CM Punk: Greatest Promo Ever

[Loss]

Raw did a 3.2 rating. Expect Dave hysterics about how this is bombing soon.

 

It does make me wonder something.

 

According to TVByTheNumbers.com, there was an increase in the 18-49 demo from last week. 0.2, so a small increase, but an increase. Which means they lost fans somewhere.

 

Is it possible they're turning off the kids that tune in for Cena? Just a thought.

[smkelly]

Vince and co shouldn't be surprised though. They made the same mistake with Hogan. Just like they did with Rock & Austin. And now they're doing it with Cena.

 

EDIT: The numbers I'm most anxious to know are the PPV related numbers.

[Ditch]

After the opening angle it was obvious that nothing Punk/Cena related would happen until the end. I'm really interested to see if there was a solid/strong opening followed by a prolonged dip followed by a significant uptick at the end.

[goc]

I wish people would start posting number of viewers instead of ratings points because a lot of people don't seem to understand that a 3.2 in 2011 is not the same as a 3.2 in 1998. A 3.2 ratings equals about 4.83 million viewers, which is a whole lot of people watching the show. It's also .3 higher than last week.

[MikeCampbell]

I'm probably reading too much into it, but I just thought of something.

 

Does anyone remember that promo between Eugene and Rock from Summer 2004 when Eugene said HHH was his favorite wrestler and suddenly he's part of Evolution and working a program with HHH?

 

I'm wondering if Punk's "doofus son in law" comment is going to bite him in the ass in that regard, leading to HHH burying Punk if/when he comes back.

[MJH]

I don't see any correlation between them whatsoever; and no.

[smkelly]

After the opening angle it was obvious that nothing Punk/Cena related would happen until the end. I'm really interested to see if there was a solid/strong opening followed by a prolonged dip followed by a significant uptick at the end.

The way I looked it as was that Punk/Cena was just the beginning of the angle. Because when Vince gets involved, more are bound to appear.

 

I wish people would start posting number of viewers instead of ratings points because a lot of people don't seem to understand that a 3.2 in 2011 is not the same as a 3.2 in 1998. A 3.2 ratings equals about 4.83 million viewers, which is a whole lot of people watching the show. It's also .3 higher than last week.

Exactly. The availability of more channels, the Internet, and overall increases of entertainment technology, a 3.2 in 2011 on Monday nights from 9PM-11PM is not bad.

 

I'm probably reading too much into it, but I just thought of something.

 

Does anyone remember that promo between Eugene and Rock from Summer 2004 when Eugene said HHH was his favorite wrestler and suddenly he's part of Evolution and working a program with HHH?

 

I'm wondering if Punk's "doofus son in law" comment is going to bite him in the ass in that regard, leading to HHH burying Punk if/when he comes back.

Unlike MJH, I see some light at the end of the tunnel on that theory, Mike. Hunter is a master of the game - when the game is the business and the business is professional wrestling. There is absolutely no way that back in his Terra Ryzing days that anyone ever imagined him becoming one of the most popular, yet despised, wrestlers of all-time.

 

And who did Terra latch unto when he arrived in the WWF? The best wrestling politicians in the WWF; one of which helped deliver crippling blows that lead to death of WCW; and the other routinely made Vince McMahon dance to his beat.

 

Then Hunter, once his buddies had either left or retired from 'injuries', got punished a bit for being a dumbass, but then catapults himself into the hot seat by literally banging the hotseat.

 

Then it became the Triple H variety hour. And then it became the "Friends of Triple H Variety Hour". And anytime anything was ever remotely interesting, Triple H got involved somehow and in some great significance to boot. Such as becoming The Rock’s #1 heel adversary. On the other hand, becoming “Stone Cold” Steve Austin’s #1 heel adversary too. And years later, he was doing it to the new generations big guns with John Cena and Randy Orton.

 

Triple H learned from Kevin Nash how to find, always, your way into anything that will make you more money. Like how Nash held WCW up for more money on more than one occasion. How he rode on the coattails of guys like Hogan, Flair, Savage, Piper, and in late ’97 and early ’98 Sting, and then again in late ’98 with Goldberg. I also think that’s where Hunter gets his superiority complex from too. It took several wrestlers to make Goldberg the wrestler he was up to Starrcade 1998. It took Nash eleven minutes and twenty seconds to undo, and erase, everything all of the contributing boys in the back and WCW management had done to make a superstar of that caliber in under a years’ time.

 

Hunter did the same thing in the WWF once his ass was firmly situated on the throne. The Rock brings Booker T up to speed in the WWF and takes him from a flimsy Vince Russo main eventer and transformed him into a WWF superstar. H’s changed that. Then he did it to Jericho, which is after both The Rock and Austin brought him to speed. Hunter had done it several times with The Rock, though. Like with Mick Foley. I would wager that H’s got one over on Austin and the Undertaker there too.

 

Point blank, if there is something that will benefit him, or he wants to be a part of – then it’s going to happen. I mean, who is charge of the Raw writers again? And Triple H’s promotion in 2010. Who screams into Michael Cole’s headset?

 

And the thing that pisses me off is that Hunter, though talented in his own right, is still nothing more than a coaches favorite. He gets privileges because of connections. He doesn’t have to earn what he has been given unlike some guys like Eddy, Jericho, Benoit, Finlay, Punk, Misterio, and others had to routinely get their careers side-tracked by poor creative performances, while Hunter is in on the creative aspect. Favoritism fucking sucks in the work place; it sucks period when you’re not the favorite one though you ought to be.

 

And that’s all I have to say on that subject.

[MikeCampbell]

I was just thinking about it in the vein of HHH seemingly latching himself onto something that's popular with the fans, more or less because of a throwaway comment. Eugene saying HHH was his favorite wrestler was just supposed to be for Rocky to give him that shocked look.

 

The fact that we have a 12 page thread about the Punk promo, and the fact that Punk's two segments on RAW two weeks later were the big ratings spikes for the show, clearly mean people are interested in Punk after that promo. But the 'doofus son in law" was just a quick shot and the bigger picture was Punk more or less trashing the company he's leaving.

[soup23]

This angle to me has shown in some ways how little the hardcore wrestling fans matter in the long run. We all know that the people that visit sites like this and DVDVR are a very small minority, but I am amazed at how on many of the follow up shows I listened to, people were talking about how they pirated the PPV to give WWE a chance like they are doing some great deed to the company.

[Dooley]

This angle to me has shown in some ways how little the hardcore wrestling fans matter in the long run. We all know that the people that visit sites like this and DVDVR are a very small minority, but I am amazed at how on many of the follow up shows I listened to, people were talking about how they pirated the PPV to give WWE a chance like they are doing some great deed to the company.

Is it really only hardcore fans that pirate shows though? Don't casual fans own computers?

[soup23]

This angle to me has shown in some ways how little the hardcore wrestling fans matter in the long run. We all know that the people that visit sites like this and DVDVR are a very small minority, but I am amazed at how on many of the follow up shows I listened to, people were talking about how they pirated the PPV to give WWE a chance like they are doing some great deed to the company.

Is it really only hardcore fans that pirate shows though? Don't casual fans own computers?

 

 

I would think that hardcore fans would represent the vast majority. Again, most casuals would only visit specific websites such as wwe.com, wrestling.com, etc. I know czwfans usually has a thread that produces a good stream each PPV but I find it hard to believe that most casuals are either:

A. going to one of these obscure sites that have threads with decent streams and registering, etc. (Even a bigger site than CZWfans doesn't provide ongoing coverage so stream links would be unavailable.)

B. Constantly searching something like jsutin.tv for a stream that doesn't constantly crash

C. Having the interest and/or knowledge to register for a site like XWT or PWT to download the torrent.

[jdw]

I wish people would start posting number of viewers instead of ratings points because a lot of people don't seem to understand that a 3.2 in 2011 is not the same as a 3.2 in 1998. A 3.2 ratings equals about 4.83 million viewers, which is a whole lot of people watching the show. It's also .3 higher than last week.

+0.3 the day after "the most talked about PPV following the Greatest Promo Ever" means... what?

 

When we use to pay a crapload of attention to ratings back in the 90s, +/- 0.2 from the normal ratings range was meaningless and happened all the time. There also tended to be post-PPV bumps where people who didn't buy the PPV tuned in to "see what happened".

 

Last night has a "see what happened" factor, opened with Vince & Cena talking about it, then rolled out a World Title Tourney to anchor the entire show, then climaxed with a Vince angle and The Return Of Trip.

 

+0.3?

 

Pimping that is akin to Russo & Ryder pimping insignificant ratings bumps to justify The Genius Of Russo.

 

John

[Dooley]

This angle to me has shown in some ways how little the hardcore wrestling fans matter in the long run. We all know that the people that visit sites like this and DVDVR are a very small minority, but I am amazed at how on many of the follow up shows I listened to, people were talking about how they pirated the PPV to give WWE a chance like they are doing some great deed to the company.

Is it really only hardcore fans that pirate shows though? Don't casual fans own computers?

 

 

I would think that hardcore fans would represent the vast majority. Again, most casuals would only visit specific websites such as wwe.com, wrestling.com, etc. I know czwfans usually has a thread that produces a good stream each PPV but I find it hard to believe that most casuals are either:

A. going to one of these obscure sites that have threads with decent streams and registering, etc. (Even a bigger site than CZWfans doesn't provide ongoing coverage so stream links would be unavailable.)

B. Constantly searching something like jsutin.tv for a stream that doesn't constantly crash

C. Having the interest and/or knowledge to register for a site like XWT or PWT to download the torrent.

 

I think you're focusing too much on the "wrestling" aspect. Your average nobody sitting at home has the knowledge to download torrents for movies, music, etc. They find streaming sites like http://www.myp2p.eu/index.php?part=sports or one of a few dozen others that serve the same function and happen to show WWF as well. They won't pay for rasslin' but hey, it's on the site so they'll give it a view.

[soup23]

This angle to me has shown in some ways how little the hardcore wrestling fans matter in the long run. We all know that the people that visit sites like this and DVDVR are a very small minority, but I am amazed at how on many of the follow up shows I listened to, people were talking about how they pirated the PPV to give WWE a chance like they are doing some great deed to the company.

Is it really only hardcore fans that pirate shows though? Don't casual fans own computers?

 

 

I would think that hardcore fans would represent the vast majority. Again, most casuals would only visit specific websites such as wwe.com, wrestling.com, etc. I know czwfans usually has a thread that produces a good stream each PPV but I find it hard to believe that most casuals are either:

A. going to one of these obscure sites that have threads with decent streams and registering, etc. (Even a bigger site than CZWfans doesn't provide ongoing coverage so stream links would be unavailable.)

B. Constantly searching something like jsutin.tv for a stream that doesn't constantly crash

C. Having the interest and/or knowledge to register for a site like XWT or PWT to download the torrent.

 

I think you're focusing too much on the "wrestling" aspect. Your average nobody sitting at home has the knowledge to download torrents for movies, music, etc. They find streaming sites like http://www.myp2p.eu/index.php?part=sports or one of a few dozen others that serve the same function and happen to show WWF as well. They won't pay for rasslin' but hey, it's on the site so they'll give it a view.

 

 

We can agree to disagree but I just feel like if they were a casual fan and this interested they would order the PPV anyway. For example, I have a general interest in the Boxing and buy the 1-2 major PPV shows a year. I don't have HBO but enjoyed the verbal attack between Klitschko and Haye and wanted to see the fight. Instead of chancing the means that I know of that might be showing the fight (czwfans thread, random websites that I don't know if are that reliable, etc.) I just ordered HBO for a month so I was guarenteed to see the fight in the best picture possible. The difference between $20.00 that I paid for this and $45.00 for a PPV is a big one, but in the grand scheme of things I say if the casuals are that interested they will either order the PPV legally or wait and find out what happens and move on.

[Jingus]

Pirating PPVs is less about how hardcore a fan you are and more about your online tendencies. Would it be pretty safe to assume that folks who pirate WWE ppvs are also pirating movies and other stuff like that? I certainly know that I've done plenty of both. But are there people out there who only pirate wrestling shows and nothing else? It requires you to both 1.be enough of a fan to give a damn about seeing the show in the first place, and 2.know enough about the internet to be able to do so for free. The overall number of people who fit into both categories is probably pretty damn small, when compared to the massive casual fanbase.

 

Also agreed that TV ratings really should be listed by number of viewers. Why does the industry still stick to those old percentage numbers? They're so vague and open to abuse, since most people don't really know just exactly how the system works. Like goc said, a 0.3 now is a hell of a lot more people than a 0.3 during the Monday Night Wars. Just going with a straight "number of viewers" total would simplify everything so much. Not like that would solve everything; I know that Nielsen really needs to expand their survey base, they still posit the ratings numbers for the entire television industry based on a grand total of no more than 25,000 households. But it would still be a step in the right direction.

[Ditch]

based on a grand total of no more than 25,000 households.

In statistical analysis, assuming the 25000 are truly random, odds are hugely in favor of it being accurate. Especially on shows with over a million viewers.

[jdw]

Exactly what Jingus said.

 

In the earlier days of the net, the hardcore music fans pirated bootlegs.

 

Now... regular music fans pirate/share new releases.

 

We have a generation of online "consumers" who get/think that they don't have to pay for much... other than their ISP bill.

 

It's probably not a massive bite yet for the WWE (or UFC), but it's likely increasing quite a bit.

 

John

[Bix]

I wouldn't say that, WWE's big decline on PPV got a lot worse when monthly PPVs went up to $44.95 SD/$54.95 HD.

 

As I've said before, this is where being a real sport helps UFC. People aren't going to watch TV the next day or look online to see what happened and wait a few weeks for the much cheaper DVD/Blu ray to watch it like with WWE.

 

Honestly, I bet that if the PPV arrangements didn't force them into charging the same price for official streams, they could have a strong discount stream busness.

[jdw]

My guess is that long term, they will try to migrate to only streams. We'll eventually get to the point where you'll stream it right onto your big HD TV rather than stream it onto your computer screen. They would pocket all the money rather than have middle men.

 

The negative to that is that the big ISP's are moving in the direction of charging big data users for what they suck down above a certain amount. It's going to be interesting to see how that impacts the likes of Netflicks streaming and other online viewing in high quality. With ISP's shrinking (i.e. heading in the direction of the two big phone companies and what will eventually be 2-3 cable companies carving up the country before the phone and cable company ISP businesses get merged), it's very easy for 1-2 of them to set a policy, have it not drive away a bunch of users, and then the rest of them follow that policy. It's essentially what the oil companies have done over the decades on price at the pumps.

 

John

[Bix]

With Comcast and AT&T both capped, who's the biggest ISP without caps now? Verizon? Cox?

 

Locally Cablevision has shown no signs of capping data. Arguably, they've gone the opposite way: For $5 a month you can mirror your PC on a dedicated cable channel if your have their software installed.

 

At any rate, with online backup, high quality streaming video, etc. getting bigger and bigger, there probably will be a big revolt against the caps soon. Having said that, at least with Comcast, they're not doing it to gouge people. There's no higher consumer tier, they dont suggest an uncapped business account (and if you want one hey may require proof that you have a business), and you can be banned from being able to pay them for internet access. It's incredibly strange since it's not like the extra data costs them more.

 

Anyway, as far as my original point goes, there's something that should be kept in mind: There are wrestling/MMA stream sites that charge for monthly access to reliable, relatively high quality streams. People are willing to pay for PPVs, but not get gouged. I'm sure that buys would be much higher if WWE PPVs were still $30 or so. When the DVD comes out in 4 weeks and the retail price is $25, 56% of the PPV price. You can easily find it for $20 (44% of the PPV price) or less. You can keep up with the storyline easily and legally see the PPV pretty damn soon (especially if you live near stores that break street date) while saving a lot of money if you wait for the DVD. $45 is just ridiculous and it's surprised me that Dave Meltzer et al never mention that as a breaking point for PPV buys.

[MJH]

And that $45 price is for a SD feed of an HD show, which only emphasises the difference between the two.

 

This same debate was a part of the MitB thread on DVDVR; people talking about how much "value for money" the show was. It was a great show, and had it been £15 on SBO rather than No Extra Charge on Sky Sports, I'd've been fine with paying the £15 for the show (which is the same as the DVD retail price here). But $55 for an HD feed is nearly triple that and I just don't think even the greatest show ever would be worth that.

[Bix]

The regular PPVs are only 15 pounds ($24.24 US)? Wow. I knew they were cheaper but not 54% (44% if that includes HD) of the US price cheaper. Are they about that low in most countries outside the US & Canada where they're aired as PPVs? Does WWE get approximately 40% like in the US & Canada or more?

 

Then there's the big question: Would US buys double (or more) with a price drop to UK levels? Their loyal audience is big enough that I think it's a strong possibility. Yeah, they're monthly now, but WCW was easily able to hit more domestically than WWE does now total on most PPV during periods that were considered disastrous for their business as a whole. Also, they had a much smaller PPV universe.

[goodhelmet]

$45 is just ridiculous and it's surprised me that Dave Meltzer et al never mention that as a breaking point for PPV buys.

 

To be fair, Alvarez and mookieghana did an article about PPV buyrates and what would be a fair price earlier this year or late last year.

 

Also, the HD stream for the PPV in SA was $45 for Time Warner.

[soup23]

The $45.00/$55.00 thing depends on the cable provider and I don't really understand how legally it works because I moved 3 miles down the road in the last 3 months and switch from Comcast (where PPV's were $45 across the board) to AT&T (the $45/$55 split)

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Meltzer gave Cena-Punk *****, the first WWE match to receive such an honor since the HBK-Taker HITC. I can't disagree.