Loss Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Talk about it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 Stevie Richards comparing himself favorably to the American Males is funny stuff. Raven attacking Stevie Richards when Beulah tells him she's pregnant is a great instant reaction. Fun angle, but wow is Raven bad. His punch selling is terrible and he's calling spots on camera, which says something considering that ECW does not have great production values which would make it difficult to hide that. Is this the first pregnancy angle in wrestling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted December 19, 2010 Report Share Posted December 19, 2010 Raven really was a terrible fucking performer on just about every level. In a promotion known for brawling and workrate style matches he wasn't good at either and his matches were always riddled with overbooking and needless bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFabianoRPL Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Stevie Richards comparing himself favorably to the American Males is funny stuff. Raven attacking Stevie Richards when Beulah tells him she's pregnant is a great instant reaction. Fun angle, but wow is Raven bad. His punch selling is terrible and he's calling spots on camera, which says something considering that ECW does not have great production values which would make it difficult to hide that. Is this the first pregnancy angle in wrestling? Would Baby Doll not being able to have children because of Jim Cornette's tennis racket count? I know this angle is praised for being edgy for its time, but if you were following it in real time, it was kind of weird because it was just a week after the Holiday Hell show in NY...where Tommy yet again piledrove Beulah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I have never understood the appeal of Raven. I guess his gimmick was pretty different, but give me a Johnny B Badd - a guy who can wrestle and who makes me smile. Raven is a character that shows you all he has to show in about 30 seconds. On the other side, I am inordinately fond of Beulah. She was not the hottest. She was never the best actress. But she was into her job, and it takes about 30 seconds to fall in love for life. Tommy's run in us well done, especially the bit with the stopsign and pie. But Jesus, did that guy ever know any move besides piledriver or DDT? Talk about a guy who built a career by sheer force of will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 As a fan of Raven at the time, I didn't like them breaking up the Raven/Beulah act. And if they had to do it, couldn't they have done it in a way that didn't shit on the past nine months of storylines? Like Raven leaves Beulah to get superbombed by the Pitbulls and when she comes back she aligns herself with Dreamer to get revenge on Raven? Instead, he beats her up in every match for months and then one week, they're a couple. Dreamer isn't really even the kind of character that should have a hot valet. What bullshit. For the sheer impact of the pregnancy revelation and the great crowd reaction, I suppose I can't call this a bad angle, but man, if Vince Russo had booked this it would have its own Wrestlecrap entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 When I rewatch shitloads of ECW last year, Raven was clearly one of my favourite act of the company. Funny how he gets so much hate here. I love his promos, I love most of his matches, I think he's super efficient. Yeah, it's messy and unathletic, but he'd be the first one to tell you that. I agree the Beulah turn made no sense though. Tommy beats her up senseless and all of a sudden she's pregnant from Tommy ? Not to mention that later it was revealed that she wasn't pregnant, lied to Tommy and was having an affair with Kimona, who was Raven's valet. Which didn't matter in the end because Tommy would take both. Russo sure fell in love with that stuff. But yeah, it did made for some fun moments. Anyway, Raven and Richards had an awesome dynamic together, it was great stuff all along. And yeah, Beulah was hot as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I like the fact that Tommy got her in the end in real life. I'll second the lack of love for Raven in ECW. A couple good moments, a couple good matches, but most of it has little redeeming quality. It's funny to watch him talk about how to work a match in hid ROH shoot series, with lots of great points that have absolutely nothing to do with what HE ever did in a match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I like the fact that Tommy got her in the end in real life. I'll second the lack of love for Raven in ECW. A couple good moments, a couple good matches, but most of it has little redeeming quality. It's funny to watch him talk about how to work a match in hid ROH shoot series, with lots of great points that have absolutely nothing to do with what HE ever did in a match. I was just thinking that last night when I watched this segment. He's considered this great expert. I am wondering if it's just something that happened because ROH decided to keep giving him shoots? Or is it a case - kind of like Al Snow - of a guy who understands the concept but really just lacked the charisma or athletic ability to be a superstar? He knew how to get people to like him, that's for sure. It's just that his gimmick doesn't date well. I agree that it's good on Tom for getting Beulah. Makes me smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I agree that it's good on Tom for getting Beulah. Makes me smile. Well, the fat guy gets the hottie, it's neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Briscoe_Is_My_Hero Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Raven was the essence of cool for me in middle school. As much as I knew about 94/95 ECW (through my Inside Wrestling subscription) I never got to see any ECW until 1997's barely legal. Raven had the look of everything I thought was cool. Once I finally saw some of his work he sounded cool. I give ECW a pass workrate-wise as it never can hold a candle to NJPW, AJPW, WWF or even WCW. It isn't polished but the whole company is likable. It is still unique even if it has been a bit overexposed via WWE. ECW isn't meant to be pretty. It is mean, nasty gitty and grimy, much like the fans that supported it at the time. Tommy's attack was filled with emotion and the stop sign is a classic moment in itself too. Was this sign a plant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Never got to see ECW Raven as it was happening but once he jumped to WCW he was my favorite wrestler in the world by far during like my freshman year of High School. Huge fan of his ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 When I rewatch shitloads of ECW last year, Raven was clearly one of my favourite act of the company. Funny how he gets so much hate here. I love his promos, I love most of his matches, I think he's super efficient. Yeah, it's messy and unathletic, but he'd be the first one to tell you that. I agree the Beulah turn made no sense though. Tommy beats her up senseless and all of a sudden she's pregnant from Tommy ? Not to mention that later it was revealed that she wasn't pregnant, lied to Tommy and was having an affair with Kimona, who was Raven's valet. Which didn't matter in the end because Tommy would take both. Russo sure fell in love with that stuff. But yeah, it did made for some fun moments. Anyway, Raven and Richards had an awesome dynamic together, it was great stuff all along. And yeah, Beulah was hot as hell. The points are: * Would Raven be capable of getting heat if he wasn't always surrounded by people who are capable of getting heat? In most of his key angles, he sits around while people like Stevie Richards, Dreamer, Sandman and even Tyler Fullington do all the work. * Can Raven wrestle a match that involves the audience without any outside interference or props? I like Pillman/Flamingo from Beach Blast '92, and I thought the Johnny Polo gimmick was really fun. A more basic Raven was probably not capable of becoming a star, though. Then again, a more propped up Raven had limited results too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Briscoe_Is_My_Hero Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I see what Loss is saying, and I think I might agree. While I really like Raven's look, he is more of a "storyline wrestler" than a cut and dry pro wrestling. When I say storyline wrestlers I am saying that his matches are all about putting over whatever angle he is in moreso than most of pro wrestling. His angles aren't building to a match as his matches are adding to the angles. I find the far reaching angles drawn together in one complex segment fun, and different. Also it made great use of the TV time they had. But no, Raven probably wouldn't be much without his surrounding cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Come on. Stevie worked great with Raven because he was the comedic relief to Raven's stoic, dark character. They had a great dynamic *together*. Dreamer got heat because of Raven, not the other way around. Yeah, Dreamer was somewhat over after the feud with Sandman, but it was Dreamer vs Raven that made him (and really, it worked for both, but to me Dreamer was still bland as hell on his own). To me that's the thing with Raven, he makes people he's working with more interesting. Of course Raven is getting heat by himself, having an entourage was part of his act. He was getting booed the hell out of the buildings in WCW, and that wasn't because of Sick Boy, Hammer and Lodi. But Saturn and Kidman beneficiated from his own heat to get noticed by the fans. As far as booking matches with tons of shit, that was the whole point of the character, he was a guy who just wouldn't lose because he had minions willing to save him and get their asses kick for him. And to me it worked so well, Raven dog and poney show (like himself refers to it) got some of the most fun matches in ECW. I had a lot more fun watching these than the overrated Eddie vs Dean series, which was great mechanically but devoid of anything past the pure mechanics. I'm a big Raven fan, and it hasn't changed by rewatching stuff, on the contrary, I thought it hold up extremely well. Chaos, major asskicking and great near-falls never get old to me. The fact he never became a star is the result of bookers being incompetent to get the fact he was over (in WCW) and Vince never liking him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbaugh Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 For angsty mid-90s teen drama, this is solid stuff. If I knew that ECW existed and was into wrestling at this point in time, 16 year old me would have loved this shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted June 29, 2013 Report Share Posted June 29, 2013 Studley Stevie Richards is the original American Male. Beulah doesn’t want to be touch by Stevie. She’s pregnant! Every guy’s worst dream. Raven schools Beulah on the morning after pill. Raven then beats up Richards. But it’s Tommy’s! Here’s Dreamer to beat up everyone. Total ECW stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Beulah is pregnant and its Tommy's. I couldn't get much into this and Tommy essentially garbage beats Raven. I will try to remain positive on ECW in 1996 but yeah, usually not my thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I liked Raven's act all throughout '95. *shrug* Richards is terrific here and Beulah's reveal sparked a big "wow" (incidentally that cretin in the front row miming for Raven to beat Beulah's face in is a guy that I sincerely hope dies in a car fire). The angle really doesn't make any sense, something ECW's devoted fanbase wouldn't have dared to admit, then or now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 Over 25 years later, this is totally ridiculous soap opera nonsense but everyone playing it so straight and acting like life-changing events were enveloping around them is what makes it hold up to a decent degree. And yeah, fuck that guy Pete mentioned. I hope a stray chair hit him when they were flying around that arena at any point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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