Ricky Jackson

I know trying to convert anyone to the cause is always an uphill battle, but I wouldn't write off Bruno so definitively without giving his matches and feuds a chance. At least try to find the feud with Larry Z and some of his biggest MSG matches vs Graham, Patera, Arion...

No doubt promoting in the Northeast provided Vince Sr with a better chance of success, but he still had to present a product that captured the public's attention. One could argue New York was a difficult place to draw, because the fans were fickle and hard to impress, plus high rent at MSG meant one needed consistent large crowds to keep going. Prior to Vince Sr promoting MSG in 1956 many others had tried and failed to have sustained success for several years. Top promoters like Fred Kohler and Jim Barnett, and stars like Gorgeous George, Lou Thesz, and Verne Gagne couldn't make a serious go of it. Vince Sr (helped by Toots Mondt, longtime wrestling promoter/booker) got on the air in New York with an exciting product and had great success for many, many years, with only a brief period in 59-60 where he lost promoting control. Vince Jr at his peak in the 80s couldn't match Vince Sr's track record at the Garden as far as consistent sellouts and large crowds go. I cant really comment on the pre-Vince Sr Philly and Boston wrestling scene, but they were definitely huge drawing cities under his promotion. Of course there is no way of knowing, and not to discount Rocca, Rogers, Bruno, Pedro, etc, but I think hypothetically Vince Sr would've been just as successful in say, Portland or Amarillo, due to being able to maximize his draws and present the public with an intriguing product

Vince Sr was a great promoter. Also a great booker. (info on his booking isnt easy to come by, but as far as I know he booked all the major programs and matches during his reign) Vince Jr was a great promoter, and for many years booked like his father, with a babyface superman on top and strong main events. At some point the game changed, mostly because of Vince Jr's success, but also because of changes in culture and technology, the death of WCW, etc, and he stopped booking like his father/like a traditional wrestling promoter

It was. Not sure if he was fired for it or not, but he was definitely raked over the coals Edit: he was released about 2 1/2 months later according to Wikipedia

Sad. Totally torpedoed by the pandemic, although no guarantee it was in for the long haul even in an alternate universe. Will be interesting to read the whole story about the last 10 months eventually Edit: I guess removing all videos isnt officially RIP, but it doesn't look good

I haven't seen the 08 match since the day of the PPV. For whatever reason, the Taker/Edge pairing didnt do it for me at the time. I mean, in general, as a feud. It went on for most of the year and I really began to hate it. (I was actually a weekly WWE viewer of BOTH Raw and Smackdown then, which seems like a million years ago) I remember despising the Hell in a Cell they eventually had, and even writing Meltzer an email basically arguing that he overrated it. (Lol, why the fuck did I care so much?) I'm sure this match was fine, but reading this reminded me of my strange hang up with the feud and basically the last time I was a devoted TV viewer of WWE

I think vs Batista is my all-time favorite Taker Mania match

Or to provide a comparison to Malice at the Palace, the late 70s NHL game where Bruin players went into the crowd to fight fans at MSG https://youtu.be/VMcbdBYuGTE

Yeah, as far as I understand it the Peacock deal is a US thing only. Rest of the world is the Network as usual

Mil Muertes vs Fenix Grave Consequences from Lucha Underground season 1 is by far the best casket match I've ever seen

Yeah, the point about "nothing important happening" at the shows where WWF was invading a territory, and thus being just a one-time curiosity for a lot of folks, makes a ton of sense

Hogan definitely wasn't the crazy sellout after sellout draw that Bruno was in the Northeast. Even Bruno had his down periods though, especially in the 60s when the territory went through a rough patch for about three years or more. But Bruno from 73-77 was just an incredible draw, where a non sellout, at least at MSG, was the exception. Hogan definitely didnt match the track record of his predecessors in the Northeast as far as consistency went, but he drew monster houses with, generally, the most over heels, like Piper, Savage and Orndorff, or the most believably threatening ones, like Andre, Kamala and Bossman. Hogan had many more flop houses than Bruno did in the 70s, but Bruno in the 60s had a weaker ratio, comparable to 80s Hogan actually. Where Hogan has Bruno beat was the impressive TV and PPV (something Bruno didnt have obviously) #s, the crossover beyond wrestling fame, and merchandise (again, something Bruno didnt have). Bruno's 70s smokes Hogan as a monthly draw, peaking with the Larry Z feud in 80, and he is an all-time great based solely on that metric. By the mid-80s the territory went national, so the comparison can be difficult. Hogan didnt have the same schedule as Bruno, as far as working the same cities in the Northeast month after month went. To your original question, I think it had more to do with Hogan working a national schedule than diminishing returns limiting his appearances. And based on a look at Hogan at the Spectrum on the 80s, it seems like it was the drawing power of the heel that increased the house, while a lesser heel (not as a performer, but as a draw), like Patera, Valentine, or Adonis, meant a subpar crowd, not so much that fans were sick of Hulk after seeing him once or whatnot

Vince is one of my least favorite wrestlers ever. I know he was 50-something when he started, but I always thought he moved around, and looked, awkward as hell, and the progression from chickenshit in way over his head to facing Undertaker as an equal (whenever that was, 2003?, and winning to boot) is some of the least believable shit ever

To be fair, at the time I thought the pairing did Shawn no favors. I had no clue who Lothario was back then, though

Yeah, 60s Race and Hennig footage has always been a dream of mine. Just 60s/early 70s in general from all over NA. I'm greedy

No doubt all-time great teams based on rep, drawing, etc. but next to nothing footage wise to judge

I borrowed a copy off a friend 10 or so years ago. I really enjoyed it at the time. A lot of it was because it was a history of wrestling territories such as WCCW, Florida, Australia, etc that I didnt have a lot of knowledge of at the time. A lot of it was because it's a very entertaining read. I know a lot of people have torn it to shreds over the years because of various claims made by Hart in the book. Haven't read it since so I'm not sure how full of bs it is. All I know is that it's super expensive to purchase online (cheapest option on Amazon a ridiculous $950). May be available digitally if you know where to look, no idea

Thanks! Yes, Fraction and Allred's FF is on tap as soon as I conclude Hickman's run. It looks super fun! For the place in my life I'm in right now, the 70s have been the perfect super warm blanket I need. Nothing too serious, let alone deconstructionist or cynical (ok, Gerber could get pretty dark). Just solid superhero stories featuring old pals like Cap, the Hulk, Thor, Spidey, and new faves like Mantis, Demon, Dr. Strange, Valkyrie and Count Dracula. The stories are definitely more verbose than what comes later, but at the same time, the page counts were shorter, so each issue is pretty easy to get though. I've also been pacing myself, trying not to binge too fast, and balancing it out with more modern stuff. Right now I'm reading Englehart's 1976-77 JLA run as a sequal/contrast to his Avengers. Planning on starting Kirby's Challengers of the Unknown, and Ploog and Gary Friedrich's Monster of Frankenstein, as a bit of a companion piece before resuming Tomb of Dracula. Also going to give Brother Voodoo a go, just to satiate more 70s curiosity

Ok, so I've been reading old comics like crazy for about 9 months now. Recently finished/paused some longer runs so I thought I'd give my thoughts on favorites, underrated/overrated, creators, etc over this time. Favourite reads (no particular order) Starlin's Captain Marvel and Warlock: I dunno, I just really like Starlin's art. These two runs aren't perfect but I found them a quick and easy read. Especially liked Captain Marvel. Plus, Death of Captain Marvel graphic novel was great Englehart's Avengers: Had been wanting to read this run (105-150, with plot credits for 151-52, plus four Giant Size issues) for many years, and it did not disappoint. It peaks with the end of the Mantis saga and the wedding of Vision and Scarlet Witch in Giant Size #4 imo. It runs out of a bit of steam for the last 12 or so issues, but George Perez does take over the art chores, so that's a major plus considering it was musical chairs before him Englehart's Dr.Strange 1973-1975: Started this in 2018 and finally finished it last March before my reading explosion. Great stuff, especially with Frank Brunner on art Defenders 1971-1976: Originally I was just going to read Gerber's run (20-41) but decided to start from the very beginning (Marvel Feature #1), and I'm glad I did. Through Thomas, Englehart, Wein and Gerber you get a bunch of fun characters, wacky stories and solid Sal Buschema art. Always put a smile on my face. Maybe my ultimate covid comic comfort food Tomb of Dracula 1972-1974: I've been taking it slow with this series but I've enjoyed almost everything so far (though #24). A few missteps, and writer musical chairs early on, but once Wolfman finds his stride (with the great Gene Colon on art from #1) this is really good. Great cast of characters, with Dracula himself an all-time great New Frontier: Started to dip into comics from approximately 2000-2010 in a bid to catch up on stuff I missed.(will do 2011-? later this year) This is a great series, and a love letter to 50s-60s DC Unstable Molecules: This came out around 2003 and is basically an indie-style take on the Fantastic Four. Highly recommended FF Grand Design/Spider-Man: Life Story: Put these two series together as they are similar throwback/fresh takes on old concepts books. Also among the newest comics I've read (2019). Grand Design, by new fave Tom Scioli, supposes that the story of the FF from 1961 to about 1986 or so was planned out from start to finish from day one, while Life Story attempts to tell the history of Spider Man as if everything progressed in real time, with Peter in his 70s by 2019. Really fun stuff for a longtime fan of both FF and Spidey like myself. X Men: Grand Design by Ed Piskor is also good Astro City, vol 12: I'm a longtime Astro City fan and plan to get around to everything I've missed, which is basically the last 6-7 volumes. Kindle Unlimited had everything for free as part of a sub and I was going to sign up at a discount and read them that way. Unfortunately, all Astro City stuff has been pulled from Kindle and Comixology for some reason. Volume 12 was the only one I got around to on Comixology. Great stuff in this one, mostly a tale about longtime on again, off again lovers Quarrel and Crackerjack dealing with getting too old for crime fighting Jack Kirby bio by Tom Scioli: This came out last summer and I highly recommend it for Kirby fans. Really detailed graphic story of the King's life done by an artist who loves his work (see also FF: Grand Design) Enjoyable but inconsistent/missing something Thomas/Adams' X Men: Mostly just skimmed though this for the art by Neal Adams, which was pretty top notch, done just before he became huge with Green Lantern/Green Arrow and Batman. Considering what came before for the X Men in the 60s, this was definitely the peak of the title before being doomed to 5 years as a reprint mag, even with Thomas' dialogue not exactly aging well Gerber's Man Thing 1972-1974: One of my main missions of the last year was to finally read Gerber's 70s output, which was relatively difficult to accomplish 20 years ago during my last fandom peak. Man Thing was up and down, as the years have dulled the satire a bit. When it hits (such as with the Superman spoof, Wundarr) it's great, but a lot of the run is pretty average. Mike Ploog's art during the second half is awesome, though Kirby's Jimmy Olsen and the Demon: Another mission was to go through the 70s Kirby I haven't read (basically everything besides New Gods, Forever People, and Mister Miracle). Olsen was fun, especially at the start of the run. I thought the Demon was pretty good most of the time, but also kinda petered out at the end. Going to go back to the 50s for my next Kirby fix, with Challengers of the Unknown. Then, I think, either Kamandi or the Eternals Englehart's Captain America: This run (153-186) started off great with the return of the 50s Cap and Bucky, now deranged due to taking the Super Soldier serum without being exposed to the supplemental "Vita rays", which prevent eventual insanity. After that the book kinda meanders until the big Secret Empire saga, which was hit and miss imo. A disillusioned Cap subsequently quitting, hitting the road, and becoming Nomad, with the Falcon picking up the slack in NYC, and a succession of ill-prepared replacement Cap's running around, is a better story. The less said about end of the run, featuring an extremely ill-conceived retcon of the Falcon's origin, the better Panther's Rage by McGregor: Great art throughout (Jungle Action 6-18), but McGregor's purple prose almost killed me by the end Ditko's Shade the Changing Man: Maybe Ditko's last hurrah? Definitely a fun, offbeat science fiction story, with a Dr. Strange vibe to the art (the covers are particularly great). Just as things were kicking into another gear, the book was canceled as part of the infamous DC Implosion of 1978 Grell's Longbow Hunters: This was pretty good. Great art. I probably would've been more into it if I was more of a Green Arrow fan Hickman's Fantastic Four: I've really liked a lot of this long run (2009-2012), especially the whole Council of Reeds concept and the "death" of Johnny Storm arc. The fact you get actual character development, not to mention evolution of the FF concept itself, is refreshing for a mag in its 50th year. However, the resolution (and a lot of the journey) of two years of storyline was more than a bit bloated, especially when it splits into two titles with #600. Loved the touching look into the future story in #605. Still not done this, so I may bump it into my favorites by the end Swamp Thing 2011: Huge old time Swamp Thing fan, so I gave this a go after hearing praise for it on the Comics Canon podcast. Just read the first 7 issues. Good but not great. Need to read the next arc eventually Daredevil: Yellow: Plan on finishing all the Loeb and Sale "colour" mini series'. I had only read, and loved, Spider Man: Blue before. This was ok. Frank Miller had covered a lot of this ground already, so it didn't feel as "new" to me. I guess if I had read this when it first came out, when Karen Page's death was still a recent development, I would've enjoyed this more. I also haven't read much of 1960s DD outside of the original 11 issues, so I dont have an attachment to her as a character. Going to try Hulk: Gray next Nothing special/skimmed Kirby's New Gods coda: I really liked "Even Gods Must Die", the 1984 sequel to New Gods that was included in the baxter reprints of the original series. Very much an Empire Strikes Back feel, with Orion being left for dead at the end after finally confronting Darkseid. Hunger Dogs, the graphic novel finale, left me kinda cold. It felt like a totally different story than what had come before in many ways. The way Kirby illustrated Darkseid being left alone and pathetic was great, though Prez: This was another one I had wanted to read back in the day just because the premise sounded so wacky. This was...definitely wacky, much like most of Joe Simon's 70s output. This was like the comic book equivalent of watching Alice's Restuarant or something, an artifact of an era where you really needed to be there to fully appreciate it, maybe Gerber's Guardians of the Galaxy (Marvel Presents 3-9): I think I need a break from Gerber. This was not without its charms. The characters are mostly likable. I especially liked Martinex, who always strives to be good and do the right thing, and Vance Astro, who is having a really, really hard time coping with being a thousand year old man who will turn to dust if he takes off his costume. Plus you get the crazy metaphorical cosmic sex scene between Vance and Nikki in issue 7! World's Greatest Comic Magazine: This came out to coincide with the FFs 40th anniversary in 2001. The concept is "what if Stan and Jack ended their run on FF with an epic storyline that put a bow on the first 102 issues?" This was mostly fun, but a little hollow. A bunch of different artists do their best Kirby impression, Dr. Doom becomes godlike, but in the end 12 issues was a bit much for me (and as you can tell, I was on a bit of an FF kick last year) The Order: I saw this mentioned as something recommended from Marvel from the last 20 years. It's a Defenders story by Kurt Busiek, and after finishing Gerber's run I thought I'd check it out. It's good but not terribly memorable or anything. Defenders mega fans will probably really like it Strange Tales (2009-10): I just skimmed through these issues, which was an anthology series of indie talent doing mostly comical takes on Marvel characters. Some really funny stuff (Banner having to turn into the Hulk in order to open a jar of pickles was my fave), some really esoteric stuff, and some really weird stuff all together by some really talented creators. Six giant sized issues was a bit too much for a limited concept, though Dick Tracy: Dead or Alive: I've always been a Tracy fan going back to the late 80s and Blackthorne reprints. This had Mike Allred involvement, and he's one of my faves. That said, this didnt do it for me. The art just seemed...wrong. I guess my main complaint is this just didnt feel like the Dick Tracy I know and love, so it was hard for me to get into (and I'm not just a Gould fan, I've also enjoyed Collins/Fletcher and Staton/Curtis over the years) Early-70s Ghost Rider: Ploog's art is wonderful, but the story didnt hook me to survive past his time on the book Not Brand Echh: Another one I just skimmed though (dear God, there is more text than a 19th century novel), pretty much entirely for the artists. Love Marie Severin, and it's great seeing Colon doing humour Fun Spidey/Torch 2005: Saw this recommended and decided to check it out. Fun, easy read. Plan on checking out Slott's She Hulk eventually Marvel Two in One 1-7: These are so much fun. I plan on resuming this eventually and also going through Marvel Team Up (only read the first 4 issues so far) Not Good America vs the Justice Society: I'm a HUGE Earth 2 fan. I remember trying to find these issues many years ago, before it was reprinted, with no luck. Turns it it wasn't worth the wait. Talk about your 19th century novels, Jesus Christ, Roy! Also, the convoluted plot really doesn't make sense. Desperately needed Jerry Ordway on art, but not sure if even he could've saved this. Big letdown

After the 77-78 feud with Graham, Dusty did MSG shots for several years. In 1981 he did a few TV appearances leading up to a big MSG match with Killer Khan, during the period when Khan had put Andre on the shelf with a broken ankle in storyline. Other than that it was strictly special attraction appearances, which ended after Vince Jr left the NWA in August 83

Also, great stuff Loss. I've been following along on Twitter already. Keep it up

I'm biased because I used to be part of a podcast about the Backlund-era, and while the match quality for MSG, Philly, etc, undercards could be extremely poor at times, matches with the JTTS crew on regular TV were often pretty damn good. Even the midcard vs midcard matches on TV could be much better than matches between the same talent on a house show. I think there was definitely something to the idea that undercard wrestlers on house shows were often careful not to upstage the main event, but on TV they let loose a bit more

Zayn was a really great babyface in NXT circa 2013-15, but I agree. I loved the Generico gimmick. The tag with him and Steen, really. That was the only time I've ever been into ROH

December 1, 1990 Superstars, during the Snuka match obviously. The audio is on this ep of Greetings from Allentown https://open.spotify.com/episode/43nsQ1hbKarwPdRFxZQPwv?si=rPY1eEOwSWCbAUm_DAN6Cw&utm_source=copy-link

Hell, Vince and Piper even *wink, wink* joke about Snuka possibly murdering his girlfriend on a late 1990 Superstars. Wish I could provide more info off the top of my head. It was talked about on an old Greetings From Allentown pod