El-P

It appears that there was pro-wrestling in Japan in 2009. And there even was another edition of the J Cup, hosted by New Japan again. I don't think I was even aware of that fact. So, that's the ultimate dive into the unknown for me. Korakuen Hall. Ok, that I recognize. Tiger Mask on announcing. So, he's not part of this one. No idea who was active at the time. And so we get a : First round Tigers Mask vs Taichi Tigers Mask is doing a hobbling pirate entrance. I LOVE this guy already. He seems a little bit heelish too now. Taichi has elvolved from a generic AJ rookie to a very glamorous look, complete with terrific bad japanese boy-host hairstyle. Hot sprint. You can see the difference in quickness with what was done ten years before. Spot-spot-spot, but damn good as Taichi is trying to outdo dick heel Tigers. The swipe of the hand was a nifty spot. Short, but quite hot and really good. Ryusuke Taguchi vs Gentaro Oh, so that why Taguchi got the Funky Weapon moniker. Feel the 'fro. Japanese guys always were the afro in a stylish way. He's not a comedy guy at all, although he does the hip swivel on occasion. No butt attack either, but some really crisp looking work. Gentaro I remember from K-Dojo. At first, looks like kinda generic indy guy, but the guy surely knows how to work, including beautiful flying spots. You can see the level of athleticism has raised quite a bit. Fifiteen years before, Gentaro would have been Motegi. Started ok, ended quite good. AKIRA vs Yamato Akira Nogami gets in the J Cup in 2009 ? WTF ? Yamato I've never heard of, but he's a young punk. That's a dynamic that can work. Old AKIRA can still go apparently, and although his flying spots look his age, this totally works in a veteran vs youngin way. That's a third good match in a row and an impressive performance from the veteran. Nice surprise. Jury's out on Yamato. Jado vs Danshoku Dino Ok, so, Dino is a pervert. And he's gay and wants to kiss guys in the audience. Comedy match, with Jado playing it straight (no pun intended) while delivering heavy looking chops to poor Dino. It last waaaaaaaay longer than it should, although I guess the payoff works better that way. Not sure I want to see another Dino match though. Only in Japan that could work. Jado looks ripped and quite the chopper. Decent for a change of pace I guess. Gedo vs Kota Ibushi And now we're getting to the next level with Ibushi. He was in DDT at the time. Gedo is ripped, works slow pace and straight heel. Plays base for Ibushi's great flying around work. Slow build to a really hot finishing stretch, with quite the perfectly put together finish. Ibushi looks terrific already, Gedo looks efficient as hell. Very good match. Prince Devitt vs Atsushi Aoki Ok, so Devitt was IWGP champ at the time. So I guess he's going long here. Aoki is a NOAH guy I remember having seen at some point. Holy hell, these guys are working fast and crisp ! This is clearly a 2010's match. Brutal arm work by Aoshi, which is sold quite well by Devitt, who isn't a Devil yet but quite a devilish worker. So much female screams too. I wonder if he face-fucked some of these Korakuen Hall girls. Super fast and intense work, extremely well executed. Totally different than the previous match in that they kicked in high gear almost immediately, but you can't deny the great action. Fujita Jr. Hayato vs Koji Kanemoto Girls are going insane for Hayato, who's a young punk it appears. Kanemoto is an old prick. Both kick hard. How can that not go along well ? And it does. Excellent match, where the young tries to upstage the veteran. Such a classic story, especially when both are shooty and shit. Kanemoto's execution still looks both flawless and safe. They also protect themselves from kick to the face while selling beautifully. This had it all, the work, the attitude, the hot finishing stretch. Beautiful. Jushin Liger vs Naomichi Marufuji The Super J Cups champs going at it. Liger takes it down and slower. Marufuji looks better than five years before, although I do understand the dislike for some of his offense. He's a definite acquired taste. Damn this is an "then ace" vs "now ace" match, and it developps into greatness. How was Liger doing to be this good still ? This is the opposite of the 2010's match earlier, totally less is more, and make the most out of every shoteis. Matwork, bombs and punishment from Liger and tricky stuff from Maru. Liger puts over the new ace in the first round and all is well in the world. Ok. This puts to shame every first round of past J Cups. Apart from the Dino match which was comedy, everything was at least good or better, mostly very good leaning on excellent, with one great match involving (doh !) Jushin Fucking Liger at 45 years old or something. Variety too, with straight sprint action, heelish slower pace, futuristic work, old vs young, legend vs ace, you name it. The veterans all delivered big time at their own level (obviously AKIRA is no Liger not Kanemoto). This was a fantastic first round and I didn't even know it existed. How peculiar.

Anoushka Shankar. Sitar. Raaaah lovely ! It's fucking pro-wrestling. It's pretty self-explanatory. The most "alien" style (alien compared to what BTW ?) doesn't take much to be understood and appreciated for what it is. After a bunch of matches, you quickly get a feel of what's happening and the indiosyncrasies of the style.

Holy shit.

Indeed. I'm amazed. What has Chyna done apart from being a truly efficient gimmicky valet for a year or two before becoming an atrocious in-ring worker ? Did she move any kind of needle like Sable did during the Attitude Era, which would be the *only* semi-valid criteria to event have her approach the ballot ?

Pat yourself on the back, man, Horowitz' style.

All I've got to go on is what you write, as you've pointed out I can't mind read. That post suggested to me that you didn't connect the dots and it also strongly suggested that you weren't entirely aware how influential that idea of the aliens and the winks has been. If you were aware of it, fine, you made it seem like you were not. I still think it is super relevant to the thread. I think my post was pretty clear : "I have no fucking idea how that's relevant to what I just said". If I didn't understand the thing or disagreed with this idea (which would be bold of me), I would have expressed it in a different way. I always bet on the intelligence of whom I speak to. Doesn't change the fact that you use a patronizing tone. Fair enough. Point taken. That makes about less than ten women in your top 100 musical acts. Ok. Wonder whom they are (although I can see at least one coming, I would guess Patti Smith). Well, I think it's another pretty telling fact that your list really isn't eclectic, which was where this whole debacle started from. Oh, well.

You're the one namedropping all the time. You're well red, we know that. We got it. And yes, you *assume* that I didn't get the wink thing. The whole "it's on you/connect the dot" shit, that's patronizing. Again, stop doing that. You may think it's relevant. I don't. I get your point. I don't see it as relevant. Sorry. As far as "writing off Bob Dylan", it's pretty funny you'd take my post *literally*. I posted the video in hopes anyone who would listen to it would maybe enjoy (or hell, love) it while doing a stupid little jab at Bob Dylan like I would Flair, just to tease your sense of über seriousness. Well, I overreached I guess. That being said Aşık Mahzuni Şerif is a fucking giant that I'm glad I discovered. Anyway, wanna talk about the fact there are barely any women on your music list now ?

I connected the dots the first time I read your post. Stop patronizing. No one here is a student of yours. You're truly unbearable.

I'm not shocked. It's simply not relevant to anything I said. And don't talk to me like I'm the guy running the ferris wheel at the county fair, thank you very much. I could drop some Gille Deleuze's take on Spinoza in the debate too, relative to "affinities", although I wouldn't be able to express myself with clarity enough in a foreign language (yeah, I'm good enough to talk about wrestling, but I do have my limitations in English) The fact is, you don't even try to understand what *I* am saying, while I totally understand what *you* say. Because much like you always do, you simply refuse to even listen and just like to pontify. How the fuck do you know what I see in Sait Faik, Pessoa, Beckett (who wrote in French a lot, so I guess he's allright) or Thomas Bernhard and why it resonnates with me ? You have no idea.

Honestly, I have no fucking idea how that's relevant to what I just said. Remote tribes ? Wink ? Really ? Whatever.

I don't get where you come from. It's like you think everything has to be some kind of big study and having to make assessments about everything. Doesn't work like that. You don't need to understand everything about everything. You won't be able to. But you can discover you have affinities for some things. I would rather read Turkish novelist Saif Faik and Portuguese poet Fernando Pessoa than good old Zola or any other french writer who are "my" historical culture but with whom I don't have affinities with. Sait Faik, yes, there's something that resonnate, despte the translation, despite the fact he's talking about a world I'm not really familiar with. And it's not a matter of "exotism" (which is an awful thing). It's a matter of having affinities with ideas, musics, words. You only pick what works for you.

Well, to each his own I guess. Damn, if I grew up speaking two languages, which is an amazing start in life, I would totally be exploring the two cultures. That's such a great thing to have. A friend of mine is actually an Iranian music lover despite not speaking Farsi. He learned to play the sêtar and I believe is working on a book about Iranian music. So there. As far as "making a list", well, I've been writing about music for years now. But it's in French only, so…. There you have it. Taxi Teheran by Jafar Panahi is a great movie. Golshifteh Farahani, well, I'm in love with, and she's a terrific actress to boot.

In other words, learn to love it, Bob Dylan ain't shit compared to the mighty Aşık Mahzuni Şerif :

I don't understand that way of thinking *at all*. I find it pretty self-centered around a culturally dominating culture and quite lazy to be honest, coming from someone who's not exactly the type to be satisfied with just whatever comes off the radio. Doesn't show a lot of curiosity. Plus, there's so much music "without words", to begin with. And then again, with not understanding the words, surely something is lost in translation (although not always, really, it's much better to not understand words with tons of english speaking stuff too, really, depth my ass), but there's so much more than just the meaning of said words. Listening to Turkish folk, I can get shivers just because of the expressivity, not to mention the amazing baglama music. A lot of the french singers I like the most are the ones who are a bit cryptic and not too litteral. The sound of the words meaning more than the words themselves. And like I said, the amazing amount of actual instrumental music makes it easy to listen to something other than the good ol' US & UK rock & pop stuff. As Björk would have put out "There's more to life than this." (do you also not read anything that's not English or American because of the translations issues ? I mean, whenever there's a translation, you can't get the pure poetry of the actual words)

Ordered 20 pizzas ?

Oh fuck yeah ! His punches look terrific most of the times.

That's the Lemmy theorem about music And Lemmy is God, ya know.

As far as style goes ? Never got into straight lucha, but never quite made the effort to. And yeah, I admit I may don't get the style entirely, but then again, I would never say lucha libre is a bad pro-wrestling style. It would be ridiculous. Maybe it's just not for me. I dunno. I loved numbers of luchadors working elsewhere. I loved some lucha matches I checked for the GWE poll in 2006. As far as what I don't like. Well, I don't like shitty pro-wrestling. But there's shitty pro-wrestling all over. Hell, most pro-wrestling is shitty.

I've said it again and again, I'm an ECW fan. FMW is also one of the dearest promotion in my heart. I love Onita. And I'm a huge shoot-style fan. My favourite pro-wrestling match ever is Tamura vs Khosaka 30 mn draw from 98. And likewise, I think the nWo era Nitros are the apex of US pro-wrestling TV. I don't think I'm schizophrenic at all.

Raaah, that pic of Apple. So cute. (and yeah cute girl + fresh beer = winning combination) I actually got the blessing part from Ebessan. Cool gimmick. Well, so here we are, the final part of the fourth Super J Cup aka Osaka Pro Familial Indy Sleaze Supercard. Jushin Liger & Jinsei Shinzaki & Super Delphin vs CIMA & Heat & KENTA Holy shit, you could have put some of these guys in the J Cup !!! Come on. This is quite another fantastic dream match with the legends (well, Delphin is an Osaka legend) vs the young punks. Heat was Minoru Tanaka doing his own Kendo KaShin and it was never a good idea since the guy is good looking like crazy. Hey, he married Yumi Fukawa, don't put *that* guy under a mask. Each time I see Shinzaki, I have to admit he's still one of my all-time favourite. So feline. He does a double wrist-lock rope walk here, which is extra nice. CIMA & KENTA are all full of spunk and bile. CIMA can also make an ass out of himself and seem better than he was in 00. Liger still looks like an excellent worker, while Heat does some heatless but good shoot-style stuff. Very good match again and always fun to get such pairings. Final Naomichi Marufuji vs Takehiro Murahama Not as good as the Inoue match, but still very good. Murahama is my new favourite fake shoot-style indy guy. After watching some Marufuji stuff from the G1, I think I like him as stiff grumpy vet better than junior superkicker. Not the biggest an of his finishing hold either, which rings echoes of Spike Dudley, which is never good. He's still an impressive worker in spots and does work some good sequences with Takehiro, creating a doubt in the issue of the match. He does win the big prize, which makes sense, as NOAH's number one junior. Well, the card, as a J Cup, wasn't on par with the other one because of not enough participants and really only two or three match above *good*, but the final was certainly better than the previous one. Murahama & Inoue looked the best, with Maru just behind, so can't complain about the booking either. Considering teh whole card however, it was probably the most fun, because of variety. The presentation was also the best, with elaborate setting and just Mania-level intros for Ebessan & Kamen. So there, I guess since Osaka Pro had that reputation of crowd pleasing, fun promotion, this is straight in line. Loved that card.

C'est trop, vraiment.

Semi finals Naomichi Marufuji vs Garuda I admit, I enjoy the trance-like Maru theme. Garuda is totally an Hayabusa Redux, but he's just not clicking with me thus far. Maybe too much an Hayabusa Redux. Good little match though. I understand why some people despise Maru's kicks, some just don't look on point, but then again, no one bumps big for them, it appears he really uses them as set-ups and accumulative damage tools, which is neat. Garuda does a beautiful quebrada. Which is kinda eerie. Takehiro Murahama vs. Wataru Inoue Ok, now we're fucking talking. I love Murahama already. He's so lumpy looking, he's like a junior Kitahara. And he's GOOD. Wataru fights the shoot-style with his own New Japan stiffness and quickies. Elbow exchange, one of the new tropes I never cared much for got at this point I totally accepted it, plus it's like a detail. This is excellent. I like both these guys a lot. Murahama going over was kinda predictable in a sense that Delphin is hosting the Cup, but it's well deserves and fits with the J Cup arcs since the beginning (Sasuke, Gedo, CIMA aka "the indy flavour" vs major league star) Intermezzo Shiryu vs TAKA Michinoku vs Billy Ken Kid & Tigers Mask I aways wondered how Tigers Mask was looking like. Both these guy's outfits are winners. Man, Hayashi put on the Shiryu mask back on ? This is a Kaientai DX reunion, and it fucking rules ! Hayashi is buffed too, and he doesn't do the Benoit tribute anymore. TAKA still looks like TAKA, although a bit bigger, and is still an asshole. Amazing that WWF casted him as a babyface, although he was good at it at this young age. This is the best match of the show. The Osaka Pro babyface seem to be really good worker too, gotta love the baseball spots Tigers does. And damn, Hayashi and TAKA ? Totally ace rudos, crisp offense, TAKA is such a dickhead too. The one thing I never liked about his offense when he came back to Japan is that awkawrd looking Just Facelock. Stupid name too. You can see the WWE influence there. Well, terrific match. Ok, now the good stuff is piling up, and the non-tournament matches are like an indy dream card mashup with actual results.

You've been reading my music list so far, is that true? For fuck's sake. No jazz apart from a few vocal jazz and old swing stuff, no metal, no experimental. No *women* almost. And hell, out of the 75 first entries, NOTHING that is not anglo-saxon. Really open-minded stuff, yeah. I can listen to Selda Bağcan, Darkthrone, Jacques Brel and Steve Reich the same day without having to put myself in any specific kind of mind and enjoy the fuck out of their respective brillance.

Looking forward to your review of the Osaka J-Cup! I think anyone who deliberately watched the Dying Years of WCW and Early TNA and found stuff to love even there... such a person has definitively proven their love for pro wrestling. Perhaps, he has gone too far in doing so. The Osaka J-Cup is going on there : http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/35353-back-to-the-super-j-cups/?p=5768236 Well, I went too far. Or I'm just dumb as fuck. Either way.

2004. I was out of the loop by that time, but I do remember hearing about the fourth J-Cup promoted by Osaka Pro, and hearing about the result too (NOAH was the hot promotion at the time, so it made sense). Never got to see it. Well, first thing, the setting is impressive, more elaborate than any other J-Cup thus far. It seems like they made it a spectacle. Only huit guys so on paper it seems like a mini-J Cup more than anything. First round Jun Kasai vs Naomichi Marufuji Kasai was that sick fuck from Big Japan, but apparently was working for ZERO-1 at that time. Monkey tale and all. Still all about using gimmicks, splashing Maru through a table at ringside. Well, I guess it's a change of pace, but not exactly what you'd expect froma J-Cup. Match was ok, but mostly Maru letting Kasai do his garbage thing until a comeback and win. Decent stuff and Kasai was quite the character. Garuda vs GOA Damn, Garuda ! One of the last tape I bought was that first WMF show, the post FMW Hayabusa promotion, with Garuda as an ace. Whatever happened to him ? GOA I don't know. I guess he's an Osaka Pro guy (never saw an Osaka Pro show before this one, I know, I know). Both have cool masks and outfit, although Garuda is very Hayabusa Redux. Work is ok, nothing special. Indy lucharesu from the 00's. GOA does look good. Wataru Inoue vs Kazuya Yuasa Inoue, damn, an 00's NJ junior. I forgot he even existed. Looks slim and trim. Yuasa is a MPro guy I never seen before, nor heard about. Hey, stiffness ! Ok, so Wataru is the worker of teh night thus far, and Yuasa has that indy shoot-style stuff that I enjoy. They do beat the hell out fo each others. Best match thus far, first really good one. I forgot Inoue was good and stiffy like this. Takehiro Murahama vs Taichi Ishikari So, Murahama is Osaka Pro's shootstyle ace, in a BatBat way. Ishikari is an All Japan rookie who does the underdog deal here, trying to fight against Murahama's kicks and shit. Takehiro really has that short, uncharismatic WAResque charm to him and seems to work like a mofo. Finally kicks young Taichi into oblivion. Quite good for what it is, Ishikari seemed to have potential and Takehiro has to go all the way so I get more of this shoot-style goodness. Intermezzo Apple Miyuki vs Ofune The K-Dojo girls. A K-Dojo show was also one of the last tape I ever bought. I kinda connect the dots here. Miyuki was the serious TAKA student. Ofune was the masked Magical Girl I guess. A bit of comedy which worked well, the work was no better than ok. Yagi vs ASARI this isn't, but they were still basically rookies. Apple had some potential. Ofune, not so sure. MEN's Teioh & MIKAMI & Tomohiro Ishii vs Kintaro Kanemura & Azteca & MA-G-MA Indy sleaze 6-men ! Team No Respect dance ! I haven't seen this for a while. So, Teoih looks just as good as he did in the previous J-Cup, wo why wasn't he put into this ? Mikami is that guy from DDT with a ladder. The Osaka Pro heels look really good, specially MA-G-MA, in a fat rudo way. Ishii is not yet the stiffness pitbull fro New Japan, he was actually in Choshu's shortlived promotion. Already working stiff as hell though. Really fun sprint, with Kanemura doing pretty much was he was doing since the latter days of FMW, before fucking up his career by sexually assulting a girl, this stupid asshole. I really liked that guy until then. Ok, so, at one point, teh ref is jumping up and down and stomping the mat again and again, seemingly for no reason. What was that all about ?! Ebessan vs Kuishinbo Kamen This looks like the fucking main event, with intros that go forever, with dancers and shit ! This is great ! I have no idea what is happening here, but these guys are giving any presents (candy ?) to the audience in exchange for something. Lost in translation, but nonetheless quite the fun part. Excellent comedy and good match. These two were like the Misawa vs Kobashi of comedy wrestling I guess. Well, it looks more like a big Osaka Pro event with indy super-cast than your regular J-Cup. The first round was nothing special at all, with only one really good match, but the indy sleaze in all its glory makes for a fun show thus far.