C.S.

Another solid Bring It To The Table. Some of the more notable comments/moments for me were: - JBL compared Bayley's recent "fall from grace" to Glenn Jacobs misfiring as Isaac Yankem and Fake Diesel before finally hitting it big as Kane. That seemed really out of touch to me, because Bayley was over like gangbusters in NXT. He also said that what may work in one place may not work in another. If NXT acts don't work in WWE, what is the fucking point of NXT? All of that "THIS IS AWESOME!!!" bullshit they do over there is absolutely meaningless if it doesn't translate to the main roster. - When "...dive" came up, Peter Rosenberg said that Randy Orton "doesn't always leave it all in the ring." WTF? While I'm not disagreeing, who the hell is he to say that? Rosenberg tried to claim that Triple H implied it once, which may be so, but I don't remember that. Wouldn't surprise me if this becomes an issue shortly between Rosenberg and the hotheaded Orton. I'd be pissed if I were Randy. - In the same segment, Graves defended the high-flying style of people like Will Ospraey and Richochet and the "evolution" of the business while admitting that Buddy Rogers bores him...wow. JBL, as you'd expect, took the opposite stance. - JBL buried Kevin Owens by saying the Universal Title didn't have credibility until Brock won it because Finn got injured and then the title played hot potato from KO to Goldberg (even though KO held the title for months). Poor KO. - Dean Ambrose was also buried - by Graves, who said nothing interesting happened when Dean was I-C Champ. True, but damn! Is that Ambrose's fault or the writers' though? Ambrose seemed super-unmotivated for sure, but he wasn't exactly given much to work with either.

I picked Miz then and would pick him now. My rant about "women are not draws" has obviously not aged well, but the fact is, they weren't draws when I posted that. They were never put into a position to draw back then. They have been now. As great as Charlotte has been, Miz is on another level entirely. He's on fire.

I could not agree with you more. I never saw the big deal with Crews when he got to NXT. His work was bland and unremarkable and he had the infuriating habit of grinning like an idiot 90% of the time. I'll never forget after he was called up, I forget who it was, but somebody attacked him backstage and beat him down, left him lying in a heap. A couple of segments later, out comes Apollo Crews who is not only NOT selling any injuries from the attack, but he's still got the big ass, shit-eating grin plastered across his face. I don't know about you, but if somebody kicked the shit out of me and left me in a heap, I'd likely still be a little put out by it 15 minutes later. I assume somebody in creative on the main roster liked him because of his big muscles. There might be those who say "at least he has big muscles" but I tend to think no...at most he's got big muscles. I'll be a little kinder: When Crews debuted, his ring work exceeded my expectations, as I was honestly expecting Ahmed Johnson or a WWE-era Bobby Lashley based on his look. With that said, that doesn't mean I think he's amazing in the ring or anything, and has absolutely nothing else going for him - no character, no personality, no reason to give a shit at all. Unfortunately for him, "muscle guy who smiles" isn't a character. As for the Raw segment, it wouldn't surprise me if the backstage attack was filmed earlier and the smiley Crews segment was live. In that case, the blame would be on WWE's production staff, not Crews. Or did Crews actually mention the attack when he came out smiling like an idiot? Apparently, Apollo Crews and Akira Tozawa are best friends in real life. WWE could do worse than put them together as an odd couple tag team. I wouldn't mind seeing that, and maybe their real-life chemistry (assuming they have any) will bleed into their characters? I have to disagree: I think NXT would've made a world of difference for Gallows and Anderson. Other than the early Bullet Club teaser stuff they did with AJ, they haven't been interesting as characters or in the ring. Like Crews, we still don't know who they are and have been been given zero reason to give a shit about them at all. It's a shame, because they apparently have great personalities (as seen on Ride Along and other appearances of that nature).

Great post, Thread Killer. I'm not convinced the WWE didn't originally have plans for The Ascension though. They were booked strongly in the beginning and even scored a clean, decisive victory over Attitude Era legends the New Age Outlaws. The problem was, they went from having a unique look in NXT to becoming bad Road Warriors knockoffs the minute they showed up on Raw, and they didn't get over as a result. Also, they really weren't ever that good, which didn't help. The Vaudevillians, I think, were always going to be a lost cause on the main roster. Simon Botch's botching and supposed backstage attitude probably didn't help though. Apollo Crews never, ever should have been called up from NXT. He wasn't over with the "THIS IS AWESOME!" Full Sail smarks, so what on earth made them think he'd fare better on the main roster? As of now, he still has no personality, no character, nothing that defines him. He needed another year at least in NXT and I still think he should be sent back down there. Breeze, I agree, was botched on the main roster, but he was never used as anything other than a glorified JTTS in NXT, so we realistically shouldn't have expected anything more. But he did beat Dolph Ziggler when that still meant something, so I'm not sure what happened? Maybe his mismatched pairing with Summer Rae hurt him? Such a shame, because he's really good and deserves better. Hopefully now he's finally getting it.

This made me think of your post. KayfabeNews.com: Rollins’ parents insist his middle name is Todd, not Freakin’

Bret Hart becoming the WWF Champion. An "undersized" midcard and tag guy winning the big one? It was unheard of in the WWF of that era! Runner-up goes to Diesel becoming WWF Champion and ending Bob Backlund's reign after only three days. Despite Diesel's WWF success up to that point, memories of Vinnie Vegas losing to everyone in WCW were still fresh in my mind. I think both of them were especially shocking because they were rare house show title changes. The Undertaker defeating Hogan at Survivor Series '91 has to be right up there too. But as soon as that evil Canadian dictator Jack Tunney announced a rematch for This Tuesday in Texas, I knew the "fix" was in. (I was not a Hulkamaniac, even then!)

It wasn't Kennel from Hell or anything, but I expected a lot more. Maybe that's unfair for a pre-show, but I've seen other really good pre-show matches. This one was "just there" IMO.

I thought it was horribly disappointing. Zero chemistry between them. Titus was the star, which I imagine is not what they wanted. (Or maybe they did?) Kalisto had much better matches with Ryback on pre-shows a year or two ago. Apollo can't be classified as anything other than a massive failure at this point. Nothing they've done with him has worked. It still boggles my mind that he was ever called up from NXT when he couldn't even connect with the Full Sail "THIS IS AWESOME!" crowd.

Apollo should be released. He needs 2-3 more good years in the indies/Japan. Despite having all the tools on paper, that guy has not connected at all.

Agreed. I'd even settle for 75 minutes to eliminate the inevitable Cornette profanity and anything that goes against the "WWE narrative." 19 minutes seems like a cruel joke.

That's true too, but only because they were actually backed into a corner and had to push Bryan after Punk left. Otherwise, we'd remember it as Steph emasculating Bryan and Trips cutting him off at the knees at every turn. True, but I'm not sure that means "Authority Figure" deserves a separate category as one of the 5-6 successful basic wrestling storyline archetypes. In all of those cases, it's still a 1 on 1 feud. Story-wise, what's the difference between Boss Man vs. Hogan and Vince vs. Hogan? One guy's playing a cop vs. Hogan and the other guy's playing an evil executive vs. Hogan.

A great post! Although, I personally wouldn't add "authority figure abuses roster" because that has never truly been successful. Yes, of course Austin vs. McMahon was a smash hit, BUT that was one authority figure vs. one wrestler and could probably loosely fit in one of the other categories. While the Mr. McMahon character surely had other targets from time to time, it only worked because of the dynamic between him and Austin. It has not worked since, in any combination, and is now one of the stalest and laziest crutches around and has been run into the ground by every fed. Edit: Evil "Easy E" Bischoff also worked, to a lesser extent, but the nWo would have been perfectly fine without it too.

When Steve-fucking-Lombardi and various no-name d-list comedians (Ron Funches, etc.) have been talking heads, Russo doesn't exactly have a high mountain to climb. And when did this turn into an either/or argument anyway? No one is saying Russo should replace Cornette.

At the same time, having the two hottest stars means less than jack shit if they're not put into a position to draw - e.g. Austin in WCW, the entire history of TNA, etc. Right place, right time for Russo? Maybe to an extent. But without him pushing the WWF to go from family friendly to Attitude Era, Austin and Rock are far different characters.

Russo as a booker drew money (albeit for a very brief time, and not by himself). Cornette as a booker never has. That earns Russo a spot at the "talking head" table IMO. Both men's flaws are otherwise widely documented, both in this thread and elsewhere, so no need for me to go into that

Agreed, although - thank God - I don't remember the Mideon farm animal stuff. Brand extension? Russo takes Raw and Heyman takes Smackdown? Oklahoma was actually created in the WWF - not with that name or the full costume, of course, but Ed Ferrera debuted his idiotic J.R. impersonation on Sunday Night Heat.

So many possibilities here: Vince Russo was responsible for record high ratings during the Attitude Era. What if he never went to WCW but instead remained in the WWF? - Can he sustain those numbers? - Even if he can't, is he remembered in a much more favorable light? - What happens to WCW? Do they remain in business? (I always felt it was a very naive and simplistic view to blame Russo for everything when there were clearly other and much bigger problems and factors in play.) - Does TNA ever become a thing? (We already know Vince Russo came up with the name, so it would have at least been called something else.) - Does Chyna get a second chance in the WWF because of her friendship with Russo? - Who gets pushed under Russo that otherwise wouldn't have? (Not counting Jeff Jarrett, whom I assume Vince McMahon would have continued to veto.) - How long does Russo last in the WWF overall?

You wouldn't love a Table For 3 with Russo? The other two could be Bischoff and let's say AJ Styles for the hell of it because they have to put someone random in there who is kinda, sorta linked to both guys. Credit: WhatCulture.com Because Russo comes across like a complete out of touch ass now. His trolling about Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, etc. - which I doubt he really believes, but still - makes him seem like a relic of a bygone era. Still, with all the other assholes who get Network interviews, "talking head" segments, Table For 3 appearances, etc., Russo should too. The heat he has with others would make for entertaining viewing in that format.

Table for 3 with Jim Cornette, Eric Bischoff, and Michael PS Hayes was the best episode of that show ever, by a country mile. It's just a shame that an obviously much longer conversation got cut down to 19 minutes. I kinda wish Vince Russo would get back into WWE's good graces, at least as a "talking head," so he can appear on these sorts of things. I know there was new footage of him shot for the Monday Night War series and a couple of other things, but not much.

If that happened, WWF would have still had a disastrous '94-'95, but without WCW Nitro there to give them a kick in the pants, wrestling spirals downward and becomes another obscure curiosity like roller derby. There is no late-'90s comeback and none of what we have now. ECW would have served a niche but that would have been the extent of it.

I love these "What If" threads, and I think this is a good one. According to lore, John Cena was almost fired before he impressed Stephanie McMahon by doing freestyle rapping on a bus. Whether bullshit or not, everything about WWE changes if that happens. Who becomes the "face that runs the place" instead of Cena? Can anyone match Cena's longevity, merchandise sales, years of great matches, etc.? Does Cena end up as "just another face in the crowd" in TNA, where he makes no difference at all? Between the trainwreck management and the fact that Cena wasn't yet a main eventer and "Super Cena," he's unlikely to get the WWE nostalgia act World Title push most others received. See: Punk, CM. Do we get several more years of Triple H on top? So many "what ifs" and potential ramifications.

Don't forget Stone Cold Steve Austin's cringe-worthy "I see sand people" promo directed at Hassan and Daivari. Still arguably the lowest point of Austin's career.

I caught debut of the Velveteen Dream (Patrick Clark). I'm not quite sold on the gimmick, and Clark doesn't seem entirely comfortable with it yet, but he was much more impressive in the ring than I was expecting him to be.

Meltzer apparently said Lita was being considered as a commentator for the tournament. I hope not! She's awful in that role.

From "that Indian guy" to WWE Champion...wow.