Cap

This is the year I took my fandom to another level. I will always think of it as the year I got into lucha and joshi. I will always remember it as the year I started to really dive into some 80s sets and expose myself to a ton of wrestling I had never really watched before. I rewatched a lot of stuff that I really enjoyed from the past. I more or less rewatched all my favorites from 80s and 90s All Japan as well as ROH and all my favorite WWE and WCW/Crockett matches (and added new favorites in all four). I really found myself going on tears at certain times of the year. I went on dives into wrestlers and time periods. I started documenting more of it in terms of reviews and ratings (more just to keep track than anything else). Most of this was inspired by jumping on the board as the GWE was hitting the homestretch and watching that stuff play out. In all, it was a fantastic wrestling year for me, reminding myself why I like wrestling so much and discovering lots of new (to me) stuff. Oddly though I didn't get to watch a lot of current wrestling outside the wwe products. I watched some indy stuff and a little Japan. I also randomly ran into some recent lucha stuff on youtube, but most of my non-wwe watching was stuff from the past. It isn't even that I love the WWE right now. It is a matter of access and focus. I can sort of turn it on and follow and do work. If I turn on something older I often find myself wanting to focus on it, same goes for indy wrestling (current or past). I guess this how I would have my awards right now and for reasons listed above they are very mainstream American-centric, and sort of off the top of my head. Wrestler of the Year: AJ Styles - Runner Up 1: Chris Hero - Runner up 2: Brian Kendrick Women's Wrestler of the Year: Becky Lynch Runner Up 1: Asuka Runner Up 2: Sasha Banks Match of the Year: Trauma 1 vs Canis Lupus (9/4) - Runner up 1: DIY vs The Revival (11/19) - Runner up 2: Hero vs Gresham (2/28) - Runner up 3: Zayn vs Nakamura (4/1) - Runner up 4: Styles vs Nakamura (1/4) - Runner up 5: Styles vs Reigns (5/22) - Runner up 6: Owens vs Zayn (7/24) - Runner up 7: Kendrick vs Ibushi (8/26) Tag Team of the Year: The Revival - Runner up 1: American Alpha Rising Star: Matt Riddle Angle/Feud of the Year: Styles vs Cena Runner up 1: CWC Opens New Doors Runner up 2: Samoa Joe vs William Regal *edited to update match of the year list

I was actually just coming here to say I also really dislike Mundo/Nitro. I have been slowly finally working my through LU season 1 (yes I know) and I just really don't like him. He brings the show down a notch for me. Oddly, I am not a huge ricochet/Puma fan either. He isn't nearly as offensive to my eyeballs as mundo is, but I don't get excited when I see him on a card like some people do. I generally like him better in LU than I do on the average indy show though.

In response to JVK, Sure... people trash stuff all over the place and I dont have any problem with you thinking Lucha sucks. I have read some of what you have written about lucha, especially some of the high end stuff and completely understand why you don't like it. That is 100% fine. But people's response was at least to some degree about the context. This is thread about why one style is perceived as superior in a forum that at least ostensibly is one that privileges civil discourse and a willingness to dive into the complexity of wrestling. Quest: Why does puro generally get more praise than lucha? Answer: Because lucha sucks... Nope. That is a statement about why YOU don't like lucha (because you have tried and don't like it), but that doesn't tell us much about the actual question, why lucha doesn't resonate more broadly. Of course your position unfolded a little bit with the thread in terms of tastes, but it can't be a surprise that people responded the way they did to it.

oh, ok... that makes sense.

I think this is probably true, but how do we parse out why different styles/genres are more widely lauded without talking about fan reception and reaction? I agree that it is probably emphasized a bit more than it should be. The question seems to be about reception and reaction, about this "tribalism" at least as much and probably more than it is bout anything inherent in the wrestling itself. Ultimately, I am agreeing with you I just don't see how that is bothersome or problematic in the context of the thread. it seems quite appropriate here.

It is unfortunate that some of the more culturally oriented analyses of the question have gotten bogged down in politically potent language. I too sort of roll my eyes at the notion that we are dealing with imperialism here, but I think there is undoubtedly something that extends beyond wrestling proper that shapes how puro developed vs how lucha developed and how people consume them (yes, I know its imperialist language). The storytelling, the execution, the development of characters, the in ring style… all of that is unquestionably molded and shaped by culture dialectically engaged with the product. Sure there are cross cultural influences and some of that might not be completely separate from issues of power and influence. However, it is always tricky frame these things in terms of imperialism and (potentially) racism and so on because ultimately… its wrestling. It is a niche entertainment that certainly isn’t void of politics, but those conversations have such heavy connotations, often and unjustly the connotation of evil political intentions. I just don’t think that shirt fits wrestling well. Ultimately, the old post GWE stuff by Dylan on the topic was – I thought – compelling and somewhat thought provoking, but I probably fall short of buying into the political weight of imperialism being a way to explain what we saw from the list or a way to answer the question here. I am not sure it can be conflated to imperialism, but I am also not sure it can be reduced to taste. Taste comes from somewhere. It isn’t arbitrary. We are also dealing with collectives. The question – at least on my reading – isn’t why does one person like one style more than another. It is why do these patterns exist? I agree 100% that taste is pretty much primary here, but does it really explain why puro seems favored more widely than lucha. To me – and this is honestly more a different frame/orientation than a drastically different argument – it is more about narratives and storytelling and our ability (or lack there of) to grapple with storytelling forms that are radically different than our own. That – of course - is not unrelated to imperialism, globalization, identity politics, and so on; it just doesn’t frame wrestling in the with the same political weight. For some, lucha doesn’t feel that different (clearly from this thread), but for me it did at first. I have only relatively recently got into lucha, maybe the last year or so and it took me a minute. I honestly had to start with high-end stuff and work backwards in a way. The logic of the match just didn’t make sense to me at first. The characters and their personalities were evident, but I struggled to figure out why matches were progressing like they were and I did struggle to get into the grace and cooperation of the matches. I also wanted more high impact moves. Then I just went all in on high end lucha and fell in love with it. It took me getting into one-on-one lucha brawls before I could really understand what I was seeing in other lucha matches. Lucha brawls were the right balance of violence and drama to help me get into the style more broadly. After understanding lucha brawls better and watching more high end ones I slowly but surely really came to like and appreciate the way drama is built in lucha more generally. Some of the tropes that were lost on me earlier made sense and the strengths of lucha started to become even more pronounced. Again…that took time. I imagine I am not the only one who had to struggle through it a bit before they got it. On the other hand it looks like there are lots of people who have given it a real try and just don’t dig it. We literally have more wrestling available to us right now than we could ever tire of, so there are probably a lot of people uninterested in struggling through a genre that may require upfront investment or that they may not intuitively get.

Misawa is going to lose to Angle today.... ..... sigh In all honestly, it has been relatively fun watching it unfold, but it is also a bit maddening. I think the takeaway - if there is one here - is how prominent the WWE's narrative is in how people justify their picks. The results have been and will continue to be predictably WWE-centric, no surprise there, but the company's talking points are coming up a lot more than I expected (maybe naively).

Just watched this. I thought it was quite a fun match. You know when Park has the all white on against Santo we are going to get a lot of blood. The highlight is Park's control through the middle. The early start for Santo is solid, but the first pin comes a little too fast for my taste. The second fall felt a little more complete. Park had to work for it and they were all in on bloody brawl by this point. The final fall was good, but didn't quite hit the level of drama and urgency that separates a good lucha brawl from a great lucha brawl. I didn't mind that they worked some wrestling and grappling into the brawl a little, but it didn't add much and it really could have. I wasn't a huge fan of the finish. I could have done with out the screwiness, but it was likely fine or even good in the context of the match at the time. I also gave it ****1/4. What promotion is this?

Shit..... forgot about that. I assumed it still was, but maybe not?.... I am having a hard time figuring out what they cut from the main show or how they cut time. Is the preshow going to start at 9AM and the main card at noon?

I am sort of in the middle on this. I still like Owens a good bit and I generally like when he is on my TV, but I think he has been running against the wind in 2016. I agree completely that he started hot in NXT and I think more or less his whole run there was pretty good. He probably even overachieved to be honest. The Cena feud was fun and better than I would have imagined 1 month earlier. They probably went a bit heavy handed on the indy style. I bet those matches hold up better over time in a vacuum than they do in the moment. They bleed together a good bit in the moment, but I can imagine in a year or two scrolling through and enjoying some of them a lot. Still, it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and - even in victory - he really couldn't work as the monster he was in NXT. Stylistically he became just another indy guy with big offense. Agreed that some of the luster came off. My biggest problem was the stoogy stuff he did in the aftermath. They clearly had no idea what to do with him, but they wanted to use him. He felt lost, goofy, not at all an ass kicker for months. This whole period was more or less lost to me all the way up to the point where he wont the title and his relationship with Jericho hit its stride. I loved his comedy stuff with Jericho. I thought the snarky heel champ and his buddy shtick was good. They were fairly nuanced in their promos an it was effective. The fans were eating it up (and I don't think that was all Jericho) and I really believe that a lot of people were invested in him losing the title. He has been a good heel champion that people legit want to see lose, but still want to see on their screens. I also really liked the aesthetic change he took on after getting the title. He cleaned himself up and a lot of times he really did feel like a prize fighter, like a lot of MMA fighters who would clearly rather be wearing a T-Shirt, but they are professional badasses and now they have money so they clean up and they act like a champion. He was performing a champion that earned his glory but wasn't quite comfortable with it. In terms of putting together a character that was a little different and resonated with him as a person and a long time charicter, he was pretty well balanced and interesting. Now, here are the two problems for me. First and foremost, those last two points didn't work well together. They could, but i do think there was some dissonance. Owens needs to be a heel that has a pretty prominent strand of ass kicker, a heel that wins clean and hurts people or at least hurts people and only cheats to get out at the absolute last minute in certain spots. The Jericho friendship, as fun as it has been, has overemphasized his need for help and under-emphasized Owens the ass kicker champion. The WWE wants the comedy from Owens (and they should) and they want the guy who makes himself stand out, the brutal, violent guy who is different (and they should), but I am not sure they are putting him in spots to do both very effectively at once. The other problem is that he can - as discussed above - he can underperform in big matches and he does tend to throw everything into every match. I see flashes. The ass kicker is in there and Owens can bring it out at the right moment. For example, I though the HIAC match was really quite good and mostly because I thought he turned up the intensity and that match felt different to me. The Zayn match was fantastic, partially for the same reasons, but too often his Raw matches don't feel much different than his ppv matches. Personally, i would like it if he reigned in the in-ring trash talk and the offense for most matches. I would like it if he wasn't so cute about things all the time and if that was more for special occasions. I would like it if he focused more on ass kicker and sprinkled the goofy comedy in a little more strategically. All that would help differentiate matches and add layers. It all seems sort of jumbled to me right, but that stuff honestly is probably as much what the WWE is asking of him as anything. Ultimately, hat is why i kind of think Owens has been pretty good, even when I am not crazy about what I am seeing. Maybe I am giving him the benefit of the doubt or even a pass because I have been a fan for a while (quite likely), but I see him overachieving given the context and what he is given. He is a guy who pays attention to details and I like that. I like the little things he does to try to be different, to try to push things forward. Moreover he is someone who thinks of wrestling as creating moments (heard him say this more than once on podcasts and what not) rather than creating great matches. You can see that when he is building and when he is in matches. He wants to create the moment when you invest or you say holy shit. Unfortunately, the WWE hasn't always been great at helping him do that with where they have put him and they have overexposed him with their model. It is hard to create moments when you are on TV as much as he is and that could explain his wrestling style and him going all in on RAW matches as much as PPV matches. To me, many of my criticisms are more with the booking and I don't love they way he has adjusted to the WWE model, structurally, but I have generally enjoyed him on my TV and would rather see him evolve as champion a while longer than I would see them switch gears again.

What an incredible wrestling world we live in right now. It is absolutely bonkers. I have my trepidations about the WWE expanding its reach and influence, but it provides really wonderful opportunities for so many wrestlers (including Nigel, who so very much deserves a big stage and hopefully steady work with the E in the future) and a ton of easily accessible wrestling for us. I am pretty pumped about this. Side note, I have arbitrarily picked Trent Seven as my tourny favorite. I have not seen a single Trent Seven match (its on the docket for today), but i have a good buddy from Wolverhampton, and that is were Seven is from so that is good enough for me right now. You heard it here first, Trent Seven is the guy to watch.

Updated Brock vs Goldberg Rollins vs HHH Cena vs Taker (WWE Title) Reigns vs Balor (Universal Title) Jericho vs Owens American Alpha vs Wyatts (SD Tag Titles) Charlotte v Sasha v Bayley (Raw Womens Title) Ambrose vs Zayne (IC Title vs U.S. non-title) Styles vs Shane* (Some weird stip) Preshow Rumble (won by Strowman or Joe) Cruiser Ladder Match Seamus/Cesaro vs New Day vs Enzo/Cass vs Club (Raw Tag Titles) Becky vs Bella (Sd Womens Title) *Lack of options for Styles on the whole if they do the title between Taker and Cena. I would rather them keep the belt on Styles, but then I am not sure who challenges him for the belt unless they make a trade or pull something else.

When I saw this a while back the first thing I thought was how eye rolly this would be on this board (and I completely agree with the eye rolling). I am guessing Michaels wins this over Austin or Taker. Flair could eek it out, but it is basically a race between the people who are king shit in the WWE's narrative.

My guess right now... Brock v Goldberg Cena v Taker Strowman v Reigns HHH v Rollins Jericho vs Owens Styles v Orton Shaq v Big Show Wyatts vs American Alpha New Day vs Enzo/Cass I can also see them doing Styles/Cena and Ambrose/Taker

I didn't read his posts as much a commentary on context and how it affects match quality (or more accurately match analysis/critique) as much as he is saying he NJPW is miles better than America right now. The context part is that he seems to be saying he gives WWE matches a break and maybe does give them a boost because they are in America rather than in japan, where standards are higher. I guess it is all context, but I am just reading the function of context a little differently. I love doing my own star ratings and watching and analyzing, but it is such a personal thing. They are really for me to organize my thoughts and my watching and no one else. Dave Meltzer's ratings have become far too influential, or at least foregrounded in online wrestling communities. And good for him for getting there, but its so clear he steers the conversation in some circles, even unintentionally. Even people who generally don't align with him or really think his analysis holds too much weight are in some ways required to address his ratings and his presence in the world of analyzing and discussing wrestling. I value surfing the 4.75 and 5* thread and the match reviews here much more because there is such a diversity of voices. I don't like reading reviews before I watch a match and I don't really like seeing what others have a match at before I rate it myself, but i do like looking at what other people see once I have watched a rated a match.

I would tend to agree this is the logical next step. I think Nak wins it back from Joe (but I assume it is either at the rumble or mania takeover shows) and Joe gets called up after that. Putting it in Japan would make great sense for the brand and would let them maybe put Joe in the rumble without him pulling double duty. Joe v Roman would be a lot of fun, and you are right that it writes itself, but I would rather him go to Smackdown first. Joe vs Styles in 2016 would be such an awesome and different match than we have seen from them in the past. Joe vs Cena is something people want to see (myself included).

I had to get to these shows over the span of a few days and I wanted to rewatch the tag match and the title match from NXT before I commented on them. Nothing really groundbreaking here, just my thoughts. I don't get the hate for the NXT show on the whole and I especially don't get the hate for the Nak/Joe match. I liked it fine on the first watch and really liked it on the second watch. They were stiff and Joe's counters, control runs were brutal. I love Joe as a monster, especially older, even stockier scary strong looking joe. I thought the work on the leg was pretty awesome. The one thing I really didn't like was Nak not selling the leg during his comebacks and his offensive flurries. Cory Graves tried hard to save it and he did his job, but nope... not my thing. They were hitting on all cylinders at the end I think and Joe taking the low rode, but still looking like a dangerous monster in his win was a fantastic second stage for this feud. They sold the big moves pretty well and were throwing them like haymakers at each other. I have also seen a lot of people (here and elsewhere) saying Nak isn't giving it everything, but that just seems like classic WWE getting in the ear of a guy, building up the intensity of the feud. Overall, I thought this was a really good to great match. It wasn't as good as the tag match, of course, but I really enjoyed it, very underrated match to me. I threw 4.75 snowflakes at the tag match. The rewatch put it to that level for me. The revival are just so good. The only thing I didn't LOVE is the finish, which kept it from the 5 to me. It was decisive and fun, but it was just a touch cheesy to cap off such an elite match for my taste. Still, this is absolute top stuff. I also thought the James/Asuka match was pretty good. I thought giving James a lot, but still giving Asuka the decisive win felt right. Asuka built her dominance on women that were going to the main roster and we hadn't really seen a compelling opponent for her in some time. We all knew the result, but they swerved a bit with the structure of the match and it worked for me. Survivor Series was fine, not great. The women's match was all over the place. Smackdown women looked better to me. The tag match was fine. The first half made sense and the last half was a blast. Seamus and Cesaro were great working with the Usos down that final stretch. The singles men match was pretty good I thought. They had lots of layers and entertaining spots. They really planned the match out fairly well. Elseworth hold Strowman out was awesome. The Reigns/Shane spot was bonkers and a little scary. They worked in the Owens/Jericho stuff and the Styles/Ambrose feud really well. i was pleasantly surprised that Bray was the one to finish it off. I want him to gain some momentum and this could do that (at least enjoy the idea). The main.... ohhh the main. I am not mad or bitter about it, but it felt like a waste of time to me. I get the logic of Brock underestimating Goldberg. I understand the arguments for this being a positive spectacle, but it just wasn't for me. They put a lot of time and energy into booking Brock Strong, ideally to for him to pass some of that on to others. He ended the streak and squashed Cena and they kept his shoulders off the mat. To me, the next time Brock gets pinned was supposed to feel more important and this - as shocking as it was - didn't feel satisfying. It is just bad storytelling. The great thing about wrestling though is that you always fix it. The story is never ending so the arches can be reset. Maybe this turns out for the best and clearly a lot of people dug it, but it just wasn't for me.

I really thought about that one too. I also like the idea of being a Chicana and Funk Deadhead. I would definitely also go back and get the early Bockwinkel stuff we don't have on tape.

I would also have to go watch as many 80s early 90s lucha shows as I could. I'd also go watch lots of live PR wrestling... especially that Hansen/Colon feud.

I had this thought the other day and thought it would be fun to ask here, hoping it hasn't been done and beaten to death. I have been thinking this over a bit as a dork-exercise. If you could time travel – after of course you kill the superbowl and bet on hitler or whatever - what matches or events would you move across time and space to see? Of course there are infinite ways to go about this, so I will just organize mine around 10 matches. Feel free to follow along or organize it in whatever way you want, obviously; you don’t need my permission. I’m just curious how people would prioritize live wrestling if they had every event at their disposal. I am choosing 10 because it a nice round number, gives me lots of matches to bullshit about, and is still really challenging Mine is more or less organized around getting to see my favorites at their peak. All of these matches are elite in my eyes, but more to the point I chose them because I wanted to see my favorite wrestlers ever at the top of their game so I spread my choices out a bit. Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (9/23/1983): The first match that came to mind when I asked myself this was Sangre Chicana vs MS-1. It is a “remember where you were” kind of match to me. It is absolute art. Sangre Chicana is one of my all time favorites and this match is more or less the biggest reason. I love his matches with Satanico and Aguayo, but this is another level. To see his comeback haymakers live… to see the drama of this unfold… to see the early beatdown with Chicana’s mom trying to take are of him… electric. This is just such a top tier match and it would be atop my list of matches to see live if in this situation. Shinobu Kandori vs Akira Hokuto (4/2/1993): This is another match that immediately came to mind, and another just absolute masterpiece. I feel like most people really focus on Hokuto in this feud and she is undeniably great, but Kandori is my favorite female wrestler ever and it may not be close. She has a handful of matches that I consider absolutely elite. She is one of the most balanced Joshi wrestlers I have ever seen. Her range is off the charts. This match speaks for itself and is 100% drama. I love it. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL (5/16/2004): I know I am the high vote on this match in every way, but I think it is absolutely one of the most perfect and stunning performances I have ever seen. Eddie Guerrero is absolutely fire the second he appears on screen to the second he goes off. I could pontificate about why I love this match forever (more time than I want to take here), but I will just leave it at this: this match transcendent to me. It blurred the lines between real and staged in a way you can’t buy or plan and the blood bath only helped play up the race/class politics of the narrative. This is one of my absolute favorite matches and an all-time performance from Eddie Stan Hansen/Terry Gordy vs Genichiro Tenryu/Toshiaki Kawada (12/16/1988): There are just so many All Japan matches I was considering and this made the cut for two main reasons. 1. It is one of my favorite tag team matches ever and 2. It includes four guys I would really like to see perform. I could/maybe should have made the move to include HDA vs Kobashi/Misawa match, but I loved the Hansen/Gordy team so much and this was their finest hour against two all time greats. Plus, this is a pretty top shelf performance from Kawada on the whole. I almost included Tenryu vs Jumbo from 5/6/89 here – a match I probably like better on the whole – but I am not sure I would have found room for Kawada or Gordy if that were the case. Kenta Kobashi vs Mitsuharu Misawa (1/20/1997): Kenta Kobashi is one of my absolute favorites and I suspect would be one of the most enjoyable live wrestlers to ever walk God’s green. This is my favorite match of theirs; it just absolutely electric and fun from start to finish. The big fight feel, the mythos of Misawa, the connection Kobashi had with the crowd, I had to include something high profile from here and this was it. This might be my favorite feud ever and I had to include one of these matches. Nick Bockwinkel vs Curt Hennig (11/21/1986): God I love Nick Bockwinkel and God I love this match. This is probably my favorite time limit match, just a masterpiece that builds layers and nuance with the best of them. When I was a kid I always had a high opinion of Hennig as well so to see him here (at probably his best) would also be a lot of fun. This is one that gets extra points for really being probably a top 10 match of all time to me too. I just cant speak highly enough of it. Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness (8/12/2006): I have droned on elsewhere about why Danielson is my favorite ever, so I will save it. I have had the good fortune to see quite a few times in some awesome matches, but this is in my opinion his absolute best. I know it gets mixed reviews, but this was – in my mind – just a wonderful match, where just about everything was done right. Plus, the crowd during this match is melt-your-face hot and I would love to be part of that, especially to be one of the few dissenting Dragon supporters. El Dandy vs El Satanico (12/14/1990): I really wanted to include Dandy/Santo/Casas here, but Satanico has become one of my favorite wrestlers over the last few years. I also really wanted to include the Satanico/Cochise match, but early ‘90s El Dandy might just be the best performer ever. This wasn’t really a “compromise” as much as it was a realization that I not only love this match, but it was perfect for this list. This is probably my second or third favorite lucha match, just electric drama. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (4/2/1989): My list wouldn’t be complete without a match from this trilogy and the 2/3 falls match is ultimately my favorite. I really love and am somewhat tempted by some of their earlier matches, but I have to go with this one. I am not going to say anything that hasn’t been said before so I will just leave it at “this is art – I love it – I want to see it” Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (7/29/1993): Ok… for my 10th match I cheated my own layout a little. There are plenty of reasons for me to not pick this match. I probably should put one of the Lawler/Dundee matches or Robinson/Baba or Funk/Tsuruta or Hart/Austin or any number of matches with people I have left out. Hell, I might even like the Kawada/Hansen match a little better, but these aren’t just two of the best wrestlers ever and not just two of my favorite… they have to be two of the most high energy fun wrestlers and this is the kind of match that makes you forget you aren’t a kid wrestling fan. It isn’t my favorite match ever, but it is a match I could watch 100 times and never tire of and I can’t imagine many matches would be more pure-wrestling-kid-in-a-candy-store-fun to watch live.

It is actually Sting for me too. Sting was my favorite as a kid and even when I first started looking at wrestling more critically I thought (and still think really) he did a lot of really good things in matches and had the ability to really take a main event match spectacular. I have probably partially soured on him from burnout, but Sting's just doesn't have the same in ring appeal that he did before for me and a lot of things i like about wrestlers now are things he just didn't excel out for the most part. He also didn't age well. Whereas some wrestlers changed their style to put on just as good - if not better - matches as they get older and more efficient, I found most of what I have seen from him late in his career to be an absolute, and often unwatchable mess. Angle is another one. This one is really simple and predictable and in no way novel. I really liked that he was fresh and different. He was an exceptional athlete and he worked hard. He had some matches that were really fun in the moment. The matches just don't hold up as well to me, but that is kind of all of the Attitude Era to me. Nigel McGuinness was pretty high on my list during his Pure title Run and his ROH title run. I love how hard he works and his commitment. I think he has a hand full of great matches that have held up really well for me, but he is in some ways the embodiment of some of the things I soured on about Indy wrestling on the whole and I really don't like his jawbreaker lariat. I still think he is a case of somewhat tragic lost potential, but he doesn't stand out in that group as much as he used to. Part of that is honestly what has happened sense shaping the past and part of that might just be the ebbs and flows of my taste. Either way, I am not as high on Nigel as I used to be.

I hope you are right. My response to the finish says a lot more about me than him (or anyone involved). I obviously don't know the dude. I always just read a subtext of "I want a big win" into his discussion of "the right situation" when he talked about a comeback. Regardless, I hope he comes back and I hope we get a Brock match. I think it sounds like a ton of fun. It would be hard to be a lot worse than what they did at Mania, so at least they could improve on that.

oops.... repeat post

I hate to harp on results. I really do, but when I first heard this I rolled my eyes because I can't imagine Goldberg coming back just to put Brock over. However, it is the only result that makes big picture sense. The match itself - with this Brock in this wwe - could and should be really good it if happens, but it is one of those cases where wins and loses do matter some. If Goldberg is willing to come in and put Brock over, I am all in, otherwise this just seems like it kills what is left of Brocks momentum and aura for next to nothing. A one off DQ or double count out would be equally unsatisfying. Brock's endgame probably still should be Reigns, unless they were willing to switch focus to someone else. I always thought Zayn could do it, but they don't seem interested in that and he is far away from climbing the mountain in a way that makes that payoff worth the build. They painted themselves in a little bit of a corner with him, but they could still pay it all of with any number of guys (Rollins, Styles, or Ambrose among the first I think of), but the problem is they really need/want a face for it and most of the best guys for it are heels or real grey area characters right now.

yeah, that corkscrew moonsault made me yell "holy shit" in my living room at breakfast and my wife started laughing at me in her office. dork moment