Tim Cooke

If you like shoot style, Yoshida is ARSION in 1999 is excellent. Most Bull Nakano 1991-1995 is worth seeing. I like the Kong/Satamura matches from 99-01. AJW 4/7/85 Asuka vs Nagayo has maybe the greatest heat I've ever heard for a match (and the match is excellent as well)

The infamous 3/4's legit match that sent Lance Storm into a tizzy in 2001

Virus Dr. Cerebro Bryan Danielson CM Punk (yes...I think his 2011-2014 run is good enough for this list) Aerostar Ultimo Guerrero Tanahashi (he's been in far more good than bad...and his good has been good enough to break into a list that really isn't top heavy at all) AJ Styles Black Terry Negro Navarro

Completely agree with this. Just aren't enough truly skilled guys to pull off long matches. But you can say that about the top level of any performance or sport.

I always air on the side of shorter being better. Leave the audience wanting more.

AJPW - not even close and I'm a big ROH 2002-2006 fan

Track down his 1990 trios matches from March-May. Good introduction and if you like that stuff, you will have no problem diving into his singles work.

The first Japanese promotion I really did a deep dive on was Michinoku Pro, particularly 1996-1997. MPro formed when Hamada’s UWF folded and the Great Sasuke wanted to keep the style (sometimes coined as lucharesu as a playoff of words from puroresu). 1993-1995 is traditionally booked for a Japanese company. Super Delphin was the lead rudo (for the most part) and had an extended feud with Dick Togo (Sato) that built to a Mask vs. Mask match. Lots of comedy carrying over from Lucha in the early years. Jinsei Shinazaki was featured prominently from 1994-1995. MPro had a working relationship with PWFG and BattlArts from 1994-1997 and would often exchange talent. 1996 through early 1997 was the height of Michinoku Pro from a storyline, heat, and work rate perspective. I don’t want to give spoilers so I’m going to give tape recommendations. I also highly recommend watching in order – none of the storylines are complicated (in fact, the Sasuke Sekigun vs. Kaientai feud was basically a junior’s version of Choshu’s Army versus All Japan). The feud was at its best in 10-man tags, but there are plenty of trios and singles matches worth seeing. In general, the commercial tapes either show complete matches or abbreviated highlights. Every match that you want and need to see in full is available on the DVD’s below. Michinoku Pro: Sasuke & Me Commercial Tape 3/15/96-6/23/96 Follows the beginning of the storyline of Delphin turning technico while MPro loyalists Taka and Funaki are swayed to the rudo side by Dick Togo Michinoku Pro: Crisis in Lucha Paradise Commercial Tape 6/8/96 – 6/23/96 Kaientai DX forms Michinoku Pro: Sekai (World) Senshuken (Championship Title) Series Commercial Tape 7/21/96 – 8/25/96 The rise of KDX; Jushin Liger stops by Michinoku Pro: Heartbreak in Japan Commercial Tape 9/23/96 – 12/20/96 KDX run rampant over MPro Michinoku Pro These Days Commercial Tape 10/10/96 Anniversary Show Samurai TV Debut Show 12/1/96 10-man tag from MPro Michinoku Pro: Champ Forum 12/10/96 taped 12/9 Osaka 10-man elimination match Michinoku Pro Battle Station taped 1/14/97 Sapporo Nakajima Taiiku Center Michinoku Pro on FIGHTING TV SAMURAI! 3/30/97 Sakura Sakura '97 taped 3/1/97 Osaka Rinkai Sports Center 5 on 5 blow off series (the juniors version of the 3/13/86 Choshu vs All Japan singles series) Misc: * February 97 Battlarts show: 8-man KDX vs Sasuke Sekigun from Korukuen Hall with some blood * I think there is a good August 1997 8-man with Oriental from CMLL that is on the 1997 yearbook which is worth watching I’m going to go through my notes at home tonight to see if I am missing anything.

Sandman returning to the ECW Arena in October 1999 is my answer to both questions. It was incredible live. In fact, it's my favorite live experience from any form of entertainment and I still go back to watch it a few times a year. Some others.... RVD had an amazing connection with the crowd when I went to eight ECW Arena shows in 99-2000. Fans would chant "RVD" hours before the show while waiting in line. And this didn't just happen once or twice. It was every single time. Then there was the time they chanted "Van Terminator." Yes, they chanted for a move that hadn't even been seen yet. That's how over RVD was. You kind of had to be there to truly appreciate just how much that audience loved RVD. Loudest pops other than Sandman's return are just any time I saw Austin at the Baltimore Arena from 98-00. The roof blew off the place every single time. As an Austin hater back then, I gave up booing the man like 5 seconds after seeing him for the first time. It was a futile endeavor. My feeble little boos were never going to catch on. Flair had a great connection with the Baltimore crowd at the August 2002 Raw show I attended. Dark "match" was a Flair/HHH brawl with the crowd just going nuts for Naitch. But the coolest part happened afterward when I heard "WOOOO's" and saw people strutting around downtown Baltimore well into the wee hours of the morning. And I can't forget about Cheetah Master at all those early 2000s ECWA shows I attended. During the (awesome) Cheetah vs. Nana cage match I realized this was as close as I was ever gonna get to seeing Lawler in Memphis or the Von Erichs in Texas so I just embraced the glorious absurdity of it all. Yeah agreed some of the loudest pops I've ever witnessed live were for RVD and Sandman at ECW Arena. The loudest pop I've ever witnessed was at an ROH show at the Arena from like 08. It was a 3 way steel cage match and Delirious stabbed Daize Hayes with a spike. For some reason the building went fucking nuts. Kind of unsettling. As for best connection with the crowd it would be RVD back in ECW or Danielson on his indy/ ROH run. They were working smaller buildings sure, but they had the entire crowd just eating out of the palm of their hand. Biggest ROH pop I witnessed live was when Aries beat Joe for the ROH title. Really should have included that in my original post. The place came unglued. A few hundred people sounded like 10,000+. That finishing stretch + pop makes it my all time favorite live match (I've been to about 70 shows). It's my all time favorite ROH match as well. Joe, Punk, Dragon, Ki, Daniels, and even Aries all had a pretty good connection with ROH Philly crowds at one time or another, but those guys had NOTHING on 02-03 Paul London. Philly loved London during that period. We sort of adopted him as Our Guy. At least I know I did. He was the first true homegrown ROH star and it happened right before our eyes. The "Please Don't Die" chants in the ladder match with Shane....the near unanimous crowd support he had against Xavier during their woefully underappreciated Final Battle 2002 match.....People genuinely liked and cared about Paul London. Another indie name I'll throw out who had a special connection to his fans was Teddy Hart. Don't laugh! The Tedster had "it" more than any other indie guy I saw during my early-mid 2000s "drive 60 miles plus to an indie show a few times a month" phase. There was no in between with Teddy. You either LOVED him or HATED him. And, tbh, he had like 80% rabid crowd support the handful of times I saw him live at CZW & JAPW shows. Cant believe I forgot London vs Danielson. Both the 12/7/02 and 4/12/03 matches. London had a special connection for those 9 months.

Final 5 minutes of Aries/Joe from December 2004 Liger in ROH in 2004 (both Boston and New York) Cage of Death 2006 (ROH)

Their match a week later that Rob uploaded is really good.

Flair 9/14/98

Laz gets Mando vs Fujinami from LA 1978 https://vimeo.com/252785910/fd2faf7cbe

I'd love to get in on this next week (or next time this happens)

I echo everyone else's thoughts. This is the only place I check out anything pro wrestling related and the MDA is maybe the most valuable "database" that I've seen since JDW's late 1999 AJPW/NJPW/WCW DVDVR Pimping Posts and Ballot.

Not unless we have specific examples of quality matches that we *know* he was responsible for.

11-28-87 WCW TBS Studio after clip of Flair getting the title back against Garvin

Anyone have an approximate month/year for this promo? http://www.vimeo.com/244710480

I wrote this a few years ago, didn't post it anywhere, and figure it could lead to some interesting discussion. ------------- There are many aspects of professional wrestling that keep me locked in as a fan, even during the down times in the creative and business ends in the US, Mexico, and Japan. The addition of the WWE Network, NWA Classics, and the continued evolution of wrestling shows and compilations being readily available on DVD and for direct download have kept my fandom as strong as ever. In 2015, there is a small group of fans who have coined the phrase grapplefuck, a term that tries to encapsulate modern day mat work that is performed by Timothy Thatcher, Drew Gulak, and a few others. Recent discussions on Twitter lead me to revisit what I like about the different stylings of mat work throughout pro wrestling history. The dilemma: modern day mat work, outside of lucha libre, is a dying art form. In part one of this series, I am going to take a look at the different stylistic versions of mat work that are available on tape and give some examples of my favorite matches that incorporate this style. Giant Baba vs. Destroyer (March 5, 1969 – JWA) When you think about mat work, the first name that comes to your head isn’t usually Giant Baba. But Baba, especially during his physical prime, was a very competent mat worker and when put together with someone who was his equal or better on the mat, the results tended to be great. This is the fairly infamous 59 minute match that first started circulating in 2001 amongst tape traders. Because they are working close to an hour draw, there is a lot of mat work to help fill the time in between the high spots of the era. Baba and Destroyer work masterful segments based around side headlock take overs, cross arm breakers, (yes, cross arm breakers in 1969!!) and leg scissor reversals that are played on and off again throughout the duration of the bout. Near the beginning of the match there is a five plus minute stretch where Baba keeps getting Destroyer into a head scissors on the ground. Destroyer comes up with multiple escapes, only to keep being put back in the hold. It’s a very simple but very effective way of killing time without laying around in rest holds. The match is mostly very simple mat work done with a technical prowess that allows the work to be state of the art in 1969 and still hold up quite well today. A side note on Baba working the mat: When Stan Hansen arrives in All Japan in December 1981, his first feud is with Baba. Baba was declining pretty fast physically but was able to keep up with Hansen’s frenetic pace by using smart mat work, mostly limb based on Hansen’s lariat arm, to be able to keep pace during these 10-12 minute sprints. The February 4, 1982 and June 31, 1984 matches are worth going out of your way to see. Other Matches in this style: Billy Robinson vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (March 5, 1977 – AJPW) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (February 21, 1989 – NWA) Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (March 12, 1994 – WCW) Destroyer vs. Mil Mascaras (July 25, 1974 – AJPW) With the cost of technology dropping, most people have access to smartphones and the requisite video capabilities. Since the mid-2000’s, Lucha Libre maestros matches have been making tape with more and more frequency. Black Terry Jr. (Jose Mares) has been a real pioneer in taping smaller, independent shows in Mexico and making them easily available to fans at a very reasonable cost. But let’s travel back to 1974 when two wrestlers from two different countries were matched up in Japan. The Destroyer was always known as a very good worker, who was very adept at working the mat. The reputation of Mil Mascaras was much different. Mascaras was known as someone who wasn’t easy to deal with, both in and out of the ring. His reputation lead to many overlooking his matches during his prime, where as long as he was in with an opponent that he respected, a good to great match could be worked and really stand out, especially for the time period. Destroyer and Mascaras work a competitive mat match, interspersed with some of Mil’s flying moves. Both guys wrestle in an almost non-cooperative way, not feeding each other holds like Baba and Destroyer would do, but looking for openings and taking them when they opened up. It wasn’t a shoot but it was also clear that both wrestlers were really doing some work in getting various holds and moves on. The result was a really high tech match, very much like the Baba/Destroyer match, that still holds up today. Other Matches in this style: Mil Mascaras vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (August 25, 1977 – AJPW) Negro Navarro vs. El Dandy (November 8, 2001 – IWRG) El Hijo del Santo vs. El Espanto Jr. (August 31, 1986 – UWA) El Hijo del Santo vs. El Espanto Jr. (April 10, 1988 – UWA) El Hijo del Santo vs. El Espanto Jr. (May 16, 1992 – UWA) Lucha Libre mat work can be the most beautiful style of mat work on earth but the style can also be challenging for people to get into, especially if your background is strictly in mainstream US wrestling. But when you are able to understand the small subtleties of Lucha (working from the left side of the body instead of the right, the idea of a performance that is free flowing, and a different bumping style), a whole new world of mat work opens up. Santo vs. Espanto is one of my favorite match up’s of all time, which is funny because we only got the first and third match on tape in the mid 2000’s, with the April 1988 match coming even later in 2008-2009. And the other but of footage we have with those two is a 1985 tag and some mid-90’s AAA matches, which don’t always feature strong mat work. There is little that needs to be said about Santo – he is a legend that was arguably as good as or better than his father[1]. His high spots are still impressive today but he was also an underrated mat worker. Santo had many formula mat spots, such as his spinning head scissors with his back on the mat that takes his opponent down[2] and his beautiful front face lock that he rolls through with to keep control of his opponent (see GIF). But as with most mat work, you need two to tango and Espanto does exactly what a good rudo does. He’s there to make the mat work from the technico look amazing, in addition to getting himself over at the same time. The main criticism that is often thrown at lucha is the mat work seems too cooperative. It’s not a completely invalid argument, but in most cases, it is a bias and something that a viewer can get used to and come to appreciate with watching a lot of matches over a period of time. When the Santo’s and Blue Panther’s and Solar’s of the world take it to the mat, you are usually in for a visual treat; something that hasn’t been incorporated into any other style of wrestling from around the world. Other Matches in this style: Atlantis vs. Blue Panther (December 5, 1997 – CMLL) El Hijo del Santo vs. Blue Panther (April 9, 2000 – Monterrey) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. [insert opponent name] (numerous – RINGS) Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter has repeatedly said that Tamura is the best mat worker he has ever seen, in being able to work on the mat in a way that looks as realistic as possible while still being a work.[3] In the late 90’s as Mixed Martial Arts was still evolving and far from the completely cross trained version that exists in 2015, the line between work and shoot was often unclear. The RINGS promotion in Japan, which opened in 1991 as a [Maeda not wanting pro wrestling anywhere near it], started running multiple shoot fights on the under cards in the late 90’s with the top of the card still being works. Tamura, along with fellow mat wizard Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, could work the breathtaking version of lucha libre mat work in Japan, which was a style that was supposed to be able to hold water and look real to the general public. While Volk Han was the first non-native RINGS star, Tamura and Kohsaka surpassed him by late 1997 in working for realistic submissions on the mat, flowing through transitions in a seamless and convincing looking manner. In his January 1997 match against Volk Han, Tamura executes a kip up that works credibly during the opening minutes of the bout. The sad thing about RINGS going into all shoots by late 1999 is it was the end of an era. The UWF movement, started in 1984 by Akira Meda, Nobuhiko Takada, Satoru Sayama, and Yoshiaki Fujiwara was based on having the fans believe their matches were shoots (or close to it). RINGS was the last UWF hold out and from 1997-1999, arguably the peak of the UWF style from an in ring perspective, and when it went to shoots, the style was dead. The official funeral was on November 24, 2002 when Kiyoshi Tamura knocked out Nobuhiko Takada at PRIDE 24. Tamura’s UWF restart couldn’t take off and only had one draw (Tamura) and subsequent groups such as Big Mouth Loud and the Inoki Genome Federation were business losers in addition to being in ring disappointments. Rumina Sato, Shooto’s first major star (Yuki Nakai was the first star to the hardcores), often credits Volk Han’s submissions skills with leg bars and Sambo (Russian Combat Wrestling) as influencing what he did in real fights in the mid to late 90’s as MMA was evolving. Kohsaka, and to a lesser extent Tamura, were also able to bring their worked knowledge into their real fights. Kohsaka was a master at working the guard, as seen in his August 2000 fight versus PRIDE and UFC star Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera and against Noguiera’s younger brother in the DEEP promotion from September 2002. The DEEP 2002 fight features guard reversals that would look outstanding in worked wrestling and are *actually* doable in the real world of fighting. Other Matches in this style: Volk Han vs. Yoshihisa Yamamoto (June 17, 1995 – RINGS) Tsuyoshi Kohsaka vs. Yoshihisa Yamamoto (April 29, 1996 – RINGS) Tsuyoshi Kohsaka vs. Yoshihisa Yamamoto (April 4, 1997 – RINGS) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Volk Han (Sept 25, 1996; Jan 22, 1997; Sept 26, 1997 – RINGS) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (June 29, 1998 – RINGS) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Yoshihisa Yamamoto (June 24, 1999 – RINGS) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Hiroyuki Ito (August 18, 2004 – U-Style) Bonus Legit Fights in this style: Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (April 22, 1997 – RINGS) Tsuyoshi Kohsaka vs. Frank Shamrock (September 26, 1997 – RINGS) Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Vernon White (March 24, 1998 – PRIDE FC) Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Carlos Newton (June 24, 1998 – PRIDE FC) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Frank Shamrock (April 23, 1999 – RINGS) Rumina Sato vs. Caol Uno (May 29, 1999 – SHOOTO) Tsuyoshi Kohsaka vs. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera (August 23, 2000 – RINGS) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera (October 16, 2000 – RINGS) Volk Han vs. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera (February 24, 2001 – RINGS) Tsuyoshi Kohsaka vs. Antonio Rogerio Noguiera (September 7, 2002 – DEEP) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Ikuhisa Minowa (September 7, 2002 – DEEP) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Hidehiko Yoshida (August 10, 2003 – PRIDE FC) Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki (July 21, 2001 – ECWA / March 30, 2002 – ROH / June 7, 2002 – JAPW) The US Indies came out of hibernation in 2001 after ECW and WCW closed their doors for good. Throughout the late 80’s and 1990’s, the US Indy scene was usually one of two things: a nostalgia show with wrestlers who were mid-level stars in the WWF in the 80’s or special cases such as the really fun January 1998 – January 1999 OMEGA run. When Bryan Danielson and Low Ki first matched up in the ECWA Super 8 2001 finals, their match had some good BattlArts’esque mat work but stylistically was still worked as a New Japan juniors match. There is nothing inherently wrong with New Japan mat work but it is far down the list of mat work I want to see in match after match after match. Danielson and Ki had their first great match in July 2001, they were quickly moving their mat work towards a more realistic looking, MMA influenced style. It wasn’t RINGS Tamura style per say, but it was based around jockeying for position, looking for catch style submissions, and selling the hell out of them. I’m not sure the US had ever seen anything like it. The March 2002 Ring of Honor match has the first 15 minutes almost exclusively dedicated to this mat work before moving to the stretch run with a little bit of flying and near falls. The June 2002 JAPW match is the closest to RINGS style, in that it is submissions only, so no pin falls which means they spend a lot of time on the mat and make it mean something. The style had a brief lifespan due to the ability of additional people to work it and Danielson and Ki transitioning into new facets of wrestling (Danielson spending the summer 2003 in England; Ki turning heel in July 2004 and incorporating brawling into his matches) Other Matches in the style: Kazuo Takahashi vs. Mark Rush (July 26, 1991 – Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi) Samoa Joe vs. Low Ki (October 5, 2002 – Ring of Honor) Carl Greco vs. Yuki Ishikawa (June 9, 2008 – BattlArts) [1] Somewhere in Mexico, there has to be a vault full of 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s footage that is just gathering dust waiting to be found and released to the masses [2] This was also a fairly common spot in England, where Billy Robinson used it (see GIF of Giant Baba match) and other World of Sport wrestlers incorporated it into their move arsenal [3] As RINGS went down, so did he ditto Kiyoshi Tamura, who was exposed in a different way, even while proven to be a great fighter. RINGS was purported as a shoot. If it was, and it wasn't at the time, there was no more exciting fighter in the world than Tamura. He was magic on the ground, but mostly, because he was doing pro wrestling within what looked to be a shooting context. Like Sakuraba, he had a tremendous talent for being able to make a worked match look real. Quite frankly, as much as people romanticize about the greats of the old days of American pro and their ability to do such, I've never seen anyone any better than Tamura at this. And for his size, he was a real tough guy, and beat some very good shooters like Jeremy Horn, Maurice Smith, Pat Miletich and Renzo Gracie, and drew with Frank Shamrock. But his incredible submission ability in a worked sense, did not transfer over to shoot matches, just as Takada's magnificent kickboxing skill in worked matches that people thought were real suddenly vanished in real combat. April 8, 2002 WON