thebrainfollower

Parv brought this up casually in another thread, naturally believing Ted to be the better talent. I'm not so sure about this as I think it's a very complex comparison. On face value, you'd think they had very close careers. Both guys peaked in terms of national fame at the same moment and in the same place, late 80's WWF. They are two of the "big four" of more technically talented top heels of that era in the WWF (with Savage and Perfect) and are gimmicks everyone remembers. Their in ring careers ended less than a year apart and both ended up as suited NWO minions towards the end. But on face value I find this to be a very hard straight comparison to make. For one Ted Dibiase played both babyface and heel for long runs in his career, whereas Rude played basically only a heel (his early Mid South run as a lower card guy aside). For a second thing Dibiase got to work with ALL the top WWF guys in his run, whereas Rude only had one TV match with Hogan and none at all with Savage during his run. For a third thing, I'd argue they basically peaked nearly a decade apart. I also think Rude played his character in the ring incredibly well and seemed to have more passion for his run than Ted did, at least in the WWF. Rude's WCW run vs. Ted's Mid South peak make for an interesting case. Anyone else want to talk about these two? I'm not sure I have an easy answer.

Per Rude vs. Dibiase - this SOUNDS like something that's a fair and simple comparison as both guys were top heels in the WWF in the late 80's but I think it's a tougher comparison to make. Dibiase peaked in the mid 80's after a decade in the territories working the best in the world at the time. Rude on the other hand really didn't get started until the territories were dying off, and he didn't work a whole heck of a lot of top workers other than Lawler until he got to Crockett land. He then spent most of his WWF run being the teacher, not the learner (except for the Jake feud I guess) and then moved on to be the best heel in WCW in one of its best in ring years ever. Rude also had a shorter career, only about 12 years or so IIRC. I'd say he worked his character a lot better than Ted, playing the cocky arrogant poser in every moment in the match in a way Dibiase didn't really play MDM in the ring. I'd like to see a separate thread on this, but again their peaks are nearly ten years apart in reality.

I can't think of anyone NOT named Dynamite Kid Bret ever did that too. I'd say Bret was just protecting his body against a legit psychopath and had every right to do so. Bret's NOT a tough guy who can take you apart if you mess with him (I don't know if the Hammer was, but I would venture a guess he was). Dynamite was a guy I'd be very nervous about letting get his stuff in if I were Bret. Have you ever heard Jake's "elbow, fist or knee" story about Dynamite and Bret. There's a kneedrop in a TV match they had in 85 where Dynamite just blasts Bret as hard as possible. Also Parv Bulldogs matches tended to have the same characteristics as Bob Backlund matches. Go back and watch WM 2 where the heel champs get squashed like bugs for 90% of the match and then lose on a fluke.

He did not play Bob Backlund Parv, though he did play a face until 97. Except for maybe people like Kwang or a Heavenly Body, who the world champ SHOULD be eating alive, he gave way more than half the match to everyone he faced. I'd say he was more in the mold of 88 Randy Savage.

Yeah Barry was not hurt or held back by the death of the territories. He was held back by himself and fully admits as such. His career is no different.

I was hoping for Jeff Gaylord's armed bank robbery myself.

I am so ill right now I read this as "they look at all six matches of his career"

Be aware it's not free. You have to pay $15 a year to hear them, as well as a bunch of other podcast including Cornette's stuff.

I have to say, after listening to every episode I have a new appreciation for Sullivan as diplomat. And after hearing about Hogan's ego, anyone who thought he'd job clean at Starrcade 97 without the threat of a mob hit the moment he left the ring is out of his mind.

That's right. It was Brother Love who once wrestled Hogan during the Hogan-Bossman feud. I got that confused with Slick.

I definitely think Fuji did it for the cash and because he enjoyed working. After about 1986 Bobby wrestled pretty sporadically due to injuries and almost never in the 90's. I want to say Slick did wrestle a few matches here and there (against Hogan once IIRC) and Jimmy won an MSG battle royal but they couldn't work often obviously. You have to remember that managers other than Elizabeth had long periods where they didn't do any house shows except MSG occasionally. Bobby was doing all the commentary and Prime Time, Jimmy was a real life manager for his guys and did music and Slick..........well who knows. It's not like Fuji did a lot of work post 86. He'd come in, hit a few chops, maybe do the diving headbutt to the groin and get beat. He didn't really bump or anything. Plus imagine the rib if you accidentally hurt Fuji.

I can't give you an answer Parv, but I will say this having listened to a bunch of Gary Hart interviews. Gary seems to be one of those guys, like Bobby Heenan and Jim Cornette, whose word is taken as absolute Gospel by the IWC. I myself found a number of errors (which are just factual and could be memory) in his interviews and would doubt anything he, or anyone for that matter as a good historian, says that can't be backed up. Having said that Dory might just have too much class to go after a family that has seen the tragedy of the Von Erichs.

Sorry Nassau not Meadowlands. I thought Fuji was around for the Raw where Vader injures him and they get a forklift to get him out.

Smack Em Whack Em is the CHV you are remembering Parv. Has UT-Ramon, Earthquake-Repo, Bret-Flair, Bret-Shawn and Bret-Kamala IIRC.

I was literally typing the reply that there was a Heenan-Fuji match in 91 as Parv found out. Meadowlands and MSG angles very often intertwined.

Dynamite would have been absurd. Granted Stallone is a short guy so he could have matched up with Dynamite but Carl Weathers would have dwarfed him, completely ruined the whole idea of the movie and failed miserably. Visually a Kerry willing to cut his hair works, but you'd have to dub him to get anything that works. As for the Hogan claim, I've heard crazy things about everyone from Big John Studd (I can sorta see it) and Gorilla Monsoon of all people being up for the part. I can't think of any better choice than Hogan though.

Those years are what I heard too Sleaze, though I've heard 86 put in the highest, not lowest, drawing category.

JR works great with Hayes and he does work well with Lawler at times. It strikes me as regional prejudice. If you're Southern, he'll work with you. If you aren't he won't. But somehow that's okay in his mind but being fired for "being too Southern" is wrong. As for Tony he doesn't work well WITH him. Tony works well in spite of him, because, being used to being a solo play by play man, Tony can just tell his own narrative and ignore JR as much as JR annoys him. With Jesse there's not much more he can do. Listen to JR and Heenan in their one or two Coliseum Videos. People have credited it being good but it's really not. JR sounds genuinely angry and annoyed at Heenan all the time. When Heenan tries to really sell Hart/Savage vs. Flair/Michaels as being a great match because he's realized that's the ONLY way he can get JR to talk he just replies in a patronizing arrogant tone "it's a great one isn't it". No wonder this joker got canned a bunch of times. Sorry I've just never been on board with JR as a great commentator, because he plays these annoying games based on how happy he is to be with partner X. Anyone "great" at their job doesn't appear unprofessional every time they are unhappy. He's like the Steiner Brother of announcers.

Even if, for some bizarre reason, you think Jesse is at fault, there's absolutely nothing reasonable he could have done to fix the situation. What are his options? He can just shut up and say nothing at all I guess or he could have pulled Jim Ross aside and tried to talk to him about it. I'd love to ask Jesse about this but I suspect it's a unimportant blip in his life he wouldn't remember in the slightest unless you sat down with him and watched the show. I guess I would have gotten annoyed enough to actually ask, point blank on the air to JR "Whats' your problem and why won't you respond to anything I say". I've had actors on stage who've refused to interact with their colleagues and I've stopped a rehearsal to remind them in front of the cast to stop pulling that stuff. But then I'm kind of a jerk.

I guess K. Allen didn't see the problem and Watts would have side with JR anyway.

So you asked for people's take on the whole Jesse-JR thing. Here was my take on KM a year or so back. I just watched Superbrawl II and the reason is painfully simple. Jim Ross won't talk to Jesse. Jesse will make observations calling for a reply all the time "frequently saying hey ross or what about this jim Ross" and never, not ONCE does he get a reply. I've seen a good amount of Ross's 87-91 stuff and while he is a more communicative with Jim Cornette and Michael Hayes as examples, this seems to be something he is just awful at in general. He never understand that IMO, the best commentary is a conversation, not boring play by play and nothing else. The better PBP men, Gorilla, Tony, I would include Vince, got this and always talk to their partners. Jim Ross is in a world of his own, going, off about college football backgrounds (hey Ross I wanna watch WRESTLING you bleepity bleep, I felt like saying as a young viewer) for most of the time and refusing to acknowledge their might be a better way of doing his job until Vince McMahon fired him again and again. Now that's what I said THEN but looking back I've heard interviews with Ross where he admits he was jealous about Jesse's contract and didn't really want to work with him. I'd say that's a lot of the problem too because he does work better with Tony, Cornette and Hayes. So in some ways his behavior was WORSE than I thought because it's not "didn't know how" it's "didn't want to, and was unprofessional enough not to as a result". People talk about Bischoff firing JR out of jealousy or his being too Southern, but if I had been in charge and heard Superbrawl II he'd have gotten a "last warning" talk about growing up.

Riots! But seriously this was a great show and has been a complete turnaround for Jerry's embattled booking. Since giving Snuka the title everything is coming up gold.

Is there a guy in wrestling history who's gone over more often when he shouldn't have than HHH? Heck is there even anyone who's a close second to him?

Slaughter's departure is indeed a huge blow but this is getting a lot better. I could see a Muraco turn on Snuka at some point too leading to an MSG cage match I do however strongly object to the Brainbusters beating the Samoans with a spike piledriver. We all know Samoans know sell moves to the head in Vince's world.

Just caught the Nitro after GAB 96. Pretty good show with a little something for everyone. The highlight to me is AA and Benoit vs. the American Males. Arn WANTS to work heel in the hardest way possible but the crowd won't let him and halfway through says "to heck with it", embraces the love and plays a heel who's really a face brilliantly. Steiner vs. Giant is quite good in a massive bomb throwing way. Bet Parv likes it. There's really not a bad match on the show IMO. Even Disco vs. Joe Gomez was okay.