Cox Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Why did they nixed the gimmick completely cold turkey, I wonder. I think Mike Rotunda was getting heat from Syracuse University for being so identified with the school as a heel so they wanted that nixed. Between that, Rick Steiner turning babyface, and Steve Williams spending more time in Japan, the gimmick pretty well killed itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Why did they nixed the gimmick completely cold turkey, I wonder. I think Mike Rotunda was getting heat from Syracuse University for being so identified with the school as a heel so they wanted that nixed. Between that, Rick Steiner turning babyface, and Steve Williams spending more time in Japan, the gimmick pretty well killed itself. Don't think so, Rotunda was still wrestling with the Syracuse colors after the gimmick was killed and he was still a heel. They put Spivey into the mix, they were really hot feuding with both the RW and Steiner, and from nowhere the team just disbands, Williams turning face as he comes back from Japan. In Rotundo's shoot interview he basically said it was nixed from nowhere. The oddest thing is that the Steiners vs Sullivan/Rotunda feud is basically the continuation of Rick vs Varsity, yet they aren't called the Varsity anymore. I do agree Spivey didn't really fit, and was much better as a Skyscrapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 The second half of the GAB 89 was an amazing card. Sting vs Muto was an impressive spotfu for the time; Luger vs Steamboat was just excellent, with Steamboat bringing the hate, no armdrag, only stiff chops, and Luger brought quite a bit to the table too, essentially working his ass off, intense match with a finish that made sense, Steamboat finally losing it and getting DQed in a match that was originally supposed to be no DQ. The Wargames match was good too, with Eaton, Gordy, Samu and the RW being the standouts. I was never a big fan of the finishing sequences of the Wargames matches, always thoughts they lacked drama and were a bit anticlimatic because of the rule, and this is no exception, but all in all it's still a really good huge brawl. And of course Funk vs Flair, just terrific, with Flair not working a Flair match at all, and being great in the fiery agressive babyface role. Too bad he reverted to standart heel Flair at the end of the year, this could have been a good evolution for him at a point people wanted to cheer for him more than anything else. Funk is just as great as ever. The production was quite good too actually, with more lightshows, pyros and cool music than in a WWF big show from the same time. Funk coming out to "Once upon a time in the West" is just a stroke of genius. On a side note, what a gigantic waste of Dan Spivey the Skyscrappers were. Sid really could do jackshit at this point, and really killed the life out of every match he's involved in with terrible restholds, and couldn't even do the powerbomb in an impressive way. Spivey was a workhorse, he's really an underrated worker. Hum... seems like Rotunda is gonna feud with Williams now, so I guess they are doing the Varsity Split angle after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Where is the evidence that Dan Spivey was a good worker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 How can you say that about the Skyscrapers after watching Bash 89? The fans were booing Sid for tagging out, chanting for him and going crazy every time he did something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Where is the evidence that Dan Spivey was a good worker?All Japan. All from Ditch's site: Hansen & Spivey vs. Kobashi & Tsuruta 4/90 Hansen & Spivey vs. Tsuruta & Taue RWTL 11/90 Hansen & Spivey vs. Misawa & Kobashi 3/91 Hansen & Spivey vs. Tsuruta & Taue 6/91 Hansen & Spivey vs. Misawa & Kawada RWTL 11/91 Hansen & Spivey vs. Tsuruta & Taue RWTL 12/91 Spivey vs. Kobashi 2/93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Dylan, what do you think of the Luger match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Luger v. Spivey? No recollection. That is actually telling given how high I am on Luger relative to others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Why did they nixed the gimmick completely cold turkey, I wonder. I think Mike Rotunda was getting heat from Syracuse University for being so identified with the school as a heel so they wanted that nixed. Between that, Rick Steiner turning babyface, and Steve Williams spending more time in Japan, the gimmick pretty well killed itself. Don't think so, Rotunda was still wrestling with the Syracuse colors after the gimmick was killed and he was still a heel. They put Spivey into the mix, they were really hot feuding with both the RW and Steiner, and from nowhere the team just disbands, Williams turning face as he comes back from Japan. In Rotundo's shoot interview he basically said it was nixed from nowhere. The oddest thing is that the Steiners vs Sullivan/Rotunda feud is basically the continuation of Rick vs Varsity, yet they aren't called the Varsity anymore. I do agree Spivey didn't really fit, and was much better as a Skyscrapper. You think it was the current booking team wanting to get rid of one thing from the Dusty era they could easily dismantle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 How can you say that about the Skyscrapers after watching Bash 89? The fans were booing Sid for tagging out, chanting for him and going crazy every time he did something. I know, I mentionned the fan went crazy for him. But he still was doing jackshit in the ring and killed whatever flow the match had in term of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 You think it was the current booking team wanting to get rid of one thing from the Dusty era they could easily dismantle? That sounds like WCW indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Two other AJPW matches: the 6/89 Spivey-Sting and 8/92 Spivey-Kawada were also watchable. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I remember about that Sting match. Spivey totally carried him, as Sting in 89 was pretty much a few athletic spots and that's it. By 1992, Spivey had barely any knees left I believe. That's why his comeback as Waylon Mercy was cut short in 95. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Three excellent matches from AJ : 04/19/1990 : Gordy & Williams vs Hansen & Spivey (one of the very best tag matches of the year, the rematch during the Tag League at the end of the year doesn't even scratch that one) 07/12/1990 : Gordy & Williams & Ace vs Hansen & Spivey & Deaton (Ace sucks, but Deaton makes up for it, and is crazy over with the Korakuen crowd) 04/18/1991 : Gordy & Williams vs Hansen & Spivey (not as good as the 1990 one, but still top notch gaijin vs gaijin match; sadly most of the Hansen/Spivey title defense will end up quite disappointing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBscout Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Was searching out some Vader tags and had no idea until yesterday that Vader worked Flair at a COTC a month or so before Starrcade 93. Always thought that SC93 was built up to be their first encounter and added to its luster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 _Why did Ricky Steamboat vanished after his excellent match with Luger ? One day he's in this hot feud, the next day Luger is having a match with Tommy Rich at the Clash 8. Another good match BTW, although Rich is a far cry from Steamboat, but Luger was solid again. _Flair & Sting vs J-Tex is easily the best feud of the year. Every thing they do is red hot. Muta & Dick Slater vs Flair & Sting was much better than I remembered, just a big brawl with the infamous plastic bag angle at the end. Terry Funk is my MVP of the year thus far. _Two good, short, all action match from Clash 8 : Brian Pillman vs Norman the Lunatic, I wonder if these two worked together in Stampede, but they clicked here. I don't care about Norman's gimmick, but with the right guy he can have a good little match. Mike Rotunda vs Steve Williams was another good one, despite the shitty finish, I just hate when he referee kicks the heel's hand of of the ropes. Rotunda was definitely good in 89 and Williams more at ease here than I remembered him to be in Japan at the same time. _Z-Man is coming. Blah. Zenk's big debut was such an afterthough, in plain white trunks, looking like a 3rd rate Rick Martel and wrestling like one. Not that there was anything wrong with him, but he didn't look anything special at all. And not nearly as good as guys like Pillman or Brad Armstrong. _ The Steiner / Robin angle developping is really good, as they shot the "incident" of Scott tripping on the ropes in a way it's impossible to know who did it. And yeah, Missy was just an afterthought during that time, she really isn't fit to be a face manager, it's a waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Been watching a lot of WCW from 1990 lately and there's a couple of things I didn't remember at all. Like they brought in Muta but had him wrestle under a mask and called him "The Pearl". It was only a squash match on the Saturday show but why the hell would they do that? The other funny thing was Luger had this tag match against the Motor City Madman and Big Cat where he was going to bring out a mystery partner. So out comes Vader and they ended up cleaning house with Vader acting like a total babyface complete with posing and fist pumping, and high fiving Luger. God, they debuted a lot of new guys in 1990 but all of them pretty much sucked (Nightstalker, Allen Ironeagle, JW Storm, Motor City Madman, Big Cat, Master Blasters, etc.). Also, the strength of 1990 WCW were the tag teams because the singles scene was pretty poor. They really sandbagged Sting with their horrible booking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 The Pearl was Ranger Ross as a theoretical replacement Muta. He lasted one match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I see. I had a match list listing The Pearl as Muta and I guess since he did the moonsault I just assumed it to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Hum.. that jobber Lou Tafaloni looks an awful like Louie Spicolli. He must have been 17 years old back then, he looks like a kid. The build to Starrcade was a bit counterproductive because it made it obvious before Clash 9 that Flair would beat Funk and Luger would beat Pillman. The iron man tournament was just not a very good idea for the major PPV of the year, and I guess it's the debut of Starrcade being ampered by being a gimmick show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Steiner Brothers vs Fabulous Freebirds- WCW 11.18.1989 Notable match because it's the first time the Steiner Brothers win the tag team title. A few things : _the post match celebration with the Dudes, Tom Zenk and Brian Pilman in street clothes circa 1989 looks geeky as hell. _the match itself is pretty bad, and although the Feebirds have been involved in pretty good matches with the Dudes and the MX, this was a borefest with long control segment form Hayes and Garvin consisting of poor punches and kicks and restholds. You don't buy for a second the Steiners can be hurt by these two guys. It's like the Birds just didn't want to work hard because they were doing the job, really, and it makes for a very underwhelming event. _what an awful production WCW already was : there was NO BELTS around. What the fuck ? The team you build for 6 months finally wins the title, it's supposed to be a big deal, the Steiners will obviously be big stars of the company in the years to come, and there are no belts to be given to them. Just retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I've never really thought about this before, but why didn't they run the Flair/Funk "I quit" match as the Starrcade '89 mainevent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I've never really thought about this before, but why didn't they run the Flair/Funk "I quit" match as the Starrcade '89 mainevent? Good question. Watching in context, it feels a bit rushed, like they wanted to end the feud and go onto things. They could have done Flair vs Muta and Sting vs Funk at Clash, leading to the final Flair vs Funk I Quit match and Sting finally beating Muta clean at Starrcade for the TV title. Promoting Starrcade during the Clash made it obvious Funk wasn't gonna be around much. They went into Flair vs Luget vs Sting, with Muta being jobbed out on his way out. Was there a change of booking commitee at this time ? Was Ole replacing Flair ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 The committee was still in place at that time. IIRC, Flair quit the committee just before Wrestle War '90 in late February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 _Why did Ricky Steamboat vanished after his excellent match with Luger ? One day he's in this hot feud, the next day Luger is having a match with Tommy Rich at the Clash 8. Another good match BTW, although Rich is a far cry from Steamboat, but Luger was solid again. Herd made Offer X to Steamboat for a long term deal, then sent him Contract Y which was different. I'd have to pull out the WON to remember if it was less money, fewer years, more dates worked, or what. But overall, it was a crappier deal for Steamer. Kind of a matter of principal for him to not take it, even if he didn't have a good alternative at the time. I don't recall the details of where Steamer would have fit into the pay scale in the new contract, and don't know if Herd was thinking along these lines, but one could make the argument: * Steamer was done with his Flair program, and never going back up there again * when Steamer was done with his Lex program, he would move down another slot * if Sting wasn't booked with Flair or Lex, that moves Steamer down another slot So there is a question of how much you pay your #3 or #4 singles wrestler on a One Card Promotion (i.e. they run one crew rather than the 3 that the WWF did at the time). That's before getting into having top face tag teams such as the Road Warriors and Steiners at the time. Not saying that Steamer would be a mid card face after the Lex series, but if Flair and Lex are your top heels for the near future, and Steamer is done with them... it does bring into question whether you can pay Steamer "top face money". Again, I don't recall the $$$ being tossed around, and don't know if Herd was thinking on that level. But there is an argument that could be made to look at paying Steamer a reasonable "looking forward" amount as opposed to what his slotting had been from Feb-Jul 1989. Kind of sucks since I like Steamer, he has value even in the middle of cards, and Herd was an asshole. But... I think the best thing that could be said was that Herd handled it poorly, and it did screw us out of what would have been a nice series with Lex. * * * * * Sidebar point: You wonder if they knew when Hayes won the title from Lex that Lex would be programed with Steamer after Rick dropped the NWA Title back to Flair? It really didn't make a lot of sense to have Lex do a quicky turn around with Hayes only to see Hayes go back to tags, and also take away they vibe that Ricky might lift the title from Lex. The US Title just didn't bounce around that much in those days. Was Lex a turn they just thought up later in May / early June leading into the Clash? Haven't read that period of the WON in a long time, so my brain is fuzzy on the decision to turn Lex. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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