Masked Superstar And I think someone has to mention Mil Mascaras and Dos Caras. And perhaps as a gimmick, Tiger Mask.

Strictly masks. Between great 70s and 80s wrestlers and lucha workers, there should be more than enough candidates to work with.

So many contenders, who'd be your pick and why?

Pics from MACW circa October 1981: Piper says he's taken Wahoo to the trash. Generic and dated looking "Wrestling" logo 70s porno star, Frank Monte applies a headlock to Super Destroyer Extreme idiot Leroy Brown Dusty is pleased to have a Walkman Caudle on green screen Frank Monte's brother Flair in his "opulent" boots What a dude!

Time to dive into Mid-Atlantic now, and this show is from October 10th, 1981 ... Bob Caudle and beardless David Crockett host. Coming up later on the show is the NEW World Heavyweight Champion, the Nature Boy, Ric Flair. But who is this now? Banging a bin? It's Roddy Piper! He wants to talk about Wahoo McDaniel. He's riled up. Says something about turning Wahoo's face into a garbage can. "Nothing but a mere morsel of nothingness". 1. Ivan Koloff vs Paul Jones Oh yes, what a feature match-up to start off with on MACW! Ole Anderson is in Ivan's corner here. Ole immediately jumps in the ring and we get an almost instant DQ. Steamboat runs in too and clears house. Ole and Ivan shout at the faces. Well, this was disappointing as the match effectively did not take place.Ole is wearing a biege jacket and a pair of jeans, quite smart by his standards. We're told Jake "the Snake" Roberts is on his way, but first it's Ric Flair, the new world champion. He's wearing a checked tweed-looking jacket. Flair is in Minnesotta Flair mode, subdeud, serious, a sportsman. He wants to do what's best. 2. Wahoo McDaniel & Jay Youngblood vs Jim Nelson & Charlie Fulton "Both these Indians, the blood of these Indians is just boiling" - Caudle. David keeps calling Wahoo "the Super Chief". This Jim Nelson does not appear to be Boris Zuhkov. Youngblood with a big STIFF chop, Wahoo with a STIFFER one. Wow. "Nobody chops like Wahoo McDaniel!" Wahoo works over Fulton's arm. Youngblood takes over. Dropkick. Back to the arm. Irish whip. Chop. Wahoo back in. Headlock takeover. Top wristlock. David: "HEY! They arm doesn't go that way, he's gonna break it" I feel very at home watching Crockett. Nelson tags back in, MASSIVE chop by Wahoo, and another, and another. I love the way it echoes around the studio. Youngblood back in and now he's working Nelson's arm. Nelson actually makes a comeback here, knee to Youngblood's chest and the jobbers take over on offense.Clubbing blows by Nelson but he puts his head down and Youngblood kicks him in the face. Dropkick. Big chop from Wahoo gets the three. I loved how stiff Wahoo was here. A soft-voice over comes now with this really old and generic looking logo with just "Wrestling" written over it. "Hello everybody, this is Billy Powell to remind you that Monday night at the Greensville Auditorium you'll get to see a newcomer, Sgt. Slaughter, who won the US title in a tournament this past weekend. And Sgt. Slaughter will be meeting Sweet Ebony Diamond, and he will lay his newly won US title on the line Monday night. And in our feature main event, the Mid-Atlantic champion, the Russian Bear will take on Ricky Steamboat in another great match." Wow, I'd LOVE to see Ivan Koloff vs. Ricky Steamboat from this timeframe. 3. The Grappler & Super Destroyer vs Frank Monte & Siva Afi The Grappler and Super Destroyer are both, of course, masked. Super Destroyer, I believe, is the legendary Don Jardine aka The Spoiler. The Grappler is Len Denton who was better known in Portland during the 80s. Frank Monte is pretty stacked here and has a good moustache and afro on him. Monte works over the Grappler's arm. Tags in Afi. Headlock takeover. The jobbers seem to be very very competetive in Crockett, more like JTTS. Monte works a headlock on Super Destroyer. Monte looks like a 70s porn star. The masked guys have had nothing so far. Grappler tags in and takes over on offense. Slam on Afi. Chinlock. Super Destoryer tags in, he's a pretty big guy. He gives Afi FIVE elbow drops and covers. Afi gets his foot in the ropes and this PISSES OFF Super Destroyer, who is pretty viscious. He tags out disgruntled and Grappler hits a neckbreaker. Surely, that's it? NO, kick out! Grappler goes for an Atomic drop, REVERSED! Wow, they are working more like midcarders than JTTS, maybe Monte and Afi were higher up the card than I thought. Hot tag to Monte now who is a house of fire. He's taking on all comers. Big backdrop, but Grappler gets a tag as he's coming off the Irish whip. Super Destroyer in, SUPERPLEX! "And you don't get up from that". Wow, this was a pretty good match, about **1/2 and Monte and Afi were surprisingly competitive. Bob Caudle is with Wahoo McDaniel now to talk about Roddy Piper. "He's been telling everyone that I'm a whipped dog. Well do I look like a whipped dog to you? I been laying out in the sun for two weeks, I don't have a scar on me, I'm healed up, and believe me I'm no whipped dog!" Ron Bass comes in now. Bass is the TV champ and a face, he's had the title for a month now. Bad bad Leroy Brown is next in the promo conveyor belt. And he's wearing a construction helmet and a pair of denim dungarees. He looks completely ridiculous. He wants Ole Anderson, Roddy Piper and the big bad himself Ivan Koloff. It seems like Koloff was positioned as the top heel at this point because he's been name checked by every babyface so far. Now it's Dusty Rhodes daddy! He's got a WALKMAN. Ha ha ha. He tells us he's an "electrified funky person daddy". He says that everyone's talking about Ric Flair and he's glad for him, but ... "somewhere down the line, you gotta meet The Dream again daddy". I'm sure he will Dust, I'm sure he will. 4. Ricky Harris vs Dusty Rhodes Strange moment now as Bob Caudle is on green screen with video tape of Dusty Rhodes and his opponent behind him. Dusty shucks and jives. He works Harris's arm, they liked armwork in MACW in 1981. Harris comes back with an elbow to the neck. Hard right by Dusty. Headlock takeover which David Crockett calls a "hip toss". Headlock by Dusty, Harris grabs for the tights. Fist to the forehead by Harris. David is calling Dusty "Stardust". Million dollar elbow for the 1, 2, 3. Quick squash. Commercial message for upcoming events now. The guy on the mic goes to the same barber as Frank Monte, they could be brothers, shades of Ron Burgundy too. One of the interesting matches mentioned is Ole Anderson vs. Ric Flair for the world title. And we're taken to a promo from Flair now standing alongside Johnny Weaver and a guy with a thin weaselly moustache in a white suit and nerdy glasses. Ricky Steamboat is out now to talk about his upcoming match with Ivan Koloff. He says that he kept watching Ivan during a lumberjack match he had recently. Pretty good promo from Steamer here, he calls Ivan "my Russian Bear friend" at one point, lol. 5. Roddy Piper & Ivan Koloff vs Steve Muslin & Ron Ritchie Ivan has his chain. Piper has his bagpipes and he wants to play a small jig for Wahoo McDaniel. The fans boo as he plays these awful bagpipes, what a racket! Piper is a superb dick heel. Meanwhile Ivan is taunting the jobbers with his chain. So Ivan gets a second match tonight after the Jones one? He starts out with Muslin who ALSO has a sleazy moustache, 81 was a banner year for moustaches in the Carolinas. Caudle and David are amazed to see two guys like Koloff and Piper on the same team, what big stars. Ivan works over Muslin and tags out. Piper shouts at him. "SHUT UP". Musling comes back with some good punches. Hip toss. He tags to Ritchie who misses a dropkick. Piper with some aggressive strikes. Ivan in, double stomp. Atomic drop. Knee drop. Knee lift. Tags to Piper. Snapmare. But Hotrod misses a big knee, just a hope spot. Ivan in. Bodyslam. Elbow drop. But he misses a second. Piper in. Big right. Snapmare. Chinlock. Ole Anderson has just walked in. "It's like the Voice of Doom walking in" says David. Muslin and Piper go for a slugfest now, but Piper hits an atomic drop. Ivan in, KNEEDRIVER! That's all she wrote. Impressive showcase for the heels here. Piper throws Ritchie out and they go to beatdown Muslin. Wahoo runs in. 2 vs 1 slugfest. Ivan bails. Piper vs. Wahoo back and forth now. Steamboat hits the ring. The heels take off, including Ole. Caudle is with Ricky Steamboat now, who says that Piper and his friends can say "all they want about the Indian .. but you've just seen a prime example of what that red man can do once he gets going". Steamboat on about an 8.7 for the 81 political incorrectness scale there. Abdullah the Butcher is mentioned as an ally of Piper's who Wahoo is also thinking about. Jake "the Snake" Roberts is also there, young and skinny and in a cowboy hat with a big tash. He doesn't like the sound of any of these. His voice is reedy and southern, he sounds nothing like the Jake we all know and love. Caudle says "see you next week, and so long for now". A little bonus commerical footage now, Frank Monte's brother is with Paul Jones. He's sick and tired of all this with Ivan Koloff. Jones is stoical on the mic. He's not turning on Flair, Snake, Steamboat or Youngblood. Incredibly bland babyface stuff from Jones. Jake and Steamboat come in now. They talk about the tournament. Roberts wants to know why Ole and Gene Anderson haven't been defending their tag titles. Ole has been claiming Gene is hurt. Jake mentions the 30-day rule. 6. Ric Flair vs Billy Starr Flair is wearing "opulent" black and white checkered boots. Bit unusual. Not sure who is on commentary here. I think it's Frank Monte's brother and I *think* Johnny Weaver. They mention that Starr has been having some success recently. Starr takes a bump to the outside and Flair smashes him into the camera stand. Rolls him back in. Atomic drop. Starr comes back a bit, bodyslam. Misses a fistdrop. Barges Flair in the turnbuckle. Flair comes back. Turning into a slugfest. Stalled vertical suplex. Elbow drop. Figure-four and it's all over. I think Flair gave Starr far too much here given that this was meant to be a showcase for the new World Champ. I don't see why he had to give Starr ANYTHING. And now, a GROOVY CAT. What a dude! Who is that? And it's all over. --------- Thoughts: Well, the only thing I can make a fair comparison to at this point is GCW given that the AWA and Florida stuff was not actually TV presentations. There is a lot more in-ring focus and action in Mid-Atlantic than in Georgia. The matches, even against apparent jobbers, go on longer, closer to 8 minutes than the typical 3-minute squash you get on GCW. But then the promos are shorter. There is less of a sense of chaos, but we did get a few run ins. This is just a sample size of one, so can't make too many sweeping statements, but so far: more CAVALRY, babyfaces making saves rather than heel beatdowns, and more babyface promos. The strange thing about the GCW stuff was that all the promos were by heels, well here, the majority of promos, with the exception of Piper, were by babyfaces. Could just be chance, but I'll be keeping an eye on that as I continue through the footage. This was a very easy watch, and the presentation is not a million miles away from what we'd see in Techwood after 85. The flags are there, the podium is there. It's a slightly blander show than Georgia, but we see more wrestling. Would I be going to The Omni or Greensville? Probably to the Omni, but only by a hair, and the prospect of Ivan Koloff vs. Ricky Steamboat is mouth-watering. MVP: Probably Piper, he brought a lot of energy to his match and was a pretty effective heel running down Wahoo while being an annoying sod in general. Ivan looked great once again and both Wahoo and Youngblood looked good as well. Flair I think did not wrestle a very smart match against Starr. It's interesting that Ivan and Ole were on top here in Mid-Atlantic and the same pairing was on top in the GCW stuff from 83. I know Ole was booking Crockett around this time and there is a parallel with the way there are THREE main faces and heels with intertwined storylines, only here we also have Flair on top of that.

After seeing 70s AWA stuff last night, Bobby Heenan has to be in contention.

I should point out that I just want to see him given a fair shake, I don't necessarily think he was a better worker than Vader, just that he *might* have been. For what it's worth, like Chad said, he's been disappointing in general in WWF from 79-81. The Hogan matches are poor.

Andre homework, to do soon: vs. Inoki, 1978: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrsxbGPJyPQ vs. Masked Superstar: vs. Bock: vs. El Canek: vs. Abdullah: vs. Otto Wanz: vs. Crusher Blackwell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDDmplcR6C0

Has anyone watched the 10-disc Andre comp though? There's one: http://www.ioffer.com/i/andre-the-giant-10-dvd-set-pro-wrestling-502131326 Here's another: http://www.wrestletapes.net/bestofandrethegiant.html What are you counting as "peak Andre"?

Because we know he was capable of great matches as we have seen in the New Japan stuff, and there are lots of key matches of his vs. people like Super Destroyer, Masked Superstar and others from the 70s that have the potential to be as great or better. He had matches with Riki Choshu and Inoki and Hansen in New Japan in the 70s. He had matches against Bock in AWA. He had matches with Valentine, Patera and Flair in Mid-Atlantic and elsewhere. He had matches with Ernie Ladd in Mid-South and Florida. Point is, that there is so much of his body of work that either isn't available or hasn't been explored that there's a much more interesting discussion to have over "what good Andre is still out there?" than "was he better than Vader?"

Just for you El-P:

The original thread is called "Best 'Big Man' In History?", and Andre based on every metric is in that discussion. You can't have a particularly informed discussion on work for the reasons I've outlined and so really where can a thread like this lead? If it's Vader vs. the Andre we've all seen from 1987 you might as well make a Ricky Steamboat vs. JYD thread.

Iran and Iraq are deliberately amalgamated for reasons we've discussed before (see Col. Mustafa, Davari). Arabia is where they hail from ultimately, along with all other Middle Eastern types.

He was named as a draw and someone with an exceptional career, in HoF terms rather than as a worker. I made the same argument about footage in that thread.