smkelly Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I didn't like the direction the angle was taken on Raw. It seems as though what Meltzer -- and a few of us thought in the beginning -- is coming to fruition. * Punk is being "downsized" so Cena can feud with del Rio over the title. Punk said he had zero qualms with him, but had issues with Nash instead (rightfully so), and now the other top baby face (Misterio) gets his long-awaited time under the knife after the traditional Pillmanizing-esque attack to free up time for surgery routine. * The text message thing - such a Russo white hummer whodunit mystery already. Nash will likely be only the catalyst of the faux Holmes investigation made by Punk, but where do those roads lead? It should lead to Cena or (preferably) Austin -- but that isn't and wasn't the aim of the angles' shelf life. * One McMahon is "forced" to step back while another McMahon gets air time, Hunter is "running" the show, and Kevin Nash is now the primary target of CM Punk's. And to top it off, Nash has already called H's out, which only adds "intrigue" to the mysterious sender of a hit text message but will probably end with Hunter, his wife, and Nash all having a belly laugh for twenty minutes at the start of Raw because they were all in on it from the beginning. Basically, the way Hunter has always done angles, Nash too - they're "smarter" than everyone else and they always come out the other side looking "better". Hence the original concept of this angle - McMahon Clan #1 -- Punk somewhere under them and John Cena. Therefore, status quo will be resumed. -- It (Summer of Punk) was awesome, indeed. I have loved Punk's promos -- towards Cena, and the back-and-forths with McMahon, Hunter, and admittedly, Nash, but as the adage goes, "All good things must come to an end." And that's where I have a problem. They have wrestlers that can perform, that can have excellent matches. They can do that at will, but their long-term booking strategies leave a lot to be desired. And that is the reason for my apprehension over this angles' most recent developments. I don't care to see Stephanie nor Kevin Nash involved because Triple H is a dangerous mixture all on his own without adding the captain of booking and the destroyer of careers and WCW into the pot. I wish I had the optimism of another adage - that "things have a way of working themselves out in the end," but I can't, and it's because "what you see is what you get." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Security protecting Punk from Nash looked ridiculous. Turned out it was Punk who brought up shooty bullshit. Its a good thing Punk has been winning lately. Otherwise his current gimmick would make him look like a wimpy coward. ??? Punk challenged Nash, who had the security in his back pocket, not the other way around. (Unless your post was sarcastic.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I thought the Punk stuff was ok last night. Nash seemed a little out of it to start his promo. Maybe the "What?" shit just got to him. Nash did seem pretty legit pissed at some of the stuff Punk was saying. I did not like Cena's promo to end the show at all. MITB has been put over as a star-making vehicle for years now. Cena comes out and gets all pissed that Del Rio used it. Really? Cena's just been soooo whiny lately. Either he's going through yet another period of shitty writing for him, or this has to be leading somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 There is still enough momentum in the feud to do a third Cena/Punk match. I can understand why they're keeping them separate for now, but I think that's my biggest disappointment, that they seem to be going in opposite directions now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think there's still a ton of mileage left in Punk/Cena. WWE seems to make it a habit these days of stretching their main event feuds out for months (Orton/Christian), yet now when they have a super hot main event feud which is delivering in the ring and on the mic and in every possible way, they cut off the legs so we can get a Rebel v Authority Figure feud and a Cena v One Dimensional Stooging Heel. Two feuds which have ben seen dozens and dozens of times over the last ten years. I feel like last night they went from something original (which potentially could have encompassed other workers than Cena/Punk without losing the central thread of intrigue) to two really straightforward, dull angles. It didn't help that Raw itself was absolutely horrible, but to me they've made a huge misstep here, and I'm an optimist whose been happy with every turn in the angle except Summerslam and Punk coming back too early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I imagine Cena/Punk III would be at the HIAC PPV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Security protecting Punk from Nash looked ridiculous. Turned out it was Punk who brought up shooty bullshit. Its a good thing Punk has been winning lately. Otherwise his current gimmick would make him look like a wimpy coward. ??? Punk challenged Nash, who had the security in his back pocket, not the other way around. (Unless your post was sarcastic.) I think I phrased this poorly. What I meant was the size difference between Punk and Nash was so great, the idea Nash needed protection from him looked ludicrous. As for the rest, Punk seems like a guy who rather talk than actually fight. Especially since he made no effort to get past security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I was going to say that I think they should go with Cena vs Del Rio for the next two PPVs and save Punk/Cena III for Survivor Series and the NYC crowd. But I just checked, and they are running a second October show again, this time Vengeance on Oct 23. (HIAC gets a whopping 2 week build, and Vengeance 3 weeks. This could be where things indeed go off the rails booking wise.) That scheduling seems screwy--Vengeance seems doomed to a really low buy # sandwiched between HIAC and SS. Maybe they'll feel the need to run Punk/Cena III for that show in order to give it a hook. But who knows, maybe there are no plans for Punk/Cena III at all. (Even though a heated MSG would be the perfect place for it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 They could a Triple Threat match at Vengence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostka Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I imagine Cena/Punk III would be at the HIAC PPV.Unfortunately it looks to be more likely Cena-Del Rio and Punk-Nash or HHH for that show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 They should save Punk/Trips until Wrestlemania IMO, give both a match that feels both important and fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Catching up on posts, but in watching the Punk promo that started the thread, it was clear he was positioning himself as the heel. Now, in reading the booking for SummerSlam, they used an angle that would, to me, make Punk a babyface, a mere month after that strong heel promo. Personally, I can't buy into a guy turning babyface barely a month after a strong heel promo. The ideas themselves may have been good, but turning a guy babyface so soon after a strong heel performance just doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 The crowd turned him as much as anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think that's kind of the cool thing about this feud, in that a lot of the guys have undefined roles. Cena is the only true face (and he's getting mixed reactions as always), whereas Punk and HHH are getting decent reactions without necessarily being positioned as traditional face characters, and guys like Nash, Jonny Ace and Vince at the start are all kind of in the middle. It makes things a bit more unpredictable and actually makes the crowds hotter, contrary to that tired view that you shouldn't confuse the audience as to who they are meant to cheer for. That's why it's disappointing if it breaks down into the worn linear angles of Punk v The Establishment and Cena v Disposable Heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 If Punk is going face, he'll inevitably team with Cena at some point. I hope that's hyped well and built up well instead of thrown out there without thought. If there's someone to team with Del Rio, that could even be used as a Vengeance main event or something. Maybe Miz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 One aspect of this angle not being like typical WWE was that Punk was even off of TV for one week at all. Remember when Cena was "fired" and didn't miss a week of TV? That they managed to withhold every instinct to keep Punk off of the TV show for an entire week showed restraint on their part, even if it's probably a stretch to call it restraint. As far as keeping Punk off of TV, I think WWE was "damned if you do, damned if you don't" there. They had built Punk into being the hottest wrestler in the country. If they keep him off of TV, they're taking their hottest wrestler, the one guy people are talking about above everybody else, and not capitalizing on that at all. While it would have undoubtedly been cool for Punk to show up at the ROH TV tapings on Saturday, where would that put SummerSlam on Sunday? SummerSlam is their #3 PPV of the year, and not having their hottest wrestler as a part of that show would have made for a show that would have had no chance at drawing a buyrate. What would have headlined, Orton vs Christian Part XXXV? Rey/Cena is the only match that could have conceivably drawn a decent buyrate, but I'm not sure I would have trusted WWE to handle a pure face vs pure face build for that show. Really, if Punk/Cena draws even one buy more than last year's SummerSlam, then bringing Punk back early was the right call, because this year's SummerSlam without Punk would have died a brutal death, whereas with Punk, I think it has potential to beat last year's buyrate. Short-term, they had to bring Punk back for SummerSlam to salvage the buyrate. Long-term is trickier to answer, but while the viral Punk stuff may have gotten over great on the internet, Punk being off of TV may have hurt him with casual fans since he would have zero visibility with them. While it may have felt too early to bring him back, keeping him off of TV for too long risks him losing the great momentum he had coming off of MITB. I don't know if there is a perfect way to book this angle, but I can't fault WWE for wanting him back sooner rather than later while he was still gaining steam. Of course, being programmed with Kevin Nash in the year 2011 is a great way to lose all of that steam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 They probably wouldn't have even kept him off a week if they had to physically wait a week to tape the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's getting lost with all the Punk stuff, but man I hope Rey ends up one of those guys who WWE takes care of for life. He's probably at least 5 years past the point of having a destroyed knee, and the last couple of weeks have been painful to watch. He's been doing everything WWE has asked of him, including wrestling the main event on RAW last night. I know Dave's mentioned it before that the last time Rey had surgery he was told he shouldn't even jump off a curb with his knee, and he's still out there running around doing moonsaults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's a different point then what you are making and it probably doesn't belong in this thread, but at this point I think Rey is easily one of the ten best in ring wrestlers of all time. The fact that he is physically destroyed and still no worse than top five in the World is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's a different point then what you are making and it probably doesn't belong in this thread, but at this point I think Rey is easily one of the ten best in ring wrestlers of all time. The fact that he is physically destroyed and still no worse than top five in the World is insane. I view this as less of a commentary on Rey than the overall quality of the worldwide product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's a different point then what you are making and it probably doesn't belong in this thread, but at this point I think Rey is easily one of the ten best in ring wrestlers of all time. The fact that he is physically destroyed and still no worse than top five in the World is insane. I've been thinking recently that you can make an argument at this point for Rey as the best in-ring guy ever. He's been having consistently great matches for 18 years, never has bad ones, his matches are always heated, and has a ridiculous amount of 4-star matches to his name. He's an absolute machine. In the last two months, he's had great matches with Cena, Punk, and Del Rio, the 3-way with Del Rio and Punk, and a great tag match with Riley against Miz and Swagger. We just take it for granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 In one night Rey had great matches with Miz and Cena. Its amazing when you realize the injuries he is dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's a different point then what you are making and it probably doesn't belong in this thread, but at this point I think Rey is easily one of the ten best in ring wrestlers of all time. The fact that he is physically destroyed and still no worse than top five in the World is insane. I've been thinking recently that you can make an argument at this point for Rey as the best in-ring guy ever. He's been having consistently great matches for 18 years, never has bad ones, his matches are always heated, and has a ridiculous amount of 4-star matches to his name. He's an absolute machine. In the last two months, he's had great matches with Cena, Punk, and Del Rio, the 3-way with Del Rio and Punk, and a great tag match with Riley against Miz and Swagger. We just take it for granted. I did a mock top hundred with my brother this week when he was in town and I had Rey at 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I'm not saying for sure that he's ahead of Flair, Funk, Jumbo, etc, but I think he should be in the conversation at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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