El-P

Yeah, I noticed JR seemed already salty about stuff regarding to AEW and the new generation of workers/fans... I thought the last few shows were ok, but nothing must-hear at all.

I don't think you can have execution for the sake of execution. Whatever you do, you either execute it well or not. Pro-wrestler only do moves, because they are using their bodies. Yes, occasionally they scream at the ref, the crowd or the audience, but apart from that, they move. That's the only thing they do. Pro-wrestling is movez, basically. Now, you either do these moves, from running the ropes to throwing a punch to convulsing on the mat in a fashion that is accepted as looking good in the context of what pro-wrestling is (and that is, with regard to the different cultures, a modern lucha guy won't bump the same way as a joshi puroresu girl from the 80's) or looking bad. The issue is, what kind of logic do you apply ? I think a lot of time, what we call "logic" is actually "personal expectations" based on our own biases of what a pro-wrestling match should be. One thing I was thinking about. Like I said, I really have no idea about Rollins work one way or another. But there's something that I see all the time : "Oh, he does that falcon arrow from the top and it doesn't mean anything." Ok. Understood. The question is : what does the falcon arrow from the top should mean ? Why should it be a finisher (if that's the issue) ? On what are we basing this criticism exactly ? I don't think anyone could actually give me an answer that is not based on a preconcieved notion of "damn, a falcon arrow from the top rope !!!!". And as an old Hayabusa fan, I totally understand the feeling ! Still, it's 2019. Ten years ago, the Canadian Destroyer was a death spot. And it was considered either super cool or goofy as shit. Now it's just a spot. An impressive spot, especially when done right, but it's just a spot. However, Okada, arguably the greatest wrestler of these last ten years (stay with me even if you disagree) wins all his matches with a short clothesline. It's an accepted fact. Sure, some bitch about his "lame offense, especially for Japan" (which is even funnier considering Okada's status in Japan), but mostly, the Rainmaker is an accepted finisher, while a falcon arrow from the top rope isn't. Until someone makes it and it will be. So again, where's the logic here ? I'm not sure "logic" has anything to do with pro-wrestling, really. I mean, if we go "logic", Ric Flair was a terrible, terrible worker because the story he always told (more or less) was that he was the dumbest motherfucker ever. So, I'm not sure "logic" is always the way to go, or at least not in the physical acceptation of the term. There's nothing logic about the physics of pro-wrestling. Like I said, I've seen plenty matches that "made sense" that were okayish to good, whereas I've seen some crazy-ass spotfests where logic (in term of what a body can do/endure) was thrown away that I would call great matches without blinking.

You could have said I agree with you on this more often that not on more than half the situations. Seriously, what is "the internet" ? We're in 2019. "Internet fans" may have meant something twenty years ago. I was talking about how WWE cancelled the PPV on the French station that carried it for 20 years the other day. I checked a bit on forums to see the reactions. The people there, who are not "casual" WWE fans but clearly compose the hardcore French WWE fandom audience, would absolutely not care about "workrate" or "execution". They are the hardcore WWE fans. They are a community on the Internet. So again, when people are talking about "internet fans" or "smart fans" or even "smart marks" in 2019, it doesn't even mean anything anymore. It's like "movez", and "workrate" or "indy darling". Terms are used as shortcuts. And I disagree about the idea that workrate/execution is what is most valued in general, because what has always been most valued in term of the canon that has been established by the niche of the niche was always, above workrate and execution although it was certainly present too, psychology. When people talked about Kawada vs Misawa, above everything, the psychology of the matches (rightfully or wrongfully), where what was put over above and beyond workrate and execution. Okada vs Omega, same thing. But mostly every consensus great worker has the workrate/execution label anyway. Ric Flair, who had a terrific workrate (he was a total go-go-go style worker, just like Angle later) and execution, was also put over for his great (???) psychology. Jerry Lawler, that great storyteller of all time (???) certainly was not an immobile dolt and his matches were never borefest, and he had the *greatest punches ever* (execution, right there). Yoshiaki Fujiwara, the second biggest figure of the DVDVR "new" canon, was workraty as shit in term of shoot-style, and his execution was always incredible. So yeah, find me a boring-ass guy who didn't do shit, whose stuff looked like crap but had matches that "made sense" who ended up very high on our latest GOAT project. I don't think you'll find one. To me it makes perfect sense.

Yeah, that too.

I believe it comes from their old logo from the TNA days, which was written that way ! Never noticed the current logo was plain IMPACT. Funny that.

Sucks for AXS. Very cool for Tenille Dashwood. I guess they still throw some money around, because I would have thought she would reappear in AEW. This is making the women division even more interesting. iMPACT still is my favourite little promotion. They really know how to do things right with what they have. Involving Melissa Santos in Cage/Elgin is the best thing they could have done, considering how good she was with the Fenix angle in LU. Rhino, well, like I said I really don't care and wasn't a fan of his years in iMPACT (liked him in ECW), but I admit there's something pretty cool about iMPACT being the home for old ECW alumnis from time to time. No signs of Killer Kross though, I wonder if he's still in their plans.

This is way overstated. This is acting like there was no criticism of spot-workers previous to the 00's, the DVDVR sets and the post-Benoit workrate guilt (yes, it happened). There was plenty of criticism of spotfests for the sake of spotfests already. Hell, guys like Eddie Carpentier and Antonino Rocca were probably considered like spot-monkeys in their days. The thing is, back then (the 80's and 90's I mean, since this is were our conversation is focusing about "smart fans"), wrestling was also marred by a shitload of guys who would do nothing or do spots but really, really poorly. But that never made anyone who would tons of cool shit a great worker, even back then. No one ever confused the Eliminators with the MX, although as crazy spot-artists, they could be fun (with the sloppiness that went with the time too). This isn't the case today though, as pro-wrestlers are much better athletes and especially acrobats than they ever were before. So of course it gets even harder to simply discredit someone who's doing incredible stuff as a simple spot-monkey, because let's say 90% of pro-wrestlers today that aren't great and some not even good are just that, spot monkeys. Very seldom you'd see a guy who just suck at doing anything or spend his time lying down or lumbering around. Basically, most pro-wrestlers today do a lot of "movez" and have a high workrate anyway. Hell, Cody vs Dustin was a total high workrate match, really. At the same time, by sheer pendulum effect, some guys who aren't doing much, or are doing less, or whose execution is not that great, are de facto overrated simply because of the fallacious "lol movez" arguments. I'm not gonna name names here, but how many time have I heard about this guy or that guys being "great at his role" when in fact he was a mediocre goof who simply had a decent gimmick or decent charisma or was doing some easy but efficient stuff. Doing less doesn't automatically means you're great (see : Corbin, Baron). Doing more doesn't mean you're not great (see : Omega, Kenny). Seth Rollins seems to be in the old "spot monkey" category, and it's not helped by the fact he never had any discernable character ever. He's Blitzkrieg. He's doing cool moves and some people love him for that, despite the fact 99% of pro-wrestlers today do cool moves, but he's also pushed at the top of the N#1 company in the world, which helps the perception a whole lot. Remember Blitzkrieg ? He was a total spot-monkey who was on fire for a few months on Nitro and Thunder in the cruiserweight division in 1999. And some of us panned him back them for being a "lol movez" guy too (we didn't use that term, of course), whereas Rey Mysterio, who was doing even more moves and executed them better, was rightly seen as a great worker, because he had a lot more than a repertoire of moves. I think the "spot worker" designation should come back. Anyway, I'm just ranting.

Stop doing AEW's PR ! Hope AEW is paying you well ! Wait, we're not on Twitter, sorry about that.

Ok. I wonder if Savio is part of either Konnan's of Salina's upcoming revelations about each others. Like I said before, give us Savio vs LA Park.

I guess it couldn't last. This week's show had a terrible main event again, which featured Contra vs Von Erichs. Sorry, but none of this works. First, the Von Erich boys aren't very good. And if they don't have the Von Erich name, they basically are two generic guys doing weak brawling and semi-athletic spots. I mean, the LA Dojo Young Lions on the current G1 tours look ten times better than these guys. Second, Contra are still lame as fuck, they look like two jobbers and their work sucks. Speaking of which, it's amazing how Gotch has deteriorated. His kicks made Miz look like KENTA, his body looks like jello, he looks like he couldn't possibly give a fuck. The post-match angle fake chaos with the riot squad was ridiculous. This is lame. And since they are building toward a WarGames match with all these people, it doesn't look good for the upcoming months. Rest of the show had some fun stuff though, mostly because, well, Salina. Mance Warner vs Bestia 666 was a decent garbage brawl (although again, I don't ever want to hear about Corny bashing AEW for its sideshow gimmicks as long as he's putting over Mance Warner, who's just exactly that), highlighted by Salina using a Louboutin bag to pass on some powder to Bestia. How precious is that ? Also, her little interaction with Low-Ki showed how good of a performer she's became. Match against el Sicario was nothing, but I guess we'll get to see what's in her smartphone now, since Konnan had stolen it (booking is kinda lazy on that one, Salina should just go to the police and get her phone back !). Hammerstone dating Georgia Smith is right out of RAW 1996. Oh, Corny.... Is Aries gone already ? Is Savio Vega gonna show up eventually ? This company is a hot mess.

Wow. I'm following from afar... They don't even try to book any personal issues anymore. When in doubt : gauntlet.

I think KENTA is actually on the upturn again, for a last stint that will live up to his name. Let's be real, he came into the G1 with some of the greatest workers in the world (Okada, Tanahashi, Naito, ZSJ, Ishii, Ospreay, Takagi) straight from a long layoff after a mostly catastrophic WWE stint marred by injuries and unlearning what made him great. Considering his age, the state of his body and where he comes from, he's been doing mighty fine. KENTA was a terrific worker in the 00's. Expecting he was gonna be the same worker in 2019 that he was in 2009 is ridiculous, especially considering his last five years. Apart from the Archer match, he's had nothing but excellent/great matches. That's pretty miraculous, actually.

Ah ah, awesome ! That's a babyface promo too.

Never cared for Roman Reigns in single. The overuse of that stupid-ass Superman Punch being a reason why. I always found him dull and unengaging. The only time he showed me something that wasn't "work like a top guy when actually no one in the crowd sees you as one" or "sell way too much when you're not very good at it but you're positioned as John Cena" was at that Mania working around the remains of Taker, I thought he did a pretty damn good job at it. But apart from that, I always found Reigns overrated as fuck all. He's also been in position to work super agented main events for ever now in the most cushioned environment in the business. I honestly don't think he would look half as good as Moxley does if he was thrown into something like the G1. I honestly have no opinion on Seth Rollins' work, I don't even remember when I actually watched a full match (apart from that Mania quasi-squash).

Loved it too. Great match. Naito may seem like his body is breaking down, but he's still an awesome worker. That bump off the twisting lariat was a thing of beauty. His charisma was off the charts too in this. I wonder if Rene Young, after calling some heatless, boring Seth Rollins match puts on NJ World on her computer at the hotel room and checks her husband killing it in Japan and making himself a gaijin star...

You don't say. Pretty balsy and intriguing booking by Gedo, going Okada and Moxley at 10 points at the middle of the G1. They can't keep up like that, so something is got to give somewhere. Yano is gonna beat Mox. You can quote me. I can see Ibushi vs Mox as the final, with Ibushi winning the whole thing.

First time I ever saw Ziggler, my reaction was : why is this guy trying to emulate Billy Gunn ?

I swear I thought Okada vs KENTA was going broadway. And they actually teased it at the beginning by starting so slow. That's also KENTA looking the best thus far. Honestly, when you think from where he comes from (injuries, years of unlearning how to properly work, confidence destroyed), it's almost a miracle he looks that good actually, even if in a japanese context, he may not look as hot as people thought he would, but it's not 2010 anymore. Anyway, I thought it was an excellent match and they clearly can do better in the future. EVIL also has looked as good as he ever has to me against ZSJ. Good showing thus far for a guy I don't exactly care for usually. Sanada vs Tana was predictably excellent too. No real great match on this show, but the G1 keeps on being real interesting. (yeah, Fale needs to be out next year, what the hell does he bring to the table anymore ? Pieter ? although I admit the swerve with Uno at the end was cool)

Considering I started watching Triple Crown matches in 1999, I feel old. Just watched the Celtic Warriors Workout with Lana (and Rusev)... how in the hell these two aren't major stars on TV ? They are so funny. That abs workout at the end looks killer too, I might want to try that one out (it's gonna kill me, I'm sure).

Come on, Blue Monday is great. Even if you're a fan of Curtis, you can't deny some of the strongest singles once he left the faction.

The Battle Royal (when did this become a "gimmick battle royal" BTW ?) was fun. The Micheal Nakazawa stuff was fun for what it was. I have no issue with that. I sure hope we get some none serious stuff from AEW too, because I wouldn't want everyone on there acting like they do on those very personal promos and personality profile you see on the Road to episodes. They are all very good, but at some point, I kinda want more than a bunch of *human beings* in this promotion. I sure hope Allie is gonna go batshit crazy like she does at some point. I want a Salina de la Renta summoning a demon luchador. Win and loss mattering doesn't mean, I sure hope, that AEW is gonna be "pure sport" approach, which is a reason why I never ever was interested in checking out ROH (although I know it wasn't always the case and there were characters there too, but still). That's why I don't really care if they do some batshit comedy matches and have some campy gimmicks, especially in a meta way because that's the way to do it with this generation. As far as Peter Avalon goes, I dunno, I never was bothered by the whole gimmick during Fyter Fest. Since it was the first time I saw him work, my focus went into two directions : Peter Avalon looks like a decent enough worker; Sonny Kiss looked better in Lucha Underground.

The Librarians are a pastiche of bad and stupid. I'm not even saying it's a great one and it's hilarious. It's ok. It's funny on occasion. It's mostly unimportant. It's a non-factor in the grand scheme of things. The Dark Order, now, that is a poor gimmick and they should revamp their presentation of that team, which seem really good in the ring.

It's lonely at the top. No. I dismiss people acting like this is any kind of a big deal when it's all... a joke. It's unimportant. I find it kinda baffling that people are focusing so much on this stuff like it needed deep thought out analysis and shit. It doesn't. People are way overthinking this stuff, really. You can have a company where wins and losses matter and championships are big deals and have some comedy thrown into without fans spinning on their head because it's too damn confusing. NJPW says hello. Maybe japanese fans are just smarter after all, they don't get confused so easily and don't need things to be so strictly drawn and defined. If a little joke on the undercard confuse and anger people so much, I have no idea what to tell them...

It's a pastiche. The pastiche itself doesn't suck. It's ok. It's quite funny at times, like when they do the "it's real good shit" bit on BTE.

it is a JOKE. You all are WAYYYY overthinking this. No one is taking AEW for a heel promotion because of the librarians. There's no authority figure.