El-P
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I agree. I enjoyed the matches because Val was a solid wrestler and I always liked Dustin, but the angle was all screwed up with no face nor heel. Thus far, totally inefficient in telling a compelling story wrestling-wise. Add to that the fact JR was bashing Terri for basically being a slut, totally forgetting that she had been treated like complete shit by Dustin a few months prior and dumped live on TV. The moral stance by JR about Terri was completely ridiculous, she totally had the right to fuck whoever she wanted and get her revenge on Dustin. So you had : _face Val Venis because it was cool to be a porn star womanizer _heel Dustin because he was an uncool religious zelot, although having a "cool" sexual double entendre acronym again (the infamous EATME) _face Terri (audience) because she was hot and getting her revenge on uncool Dustin / heel Terri (Ross, who was the face announcer), because she was "dressing up like a slut" and fucking another guy, despite having been treated like dirt and dumped on live TV by Dustin. Then : _tweener Val Venis because he was still cool to cheer but Goldust was cooler _face Goldust because he was Goldust and that was a cool gimmick and he swore vengeance on Val and Terri, who he had dumped before in a heinous act that turned him heel before _heel Terri because.... she was a slut (??) Then : _face Terri because she was in love and pregnant from Val _face (WTF ???) Val who dumped a supposedly pregnant Terri, and god knows that is a funny move to make for a babyface, but I remembered it was cheered (no idea how Ross sold the whole deal) _heel Terri trying to get back with Goldust, the lowly bitch she is (man, this girl always gets the bad end of the stick when she's dumped in humiliating ways) _face Terri when she got a miscarriage, because I guess even for such a bitch (at least we're supposed to believe so), this is really a tragedy _heel Terri : she really wasn't pregnant _tweener Terri : she got revenge on Val which got a face pop (on Val who was supposed to be the "cool" guy to the audience), and formed PMS, which is the most embarrassing name ever to give a female stable. To me this is the most mindblowingly fucked up angle and the picture perfect definition of Russo's shock TV formula : sex, nonsensical heel/face turns (if you can even call it that), no focus on wrestling at all (we had what, two matches out of the whole deal), and of course complete mistreatment of the woman character, complete with embarrassment, humiliation and being presented as both a sex object and a slut. You've got it all there. Another totally nonsensical angle/stipulation with the same "morals" came a few months later in the Goldust vs Jarrett feud, in which Debra had to strip if Jarrett lost. I don't remember the details exactly, but it was just the same kind of mess with screwed up dynamics and way to present the female character.
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I still remember how nice Zack Morris was by putting some money in the payphone for the homeless father to get. You are so dating youselves. (and yes, I watched Saved by the Bell too, and I got a kick out of having the two hot girls showing up in minor roles in two Woody Allen movies years later)
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Excellent match. I can't believe WWF didn't do that one PPV in 1992, when it was actually the first meeting between those two. Agreed it was a Hogan match and not a Flair match, but it's also the best Hogan match since the Hansen one at the Tokyo Dome in 1990, and probably much better than anything he did during his stay in the WWF. Once I get past the whole hulk up gimmick which I don't care for, the work is about as good as you'll get from a 40+ years old Hogan match. Flair is tremendous adapting to his style, they actually work some real surprising tide reversals (finish could have come sooner in a lesser match), and all felt really like the biggest match in WCW history, and actually the biggest match in US wrestling in years. Judging from this one alone, getting Hogan was indeed a coup, as the PPV felt more major league and big time than any other WCW PPV in history so far (the fact it was a great PPV from start to finish didn't hurt either), with a big and super heated crowd. Under control, Hogan could have worked out much better in the long haul.... ... but of course backstage you see Brother Bruti and Hacksaw Duggan show up... maybe things won't look that great for too long...
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I don't know what match you were all watching, really. I thought this was excellent, slow build to an exciting finish match. The "Dragon Slayer" tights are glorious. Austin was already looking like the next Flair.
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Good match, as even Arn was excellent on the outside despite not actually wrestling. Buck is still dull as all hell, but Funk is so great it doesn't matter. In true WCW fashion, the director actually misses Arn's DDT. The highlight of a decent feud thus far. -
Sports is never a progressive place to begin with. There's a reason why. (and wrestling has always been at the bottom of the barrel on social representations anyway : misoginy, xenophobia and homophobia are rampant, always have been in pro-wrestling)
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I have batch an eye or two to the documentary. Holy shit, they actually illustrate how "superior storytelling that made sense" was the backbone of the era by showing clips of "It was me all along", Helmsley and Stephy getting married and Big Boss Man dragging Big Show's dad coffin around. How do you say already ? BONG ?
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"He's ambitiously stupid" - Why Scott Keith's new book is scary bad
El-P replied to Bix's topic in Megathread archive
So, the sharpest thing he ever said was actually Cornette's. -
We need a scorecard for Terry Funk retirements vs Flair marriages. 18 times divorcee !!! Woooo ! To be with the Man, you've got to marry the Man !
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One week before the biggest match in the history of our sport, Flair plays total bitch to Sting, gets no offense in, Sherri disguised as a guy because she was banned from ringside (while Hogan of course can sit right before the ring, what an asshole), Mr. T saves Hogan from a Flair beatdown. Well, didn't take long to turn into complete shitty booking.
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Mr. T. In 1994. Hogan brings relevance to WCW.
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Woooo ! (Will Fifi dare to marry this walking mess ?)
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Agreed. Kobashi should have retired after his one comeback match from cancer. It was a nice moment, should have hang it up then. And FLIK is probably right in that if they leave they will start yet another micro-promotion. Anyway, NOAH looks like a doomed promotion.
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Wait, by whom Shane Douglas has been rated to begin with, in 2012 ? What did he do except work his disastrous Extreme Reunion show ?
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I don't really get your point about Flair not being Flair anymore. Maybe I've seen way too much Nitro era Flair to be bothered. Anyway, good little promo. I can see why you said Sherri didn't exactly fit with Flair though, but since it's the hyperactive Flair version we got there, it's not that odd actually.
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These guy just can't have a bad, or even mediocre, match together. I thought about the Finlay matches too watching this. They seemed to have a ball working together too, it's intense, stiff, technical, fun. One of the best feud of the year hands down.
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This is what WWF should have done back in 1992, obviously. Hogan was too goofy and cartoonish for these kind of settings (ah, remember his totally oversold reaction at the Royal Rumble 92 "press conference"), but Flair is great here. Flair being hyper is nothing new to the character and having him really excited (and anxious, as he's a full fledge heel now) at the idea of fighting Hogan works for me. Hogan comes off unlikable as always when he says Flair has no choice but to sign the paper. Here you go dictator Bollea. Turner is a mark, which is fun to see.
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What if Sting turns instead of Hogan? No way in hell it would have worked as well. I'm not saying it wouldn't have worked and it would have been a huge shock. But Hogan turning had an impact unlike anything in modern wrestling history and I say that without a hint of hyperbole. This. Sting was considered for the job actually, as was Luger. Hogan was just on another level. Plus it fit so well with all his history in WCW and the frustration of the old fans who never quite adopted him and saw him as a WWF guy. In that respect, Hogan turning heel made Sting a much bigger babyface than he ever was before too.
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The thing people seem to forget, although John talked about it earlier, is that the nWo angle didn't need Sting to take off. It needed Hogan. Then the angle became the hottest in the decade with Sting being involved much anymore. The main single matches worked for the first six months were against : Flair, Giant, Savage and Piper. Sure, Sting was over as all hell in 1997, when he wasn't actually working. But DDP was over as all hell too, as was Luger (the pop he gets when he wins the title from Hogan on Nitro is defining). I'm not saying he deserves no credit in the whole thing. He was an important figure in 1997 opposing the nWo. Would the angle have been any less hot without him ? I doubt it honestly. Like Dylan said, there were other foils for the nWo like Flair when he came back, DDP working with Savage, Luger. By 1998, Goldberg had taken the promotion by storm, and Sting wasn't relevant as the big number one face anymore. He was just another guy wearing the (red) nWo colors.
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I guess I'm in the minority, but I think Flair and Sting never get the best out of each other, them working together pretty much always garantees a lower denominator match with cliché spots and sequences being repeated like routines with lots of begging, lots of Sting no-selling, hiptosses and Flair Flops. This is the case here, although to me this is better than their famous and not very good 1990 match, mostly because Sting is a much better worker at this point. There's a nice spot in which Sting anticipates the Flair Flop on the corner and blast him with a clothesline before Flair gets to run the apron. The Sherri turn you could see come from a mile away, but kudoos to her for catching Sting and taking that nasty bump on the floor. She was a trooper. And of course the annoying part, because you have to know the show will be all about Hogan from now on. First off, Heenan is beloved, but he was just as much a Hogan bitch as Gene was. Second of all, Hogan and Flair having physical contact already (with Flair begging like a bitch) was stupid. Third, Jimmy Hart is fucking unbearable as Hogan's retarded jumping bitch. I don't care how great he was in Memphis, these years as Hogan's stooge are enough for me to erase whatever goodwill I have toward this guy. Here you can hear him tell Hogan to "Hit her ! Hit her !", meaning Sherri. WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE ! This is a guy encouraging your number one American hero and babyface to hit a woman in the face on a show destined at kids (yeah, now that Hogan is in the place, the demos targetted by the company is kids). To me it's way more disturbing that Tommy Dreamer actually piledriving Beulah on a freak-show promotion with a metal/grungy/porn-trash mentality. I think I hate Jimmy Hart the Hulkamaniac more than Bruti. Anyway, Hogan is in the place and he's already unbearable like he was in the WWF. The heel turn can't happen soon enough. Oh, you mean I have two years of Hulkamania to suffer through before Hulk becomes somewhat enjoyable ? Fuck me.
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Man, I never saw this before. Hogan gets booed out of the building ! Makes for a fun moment. Flair has a nervous breakdown. I really wonder why he choosed to go that route, why not remain the poised champion he portrayed for the last few months ?
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Dustin, you stoopid. The old Arn means he's gonna stab you (pun intended) in the back. Yeah, good promo. WTF was Dustin wearing ? He sure was preparing himself for those Goldust robes.
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Shaq was relevant. Mr. T, not so much...
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Another very good match, if a bit rushed. Calling this a great match is clearly pushing it way beyond what it is though. Zbyszko and Regal had a terrific chemistry together.
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Awwwww Gawwwwwd....... Brotha, dude, Hulkamania brutha.... Jimmy Hart jumping around like a retarded little bitch. Gene sucking hard on Hogan's dick and swallowing to boot. "The Greatest Moment in the History of Wrestling." Brutha, the big man upstairs dude ! Fake parade. WATCHAGONNADOBROTHA ! AWWWWW GAAWWWWWWWWWDDDD !!!!! My WCW fandom feels raped. WCW 1.0 is dead. Welcome to WCW 2.0, the WWFesque version.