El-P

Had a long-time girlfriend (attractive but crazy), an average paid job (French teacher in an international organization), a flat (small but near the center of Paris). Left all three a few years ago. Tried something else with someone else somewhere else. Failed. Since then, as Grandaddy would say : "I'm on standby". (and that's my post 9966. Perfect number.)

These last two legit cracked me up.

I could say a thing or two about Nia Jax, but I'm not sure how well it would be recieved... Ok, what the hell. Let me preface this by re-afirming that I find Nia Jax to be a mostly crappy worker who brings exactly jackshit to the table apart from a few basic power moves. I rated her as a third rate Eagle Sawaii before, but I'm not sure if she's even at this level. And just as poor a heel as a babyface. So, there it is. I also don't see shit in Jax "good looks" as sold by WWE. Maybe IRL (and by that I mean when she hasn't got a hundred layers of bad makeup plastered on her face and poorly reciting awful written promos) she is charming and all, but what I see on WWE TV really isn't. I'll go a step further, the way WWE pushed her as being attractive and model-like effectively makes her unattractive to me. Not to even mention the reason why they are pushing her that way (PC/PR bullshit), despite the fact they are going for the idiotic "be yourself' stuff, they are actually pushing Nia Jax as a form of super normative beauty type, with the über feminine makeup and long flowing hair. "Ok, she's a super big girl, but look at her face, she's actually in the norm of what's accepted as female beauty, she's model-like". She's absolutely not "herself" as in unique and attractive because of it. She's almost branded as "big *BUT* model-like" in a super normative way. To me (and that struck me from the very first time I saw her) she looks like Chyna post-operation when she was making herself more feminine. Again, maybe she looks super fine and has a terrific personnality IRL, but what I see on WWE TV is some unassuming monster-like worker (by her body-type only, that's what is being presented) cosplaying as a PC/PR barbie-doll-for-big-girls. The fact she really isn't a good performer at all on any level surely doesn't help seeing through that stuff either. Now I'll take another exemple. I always thought Bison Kimura was attractive. Yeah, Bison Kimura. Not the same kind of body type, but not exactly your typical hot modely girl either. And that face too with the grotesque makeup. Hell, someone mentionned Reggie Bennett earlier. I second this. The giant Kim Deal-like smile probably played a huge part. The huge boobs too (let's be blunt for once). But there was something about Reggie Bennett (a BIG girl in her own right) that was definitely really attractive, something about her personnality that came through. Meanwhile, Nia Jax being *sold* as model-like and presented in a very conscious effort with a normative kind of beauty (despite her frame : what matters is her overly plastered face and worked hair, which is the idea of "attractive" to the WWE people. As they can't sell her body, they focus on her face.) absolutely works against her to me, because it contradicts itself both formally (ok, that's subjective I guess, I do not find her attractive at all, that's a fact) and as far as what they are pretending to present (a "different" kind of beauty, which she is not, she's actually totally obeying and conveying a sense of norm).

Arn Anderson always seemed to me like he would be big there too.

Agreed. Which is why I'd say that by default, most of the WWE-only workers are overrated by default. Unless they go work in a different context where everything is not as micro-managed, there's no way of knowing what they are really able to do outside the context of machine. I'd argue that Kurt Angle became a better worker in TNA. Ditto Christian Cage. That's from current viewing experience. True. But we can't ignore what we know about the context (ie : the agenting, for instance Pat Patterson putting Hogan vs Warrior at Mania 6 together and them rehearsing it) and the workers in question from other matches or simply verified informations (like Flair & Steamboat calling it in the ring, but also having worked a hundred times together, or Savage and DDP laying it in advance and getting the best matches ever out of super limited guys in the process) Then again, the match being good/bad is very subjective. Meanwhile, a match can be poor but one of the guys involved can be clearly responsible for it sucking, while the other still has a good showing. From there, you can point to positives and negatives about each worker, the match itself being less important in putting out an evaluation. And then again, all of it is from an outside perspective, where only matters what is produced. The production itself we could not give a shit about, which is where stuff like people loving to work with Kane or Randy Orton comes from, despite the fact it doesn't matter in the end result, seen from the audience's perspective. So yeah, what do we know...

The more I watch NOAH Misawa, the more I'm fascinated and it reminds me how great this man was both as a worker and actually as a booker too. Here he is, leading his new company toward new coasts in dream matches that could never happen because of Baba isolationist mentality, and most of all preparing the field for his men to get over on the big stage. So he gets Chono, who is still in heel mode here (as opposed to the following year when he will already have turned into more of a legend figure) and also much more active than in the Kobashi match in 2003. Yet, we're leading toward that match already, as Misawa, who barely loses anyway, won't be able to take Chono down and go to a 30 mn draw. Now that may seem a crazy thought, especially by 2002 in a Dome (ah, the days where NJ would still run several Dome shows a year), but it actually works really well because Misawa knows what the fuck he's doing, and Chono is game enough. Sure, it's a slower paced match. Sure, there's a lot of repetition of spots, but it's because the match works that way : who is gonna put the other one down with his favourite weapon : the elbow / the kenta kicks ? They mix up other spots too : Chono going for a few submissions, and Misawa doing a really good job putting the STF (whom everybody knows won't get him, really); Misawa actually does an emerald frosion on the ramp (which allows Chono to not have to kick out out it right way, as Misawa is also selling a piledriver too by that point, so it takes quite some time before they get back in the ring). A super neat sequences comes after Chono uses the Russian Legswip, which was a Baba spot, so Misawa retaliates with the same spot followed by a neckbreaker drop (again, old Baba spot). Yeah, some fine reference work there, again as Misawa uses the manjigatame on Chono (he gets countered of course, since he's not as good as Chono at it, it's a Inoki hold after all). Plenty of neat little stuff like this, until the point where it comes down to Chono not being strong enough to sustain Misawa's elbows (who is ?), yet manage to work enough counters and muster enough will to work up a few kenta kicks of his own. At this point, it's a matter of him not sinking more than beating Misawa (come on now, Chono ain't gonna beat Misawa)? leading to an unexpected draw. Another thing : Misawa didn't drop Chono on his head once inside the ring. That will be Kobashi's not-so -secret-weapon. So yeah, this was not an epic spectacle nor a magnificient action packed match, but it was just right, it told a fine story, Misawa did an excellent job making the most out of Chono's sometimes really light offense, it felt like two big stars finally colliding, there was the old AJ vs NJ feel to it. Really good, smart, compelling stuff. And it let the door open for Kobashi, the real Ace of NOAH (still to come) to beat Masa Chono. Misawa was such a great, great pro-wrestler, coupled with a selfless booker.

I'm very aware (although the musical analogy always cracked me up because ECW was using Guns & Roses as the music theme for their major show deep into the 90's and grunge was already dead when the Raven character debuted, but for the pro-wrestling bubble, they were as current as you could be I guess). Hey, this is clearly my generation of slackers... But I thought I'd be almost the only one on this board still proudly waving the flag of good ol' ECW, its sloppy spotfests, über sexist-catfights, grotesque bloodletting, inane balcony jumps and Joey Styles screaming out of his lungs, not to mention the most crass and obnoxious audience ever.

I'm shocked, I thought you'd say CMLL. Interesting to have so many ECW guys. And an actual TNA fan.

You don't think there's a huge difference of talent between a guy who's able to execute a script and a guy who's able to put his own match together or even call it in the ring ?

Awful... That's the issue with older territory wrestler, they were a bunch of real lowlives in wrestling during that time...

It does start on the slower sides of things. Jun as the NOAH Ace was an experiment that didn't quite work at that point, and there's something missing there too, as you'd expect much more heat and dickiness out of Jun in a NJPW setting. Of course we're deep into Inoki fucking up the company, so it's not like it's a hot context anyway, with Nagata coming off getting legit killed in an MMA match (dumbest idea ever from Inoki). Still, it takes off after a while, when Nagata drops Jun on his head, which will result in a payback spot in the form of a great DDT on the ramp. The piledriver that follows looks indeed shaky at best. Still, that's the story there. Nagata is actually kinda heelish a bit, which the crowd doesn't seem to like (odd). Things really pick up when the bombs are coming, after Jun realizes he can't exactly exchange strikes with Nagata (the hard slapfest was what ignited the real heat). Jun putting Nagata in his own Nagata-lock was kinda neat too. But really, it's more of a bombfest with counters in the finishing stretch, which is fitting for a Dome show and it gets really good. Nagata actually shines more to me there with his execution and selling, in a position where he's working from underneath, trying to get by Jun's more dangerous attacks, which will end up breaking him at the end. Very good/Excellent match overall.

I'm not wanting anything out of pro-wrestling crowds. But there's something interesting to me about the fact that what is *real* about pro-wrestling today is what resonnates with a particular kind of crowd, whose enjoyment and reactions can't be based on a predetermined role that they are supposed to fill simply because thet react mostly to that *real* element of modern pro-wrestling (as opposed to "investing emotions on a character"). A crowd that is mostly derired (including on this board) because they are a "bad crowd who only pop for spots and don't cheer babyfaces and boo heels". I don't pass judgement on either of them (and really, my particular taste in atmosphere makes me enjoy a boo-heel/cheer-faces crowd a lot more). As far as "being too stupid or emotional", there's a can of worms to be opened there actually, going back to the "good old days" and the "southern territories" which were supposed to get the most heat. What consisted of the pro-wrestling crowds then, depending on the territories ? Was there a conscious notion that you would manipulate less educated people to get the most genuine reactions ? Why would the NY audience be considered "smarter" than say, the Tennessee one ? There's a class disdain issue buried somewhere… Also, were the genuine crowds of the 80's better because they woud chant "faggots" at effeminate workers, or chear Magnum TA when he would sexually assault Baby Doll and she would "like it !!!!!!!" ? Anyway, tons of questions there... I don't sell shit.

People are cheating, so of course, I gotta say, Lucha Underground is my promotion now.

No. I also have never seen this word in any other context. And I have no idea how to pronounce it. "Getting his/her ass kicked" is easier to me.

That kind of wording says it all actually. NXT is a "smarter" crowd than your average WWE crowd. They "invest in genuine, classic heel-face dynamic".

It's funny because I became a fan via WWF in 1990 and stayed a fan until 1999, only got WCW in 96 (and ECW from 96 about one year and a half later on Bravo once I got satellite channels !), and although my formative years as a fan and a "mark", really, were all about WWF, today I'd always be more inclined to revisit WCW, especially the Nitro years. Which I have done on multiple occasions, while I really never went back to RAW from the same time period (which I loved back then). Probably why I also am going through TNA and never bothered to explore much of the 00's WWE in depths. But I guess if I really had to pick only one. Well. ECW ! ECW ! ECW ! Yeah, I know. But there's something about that promotion that was fascinating to me from the very first time I was able to watch it. The mid 90's feeling is something that will never get old with me. And although I probably won't watch very much of it anymore (Tony "announcing" Barely Legal was the first time in years I had watched ECW since my "global" watch), getting through some of the Legends of ECW roundtables recently reminded me just how much I have loved a lot of this stuff (Francine is so adorable and funny on those too). And yeah, I'm a Raven fan.

Funny, I've been thinking about the first point about athletics/strenght feats a lot lately the same way he does, meaning that pro-wrestling has never been more *real* than it is today, while at the same time never been so unrealistic. And that pro-wrestling becoming more real (which can be traced back to the garbage/hardcore scene and to a lesser extent to one japanese way of working really stiff) goes along with the fact it can't be *perceived as real* anymore because despite the suspension of disbelief, there's no real heat today (in Mexico maybe) and people really are onto the joke and really playing along. Even in NXT for instance, no one actually really hates Ciampa, everyone is very aware of their respective role in the broader sense, the audience is now playing along. Which wasn't the case at first, as the "smart" crowds were more inclined on shitting on babyfaces and chant "you fucked up" rather than playing the role they were supposed to play in a context when they couldn't *be* that role anymore. So, the more real the athletic prowess gets, the more genuine the reactions are too, because no matter what we can say about some of those insane flippy sequences some of us hates so much, it is indeed incredible feats of athleticism you don't see anywhere else. That's why in a way, I find the idea of a "good wrestling crowd" being the one who plays along (cheers the babyfaces, boo the heels) kinda odd because it's not the most genuine wrestling crowd. In a way it's even more post-modern than the indy crowd who genuinely goes insane for crazy spotty shit. I'm not sure if working yourself up to the point you actually believe (or make-believe) you hate Ciampa is better than actually going insane for one of Ospreay vs Ricochet ridiculous-SFX looking sequence. There's something almost retromaniac about pretending you really hate a pro-wrestler in 2018. So, pro-wrestling as figure skating anyone ?

As amusing as it may be for people to offer authoritative comments on matches they haven't seen, let the record reflect that Okada/Tanahashi did not contain a single big move 2.9 kick out. Indeed. And it was a MOTYC in my book. I would give it ****1/2 (which is the requisite for MOTYC to me) if I was still in the snowflakes kinda mood.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. The workers are robots when they read stupid lines of "dialogues" but they really also are robots to a degree when you have *two people*, in some case, putting a match together for them. It really puts the concept of "worker" in question, because you never know if what the guys are doing is actually their own doing or if they are basically just working from a layout/script that was given to them.

This is Kawada, the last remaining AJ faithfull against Zero-1 dickhead Ohtani, who really never has proved himself at that level in single competition. So at first, he really can't hang with Kawada, which is the story. When he does that boot in the face deal in the corner, my thoughts were "Hum... Kawada ain't gonna like that." Yep. Kawada gets up and slaps the shit out of Ohtani. Basically, every time Ohtani was too much of an irrespectful dickhead, Kawada would get up, walk right in his face and kick the shit out of him. Ohtani's strategy is to go after a knee, with quick dropkicks and kneebars. He also no-sells regularly Kawada's jumping kicks to the back of the head, which can be seen as annoying, but more on that later. Kawada doesn't forget to sell his knee while he goes back on offense. Some nice double boots to the face and backdrops back and forth. Ohtani basically has to go back to the knee to get an advantage up to the point they are trading bombs and Ohtani insists on not-selling those kicks to the back of the head. What a dick. At some point though, Kawada's offense gets too heavy. And while he tries to show off as the dick he is and keeps on no-selling those kicks, he finally ends up taking one too many and gets pinned after.... a kick to the back of the head. That's poetic justice. Excellent, bordering great match for Kawada's last Triple Crown win.

So, basically, the Network podcast is a rehash of older podcasts. I don't see the point of listening to those when you could have the original thing, without the WWE filter.

He's thankfully stayed out of Lawler territory with that stuff. I think he knows what lines not to cross. Lawler turning into a legit creepy old man during the Attitude Era really killed whatever goodwill I had left for him in that role.

Agree, but it has to be said Traylor had some terrific matches with Vader & Sting in WCW though, before he kinda faded in the background. Didn't he got that contract where he was paid for every PPV even if he wasn't booked on them, only it was signed way before they went with 12 PPV's a year so he ended up collecting easy paycheks or being booked in meaningless matches just because he was being paid anyway ? Man, I miss WCW every day of my wrestling fandom...

That was the intent at first. You're naive. So let's bring content back. Of sorts. Sable is an interesting case, because she had or displayed exactly not talent whatsever apart from modeling T-shirt with her obnoxious fake boobs. Yet, in 1999, she was arguably the biggest star on WWF TV next to Austin. Were the Attitude Era mainstream fans so desperate for boobies to make her one of the biggest ratings peaks (pu intended) when she really had nothing in term of promo ability (let's not talk about her in-ring prowess) nor even character even ? Her heel turn before Mania 15, another brillant idea by Vince Russo at his "peak", gave us the immortal catchphrase of "Are you ready for the grrrrrind ?" followed by the lamest hip-swivel ever. Really, is Sable the biggest case of looks being the *only* factor as a needle mover (pun intended) in the pro-wrestling business ?

Most annoying call in current WWE announcing : "For the win !" = nearfall