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I'm a hige mark for Bret and this statement is ridiculous to me. Even Crna has more **** matches. Well star ratings are very subjective. I have 3 Cena singles matches at **** or higher vs. 10 for Bret at **** or higher. Are you serious? Yes. I know you are about to mention Flair so here is some evidence (mind you this is all very subjective): ****+ matches Bret Hart: vs. Steve Austin * 2 vs. Davey Boy Smith * 2 vs. Owen Hart vs. The Undertaker vs. 123 Kid vs. Randy Savage vs. Terry Funk vs. Diesel Total: 10 Ric Flair vs. Steamboat * 3 vs. Morton vs. DiBiase Total: 5 Actually GAB vs. Terry Funk so make that 6 for Flair. 10 vs. 6

I'm a hige mark for Bret and this statement is ridiculous to me. Even Crna has more **** matches. Well star ratings are very subjective. I have 3 Cena singles matches at **** or higher vs. 10 for Bret at **** or higher. Are you serious? Yes. I know you are about to mention Flair so here is some evidence (mind you this is all very subjective): ****+ matches Bret Hart: vs. Steve Austin * 2 vs. Davey Boy Smith * 2 vs. Owen Hart vs. The Undertaker vs. 123 Kid vs. Randy Savage vs. Terry Funk vs. Diesel Total: 10 Ric Flair vs. Steamboat * 3 vs. Morton vs. DiBiase Total: 5

Yeah nothing beats this. As a turn, I'm sure it was just as shocking live (if not more) than Hogan at Bash at the Beach but it initiated that incredible late 96-97 CMLL run with tons of great matches and a few all timers, many of which had beautiful storytelling. While the whole NWO deal was garbage and an embarrassment to wrestling.

Bret and no one else even comes close. IMO, of the people who primarily worked in the US, he has more great singles matches (****+) than anyone ever except Daniel Bryan. Plus the environment he worked in wasn't exactly conducive to great in ring work so bonus points for that. Benoit would be second. Followed by Owen, Martel and Jericho (in that order).

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Angle induction just seems completely out of the blue. He hasn't been anywhere near WWE since 2006. Did people suspect it was going to happen or what is an out of nowhere surprise?

I went Valentine/Piper. I honestly think this smokes the usual highly acclaimed 80s US brawls (Sheik/Slaughter, DiBiase/Duggan, Duggan/Sawyer, basically all of them.). Supremely violent, includes creative use of the chain and the stuff with Piper's ear is legendary.

What is the best decade in pro wrestling history? This is a loaded question since some people have seen more from one decade than another and because of footage issues for older decades but still. Define your own criteria: matches, booking, angles etc. etc. Personally, I'm going to go with the 90s and it's not even close. The sheer variety and quality of matches is unmatched.

Jumbo vs. Tenryu (6/5/89) - The ancestor of modern mainstream wrestling. A more outside the box choice: Batista vs. Mark Henry (1/6/2006) - Batista got injured and was out for 10 months. This basically made and solidified Cena as the sole top dog in WWE and the rest is history.

His star rating system is inherently bizarre and perplexing. He has mentioned that a **** match that happened in WWE would be a ***1/4 match in NJPW. By that logic a ***1/2 NJPW match is better than a **** WWE match. Which means the number of stars he gives out is actually not even proportional to the quality of the match.

My current classifications - *****: A transcendent piece of pro wrestling. Would be a lock for an all time Top 50 list, likely make the Top 25. **** 3/4: An absolute all time classic that ranges from strong MOTYC to MOTD. Would be a lock for an all time Top 100 list, probably make the Top 50. **** 1/2: A superb, outstanding match that is a solid MOTYC in most years. The higher end matches in this category have an extremely good chance of finishing in a Top 100 list. **** 1/4: A fantastic match that could range from low end MOTYC level to a strong MOTYC level, depending on how loaded the year is. Wouldn't make a Top 100 but is worth watching many, many times. ****: The threshold for a match to truly be considered great. *** 3/4: A really good match that borders on the great. *** 1/2: A very good match. Anything at or above this level is truly high quality stuff. *** 1/4: A good match that executes what it aimed to achieve quite well. I often give this rating to highly pimped matches that I found very disappointing but still enjoyed quite a bit. ***: A decent/pretty good match that is worth watching.

Yoshida's 1999 run is pretty insane. ARSION, BattlARTS and RINGS are the saving graces of late 90s pro wrestling.

Daniel Bryan seems like an obvious choice.

On PWO maybe but not necessarily in other circles. If you posted that list on reddit or something, where the vast majority only watch WWE, it wouldn't look that aberrant. Only the Trish matches would raise a few eyebrows.

I can't wait until Reigns wins the world title again. They should have him retire Taker or something and make him the undisputed ace of Raw or the company. I know this is pretty spiteful but I really find the 24/7 complaining and the grass is greener syndrome of many WWE fans grating. "He is being made to look far too strong as US Champion, have Jericho beat him for the title" " Oh no he is no longer US champion, he is just going to be inserted back into the main event scene" Well which is it?

My issue with that match is that it's pretty much the least of the Hashimoto-Choshu matches. It's either that one or their Z-1 match. Both are good but disappointing for the insane standards of their all time rivalry. It's funny, going through the Hashimoto-Choshu matches that one seemed kinda formulaic, it was kinda depressing seeing the same spots they've done before done not as good, it seemed like the magic was gone, then they had that badass brawl in 2001 that was up there with all of their great stuff. I think that saying "the magic was gone" is wildly overstating things, but I do agree that this is not the best Choshu vs. Hash match of all time. It is, however, still my favourite epic NJPW Dome match and a great example of the kind of big epic battle that I enjoy. It's a matter of personal taste, of course, but in my book a lesser Choshu vs. Hash match is still more enjoyable and more suited to what I want from a big card main event than, say, the best-ever Tanahashi vs. Okada match or even the best-ever Shinsuke vs. Ibushi match. I like "everything is a real struggle" and I like "doing more with less" and I really like "taking your time with the basics and letting the crowd come to you" and I think this match is great in all of those categories. I'm kind of surprised I'm the only one who has picked it, to be honest. Oh you're not gonna get much disagreement with me about it being better than most recently hyped big Dome matches but for best Dome match ever I'd say Hashimoto-Takada and Hashimoto-Ogawa from 10/11/99 display that minimalistic philosophy even better. I'd add Hashimoto vs.Ogawa 4/7/2000 to the list of truly great Hashimoto Dome matches. In fact I think it's the best match of the Hashimoto-Ogawa feud. The booking wasn't exactly wise but the match built off 10/99 and the rest of the matches perfectly and delivered on every other level.

I get what you are saying but it's probably for the same reason most people's GWE rankings weren't just an ordered list of their favorites. The "Even though I would much rather watch Wrestler A, Wrestler B had a better career and etc." principle translates to matches as well "Even though Match A was more fun to watch, Match B had better pacing/transitions/psychology etc. etc and so I gave it the higher rating.". Trying to maintain some sort of objectivity I guess. Even though objectivity in wrestling is an extremely blurry concept because what people consider great varies a lot.

Glad you liked it. While I'll agree the first half was definitely better, I'll say I think the second half was earned given how the match unfolded. Initially, Inoue used his heel antics to gain the advantage but after they failed him, he still had the determination and guts to continue fighting traditionally even though he realistically had no chance. I thought the cradles were actually great false finishes to get across the point that the arrogant Akiyama might get caught out. I also liked Inoue popping up repeatedly out of defiance and essentially demanding to put down as a equal. Atleast that's how I interpreted it.

While their August match is a great **** affair, this was on another level. Felt like a hybrid between DreamRush and a Midnight Express-RnR bout. They escalated the intensity and drama well and brilliantly played off their previous match. Iconic finish too. **** 1/4

Strongly agree with this. The first two falls are shockingly poor. It seems like they were just killing time until the double chair spot. Everything after is pretty great though. I would give *** 1/2 - *** 3/4 for the whole deal. Very good but not great. Nowhere near MOTD level for me.

Not being judgmental or anything since this is all subjective but the idea of a green Koshinaka (who I like mind you) going to Mexico in 84 and having to carry Satanico to a good match is the most bizarre thing I have ever heard in wrestling. Also in no way was Koshinaka the babyface. Anyways, I am probably the only one who thinks this match is not just great, but one of the best of all time. Unique and brilliantly executed story of the Local anti-hero vs. evil foreigner. Perfectly paced and structured. Amazing brawling and selling. Clever Finish too. *****

Based on my top ranked matches, I decided to do a very quick, mini version of Loss's project. Just like any kind of list like this, this is a constant work in progress. My Top 25 Matches of the 1990s 25) Black Tiger II vs. Wild Pegasus (NJPW, 6/11/1996) 24) Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. (WCW, 10/26/1997) 23) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Volk Han (RINGS, 9/26/1997) 22) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Volk Han (RINGS, 9/25/1996) 21) Etsuko Mita/Mima Shimoda vs. Kaoru Ito/Tomoko Watanabe (AJW, 9/21/1997) 20) Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue (AJPW, 4/15/1995) 19) Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (WWF, 3/23/1997) 18) El Hijo del Santo vs. Negro Casas (CMLL, 9/19/1997) 17) Jushin Liger vs. The Great Sasuke (NJPW, 4/16/1994) 16) Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW, 6/3/1994) 15) Akira Hokuto/Aja Kong vs. Dynamite Kansai/Yumiko Hotta (AJW, 8/24/1994) 14) Manami Toyota/Toshiyo Yamada vs. Dynamite Kansai/Mayumi Ozaki (AJW, 4/11/1993) 13) Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano (NJPW, 1/31/1990) 12) Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi (AJPW, 1/20/1997) 11) Akira Hokuto vs. Shinobu Kandori (AJW, 4/2/1993) 10) Akira Hokuto/Shinobu Kandori vs. Aja Kong/Bull Nakano (AJW, 3/27/1994) 9) Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WWF, 3/20/1994) 8) El Hijo del Santo vs. El Dandy vs. Negro Casas (CMLL, 12/6/1996) 7) Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (WWF, 9/22/1996) 6) El Hijo del Santo/Octagon vs. Eddie Guerrero/Art Barr (AAA, 11/6/1994) 5) Jushin Liger vs. El Samurai (NJPW, 4/30/1992) 4) Manami Toyota/Toshiyo Yamada vs. Dynamite Kansai/Mayumi Ozaki (AJW, 11/26/1992) 3) El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca (EMLL, 6/1/1990) 2) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Yoshihisa Yamamoto (RINGS, 6/24/1999) 1) Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (AJPW, 6/9/1995)

This match is so great. Terrific mat exchanges throughout, great big brother-little brother dynamic between Otsuka and Yone, Otsuka being his usual awesome self in general. Liked all the double team moves and saves as the match escalated. Plus Yone's look of shock after he managed to secure the win was a visual for the ages. **** 1/4 Great thread, by the way. Carl Greco is very underrated. I don't consider him to be near the level of Ishikawa/Otsuka/Ikeda but he is still very good, particularly on the mat.

Incredible charisma + Incredible skill. His match with Americo Rocca from 1/27/1984 is one of the great matches I have ever seen. His overall greatness was easily evident despite the limited amount of footage. RIP.

You are the one who derailed the entire thread with your pointless hot take (lucha mostly sucks) and then got defensive when people called you out for it. Obviously people are going to get upset and look for explanations when you arrogantly dismiss an entire genre. Then you accuse lucha fans of being thin skinned even though any criticism of 80s US wrestling or Ric Flair or anything you regard highly causes you to respond in a hostile manner. This is not a personal attack on you but I wanted to point out some of the hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance. My take on the topic is this: Classic puro is very similar to American wrestling so it is very easy for people to get into it. Lucha is its own thing, a completely unique style and genre and so is completely new to people used to American wrestling. Some people are able to get into it, some aren't. Simple as that.

Let's not get too carried away here This company. 46 year old son of the owner going toe to toe with a monster heel and the future ace.