Matt D

So they put Orton vs Reigns to end the Rumble so that Orton will get a big pop to win. They put Wyatt vs Styles so that he'll get a heel reaction.

Bliss has developed into a pretty good Honky Tonk Man.

I'll comment on Bock vs JYD later. What I'll say quickly is that it's the Bock vs JYD match I'd been waiting for. The ones we have up until now range among the most disappointing of Bockwinkel's matches. This, on the other hand, might be JYD's career match and is really a strong vulnerable heel champ match. I'm biased here, though, so let's wait to hear what Pete has to say. I liked the six man a lot. I thought the beginning was properly chaotic and that it settled into a solid tag with a FIP on Duncum. Manny had a feel like Savage from this era, just more electric than everyone else. Tully and Patton worked well together cutting off the ring and controlling things. I liked it. Brody vs Patera I liked less. I thought it was structured well and that Patera brought a real presence and credibility but Brody, while basically doing the right things, had all of the trappings of lackluster execution (weak weak offense) that we're used to with him in a lot of his matches. Good on paper, less so in reality. I'm glad we have it though because it's such a conceptual mismatch. Gordy vs Williams was great. This is one I think we had but never in full and it shouldn't be clipped. So much of the match is set up by Gordy trying to strongarm Williams early on (like he'd do with everyone else) only to hit a brick wall. He had to change up his strategy throughout the match to get any advantage. It's great to see Williams' progression through the matches we have on the service. He was much more complete by this point. It takes a lot for a match to end in a double countout like this but still feel wholly satisfying.

Cross-posting this one. I'm usually terrible at that: This was an absolute classic. Funk is a mad wrestling genius. He's one of the greatest sellers of all time, someone who could get across damage, both in the moment and cumulative, but also that could sell the drama of any situation. Race is as credible as any wrestler ever, a bumper and a stooger, and I don't think we've ever had a match which shows his ability to do the little things as well as this one. It was an NWA title match so there are certain things you'd expect, first and foremost the early matwork. in that regard, this goes above and beyond. It might be the best I've ever seen from this era. After some early feeling out (which was short but interesting in and of itself on the way that they build to the lock up and use rope breaks and even just the way Funk's hands shake as he's anticipating the lock up with his manic energy), Funk starts on the arm. It's the most compelling stuff you've ever seen. There's constant motion and struggle, constant jockeying, constant shifting of position. Moreover, there's constant imagination. Normally, you might see them move in and out of the hold, interspersing it with spots. That comes eventually, but at first, it's all about cutting off attempts at escape and escalating the amount of damage being done. There's two or three points where Boesch points out that Funk's doing something he hasn't seen before, and in one case, when Funk uses his leg to half-nelson Race so that he can put on some sort of crazy modified grounded octopus, there's one that I've never seen before, even forty years later. When they move out of it, Funk hits a near press slam on Race. When they go back into it, the shots of Funk grinding his foot into Race's face are downright grisly. It's all spirited as hell and it spoils you for almost every other title match you'll see. Then comes the cut. It's frustrating, not because it exists in and of itself, but because it means we miss how Race gets an advantage. When we come back, Race had just hit a trademark headbutt on Funk, to the temple (maybe that's how he took over? We've seen him use it as a transition before), and is in charge with a headlock. Race is not the world's best seller. A lot of Flair's bad habits in dropping limb selling potentially stems from his emulation of Race. I love Boesch covering for it by saying that the best way to recover from armwork is to USE the arm. A lot of this is Race trying to just contain Funk and his energy. The struggle's still there though with Funk constantly trying to get Race over for a pin or work his way up. When he does get up and out, Race turns it into one of the best headscissors sequences you'll ever see, working it big, including slamming the leg down. Amazing hope spots here, with Funk working his way to his feet, Rance dangling behind him, keeping the hold on. Just awesome stuff until Funk can make it to the ropes. They finish this initial matwork gamesmanship with Race (doing one of those little things I mentioned earlier) slipping behind Kozak after the rope break to sneak attack Funk. He tosses him out and that leads to a reset and the closing sequence to the first fall. Funk was amazing at creating memorable moments. I promise you every person in that building would remember Funk and Race going toe to toe with chops and headbutts and punches, them milking every blow. Everyone would remember the explosive lightning go-behind Funk did and how quickly Race kicked him off on the spinning toe-hold attempt. Funk eventually got the better of it, but ultimately missed a second shoulder tackle and went flying out, immediately selling the back like only he could. That led to a big suplex back in from the apron and a downright amazing abdominal stretch, Race reaching around to press in on the shoulder in a way I'm not sure I've ever seen. After lifting the arm a few times, Kozak called for the bell ending the fall. No one could get over toughness through selling like Funk. He gave so much but because he kept coming despite it all, it made him go past the point of weakness into true inner strength like no one else. He started the second fall defiant, coming out strong only, angering Race with a series of blows, drawing him in and catching him with another huge slam, only to run into a kneeling headbutt, selling it like a back body drop. Race followed that up with an awesome bee-lined elbow drop, showing a real economy of motion. Like I said, I've never seen him do little things as well as in this match. Race stays on the back with a deep, knee-assisted chinlock, but Funk, bolstered by the chants of the crowd, makes his way back up. They tease another stretch by Race, but Funk turns it into a backslide, both a near-fall and a transitory moment to set up a huge pile driver and the pin. I love how they used the backslide as part of how Terry earned his way back. It was better that he hit a more definitive exclamation mark to score the fall. The service released the third fall months ago and people went nuts for it. I didn't watch then on the hopes we would get the rest. I'm glad that I waited but at the same time, I'm not sure how I went so long without seeing something so incredible. It was transcendentally good, cinematic in a way that people give credit to things like Undertaker vs Michaels but with gravitas through timing and selling that those big WWE matches reach for ambitiously but never quite manage to reach. Funk comes out on fire, hitting those memorable chops again. They trade punches, huge killer punches. Funk keeps his advantage, hitting a neckbreaker and the world's biggest atomic drop and punting Race in the head repeatedly, Then he starts with the spinning toe-hold. Race grabs the hair and counters with punches above Funk's eye. Funk is unrelenting, putting it on again and again, trying to keep his head from Race. Race is desperate but unrelenting, managing to get the hair each time, managing to pepper Funk with punches repeatedly. Funk bleeds. Race's hand ends up covered in blood. Kozak tries to call off the match and Funk, staggering and bloody, stops him. Race can't make it back to his feet now, but manages to land a headbutt from his knees. Finally, Funk goes for a last toe-hold and Race punches him again. Funk's dangling due to the blood loss, using the positioning of the toehold to just stand. He tries to spin one more time but falls over and Kozak finally calls the match. It's poetic. It protects Funk. It makes Harley look strong. Most of all, it leads to a rematch where the match can't be stopped. Amazing, amazing end to an amazing match. Race brings a lot to the table, including some failings to go along with his projected toughness and credibility, but I don't think there was ever a wrestler who understood the potential of what pro wrestling could be and who had the ability to actually reach that potential like Terry Funk.

This was an absolute classic. Funk is a mad wrestling genius. He's one of the greatest sellers of all time, someone who could get across damage, both in the moment and cumulative, but also that could sell the drama of any situation. Race is as credible as any wrestler ever, a bumper and a stooger, and I don't think we've ever had a match which shows his ability to do the little things as well as this one. It was an NWA title match so there are certain things you'd expect, first and foremost the early matwork. in that regard, this goes above and beyond. It might be the best I've ever seen from this era. After some early feeling out (which was short but interesting in and of itself on the way that they build to the lock up and use rope breaks and even just the way Funk's hands shake as he's anticipating the lock up with his manic energy), Funk starts on the arm. It's the most compelling stuff you've ever seen. There's constant motion and struggle, constant jockeying, constant shifting of position. Moreover, there's constant imagination. Normally, you might see them move in and out of the hold, interspersing it with spots. That comes eventually, but at first, it's all about cutting off attempts at escape and escalating the amount of damage being done. There's two or three points where Boesch points out that Funk's doing something he hasn't seen before, and in one case, when Funk uses his leg to half-nelson Race so that he can put on some sort of crazy modified grounded octopus, there's one that I've never seen before, even forty years later. When they move out of it, Funk hits a near press slam on Race. When they go back into it, the shots of Funk grinding his foot into Race's face are downright grisly. It's all spirited as hell and it spoils you for almost every other title match you'll see. Then comes the cut. It's frustrating, not because it exists in and of itself, but because it means we miss how Race gets an advantage. When we come back, Race had just hit a trademark headbutt on Funk, to the temple (maybe that's how he took over? We've seen him use it as a transition before), and is in charge with a headlock. Race is not the world's best seller. A lot of Flair's bad habits in dropping limb selling potentially stems from his emulation of Race. I love Boesch covering for it by saying that the best way to recover from armwork is to USE the arm. A lot of this is Race trying to just contain Funk and his energy. The struggle's still there though with Funk constantly trying to get Race over for a pin or work his way up. When he does get up and out, Race turns it into one of the best headscissors sequences you'll ever see, working it big, including slamming the leg down. Amazing hope spots here, with Funk working his way to his feet, Rance dangling behind him, keeping the hold on. Just awesome stuff until Funk can make it to the ropes. They finish this initial matwork gamesmanship with Race (doing one of those little things I mentioned earlier) slipping behind Kozak after the rope break to sneak attack Funk. He tosses him out and that leads to a reset and the closing sequence to the first fall. Funk was amazing at creating memorable moments. I promise you every person in that building would remember Funk and Race going toe to toe with chops and headbutts and punches, them milking every blow. Everyone would remember the explosive lightning go-behind Funk did and how quickly Race kicked him off on the spinning toe-hold attempt. Funk eventually got the better of it, but ultimately missed a second shoulder tackle and went flying out, immediately selling the back like only he could. That led to a big suplex back in from the apron and a downright amazing abdominal stretch, Race reaching around to press in on the shoulder in a way I'm not sure I've ever seen. After lifting the arm a few times, Kozak called for the bell ending the fall. No one could get over toughness through selling like Funk. He gave so much but because he kept coming despite it all, it made him go past the point of weakness into true inner strength like no one else. He started the second fall defiant, coming out strong only, angering Race with a series of blows, drawing him in and catching him with another huge slam, only to run into a kneeling headbutt, selling it like a back body drop. Race followed that up with an awesome bee-lined elbow drop, showing a real economy of motion. Like I said, I've never seen him do little things as well as in this match. Race stays on the back with a deep, knee-assisted chinlock, but Funk, bolstered by the chants of the crowd, makes his way back up. They tease another stretch by Race, but Funk turns it into a backslide, both a near-fall and a transitory moment to set up a huge pile driver and the pin. I love how they used the backslide as part of how Terry earned his way back. It was better that he hit a more definitive exclamation mark to score the fall. The service released the third fall months ago and people went nuts for it. I didn't watch then on the hopes we would get the rest. I'm glad that I waited but at the same time, I'm not sure how I went so long without seeing something so incredible. It was transcendentally good, cinematic in a way that people give credit to things like Undertaker vs Michaels but with gravitas through timing and selling that those big WWE matches reach for ambitiously but never quite manage to reach. Funk comes out on fire, hitting those memorable chops again. They trade punches, huge killer punches. Funk keeps his advantage, hitting a neckbreaker and the world's biggest atomic drop and punting Race in the head repeatedly, Then he starts with the spinning toe-hold. Race grabs the hair and counters with punches above Funk's eye. Funk is unrelenting, putting it on again and again, trying to keep his head from Race. Race is desperate but unrelenting, managing to get the hair each time, managing to pepper Funk with punches repeatedly. Funk bleeds. Race's hand ends up covered in blood. Kozak tries to call off the match and Funk, staggering and bloody, stops him. Race can't make it back to his feet now, but manages to land a headbutt from his knees. Finally, Funk goes for a last toe-hold and Race punches him again. Funk's dangling due to the blood loss, using the positioning of the toehold to just stand. He tries to spin one more time but falls over and Kozak finally calls the match. It's poetic. It protects Funk. It makes Harley look strong. Most of all, it leads to a rematch where the match can't be stopped. Amazing, amazing end to an amazing match. Race brings a lot to the table, including some failings to go along with his projected toughness and credibility, but I don't think there was ever a wrestler who understood the potential of what pro wrestling could be and who had the ability to actually reach that potential like Terry Funk.

I've held off on watching that third fall at all so I am excited. EDIT: Man, I am so glad I did was patient. What a match.

This is where I am now. As a teenager (I was ~17 when this happened), I was kind of frustrated that I couldn't talk my dad into taking to me all the way to Worcester for that Raw taping. I've been to 3 or 4 PPVs and a share of other shows in my life but I've never actually seen a title change live and that would be a big one. It probably would have been the most special moment I'd seen live in wrestling, even now, but between Foley's stock as a general human being dropping somewhat in my eyes over the years and listening to this show, I think I've finally exorcised that from my past. There is just so much reprehensible Russo crap on this show and the idea of sitting through it with my dad and trying to rationalize and explain it all to him is mortifying in retrospect. No, I'm ok I didn't go to that Raw. I'm good. Thanks.

He's also the best choice for Rude.

Harris Brothers. The answer is the Harris Brothers. It's literally the only answer.

I do really enjoy the format of this. Two matches. Deep dives. Personal connections or at least personal reactions. A ton of enthusiasm. It's very, very PWO-y. It's as down our alley as any podcast out there and everyone should listen to it. I need to revisit the Trish match at some point. It was always thoroughly strange in an era before Punk or Bryan (even if we had Spanky and London) for someone like James, who had been as indy as could be to be in the spotlight like that. I guess it's a lot weirder she ended up a country singer. What a crazy story when you think about it. It really should be a TV movie. I am a big proponent of clever utilization of time, of utility relative to opportunity. In that regard, I can appreciate them trying to get as much as possible out of every moment of this. In some ways, it sounds more cinematic than what we've gotten over the last few years too. Maybe that's because the Charlotte matches tend to bleed together for me. I loved Elliott's talking point about the French match. We have so little that we just don't know. That's something that always comes into play when it comes to my hesitation to rush to ranking new things. We have other French Catch matches, but it's frustrating that nothing's popped up in the last year or two. I wonder if anyone's done any real research in Spanish TV wrestling in the 60s. Was it just these guys ending up in France or Germany or was there an actual scene there? Anyway, great showing and I'm looking forward to the next one.

Re: the JYD/Tommy Rich HOF candidacies: I'm fascinated why the May 14, 1982 Houston show apparently drew so poorly that Boesch was thinking of going out of business. On top was JYD vs Bock for the AWA title and a big angle cage match between Tommy Rich and Gino Hernandez where Boesch would kiss Gino's foot if Rich won (and presumably the stip would be reversed otherwise). This stemmed from Gino interfering in Rich's AWA title shot back in March. Having seen some (but not all) of the build and just hot a heel Gino and Tully seemed at the time, as well as the fact that Rich wasn't just a national star but was decently positioned as his "aw, shucks" genuine self in Houston/Southwest, I don't get why it didn't work. Apparently it really didn't though. I don't know if it was just that Rich didn't transfer or what. Boesch @ Houston, TX – Sam Houston Coliseum – May 14, 1982 Hacksaw Duggan d. Ricky Morton Scott Casey d. Killer Brooks Superstar Billy Graham d. Jimmy Golden Bob Sweetan d. Ken Lucas Scott Casey, Jimmy Golden, Ken Lucas, & Ricky Morton d. Hacksaw Duggan, Superstar Billy Graham, Killer Brooks, & Bob Sweetan Manny Fernandez battled Mil Mascaras to a DDQ Wahoo McDaniel d. Tully Blanchard Gino Hernandez d. Tommy Rich AWA World Heavyewight Title: Junkyard Dog d. Nick Bockwinkel © by DQ

That made my day.

It's just a few days before Slater would win the belt in Tulsa.

And the finish is functional but still frustrating.

I am not entirely sure what's new on that list. I do not think I have seen Watts vs Funk but I might have just missed it.

1.) I'll believe it when I see it. 2.) I'm not going to go out of my way to watch it if it actually does happen, so I never have to see nor believe it anyway.

Absolutely. If you watch MMA, you can get those sounds with certain strikes so it can be believable when done right. When Marufuji and Omega do it with knees, it doesn't bother me personally cause I think they do it pretty well and you can in a way justifiy it that sound cause of the material of their gear. But I hate it when I see people do it for headbutt spots. Nixon Newell and Kay Lee Ray were doing on the latest Stardom tour and it looked really silly especially when they were tagging with former UFC fighter Shayna Baszler. They're not the only ones that do it cause a lot of male indie wrestlers do it too and it makes my eyes roll. Anybody who has seen a real headbutt or clonked heads with someone know that the sound is a thud instead of a smacking of exposed flesh. I saw the Anthony Henry/Lio Rush match from SCI and I noticed that Henry would have his hands low and clapped when Rush was throwing some strikes at him and I thought that was awful too. It seems like a US/UK wrestler epidemic (that might be too strong of a word) for the most part. I don't even care about the realism of it, so much as the symbolic consistency. But you've got to hide the strings like anything else.

When I first explained PWO to my wife and how it wasn't just a bunch of stereotypical wrestling fans, I laid out the Titans and their podcast as my primary example. Hell of a run, guys. You delved into the darkness of a pro wrestling unknown and gave us light.

I like them when they're well done. It's misdirection, like stage magic. Look at this. Ignore that. That's literally what pro wrestling is all about. When it'd done poorly, it's like a bad card trick. No one wants that.

Seriously. Let's wait until they start pushing Rusev as top babyface.

Like a Steve Blackman?

Duggan vs Sawyer (glove on a pole) was a big surprise, even though we had gotten most of the card already. The two of them are really perfect opponents for one another stylistically. Duggan's biggest skill as a babyface in this era was the ability to create a moment of anticipation before he struck. In a heel it might have been overly methodological and tedious, but as a babyface with the crowd behind him, it created a second pause where his hands went up and electricity started to spark before he came down upon his foe. It's not something that transferred well into the WWF, maybe because he was so rarely put into matches with stakes and heat like this. Sawyer bumped in kind, all but leaping backwards and landing squarely for Duggan. Structurally, this was a lot of fun. Pole matches have natural transition points based around the climbing of the pole. This wasn't much different, but they were creative about it. Duggan controlled early on, with Sawyer pinballing and leaving the ring repeatedly until he could finally get Duggan out after him and work over his back with a chair. Duggan sold the back at times, ignoring it at other times. It felt, more than anything, like an equalizer for Sawyer as opposed to a necessary vulnerability for Duggan. While I think he could have done just a bit more selling, in general what he did do was fine both for the narrative of the match and for his relationship with the crowd. This crowd accepted that Duggan would be slowed down by the targeting, but in the midst of a big grudge match like this, it didn't want to see him stopped by it. I liked how some of Duggan's hope spots were based around him trying to get the glove, especially when he bounded in from off camera and outside the ring to try to get it, only to be crotched on the pole. The finish was bs-laden, but also definitive, with Duggan perfectly suited and entirely capable of milking the moment. The post match beating with the chain was nasty (both symbolically and visually) and set up the matches to come. I do think that Sawyer recovering so quickly was unfortunate and lessened the importance and aura of the glove. And yes, I'm probably a horrible person for saying it, even about a 30 year old match, but this could have used a bit of color (Sorry). In general though, I thought it was great for what it was. EDIT: I was talking to Pete and there's a bit of an expectation gap to the match. To me, it ended up feeling more like a high end WWF Federation era gimmick match than what you'd normally expect out of Houston/Mid-South. It was more cinematic than visceral, in that regard. It did work for me (and the crowd as well, I think. Some great shots of people, especially females, being into it in the background).

On some level it's vaguely disingenuous that I keep going to the atypical Japan matches. On the other, I know what I like and what I don't. I liked this. I hadn't seen much post 98-Vader. I'm not sure I've seen any post-98 Kawada. What stood out to me the most here was how thoroughly and deeply the match gets over Vader as a threat. From what I DO know of Kawada, pre-or-post this match, the fact that he'd all but Memphis stall to start things off was crazy. He avoids the lock up so many times that Vader screams at the ref in frustration. When Kawada starts the kicks, Vader's enraged enough that he keeps missing his punches, all culminating in the back drop driver, the cross-arm breaker attempt, and ultimately an early advantage for Kawada that the fans go nuts for. Kawada's dangerous enough in general but when he comes in with a strategy, even a monster has to tremble. The fact that he feels like he has to come in with a strategy like this just gets over Vader as all the more dangerous. They keep up that sense of struggle through the attempt at the arm-breaker, with Vader having to get to the ropes, and then with the big blows that stagger Vader in the corner. The fact that Vader has to resort to comeback with an eyepoke (and this is already after he had to make it to the ropes) in turn, gets over the damage Kawada was doing to him. The fact that it doesn't even get him the advantage just has me hyped for the first real blow that Vader does land. Kawada had almost lost the advantage when he stopped attacking and went for the kill on the cross arm breaker (thus allowing distance and that eyepoke). He ultimately loses it when he goes for too early a pin which lets Vader toss him off and roll out. Yes, Kawada keeps up on the advantage on the outside, but he tries for too much momentum and runs into a huge, impactful feeling (both in execution and in meaning) Vader Attack. That's a transition point and leads to Vader just mauling him in the seats. Kawada's extremely giving here, basically pinballing for every touch from Vader. This ends up back in the ring with a Vader Bomb (splash) off the second rope. Well and good, but maybe too early, because he spends a chunk of the rest of the match trying to hit it again. I probably would have liked to see that reversed, with him missing it early (but maybe staying on offense) and then hitting it later for a more meaningful near-fall? I guess at this point in AJPW, multiple finishers was the expectation. It felt a little premature though, especially because he never landed it again and because it was the root of Kawada's hope spot and comeback. It felt a little off to me. In general, I thought Vader's little control section here was a little lackluster, but some of that was how they had established that Vader was extremely dangerous. Maybe if he had hit some more devastating stuff, that would have unbalanced the match since everything he did was presented as a killshot? Maybe you can't just sit on a guy for a while in AJPW in 2000 even if it would have helped the pacing of the match? Kawada did come back with a series of kicks and a stretch plum. So much struggle here. I'm not even sure Vader had to do much work. He's so massive that Kawada was straining just to wrap the hold around him. This leads to another cross-arm breaker attempt and Kawada unleashing more shots, including a ton of low kicks. That five to one ratio is in effect though as one clothesline drops him, allowing both wrestlers to sell the damage of the match (which made it feel longer and bigger than it actually was at this point.). They segue into the finish at this point, with Vader hitting a power bomb (and there'd been relatively few big moves like that in the match up until now) and then an awesome almost-bridging back suplex. He can't land the choke slam though, and they're putting so much resistance into this that it feels like a war. Eventually, the ratio catches up to Kawada and the inevitable happens: despite a flurry of kicks, Vader hits just one more clothesline and gets the pin. This is the most nuanced I've seen Vader in his career, I think. Kawada was extremely giving in presenting him as a threat, but the way that Vader sold in the corner or embraced the threat of the cross-arm breaker, or sold his late match exhaustion... that's a Vader I'm not sure I'm used to, and they hit the balance between him being a monster and him being vulnerable so very well. That was a team effort. If either guy was less giving or came up short in the delivery, I don't think it would work as well as it did. I do think that the Vader control sequence in the middle should have been a little flipped, with the hope spots coming on earlier Vader Bomb (being the corner splash) attempts and with him just grounding Kawada to fill time better. In general though, there was a lot to like here. What a great way to get 45 year old Vader over as a monster while still making him realistically and dramatically vulnerable.

What do you think about it relative to last year?

Two undercard matches that definitely did their job. I loved all of Boyd's little tricks. Thorton was able to keep his air of technical dominance despite them. I'd have loved to see a rounds match between them. I'm with Pete on the Hito match. The opening was heated. JJ's awesome as the clumsily over-bowing manager, sideburns and all. Kozak really knew his stuff. A Nick Kozak/Tommy Gilbert/Dutch Savage trio would be something special.