jackwebb

I want to give the WWE the benefit of the doubt for tonight. That for once they had long term booking in mind at money in the bank. The plan being having Reigns finally win the title. Have Sheamus come out to cash in. Have Reigns beat Sheamus on the cash in as well. Keeping the belt off Sheamus would be a babyface move to everyone I think.

Ted DiBiase Jr. and Maryse was pretty brutal. Both looked like they wanted to be somewhere else. I could see Zeb and Del Rio being named the worst at some point.

He was fired as head of RAW and Smackdown but held his CEO spot. When Triple did that awful "I love you pop" line. Triple H took over and Vince ended up firing him from that role. Triple H was fired when all the talent walked out because of how dangerous the Miz and R-Truth were. Which is when Johnny Ace took over.

He made a dated reference about Shawn Michaels a couple of years ago. When he came out with his sleeves rolled up Dave said he looked like Schneider from One Day at a Time. So that is another show he watched.

Agreed. They used the old steel railings as the ringside barrier when they did the old school RAW shows. Made a huge difference visually. A lot better than the black barrier they are using now IMO. Was hoping they would keep it.

Intriguing show. Ratings aren't good so McMahon could change things up. There is one match with a mystery opponent. The world champion is in 2 matches. The Money in the Bank contract is in play. Hell in a Cell is next month though so they might want to drag some feuds out as well. They have invested a lot of time in Rollins. I would consider turning him tonight if it were my call.

Flair was cool with him. He disagreed with some points Russo made but it was just a standard conversation with differences of opinion. Conrad didn't say much. When he did he took the passive aggressive approach. Which is always lame. Russo fawned over Flair at one point for saying in an interview that it wasn't Russo that killed WCW. Flair said he didn't know people said that he would have set the record straight years ago. Russo is defensive and has a higher opinion of his worth than he should. Like most people in the wrestling business. As always he'll say some things that are right when criticizing the business. Where things would get ugly is if you asked what his solution would be. Someone really should tell Russo that when you repeatedly say "I'll be honest with you" or some variation of that phrase you are telling people you're full of shit usually.

I'd rather watch videos of people being obnoxious about their charity work than watch people dump buckets of ice on themselves in order to not have to donate. I don't even think WWE is obnoxious about it for the most part. Besides that ridiculous Stand up for WWE campaign a few years ago.

The Sting promo was really strange. Basically just putting over Triple H.

That ties Cena with Kurt Angle with 12 matches at 4 and 1/2 stars or more.

I'm surprised to see so many reality era type suggestions. I think they should do the same thing they did with Mark Henry a few years back. A strong focused build with decisive finishes. If we are at the point that a wrestler needs Dave Meltzer backstage stories to get over I'm ready to move on from watching.

1. Heels consistently getting the better of babyfaces. A staple of when Triple H was champion that should go away that hasn't. I somethings think he doesn't understand why the NWA had a touring heel champion and this will continue on for a while 2. Narration story telling. When they want to get someone over as sinister far too often now they just have other workers and the announcers call them sinister. Rather than have them actually do things that are sinister. Has far more impact in a play to show a man is a wife beater by having him beat on her. Rather than just have her call him it all the time. 3. Solo in ring promos. This connects to the last point. Even more ineffective in a play would be not calling the husband a wife beater in dialogue at all. Instead just going off and talking to the audience. This wouldn't be as much of an issue if they weren't scripting things and presenting the workers as actors. 4. Wrestlers that don't engage the crowd while working. Gives the matches less heat. Match quality now is far too often completely dependent on the crowd. If you have a crowd that isn't into something they won't get into it thanks to workers that know how to engage them. Where less people due to how things are set up. 5. Bad finish. Wrestler distracted by another wrestlers theme music playing. 6. Bad finish. Heel walking away. 7. Not enough cheating in matches by heels. 8. No time limit draws for television. The back and forth win trading doesn't really accomplish anything when done all the time. Can't do a Booker T vs Benoit best of 7 series type deal when every mid card feud is basically this setup. 9. The entire emphasis as fans as part of the show. With how things are lit. Showing the signs on screen. Having wrestlers constantly acknowledge the crowd in promos. Comparing it to a play you again. It would not be a good idea to have actors from a play randomly thank you for being there and telling you that they are there to entertain you during scenes. 10. The show is just far too self aware. In a way it is going through what the Simpsons went through. Simpsons was a great show with social commentary that was a critique and parody of American family life. At some point it became self aware and turned into a parody of itself. WWE presented a different type of show but it too has become a self aware parody of itself. Complete with the backstage booking now presented on screen as the authority. 11. Obnoxious Vince McMahon as a heel announcer via JBL. Complete with Vince McMahon babyface announcer style oversells and phony over the top enthusiasm. 12. Announcers being handed a sheet with things to say. Full of ready made catchphrases, buzz words and points of emphasis that leads to Cole basically forced to just read things off of a list. 13. The shows identity crisis. Sports and entertainment are clashing here in a bad way. It is mostly the entertainment aspects at fault. They can't talk acknowledge what sport it is but still try and present it as a sport. With the panels kayfabe discussing what is happening like an NBA or NFL halftime show. 14. Twitter, hashtags 15. Shaky camera which again causes a sport vs entertainment conflict. It just isn't compatible and scenes with shaky cameras in movie and television require careful editing. Just to keep the audience from getting nauseous. 16. With wrestlers not working the crowd, and the crowd being excessively emphasized the crowd is excessively empowered. You have some crowds that just overreact to everything. Just the overall inconsistent standards of crowds with different regions having different tastes is a complete mess with how empowered fans currently are due to the presentation. Wouldn't be as much of a problem if wrestlers knew how to adjust the way Cena does to the crowd. Most are just stuck to the script. 17, Match quality being far too tied to match length, false finishes and kick outs of big moves. Both in how the match is worked and how the crowd responds. 18. Overall presentation and set of the show has been the same for too long. Everywhere and everything looks the same. 19. Compete lack of authenticity in backstage skits. 20. No drama in ref counts since there aren't enough count outs from someone taking damage on the outside and not getting up. Most count outs are just guys walking out or getting distracted by something backstage. For things that happen in a match to mean something there has to be consequences for those things occasionally.

Meltzer gave both of them 4.5 stars. Both higher than the 4 he gave the Cena and Umaga Last Man Standing match.

No one said there wasn't kayfabe. You seem to think that Kayfabe means that people couldn't watch pro wrestling and figure out it was fake. The reality is that people saw it as fake all the way back to the 1800s. The link MoS points to gives a host of articles showing that. People who, back in the late 1980s and early 1990s, researched wrestling in the late 1800s through the 1930s in the old school fashion (microfilm at libraries) ran across articles like that all the time. I never put any time or thought into wrestling that old. Was watching a movie from 1941 called Shadow of the Thin Man. Don't remember the exact quote so will paraphrase it. They go to a wrestling show and someone says to the main character, played by William Powell, that it is going to be a great match. His response was something like "how do you know? Were you at the rehearsal?" I think back to that and laugh anytime Cornette says, "it was fake and people thought it was real. Now it is real and people think it is fake." He is usually talking about work being too stiff but it is an odd way of making the point.

Mick Foley/WWF fans going after the family owned web site of that gay man that was murdered in a hate crime. Matthew Shepard. Over the Time Man of the Year vote.

I don't like to watch matches a second time very often. My memory has a tendency to exaggerate things over time. Making it harder for stuff I loved to live up to the memory. So if I do watch something again I prefer to do it immediately. So I like reading posts here for when you talk about things I haven't watched. That will sometimes get me to go and watch it. It also increases the chances of me enjoying it without having the in the moment context. Which I think wrestling needs. Knowing who wins and who losses a match impacts my enjoyment negatively a bit. The cerebral breakdown of a match I find here fills in that gap. I do find it interesting when you guys have a much different opinion of a match than how I remember it. After reading posts here for years I have a good idea of who I agree with usually based on conversations of the modern product. So I know if they rate something highly that I remember not being that good chances are good I will enjoy it if I go back and watch it. So far I have decided to stick with avoiding that though. Still plenty of stuff to see for the first time. So although I don't participate in the discussion much when it comes to stuff I have seen I prefer reading about it here over watching it again.

He said that Hogan had told people in TNA about him and Savage laying their problems to rest before Savage even died. I watched the Warrior video years ago. My memory of it was Warrior saying Savage invited Hogan to a BBQ and Hogan thought that going to a BBQ was beneath him and turned him down. Either way though it at least shows that this wasn't some story Hogan came up with out of the blue. I don't really consider it my business though and hate even giving it that much thought. Hogan and Savage were clearly close at one point. My Uncles didn't get along when one died. If they living one has to pretend that things were smoothed over to make things easier on him now so be it. Not a big deal.

That definitely covers a broad enough range to explain it so thanks. Was a mistake on my part assuming the answer would be more concise.

That reminds me of my hate for "technical wrestler." I just don't understand what it means. Every attempt to have it explained by the person using it has come up empty. Maybe some people just use it wrong. I don't know. I just don't get what unites Benoit, Regal, Lance Storm, Davey Richards and Daniel Bryan as workers. At times it seems like the word just gets applied to guys that do mat wrestling or have longer matches. I just haven't seen it applied consistently enough to know what those using it are trying to say.

I definitely wanted more time as it was happening but do agree that crowd seemed to be peaking. It might have helped. I thought the near falls at the end where much more dramatic than usual due to being so close to 11:00. If that contributed to it I think it was a plus. I do think it should end when people are wanting more. Much more effective way to get people to watch the next show than a hologram and Bray Wyatt.

Most of the shows have the option of listening to the first half - 3/4 for free anyway here. The Bruce Mitchell shows were alright but they come at the end of the week. When the topics have already been done to death most of the time. Usually had a good point of view though.

One pet peeve. Tag matches when a partner breaks up a pin fall. The one getting pinned doesn't lift a shoulder and his opponent is still on him after the break. Made worse by how often the guy breaking it up arrives late. Such an easy fix. One other. Bret Hart almost always having his mouth open. Wish I wasn't aware of it. Like his matches and sometimes get fixated on it.

I would have paid to get to watch that Sting vs Triple H match backstage with Bret Hart.

I gave up on Keller after the Punk podcast. He went on for over a half hour on Punk not wanting fans to call him by his real name. Also wasn't a fan of how often he felt the need to try and dumb down a point he made. Typically using a basketball analogy.

8:00-8:15 Raw opens with Brock Lesnar and Heyman coming to the ring. Lesnar says that since he sees no real competition for him in the WWE he is forfeiting the title and leaving the company. Triple H and Stephanie come out and say good bye. They also book an 8 wrestler tournament for later tonight with the winner getting the vacated title. Daniel Bryan comes out and says that should be my title. I never lost it. I will win it tonight though. Rollins comes out with the brief case and says one way or the other I will be walking out of here tonight as the new champion. Rollins tells Daniel Bryan he has bigger problems tonight but wouldn't explain what those problems are when asked. 8:15-8:30 Brackets for title tournament are shown Dolph Ziggler vs Rusev Daniel Bryan vs Kane Sheamus vs Rollins Roman Reigns vs Big Show John Cena is shown backstage confronting the authority for not putting him in the tournament. Triple H apologizes and tells Cena he just forgot about him. Tells Cena he will make it up to him later. Cena says cool thanks and leaves. Heyman comes in and says with Brock Lesnar gone i need someone new to manage. Says the person has to be smart, athletic and charismatic. Triple H says he is the only one on the roster with all of those attributes. 8:30-8:45 Dolph Ziggler comes out for the first tournament match. Says that he will steal the show tonight. Rusev comes out for the match. Total lopsided beat down. Ziggler hits 2 moves all match at most. Ends up winning via disqualification when Rusev attempts to impale Ziggler with the flag pole. 8:45-9:00 The New Day come out and say that they are looking for a match for tonight. Anybody will do. Unfamiliar music hits and out comes David Otunga, Darren Young and Titus O'Neil. David Otunga informs the New Day that the 3 of them are a new group called Past Mistakes. They have a 6 man tag match. Match ends when Titus O'Neill gets distracted when a theme song plays. Turns out it was Past Mistakes theme song he just forgot. JBL is pissed it played at all. Wonders that dastardly devil did it. Booker T guesses R Truth since he might feel left out. 9:00 to 9:15. Tournament match 2. Daniel Bryan vs Kane. Kane attempted to throw stairs into the ring. They bounced off the ropes so he knocked himself unconscious. Daniel Bryan wins via count out. 9:15 to 9:30 Sheamus vs Rollins Orton returns and attempts to get revenge on Rollins. He mistakingly hits Sheamus instead and ref calls for a disqualification with Sheamus as the winner. 9:30 -10:00 Starts with Reigns and Mizdow talking in the background. Mizdow tells Reigns he should go work as the Rock's stunt double. Look at what it has done for my career he tells him. Next Big Show and Reigns come to the ring and have their match. Reigns sold for most of the match. Hits for the Superman punch for the win. Heyman is shown scouting Reigns. 10:00-10:15 Daniel Bryan vs Ziggler Dolph says he is going to win the belt and steal the show. JBL says it is going to be the showboat vs the goat. Daniel Bryan wins with a small package. Ziggler says congrats and that he is ok with the loss since they got a this is awesome chant. 10:15-10:30 Sheamus vs Reigns Sheamus says he is worried about his long term health since he is just returning from injury and Reigns is too strong and too good a wrestler. So he forfeits. Heyman comes out and says Reigns should be thankful Lesnar left. Reigns says he wants nothing to do with Heyman. Reigns is ready to face Daniel Bryan tonight for the title. Triple H comes out and says he made a mistake putting Reigns in the tournament since he already won the Royal Rumble and has a title shot already. He informs Reigns that he is disqualified from the tournament in order to not hurt the Royal Rumble stipulation in future years. The match for the final tonight will instead be Daniel Bryan vs a mystery opponent. 10:30-10:45 Daniel Bryan comes out for the match. The anticipation builds for his mystery opponent. The music hits. It is Brock Lesnar! A quick backstage shot shows Rollins escorting some men into the arena. Daniel Bryan and Lesnar are just about to lock up when Rollins music hits and him and the gentlemen come out. Turns out that these men are the police. Booker T says somebody called the police. The police come to the ring and handcuff Daniel Bryan. They inform him that the child he did a make a wish for recently says that Daniel Bryan molested him. Triple H comes out and says that with Daniel Bryan out that makes Brock Lesnar the winner of the tournament and new champion. Lesnar is pissed though and wants a match. Calls out anyone in the back to come challenge him for the title. 10:45-11:05 Cena heads to the ring when suddenly the screen goes completely black. A person with a portable camera is shooting the action. Triple H runs up and asks what happened. They lost the feed because Dolph Ziggler stole the production truck. He stole the show. Triple H is angry that he didn't see this coming. The production truck is shown driving out of the arena parking lot. The last 10 minutes of the show and the 5 minute overrun was just the image on screen. Ziggler's master plan has finally come to fruition.