El-P

Yep. Ospreay reminds me of Styles at that age. I really look at Ospreay and see a guy who isn't good right now, but is very naturally gifted, very athletic, and just naturally talented. I think 10 years from now Opsreay could be one of the best in the world. There was an echo chamber in 2000, and more so in 2003, but I don't think it's entirely like what young wrestlers have to deal with today. Aj Styles was already a legit great wrestler by 2003/04. He was 25. Ospreay has all the worst tendencies imaginable of Millenials Wrestling. His potential to me is to be RVD, a poor wrestler that can have some really good matches with the right people because of all he *can* do. Thus far he's just a bad wrestler was does tons of real-life sentai shit. Ricochet, yeah, shitloads of potential. And he also looks like a star, not a geeky cosplayer.

No idea. I really was off the loop at that point. But this ending screamed sabotage. Goldy was the most over guy here by far.

The second Elimination Chambers match. Again for the WWE title. Again with Trip as the champ going in. Should tell you everything you need to know. On paper, doesn't look as good as the first match. In execution, was much better as a whole until the finish. Shawn vs Jericho as the Wargames workhorse opener. These guy know how to begin. Damn, Shawn was quite back in shape and style there. When Randy Orton gets in, he gets crickets. He's still a young guy with potential pushed to the main event scene because of the name and look. And he's already kinda bland. Kevin Nash gets the Kane spot. Except Nash in 2003 was still better at it than Kane the previous year. There's something badass about Nash demeanor + charisma, even with age and a shot body, he looks imposing. So it works well. Some blood and Jericho or Michaels, whoever gets there first. HHH's cell opens and... Shawn superkicks him. Cool spot. HHH remains hidden until the end. Why not, he's the Game. Nash gets out of the way before Goldy gets in. Good idea. Goldy would have killed him for ending the streak or something. So Nash jobs to the superkick of his best friend instead, although Jericho is getting the pin. The Goldy segment is the best stuff here and puts him over like crazy. Insane spear putting Jericho through the UNBREAKABLE glass (although Goldy has to give an added omphhh to his effort, which actually made it look even more painfull). Goldy clears the space. It's pretty great, really. Then HHH doesn't want to get out. Flair holding the door from the outside was neat. Goldy breaking the UNBREAKABLE GLASS with his feet and hands was kinda goofy really but also quite badass. Better this than a car window. And so he kicks HHH's ass, who's sporting Yoshiaki Yastu's pants. And then... oh man. It's 2003. The sledghammer. Damn. From nowhere. HHH wins, effectively killing the crowd. Totally anticlimatic shit finish to an otherwise excellently booked match. Evolution beating like there are some kind of lame Horsemen. Mmkay. You know, heels never won Wargames, Trip. Shawn & Jericho were clearly the workhorses (again). Goldy's segment was the best. Orton was there, like he always has been and always will, apparently. Yet, better than the first one despite a whole lot of no-heat for a long time because it's 2003. But while the finish of 2002 was terrific, this one sucked the life out of the crowd.

Ok, forget Red and put SAT °1 instead. You get my point, people.

The tales of two matches. Well, three parts actually. RVD was clearly the MVP of the match, and kudos to HHH for taking those brutal bumps on the steel two. Blood. Wow, that was another era although it looks almost the same as today. RVD makes the most out of the gimmick, which also allows him to look better than he actually is. Jericho gets in and the match keep on focusing on RVD, with Jericho packing heat on him while working along HHH. Then Booker gets in. Well, he's not looking that good, but he's Booker. Then. Well, RVD gets eliminated and the crowd DIES. They didn't want that result at all. From there, after the crowd has died, so does the match and it's only fitting that Kane is getting in to suck like only he can. What a boring worker this guy has been for 25 years. The only thing that save his part is Jericho being thrown through the "bulletproof" glass, which is a gimmick spot but a rather cool one, although it kinda make the announcer look like fools. Also, fucking up your structure in the very first match, well. And also, it makes the Shawn bump later less effective. Crowd couldn't give a fuck otherwise. They just wants HBK to get in. And so he does, bad hair, awful pants (he didn't had his gear), small body. That's the 00's Micheals. Still looks pretty damn good though. HHH has been hiding forever at this point. Once the loads are out of the way, the match gets really good again. Micheals "saving" HHH doesn't make sense with the story the announcers were telling earlier about him only being there to make sure HHH would not win. HHH vs Micheals in 2002 almost feels like nostalgia already, but the final pop is crazy. Micheals in 2002 was a bigger star than anyone is today. Jericho was probably the best in-ring guy though, as the glue-worker, and RVD the most impressive as far as using the gimmick, but Michaels looked good considering it was his second match back in the company. HHH looked like his old solid self, picking his spots effectively. Overall, an up and down match with a crazy first part and a really good finishing stretch, but a very mild and boring middle part with the usual Big Red work killer. So, we can call it very good as a whole, with a great unexpected finish. Clearly a success for this new gimmick but far from a great match.

Ospreay isn't compelling for shits. Original ? Not even that, he's just a flippy guy doing flippy stuff, unlike say, RVD who at least was idiosyncratic (and still remains so, no one works like RVD). Creative as far as adding layers of crazyness yet also stupidity to his acrobatics ? Yes, straight from the Petey Williams/Amazing Red school of inventiveness in the early/mid 00's. Hardly something that should be heralded, unless Canadian Destroyer and Spanish Flies are your idea of great work.

I know. I remember when Gedo & Jado were cult favourites in some circles because they were overt US territory fans. Wasn't Gedo nicknamed "Superfly" in FMW in 2000 or so during the Complete Players (was that the name of the copycat stable with Kaori Nakayama ?) stuff ? Seems like a long time ago, now it's fashionable to bash Gedo for no other reason than NJ being Meltz favourite, despite the fact he's indeed a good booker. Trends come and go...

I don't usually do that but I can't resist that one. "Will Ospreay may be the most talented guy in the business today." Da Meltz 10/02/18. Ok. So, the bastard son of Petey Williams & Amazing Red on coke is the model from pro-wrestling today. Funny thing is that, while praying the match with Takahashi to no ends, he still managed to say that well, if they cut off the 5 or 6 most dangerous spots he would probably have loved it even more and that Ospreay is basically destroying himself and will end up being the next Dynamite Kid (despite having a "great mind for wrestling") and that Takahashi is the one who has the star charisma. So yeah. Meltz loves the crazy moves and flips but... the reasonable part of him, the one who praised (rightfully so) the Nagata vs Kitamura opener and the SANADA vs Okada match, has to know, deep down, that Ospreay is a dumb fuck spot monkey wanker.

Actually, this is more : who gives a flying fuck ?

Thanks for the recommandations, but I'm at this point where I'm just not interested in checking out a guy I can't stand just because he had better performances. Life's too short. Well, if that Okada match happens (yikes), I'll watch it because of Okada, but that's pretty much it. Card was too long and the Ospreay match was a legit chore to get through, especially after the multi-match involving Henare, who looks like a WCW circa 93 Barbarian rip-off and Jay White, who really is a big nothing. Gedo vs BUSHI was "fun" I guess, if you like bullshit with mask and beards. Well, not that fun, really. Too much titles (in every damn match, please, is this Crockett in 88 ?). Too much gaijins. Too much sameness in the tropes. But that's modern NJ wrestling for you. Enjoyed the opener with the roided rookie Kitamura being schooled by veteran Nagata (who's sporting the cool old All Asia tag belt). The Junior tag-team match was very good with a super solid performance from Desperado & Kanemaru. Enjoyed the Fuyuki-Gun multi-match because they kept it moving and Suzuki vs Makabe is at least intriguing on a "can Suzuki carry Makabe to a fun match" level. Naito vs YOSHI-HASHI was very good/excellent, Goto vs EVIL was good (but by then I was annoyed and tired because of the series of mediocre matches). Okada vs SANADA was great and all about selling and psychology as opposed to do a bunch of big moves and no-selling them. Simple, slow paced but took the time to build, reminded me of a 90's match. Probably even MOTYC caliber for me. So I can't complain, really, but you could scratch a good hour from the show. And I'm guessing the English broadcast made things worst, I'm only getting the Japanese version now, don't want to hear Kelly babble about star ratings.

To the question : what is wrong with today's pro-wrestling, the answer is : Will Ospreay vs Hiromu Takahashi. And really, Will Ospreay. This guy is a perfect synthesis of everything wrong about "Millenials Wrestling". He's an unbelievable athlete. He's also a godawful pro-wrestler. I have no doubt Meltz will praise this ridiculous match to the highest of hights, which means you'll have to take a shower hearing him talk about it. Either this, or pro-wrestling has definitely passed me by. But really, I have loved tons of current pro-wrestling, so I don't think it's the case. This match was painfull to match. Made no fucking sense. Had every worst indiefest spot imaginable. Selling was dogshit in a cosplay way (because Ospreay pretends he's selling, but it comes off as absolutely fake). Death spots were not sold as such. And there were even some sloppy spots (mostly on Ospreay's part), because what they did was so difficult to do that it's impossible to pull everything off totally clean, despite the fact it is supposed to. Ospreay's game is all about "look at me doing incredible moves", as his constant mugging at the camera betrays (don't give me "character work" shit here). It's Instagram Pro-wrestling. If the guy could take selfies of himself while working, he'd do it. It's pro-wrestling-for-GIFs. It's Snapchat pro-wrestling. It's terrible.

Hog Wild wasn't a watch-along though, but yeah, it was quite an interesting episode.

The shittiest the PPV, the best the watch along, usually. Like it's been said, Havoc 95 has awesome stuff. Starrcade 97 was quite good too.

There's plenty of good stuff on Souled Out. The opener, Raven vs Benoit, Jericho vs Rey, Martel vs Booker, Flair vs Bret. And there's plenty of stuff they could have talked about with beginning the last great grossing years for WCW, instead they spend an entire match talking shit of Scott Steiner's owing Conrad money or something.

Avoid Souled Out 98. One of the worst watch-along show thus far. Spent way too much time not talking about the show *at all*.

Vince was a fresh act too. He "turned heel" (from being just an announcer) with the Bret screwjob, a few months before. And he was a great character. Stephy has been on TV on and off for almost 20 years at this point. 20 fucking years of dreadful promos and acting (yeah, she showed ass on occasion, mostly in the beginning, but she mostly acted like she was the Mother Hen and above any wrestler for most of this long, looooong time). As far as Rousey goes, nobody knows if she'll be any good at this point, either in the ring of as a character. And another sign they can't get over the Attitude Era. So yeah. A huge turn-off.

Ah ah ah. Stephy. She'll be on WWE TV for the next 20 years.

This about sums up why WWE has mostly been a shitty pro-wrestling promotion since it's became a publicly shared company. Pro-wrestling needs an alternative. Not ROH. Not TNA. It needs a new WCW. Well, not exactly, but you get my drift.

Because anyone knows who the fuck Stephy is already outside of the US wrestling bubble ?

I wish I had came off with that one !

Thanks. I don't mind a watch along once in a while. One of my favourite thus far, because it was one of the funniest to me, was actually the XFL.

Interesting as opposed to exciting as a TV product, yes. I mean, NJ delivers awesome main events regularly on big shows but the average undercard is bleh. Usual weekly WWE TV (not talking about NXT) is still unwatchable to me because of the format, production and god-awful scripted (in-ring promos and backstage stuff) shit. As a guy who never cared one bit about MMA, the Rousey stuff is interesting as far as business goes and how this woman will do in the company, but I never even saw her before the Rumble, so invested I'm not even one bit. Indy wrestling I have no interest into, really, as the style isn't for me (tried ROH a few times, never cared for it). Basically, what wrestling needs is a format change, and as long as WWE has no challenger, it won't happen. So I just wish LU gets a good fun S4, really. Availability is insane indeed.

Angle is underrated at this point. His work in TNA from his start up to where I'm at in early 2008 has only been a plus in my book. Is Angle the best comedic main-eventer ever ? I mean, no one has been pushed as the top guy while being portrayed as a goofball like he did. And in the ring, yeah, he was a go-go guy, but his matches with Joe are terrific and his feud with Christian clearly delivered too. He's on the upswing with me. He's also straight from the Ric Flair (go-go-go) school of work, down to his submission hold that everyone knows how to counter (which used to annoy me, but I take it as an Angle trope at this point, much like I ended up accepting the stupid as fuck 619).

Watching AJ Styles under Russo in TNA in late 00's is pretty eye opening. Despite the booking clearly making him second fiddle to Angle and a goof of a character, Styles still manages to shine whatever position he was put in, and he was a trooper in the backstage/angle stuff. His stuff with Karen showed how much he embraced whatever was thrown at him and was all about making it work, no matter how goofy it was.

BTW Thread Killa, do you recommend actually doing the watch along with this episode, or do you think it would work just as well just listening to it (like you, I used to not be thrilled with the watch along formula for Tony's show, but I actually warmed up to it because I'm an old WCW mark and I don't mind rewatching this stuff *one more time*, again, after all) ?