Dylan Waco Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Not sure on Wade but they seem to have had a good relationship at the time the HoF started even if they don't now. One would hope SOMEONE with some clout with Dave would go to bat for Blackwell. I have no fucking clout with Dave but thought the case was worth exploring. At minimum Blackwell is someone who should be on the ballot and discussed seriously. I think the High Flyers are a lost cause, though I may pull some numbers over for them later this week and I suspect a lot of folks will be shocked at how important they were to the AWA for almost ten years. Buddy Rose would be my other pet cause, but I'm not sure I can find Portland figures, nor do I think Dave would give a shit since he lives in a World where we are supposed to ignore the business models of various territories and/or analyze them senselessly. Rose is also hindered by the fact that the discovery of his footage is recent and Dave apparently despises going back and watching old footage. So even though Dave and smarks were high on Rose at the time and the consensus for years was that he was a great worker who's prime we would unfortunately never see so his real status will never be known, there will be no attempt to contextualize Rose as a worker now because it's "unfair" to judge things outside of the era when they occurred or some such shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 One would hope SOMEONE with some clout with Dave would go to bat for Blackwell. I have no fucking clout with Dave but thought the case was worth exploring. At minimum Blackwell is someone who should be on the ballot and discussed seriously. I think the High Flyers are a lost cause, though I may pull some numbers over for them later this week and I suspect a lot of folks will be shocked at how important they were to the AWA for almost ten years. Dave spoke of the AWA so condescendingly in his early newsletters that it would take someone pretty close to him to convince him of Blackwell's legitimacy as a candidate. He would need to see and study Blackwell from 80 - 84 to get it, if he had any inclination to "get it" in this case. Same reason the High Flyers would never seriously get consideration, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 This is interesting, and I think it's worth starting the conversation somewhere where Dave can see it and may respond for sure. The reason I think this is a compelling case is because you're basing candidacy on ring work and attendance figures, not just one or the other. Usually, when someone like Dundee or whoever gets advocated, I can't get on board because there's something consistent about everyone who has been inducted based on ring work. They all have reps. A guy who is among the best ever in the ring who doesn't have the rep for being among the best ever in the ring isn't a HOF candidate. It's perception over reality when it comes to the HOF, which sounds like a backhanded compliment, but is really (mostly) not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I actually think Buddy Rose has "the rep" from the perspective that he was widely regarded as a "Holy Grail" type. I.E. "damn I wish we had more footage, because what we have is great." Really think what kills him is that Dave is a fierce opponent of going back and exploring old footage "out of context" - even if it is in context with everything else from that era. This is also something that hurts the World of Sport guys. They have reps, even among voters and people who have been in the "smart fan" universe for years. The problem is that they aren't going to be watched, pimped, or promoted by the guy running the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 There's an interesting question in itself: Does Wade Keller get a HOF ballot? Not sure that he still has one. I do remember him talking about having one and kind of apologising on an audio when the subject came up stating not having time to devote to it during the time of his son's birth two or three years ago. Probably ask him on Twitter now what he thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 I don't think Dave would be against putting Rose on the ballot. Indeed, I thought Dave's obituary in 2009 built a strong case that he was maybe an overlooked candidate for the HOF and put him over strong as a worker, so I'm surprised that he wasn't put on the ballot after his death. The problem with the High Flyers, Blackwell and even Rose as HOF candidates is that a lot of the voters put great stock in getting over as headliners in multiple territories, especially places like New York and St. Louis. They'd be very hard to get elected given the electorate's current mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 The problem with the High Flyers, Blackwell and even Rose as HOF candidates is that a lot of the voters put great stock in getting over as headliners in multiple territories, especially places like New York and St. Louis. They'd be very hard to get elected given the electorate's current mentality. True, but one could (and should) argue that teams or singles that maintained a strong, steady drawing power in one area for years, in an era where the majority or wrestlers travelled to different territories to stay fresh, are perhaps more impressive in their drawing power, in the sense that they keep drawing in the same core audience time after time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Just wanted to add to the praise for the work here, guys. KHawk, that Blackwell stuff is outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 There was a time that I thought I might sit out the AWA 80's set. Not after reading this stuff. Can't wait for it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 You absolutely do not want to sit out on the AWA Set. In many respects it is the most "wide open" set because the company had such a huge variety of guys come through during the 80s and while there are a few usual suspects as far as top contenders go (Bock v. Hennig, if you have been around long enough Rose/Somers v. Midnight Rockers), the possibilities for number one are not as locked in as they are with the other sets. In other words I think there is less bias coming in and more opportunity to discover things that have been almost totally forgotten. Blackwell is great and will be one of the stars of the set. To Keith's point about the "national star" talking point, I think that is precisely why Meltzer has not placed Rose on the ballot. McAdam made the same criticism of Rose recently in a thread at Classics where he insisted Adonis was a better worker than Rose largely because Adonis "made it" nationally and Rose didn't. Of course Rose/Somers was maybe the last consistently compelling heel act in the AWA, Rose got over very well in San Fran, he was a Backlund challenger in NYC and Philly and he largely didn't "make it" nationally because he could make huge money, working a close to home schedule, for the most honest promoter in the United States. But as I noted before Meltzer is not a huge fan of looking at those sort of contextual realities. Instead he wants to harp on about how Edge was the lead heel of "two different territories" at once, or how HHH was on a bunch of huge money making shows so is a much better candidate than guys who merely anchored successful territories for years by themselves (Colon, Rose). It may be worth noting that Blackwell worked on top in Memphis v. Lawler and was over. Also worth noting perhaps that Blackwell was at least a star of some magnitude in St. Louis if everything I've heard is true. I tend to think those things are barely relevant to his candidacy, and I'm not certain he is an HoFer, but it is really absurd that he's not on the ballot. High Flyers were never going to be national stars. Not because they weren't good enough, but because they were hugely important to the AWA and Greg was never going anywhere else for reasons that are obvious. Should I even bother with a High Flyers attendance breakdown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 K, so something i've been thinking about lately. Someone mentioned pages & pages ago in this thread about Chris Daniels being a draw on the indies. A number of people have paid specifically to go see him wrestle so technically that's true but if that amount is only in the hundreds or even 1000 range it's hardly THAT impressive. I know there's no magic # but in general, how large does a crowd have to be for it to be impressive enough that you can claim it on your resume as one of the factors in your HoF candidacy? More then a couple thousand? 5000+??? 5 digit range? And once that person does reach that #, how many times does he have to hit it? Would someone who consistently drew crowds of a few thousand but rarely anything mega huge be a better candidate then someone who has a few giant gates a year and then low level stuff the rest of the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 K, so something i've been thinking about lately. Someone mentioned pages & pages ago in this thread about Chris Daniels being a draw on the indies. A number of people have paid specifically to go see him wrestle so technically that's true but if that amount is only in the hundreds or even 1000 range it's hardly THAT impressive. I know there's no magic # but in general, how large does a crowd have to be for it to be impressive enough that you can claim it on your resume as one of the factors in your HoF candidacy? More then a couple thousand? 5000+??? 5 digit range? And once that person does reach that #, how many times does he have to hit it? Would someone who consistently drew crowds of a few thousand but rarely anything mega huge be a better candidate then someone who has a few giant gates a year and then low level stuff the rest of the time? My problem with Daniels isn't that he only drew 1000 people here or there it's that A. I don't think he was ever a draw in any meaningful sense and B. Even if he was in a more abstract sense he was never an anchor of a promotion that was financially successful. To me the size of the crowds matters to the extent that someone who is the anchor of an indy in East TN that regularly draws 400 people doesn't belong in a Hall of Fame. But if you are the anchor of a promotion that runs a loop, is clearly financially successful, are regarded by most as the biggest draw in the history of that territory, et I see no reason why you shouldn't be strongly considered and I would definitely value the candidacy of a person like that over the candidacy of someone who just happened to get pushed for a couple of years after there was only one megashow left in town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Decided to do 85 for Blackwell because why the fuck not? It's fun and it gives us an interesting look in general since the promotion was on the decline, but had some ups and downs of note: 1/8/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Jim Garvin beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Curt Hennig & Larry Hennig beat King Kong Brody & Sheik Adnan Fabulous Ones & Baron Von Raschke beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Nick Bockwinkel beat Curt Hennig Brad Rheingans beat Sheik Adnan COR Att 8987 1/10/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena TV Taping Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Jerry Blackwell beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Sgt. Slaughter beat Mr. Saito dq Jimmy Garvin beat John Nord dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Brian Jewel & Rob Rechsteiner Att: 5,628 That's a very good figure for a Blackwelless SLC, but look at the show - it's fucking loaded. Hard to imagine a more loaded show for 85 AWA than that as you have Bock, Brody, Hennigs (with Curt doing double duty), a World Title match and Roadies v. Fabs. hard to say if the fact that it was a TV Taping helped Winnipeg or not, but that feels like a hot main event and the fact is it's up over 2,000 from the previous Winnipeg show where Blackwell was third from the top against aged Billy Robinson. 1/12/85 Milwaukee, WI Fabulous Ones & The Crusher beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Lights Out Match King Kong Brody beat Jerry Blackwell Jimmy Garvin beat Jim Brunzell via pin Nick Bockwinkel drew Curt Hennig Masked Superstar beat Tom Stone via pin Brad Rheingans beat Jake Milliman (sub Mr. Saito) Att: 5,741 Note: Milwaukee Sentinel says Blackwell beat Brody That's less than 500 away from a sellout in Milwaukee, with what looks like a very hot double main event and not much else of note on the show (Bock v. Curt didn't "heat up" til later and I'm not sure it ever did impressive business). 1/13/85 St Paul, MN @ Civic Center evening Jim Garvin beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq No dq match, Sheik Adnan handcuffed to Sgt. Slaughter Jerry Blackwell beat King Kong Brody COR The Crusher & Fabulous Ones beat the Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Masked Superstar & Sheik Adnan Nick Bockwinkel & Mr Saito beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig dq Baron Von Raschke drew Billy Robinson John Nord beat Jimmy Doo Brad Rheingans beat Steve Regal att: 11,000 This is a strong number, though the show is really loaded. You could argue it could have done better, but it seems wrong to pan a 10k plus show in the AWA. Hard to pinpoint what was moving business, but it is worth noting that Brody v. Blackwell is the hottest feud in the territory by a safe margin if you are going by the tv. 1/17/85 Las Vegas, NV @ Showboat Sports Pavilion Lights Out match Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar (sub King Kong Brody) Jimmy Garvin beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Non title Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig (subs for Fabulous Ones) beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors Nick Bockwinkel beat Brad Rheingans Jim Brunzell beat Steve Regal att: 3,000 This is a very good number for Showboat I would imagine. 1/30/85 San Francisco, CA @ Cow Palace No dq match Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar (sub King Kong Brody) Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig (Subs for Fabulous Ones) & Baron Von Raschke beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Jim Garvin beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Sgt. Slaughter beat Nick Bockwinkel Pat Barrett drew Guy Lambert Att 4900 Very good number for the Palace, bordering on great when you see how shitty that town had been drawing in prior years. Also interesting that Superstar v. Blackwell went on last and the title match was in the mid-card. I would venture to guess this had to do with what matches were garnering the most heat as Blackwell v. Brody was the hot feud. Also worth noting that Superstar was plugged in fairly effectively as a replacement for Brody from a storyline perspective which I think speaks well of Eadie, Adnan (who was hated) and Blackwell. 2/3/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon Jerry Blackwell no contest Masked Superstar AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Sgt. Slaughter & Nick Bockwinkel dq Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat King Tonga & Sheik Adnan Larry Hennig beat John Nord Curt Hennig beat Drew Tossell Tom Zenk drew Steve Regal Would love a number for this. I doubt the crowd knew this would be Superstar and figured it would be Brody and yet Verne STILL put this on last. Again that speaks well of Blackwell as the top face at this point. 2/7/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Blackjack Lanza (sub Jerry Blackwell) & Sgt. Slaughter beat Masked Superstar & King Tonga (sub King Kong Brody) dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors dq Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke Tom Zenk drew Steve Regal Nick Bockwinkel beat Curt Hennig Buddy Lane beat Rick Renslow John Nord beat Drew Tossell att: 4,108 Blackwell misses the show, presumably as a no-show of some kind, i.e. last second switch out. This is an ok number for Winnipeg, but I'm curious if they offer refunds as two subs in the main event could have caused some people to say "fuck this." 2/20/85 San Francisco, CA @ Cow Palace King Tonga & Masked Superstar beat Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig drew Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito Steve Regal beat Tom Zenk John Nord beat Sheik Adnan COR Samoan Samula beat Guy Lambert dq att: 1,981 2/21/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Lights Out Match Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar Jim Garvin beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig King Tonga beat Tom Zenk John Nord beat Steve Regal Att: 7754. 2/22/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors dq AWA Champion Rick Martel dcor Bob Backlund Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke Mr. Saito & Masked Superstar & King Tonga beat Steve O & Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal John Nord drew Tom Zenk Att 10,000+ What's funny is that 2k is actually not awful for the Cow Palace, though it's less than half of the last show. Looking at the card that's no surprise. SLC is still holding really strong. St. Paul turns in another good number. Blackwell is notably placed in the last match of all of these cards. Pretty clear Verne sees him as his money making babyface and there is no reason to think he was wrong. 3/4/85 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada @ PNE Coliseum AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Brunzell AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Mr. Saito & Moose Morowski Lights Out match Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar Jim Brunzell beat Sheik Adnan Buck Zumhofe beat Moondog Moretti Steve Austin beat John Baker Att: 1,500 At this point you see Verne starting to move into a couple of oddball spots out West. I have no clue why they were trying to run Vancouver now, unless Verne was just pissed at Tomko for some reason. No clue if this is a good figure for the town or not. Not surprising that they would run title matches on top in a "new" town. 3/7/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito King Tonga beat Sgt. Slaughter dq Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar Jerry Blackwell drew Sheik Adnan Billy Robinson beat Buddy Lane Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal att: 5,208 Winnipeg still holding pretty solid. Interesting card and if it is the show I'm thinking you clearly have to credit Blackwell for a lot of this. The result doesn't say it, but this was a match where If Blackwell beat Eadie he got five minutes with Adnan. Crowd was molten for it, it's a great match(es?), and it definitely felt like the biggest thing on the show. 3/8/85 St Louis, MO AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Nick Bockwinkel Missouri State Champion Jerry Blackwell beat Bulldog Bob Brown Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Masked Superstar & Mr Saito Sgt Slaughter dcor Wahoo McDaniel Mike Von Erich beat Jimmy Garvin American Starship beat Marty Jannetty & Steve Olsonoski Dick the Bruiser beat Mr Pogo dq Rufus R Jones beat Ken Timbs att: 2,610 Wow. No clue what to think of this. This is probably a Central States promoted show...or is it? Hard to tell. Feels like a shitty figure, but why the fuck was Verne running that town assuming this wasn't Geigel and friends? 3/9/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin Special Referee: Verne Gagne Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell beat King Tonga & Masked Superstar & Sheik Adnan dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito Curt Hennig beat Billy Robinson Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Candi Devine beat Diane Von Hoffman John Nord drew Tom Zenk Would like a figure here. Also worth noting that the High Flyers have re-emerged on the last several shows. 3/10/85 Green Bay, WI @ Brown County Veteran’s Memorial Arena Strap Match Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar King Tonga beat Sgt. Slaughter dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito when Brunzell pinned Bockwinkel Candi Devine beat Diane Von Hoffman via pin Non Title Buck Zumhofe beat AWA Light Heavyweight Champion Steve Regal via pin Wonder how this did. GB was an interesting town to monitor as it only seemed to draw huge for molten programs. This is followed up by a bizarre run of shows in modest sized upstate NJ towns. No fucking clue what the point of that was. No figures on them, but Jerry isn't on the shows anyhow. 3/16/85 Oakland, CA If Blackwell wins, Jerry gets 5 minutes with Sheik Adnan Jerry Blackwell beat King Tonga dq when Adnan & Masked Superstar interfered AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Nick Bockwinkel (sub Jim Garvin) Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Masked Superstar Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Jerry Monti beat Don Stevenson att: 3,400 In a fit of insanity Verne is running split crews, with Slaughter headlining in NJ and Blackwell headlining here. Notable non-Cow Palace show in the Bay Area. Probably a wise move as this does a good figure for that general area by AWA standards of the time and it was probably cheaper to run this venue. 3/19/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Jerry Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter beat Masked Superstar & King Tonga dq AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Brunzell Nick Bockwinkel beat Greg Gagne dq Misty Blue beat Linda Dallas Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Att 4502 Verne the lunatic runs a split show again, this time with Baron/Backlund headlining against Nagasaki/Saito in NY. As a result both shows are weak and SLC shits the bed for the first time since Blackwell was MIA in 84. Not really an awful number for the town, but clearly a bad sign. 3/23/85 New Haven, CT @ Veteran's Memorial Coliseum Tonga Kid won a $50,000.00 battle royal AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin Sgt. Slaughter beat Kamala dq Tonga Kid beat Larry Zbyszko dq Bob Backlund beat Kendo Nagasaki Mark Youngblood & Jay Youngblood drew The Samoans Att: 7000 3/23/85 Middleton, WI The Crusher & Larry Hennig & Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar & Mr. Saito & King Tonga dq Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel Mr. Saito beat Curt Hennig Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Tom Zenk beat Rick Stoansky The split shows continue. That's a good number for New Haven, but again you have to wonder why on Earth they are trying to run that area. No number on the Middleton show which looks to be a small town spot show. With that lineup I'd be shocked if it wasn't a sell out. 3/24/85 Denver, CO @ Auditorium Arena afternoon Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors dq Jerry Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter drew Mr. Saito & King Tonga & Masked Superstar Baron Von Raschke beat Jim Garvin Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Att 4719. 3/24/85 St Paul, MN @ Civic Center Handicap Match Jerry Blackwell & Sgt Slaughter no contest King Tonga & Masked Superstar & Mr Saito AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin Nick Bockwinkel beat Greg Gagne Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig & The Crusher beat Paul Ellering & the Road Warriors Jim Brunzell drew Billy Robinson Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Tom Zenk beat Rick Stoansky att: 5,500 We don't have a previous number of note in Denver so I have no clue if that is a good figure or not. This is a shit number for the Civic Center on a show that should have done well. 3/28/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors dq AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Nick Bockwinkel Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke dq Larry Hennig (sub The Crusher) beat King Tonga Mr. Saito beat Curt Hennig Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Tom Zenk beat Brian Jewell Att: 5,628 Winnipeg is still alive and kicking, Jerry or not. 3/31/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Nick Bockwinkel AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke The Crusher no contest King Tonga Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Kendo Nagasaki & Mr. Saito Bob Backlund beat Larry Zbyszko dq AWA Light Heavyweight Champion Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Billy Robinson beat Tom Zenk Att: 9,600 4/5/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Jerry Blackwell beat Mr. Saito Butch Reed beat Tom Zenk Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Att 2054 Finally a Rosemont number and it's a pretty good one for a hot double main event. No Blackwell on the show. Blackwell in the mid-card in SLC which continues to sink. They seem to be trying to ween off of Blackwell v. Adnan and friends on top. 4/10/85 Las Vegas, NV @ Showboat Sports Pavilion Handicap match Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell beat Sheik Adnan & King Tonga & Masked Superstar Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke dq Nick Bockwinkel beat Greg Gagne dq Mr. Saito beat Jim Brunzell Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe 4/11/85 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada @ PNE Coliseum Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito Jerry Blackwell beat King Tonga dq Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke dq Masked Superstar beat Moose Morowski Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Butch Reed beat Ricky Lee Jones Att 1,000 I think this sort of illustrates the idiocy of Verne. This is a thousand mile turnaround, plus dealing with customs, for a new town, with a limited payoff. At this point shit like this is hurting the promotion as much as anything. 4/15/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Jerry Blackwell beat Mr. Saito Butch Reed beat Tom Zenk Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe att: 2,054 SLC is effectively dead at this point. I'd be interested to see the figures for the GB Cage Match and Milwaukee match with Slaughter/Blackwell v. Roadies from Milwaukee that proceeded this match. 4/18/85 Washington DC AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Bob Backlund COR AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Ivan Koloff & Nikita Koloff dq Tonga Kid beat Larry Zbyszko dq The Samoans beat Superstar & King Tonga Handicap match Kamala beat Tom Zenk & Steve O Larry Sharpe beat Sean O'Reilly 4/19/85 East Rutherford, NJ @ Meadowlands AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig AWA Champion Rick Martel beat King Tonga Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke Bob Backlund beat Larry Zbyszko Ugandan Death Match Kamala beat Sgt. Slaughter Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts drew Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Tonga Kid Jim Duggan beat Kendo Nagasaki The Samoans beat Tom Zenk & Steve O Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Bobby Duncum beat Larry Sharpe Att 10,000 East Coast swing. 10k is a good number for a Meadowlands show with essentially foreign talent. Blackwell stayed away from the East Coast swings as a rule. 4/21/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Cage match Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell beat Sheik Adnan & King Tonga & Masked Superstar AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig dq Verne Gagne & Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito Bob Backlund & Brad Rheingans beat Larry Zbyszko & Butch Reed Baron Von Raschke & Buck Zumhofe beat Jim Garvin & Steve Regal Jim Brunzell & Tonga Kid beat Billy Robinson & Bobby Duncum Steve Olsonoski & Tom Zenk beat The Alaskans att: 12,000 This is a really good St. Paul number at this point. Verne helped. Roadies helped. The fans were probably ready for the ultimate Blackwell blowoff against Adnan and this was it. Also a really great match. 4/23/85 Mound, MN Jerry Blackwell & Greg Gagne beat Sheik Adnan & Nick Bockwinkel Butch Reed beat Steve O Jim Brunzell beat Alaskan II Rick Stotsky drew Alaskan I Att 1800 Rare spot show number. Almost definitely a sellout or close to it. It's clear this is a one match show. 4/24/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Cage match Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Jerry Blackwell beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Mr. Saito Jimmy Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke Sgt. Slaughter beat Sheik Adnan dq Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Butch Reed beat Brian Jewel Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts beat Tom Zenk & Rick Stonsky att: 6,636 Really good number for Winnipeg which remains a solid town, probably the most reliable in the territory. That main event would prove to be effective elsewhere. 4/25/85 Gayville, NY Larry Zbyszko beat Bob Backlund COR Samula & Tonga Kid beat Billy Robinson & Bobby Duncum Tonga Kid beat Kendo Nagasaki Larry Sharpe beat Jim ? Att: 800 4/25/85 Brandon, Manitoba, Canada @ Keystone Centre Baron Von Raschke & Jerry Blackwell beat Sheik Adnan & Mr. Saito Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Hennig Ray Stevens beat Ron Ritchie Tom Zenk & Curt Hennig beat The Alaskans Butch Reed beat Rick Stoansky Another idiotic split show day, this time in two smaller towns. I wonder how that main event did in Brandon. 4/27/85 Madison, WI Jerry Blackwell & Larry Hennig no contest AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors AWA Champion Rick Martel beat King Tonga The Crusher & Brad Rheingans beat Masked Superstar & Sheik Adnan Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito beat Jim Brunzell & Curt Hennig Baron Von Raschke & Buck Zumhofe beat Jim Garvin & Steve Regal 4/28/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon Cage match Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell & Verne Gagne beat Masked Superstar & King Tonga & Sheik Adnan Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig drew AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat Jim Brunzell & Greg Gagne & Tonga Kid Dick The Bruiser & The Crusher beat Butch Reed & Larry Zbyszko Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito beat Brad Rheingans & Tom Zenk Baron Von Raschke & Buck Zumhofe beat Jim Garvin & Steve Regal 5/3/85 Denver, CO Cage Match Jerry Blackwell & The Crusher & Sgt. Slaughter beat Masked Superstar & King Tonga & Sheik Adnan AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin Greg Gagne drew Nick Bockwinkel Fabulous Freebirds beat Jim Brunzell & Steve O Butch Reed beat Tom Zenk How often did they run Madison? Interesting that they are running a variation of the successful St. Paul Cage Match around the horn (including a spot show at a high school I didn't list). I'm guessing that Rosemont show did a really good number. 5/5/85 Milwaukee, WI @ Auditorium AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors drew Jerry Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Nick Bockwinkel via pin Butch Reed beat Jim Brunzell via pin King Tonga drew Brad Rheingans Baron Von Raschke & Buck Zumhofe beat Jim Garvin & Steve Regal Att: 3,203 5/8/85 San Francisco, CA @ Cow Palace Cage Match Sgt. Slaughter & Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Cage Match Jerry Blackwell beat Sheik Adnan Baron Von Raschke beat Jim Garvin Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Brad Rheingans beat Butch Reed dq Samula beat Drew Tossell att: 5,000 Weak number for Milwaukee, though not total trash. Really fucking good number for the Cow Palace for a double cage main event. 5/10/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Sgt. Slaughter & Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Cage match Jerry Blackwell beat Sheik Adnan Baron Von Raschke beat Jim Garvin Butch Reed beat Buck Zumhofe Brad Rheingans beat Steve Regal att: 10,455 This double cage main event continues to do good business. This is a MASSIVE number for a town that been dead to the World. 5/23/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Larry Zbyszko Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Butch Reed beat Baron Von Raschke COR The Crusher beat Rick Renslow Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Larry Zbyszko beat Ron Ritchie att: 1,900 Winnipeg finally croaks. Show doesn't look awful, but isn't the strongest. Notable that Roadies, Blackwell and Sarge are all absent. 5/25/85 Chicago Jerry Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter beat Road Warrior Animal & Paul Ellering (sub RW Hawk) AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Buddy Roberts (sub King Tonga) Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts dq Butch Reed no contest The Crusher Nick Bockwinkel beat Brad Rheingans Larry Zbyszko (sub Jim Garvin) beat Baron Von Raschke Ray Stevens beat Buck Zumhofe Steve Regal drew Steve O att: 5,000 Note: Terry Gordy also no showed. Weak number. Probably did not help that they were coming off a massive show from before, but this is still bad. Blackwell and Roadies goes into hibernation. 6/7/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Billy Robinson Sgt. Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko dq Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel No dq match Butch Reed beat Baron Von Raschke Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts beat Brad Rheingans & Steve O Ray Stevens beat Buck Zumhofe Att: 4043 6/8/85 Milwaukee, WI @ Auditorium Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts & Butch Reed beat Dick The Bruiser & The Crusher & Baron Von Raschke when Reed pinned Von Raschke Nick Bockwinkel beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq when Martel tossed Bockwinkel over the top rope Sgt. Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko dq when Zbyszko hit the referee Brad Rheingans drew Steve Regal Ray Stevens beat Steve O via pin Att: 2,848 Yikes 6/9/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Michael Hayes beat AWA Champion Rick Martel No title change. Decision later reversed. Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Greg Gagne & Steve Olsonoski (sub Jim Brunzell) Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Sgt. Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko dq Baron Von Raschke & Brad Rheingans & Buck Zumhofe beat Bobby Duncum & Billy Robinson & Steve Regal Butch Reed beat Dave Wagner att: 1,500 6/13/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts beat The Crusher & Baron Von Raschke Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig drew Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens Brad Rheingans beat Steve Regal Handicap match Butch Reed beat Rick Renslow & Brian Jewel Larry Zbyszko beat Steve O Buck Zumhofe beat Dave Wagner att: 1,864 This is holy shit bad, Summer or not. Absence of Roadies, Blackwell is hurting every fucking town. Meanwhile Verne is still doing dumb shit like running Asbury Park. 6/21/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon Michael Hayes beat AWA Champion Rick Martel Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts & Butch Reed beat Dick The Bruiser & The Crusher & Baron Von Raschke Sgt. Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko to win Americas title Greg Gagne drew Nick Bockwinkel Ray Stevens beat Steve O Brad Rheingans drew Billy Robinson att: 4,000 6/22/85 East Rutherford, NJ @ Meadowlands Boot Camp Cage match Sgt. Slaughter beat Kamala AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Nick Bockwinkel Wahoo McDaniel beat Larry Zbyszko dq Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat Curt Hennig & Greg Gagne & Jim Duggan Butch Reed beat Baron Von Raschke Bobby Duncum beat Steve O Ray Stevens beat Buck Zumhofe Little Coco & Little Mr. T beat Johnny Rebel & Lord Littlebrook No number on the Meadlowlands but you can't blame them for running that show given the relative success of the previous show. Rosemont number is shit, down another thousand from the last figure we have there. 6/30/85 Milwaukee, WI @ Auditorium Dick The Bruiser & The Crusher beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy dq Butch Reed beat Baron Von Raschke Bob Backlund drew Larry Zbyszko Ray Stevens beat Buck Zumhofe Billy Robinson beat Steve O Brad Rheingans beat Rick Gantner Att: 2200 Milwaukee is quarter full and nearing death. Birds v. Old Men isn't moving anywhere, and Sarge is missing some of these shows too which makes the three hottest acts in the AWA MIA 7/10/85 Las Vegas, NV @ Showboat Sports Pavilion Sgt. Slaughter won battle royal Sgt. Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko dq Fabulous Freebirds beat Curt Hennig & Greg Gagne Nick Bockwinkel beat Baron Von Raschke Billy Robinson beat Bob Backlund Brad Rheingans drew Ray Stevens att: 1500 7/11/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne drew Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens Fabulous Freebirds Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Bob Backlund beat Larry Zbyszko Brad Rheingans beat Buddy Roberts Boris Zhukov beat Baron Von Raschke Att: 1400 Vegas number is probably not bad, but half capacity at best in the Showboat. SLC is practically in the grave and will need something major to come out of it's funk. 7/14/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens dq AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Michael Hayes dq AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Bob Backlund beat Larry Zbyszko Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat Steve O & Buck Zumhofe Boris Zhukov beat Baron Von Raschke Cowboy Lang & Little Coco beat Little Tokyo & Lord Littlebrook Att 2500 Roadies come black, Blackwell doesn't, number is still utter dog shit. Things may not be salvageable at this point. Expanding into other markets and having your three biggest acts off key shows even during your "down" period historically is awful business on Verne's part. 7/18/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Larry Zbyszko Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat The Crusher & Larry Hennig & Baron Von Raschke Sleeper vs Sleeper Match Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel reverse decision Boris Zhukov beat Buck Zumhofe Ray Stevens beat Brian Jewell (sub Curt Hennig) Cowboy Lang & Little Coco beat Lord Littlebrook & Little Tokyo att: 3,224 7/19/85 East Rutherford, NJ @ Meadowlands AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Nick Bockwinkel Sgt. Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko Joyce Grable won a women’s battle royal Baron Von Raschke drew Billy Robinson Ray Stevens beat Greg Gagne dq Buck Zumhofe drew Buddy Roberts Bob Backlund beat Larry Sharpe Boris Zhukov beat Sean O'Reilly Att: 4500 7/20/85 Chicago, IL AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Michael Hayes Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne dq Fabulous Freebirds Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat The Crusher & Buck Zumhofe Billy Robinson beat Baron Von Raschke Boris Zhukov beat Steve O Cowboy Lang & Little Coco beat Lord Littlebrook & Little Tokyo Bill Irwin beat Drew Tossell Att: 3000 Winnipeg is up some but still weak. Meadowlands is not worth it at that point and it's notable that Roadies v. Birds did very little business. Chicago slides another thousand. Paging Dr. Blackwell? 8/8/85 Las Vegas, NV @ Riviera Hotel AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Michael Hayes dq Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens Boris Zhukov beat Steve O Terry Gordy beat Baron Von Raschke Larry Zbyszko beat Buck Zumhofe Steve O drew Billy Robinson Att 3000 8/9/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Boot Camp Match Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne beat Larry Zbyszko & Nick Bockwinkel AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Michael Hayes Terry Gordy beat Baron Von Raschke Boris Zhukov beat Steve O Buck Zumhofe beat Ray Stevens dq Steve O drew Billy Robinson att: 7753 Ah, the Riveria Hotel! That's a good number for Vegas and SLC is up! Semi-shocking given how dead it had been. 8/11/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors no contest Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Curt Hennig & Rick Martel beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy Nick Bockwinkel beat Greg Gagne Sgt Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko Kabuki beat Chris Adams dq Brad Rheingans beat Boris Zhukov dq Buck Zumhofe beat Iron Duke Jim Garvin beat Kevin Kelly Tom Zenk beat Rick Renslow 8/16/85 East Rutherford, NJ @ Meadowlands Sgt. Slaughter beat NWA Champion Ric Flair dq Paul Ellering & Road Warriors beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts dq AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Larry Zbyszko Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Brad Rheingans beat Boris Zhukov dq Baron Von Raschke beat Davey G Att: 7,000 No number for St. Paul which is too bad. Meadowlands number is respectable enough and up, but you still have to wonder why they are running there and this should have done better with two title matches, Roadies v. Birds and Flair on the show. 8/18/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon Boot Camp match Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens NWA Champion Ric Flair beat Billy Robinson Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat Rick Martel & Jerry Blackwell & Larry Hennig dq Brad Rheingans beat Boris Zhukov dq Bill Irwin beat Baron Von Raschke Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Curt Hennig drew Larry Zbyszko Scott Irwin beat Rob Rechsteiner Att: 6000 This boot camp match has popped a few towns to Sarge's credit. This isn't a good number for Chicago really, but considering where it was this is progress. This is also the return of Blackwell and Flair is on the show. 8/19/85 Fairbanks, AK Sgt. Slaughter beat Nick Bockwinkel Jerry Blackwell & Greg Gagne beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts Larry Zbyzsko beat Baron Von Raschke Curt Hennig beat Billy Robinson Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Att: 375 8/20/85 Anchorage, AK Sgt. Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko dq Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts Jerry Blackwell beat Terry Gordy Nick Bockwinkel beat Baron Von Raschke Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal dq Att: 2250. 8/21/85 Kenai, AK Jerry Blackwell & Buck Zumhofe beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts Terry Gordy beat Baron Von Raschke Greg Gagne beat Larry Zbyszko dq Steve Regal beat Curt Hennig Billy Robinson beat Drew Tossell Att: 325 Insane Verne strikes again. A part of me thinks it is almost impressive that they did any numbers in Alaska at all, but why the fuck were they even running there??? 8/21/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Holy Cross School TV Taping Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat Rob Rechsteiner & Monty Black Tom Zenk drew Nick Bockwinkel Scott Hall beat Man Mountain Mike Moore Boris Zhukov beat Chris Basset Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat Brian Jewel & Randy Rose Tom Zenk beat Rob Rechsteiner Rick Martel beat Man Mountain Mike Scott Hall beat Bob Adams Boris Zhukov beat Monty Black Nick Bockwinkel beat Tom Lucas Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat T-Bone Brown & Chris Basset Tom Zenk beat Brian Jewel Scott Hall beat Rob Rechsteiner Boris Zhukov beat Brian Jewel 8/22/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Boris Zhukov beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Tom Zenk & Larry Hennig & Jerry Blackwell beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts Baron Von Raschke beat Nick Bockwinkel COR Tom Zenk beat Steve Regal Bulldog Bob Brown beat Man Mountain Mike Moore Scott Hall drew Larry Zbyszko Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat Rob Rechsteiner & Buck Zumhofe Bulldog Bob Brown beat Brian Jewel Att: 4,208 More stupidity as Verne runs tv the day before in the same town. This is an averagish number for Winnipeg, but why the fuck would he essentially double book the same town?? 8/26/85 Boston, MA AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin AWA Champion Rick Martel drew Nick Bockwinkel Sgt. Slaughter beat Boris Zhukov Bob Backlund beat Larry Zbyszko dq Greg Gagne beat Steve Regal Brad Rheingans beat Billy Robinson Verne decides to try out Boston. God knows why. Blackwell is working on top on most shows without figures during this period. 9/8/85 St. Paul, MN ESPN TV Taping AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Kamala dq Terry Gordy beat Jerry Blackwell dq Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens & Larry Zbyszko Buck Zumhofe beat Sgt. Slaughter dq Baron Von Raschke beat Bill Irwin Larry Hennig drew Scott Irwin Larry Clark beat Stan Hansen dq Jerry Oski & Brad Rheingans drew Wild Bill & Scott Hog Irwin Curt Hennig & Greg Gagne beat Jim Garvin & Steve Regal dq Buck Zumhofe drew Buddy Roberts Stan Hansen beat Paul Garner Billy Robinson beat Randy Barber att: 4,000 Was this at the Civic Center? I'm guessing not. 9/14/85 Milwaukee, WI Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne beat Larry Zbyszko & Nick Bockwinkel dq AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Michael Hayes Terry Gordy beat Jerry Blackwell dq Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat Baron Von Raschke & Curt Hennig att: 3,672 Milwaukee trending up a bit, though this is still only a bit over half full and less than what you need. 9/17/85 Anchorage, AK Sgt. Slaughter beat Michael Hayes dq Boris Zhukov beat Brad Rheingans Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel & Larry Zbyszko Curt Hennig drew Bill Irwin Scott Irwin beat Drew Tossel Att: 1,800 9/18/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Brad Rheingans & Baron Von Raschke beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy dq Magnum TA beat Ivan Koloff Baron Von Raschke beat Jim Garvin dq Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Brad Rheingans beat Buddy Roberts COR Jerry Oski beat Billy Robinson dq More WTF? Split crewish stuff from Verne. 9/19/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Wally Karbo Tribute Card AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Boris Zhukov dq Jerry Blackwell beat Michael Hayes Tom Zenk & Curt Hennig beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Jim Garvin beat Buck Zumhofe Baron Von Raschke beat Buddy Roberts Buddy Lane beat Steve Regal Att: 3,600 Below average, but this is above the abyssmal number from the Summer. Probably would have been better - but Verne did tv at the high school the night before. At least it wasn't a huge tv like the previous one, but still. Blackwell continues to main event in the majority of shows around the loop. 9/28/85 Chicago, IL @ Comiskey Park NWA Champion Ric Flair beat Magnum TA Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors to win title (Decision quickly reversed by video replay) Stan Hansen no contest AWA Champion Rick Martel Kerry Von Erich beat Jimmy Garvin Ivan Koloff & Nikita Koloff & Khrusher Khrushchev beat Dick The Bruiser & The Crusher & Baron Von Raschke Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens & Larry Zbyszko Sgt Slaughter beat Boris Zhukov dq Jumbo Tsuruta & Giant Baba & Genichiro Tenyru beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin & Harley Race Bodyslam match Jerry Blackwell beat Kamala Mil Mascaras beat Buddy Roberts Sherri Martel beat Candi Divine to win the AWA Women's title Steve Regal beat Brad Rheingans att: 20,347 AWA loads things up and goes balls out. Blackwell v. Kamala is deep is mid-card and feels like an after thought. This is a good number, but you almost feel like it could have been a lot better. 9/29/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Jim Garvin & Steve Regal beat Road Warriors to win AWA tag title AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jumbo Tsuruta Handicap Match Sgt. Slaughter beat Boris Zhukov & Chris Markoff Jerry Blackwell & Little Mr. T beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts Shohei Giant Baba & Genichiro Tenyru no contest Stan Hansen & Larry Zbyszko Scott Hall beat Drew Tossel Buck Zumhofe beat Rick Renslow att: 2,000 Terrible, but this is a fucking stupid ass line up, almost designed to fail. 10/4/85 Los Angeles, CA Stan Hansen won battle royal Sgt. Slaughter drew Boris Zhukov Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Baron Von Raschke & Jerry Blackwell Greg Gagne beat Jim Garvin Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts beat Curt Hennig & Scott Hall Larry Zbyszko beat Buck Zumhofe Att: 2300 10/5/85 Milwaukee, WI Road Warriors beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin dq Jerry Blackwell & Rick Martel & Little Mr. T beat Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts & Jim Garvin Handicap match Stan Hansen beat Buck Zumhofe & Kevin Kelly Larry Zbyszko beat Baron Von Raschke Jerry Oski beat Kamala dq Scott Hall beat Kevin Kelly Att: 2432 Why are they moving into LA?? Milwaukee drops significantly off of a dogshit line up. 10/15/85 Anchorage, AK Michael Hayes beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Candi Devine beat Sherri Martel Scott Hall drew Larry Zbyszko Baron Von Raschke beat Scott Irwin Att: 1400 10/15/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Stan Hansen won battle royal Greg Gagne drew Nick Bockwinkel 20:00 Brad Rheingans beat Boris Zhukov Stan Hansen beat Kevin Kelly Steve Regal beat Jerry Oski Jim Garvin beat Buck Zumhofe att: 3,520 Blackwell on neither show, but Verne stupidly splits crews for no clear reward. Was Anchorage ever going to make him real money? Fuck no. Stupid. They are running Battle Royals in the spot shows at this point 10/17/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Mad Dog Vachon & Nick Bockwinkel beat Boris Zhukov & Chris Markoff Handicap match Stan Hansen beat Brian Jewell & Ed Wilson Larry Zbyszko beat Baron Von Raschke Jim Garvin beat Stan Lane Scott Hall beat Steve Regal Sherri Martel beat Candi Devine to win AWA Women's Title Kelly Kiniski beat Iron Duke att: 3,528 Winnipeg still below what it should be with a weak line up and tv the day before in town. 10/27/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center AWA Champion Rick Martel no contest Stan Hansen Wahoo McDaniel & Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens & Larry Zbyszko Michael Hayes beat Jerry Blackwell Greg Gagne beat Jim Garvin Bill Irwin beat Kevin Kelly Greg Boyd drew Boris Zhukov Leon White beat Scott Irwin att: 3,000 11/2/85 Milwaukee, WI 21 person battle royal opened card to determine order Scott Hall beat Jim Garvin to win battle royal Jerry Blackwell beat Michael Hayes dq Stan Hansen beat Curt Hennig forfeit Greg Gagne drew Larry Zbyszko Larry Hennig beat Boris Zhukov Nick Bockwinkel beat Bill Irwin Leon White beat Scott Irwin dq Greg Boyd beat Steve Regal Jerry America drew Rob Rechsteiner Kelly Kiniksi beat Jerry Oski Att 4268 St. Paul is starting to feel like a "why bother? and the card looks weak. Milwaukee does a respectable number off of a battle royal. 11/3/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon Road Warrior Animal won battle royal Road Warriors beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts Sgt. Slaughter beat Bill Irwin Curt Hennig & Greg Gagne & Scott Hall beat Jim Garvin & Steve Regal & Larry Zbyszko Handicap match Stan Hansen beat Jerry O & Rob Rechsteiner Leon White beat Scott Irwin dq att: 9,500 Battle Royal pulls a solid number in IL. 11/13/85 Brandon, Manitoba, Canada @ Keystone Centre Jerry Blackwell won a 25 man battle royal Jerry Blackwell beat Boris Zhukov dq Scott Hall beat Larry Zbyszko dq Kelly Kiniski beat Bob Adams Curt Hennig beat Rick Renslow Jim Garvin & Steve Regal beat Kevin Kelly & Buddy Lane 11/14/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Cage Match AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Boris Zhukov Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko dq Jerry Blackwell & Kelly Kiniski beat Buddy Roberts & Ray Stevens dq Stan Hansen beat Kevin Kelly Ray Stevens beat Buddy Lane Att 6,012 11/15/85 Denver, CO Road Warriors drew Fabulous Freebirds AWA Champion Rick Martel drew Stan Hansen AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal beat Fabulous Ones Att 7500 Hot run. That's the best figure I've ever seen from Denver. Martel v. Zhukov blow off does well. I would bet Brandon did a good number off the battle royal. 11/18/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Road Warriors no contest Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy Buddy Roberts beat Paul Ellering AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal beat Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig Scott Hall beat Larry Zbyszko dq Leon White drew Scott Irwin Att: 9849. Crazy SLC spikes again. 12/1/85 Chicago, IL Road Warriors beat AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal dq AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Terry Gordy Strap Match Jerry Blackwell beat Michael Hayes Paul Ellering drew Buddy Roberts Handicap match Sgt. Slaughter beat Boris Zhukov & Chris Markoff Larry Zbyszko beat Kevin Kelly Scott Hall beat Bill Irwin Leon White beat Scott Irwin dq att: 8,000 Staying respectable in Chicago. Return of Roadies and Blackwell has clearly helped from the death that was the Summer, but the split crews, needless expansion, double booking in towns, et did nothing but help Vince's putsch. 12/7/85 Milwaukee, WI Strap match Jerry Blackwell beat Michael Hayes AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal beat Fabulous Freebirds Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts Larry Hennig beat Boris Zhukov dq Buck Zumhofe beat Mongolian Stomper dq Scott Hall drew Scott Irwin Kelly Kiniski beat Kevin Kelly Att 2648 Bad number for an unappealing show. The Birds are clearly a package deal and people don't give a shit about Hayes v. Blackwell. 12/12/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena $100,000 Battle royal Road Warriors beat Boris Zhukov & Chris Markoff Scott Hall beat Jimmy Garvin Stan Hansen beat Man Mountain Mike Mongolian Stomper beat Kevin Kelly Jerry Blackwell vs Kelly Kiniski The Alaskans I & II vs Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Larry Zbyszko beat Buck Zumhofe Att: 5,928 Battle Royal PLUS they didn't foolishly run tv the day before! 12/16/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Taped Fist Match Road Warriors & Paul Ellering beat Buddy Roberts & Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe & Scott Hall Leon White beat Bill Irwin dq Larry Zbyszko beat Kevin Kelly Mongolian Stomper beat Kelly Kiniski Att 1496 God damn what a crazy fucking town. This is a weak as fuck lineup though. 12/25/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Stan Hansen dq Road Warriors no contest AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko Mongolian Stomper & Nord The Barbarian & Boris Zhukov beat Scott Hall & Curt Hennig & Jerry Blackwell Baron Von Raschke beat Scott Irwin dq Marty Jannetty beat Kelly Kiniski Cowboy Lang & Little Mr. T beat Little Tokyo & Lord Littlebrook Bill Irwin beat Kevin Kelly Sherri Martel beat Debbie Combs Att: 7000+ Poor number for Christmas night in St. Paul on a very poor line up. I don't think it's a reach to say that if they had found someone of note to feud with Blackwell they could have done business during this period. He really feels like he's being misused. Same with the Roadies. 12/29/85 Milwaukee, WI Cage match Jerry Blackwell beat Michael Hayes AWA Tag Team Champions Jimmy Garvin & Steve Regal beat Scott Hall & Curt Hennig dq Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko Kamala beat Baron Von Raschke Little Mr. T beat Lord Littlebrook Mongolian Stomper beat Eric Ferris Leon White beat Marty Jannetty att: 3,940 This is a borderline "average" match for Milwaukee but I almost feel like giving it a notch in the good column, since this lacked a World title match or the Roadies to bolster the card. Martel dropped to Hansen in NJ this day as well at a PWUSA show. 85 is an interesting year. No doubt Vince was hurting them, but Verne did a shit ton to hurt himself. Business was actually fairly strong up until the Roadies and Blackwell departed and the use of Sarge was scaled back. Summer or not that clearly had a hugely adverse effect on the companies drawing power. Blackwell and the Roadies were clearly misused for big chunks of the year and were probably the biggest draws in the company, with Sarge in third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 So what would you say about Martel? Maybe I'm misinterpreting but it seems like the conclusion is he wasn't much of a draw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I think Martel was a draw in certain situations. He clearly did well in Canada. The AWA was better when Martel was on top than people think, but he got a bunch of shitty challengers, and I don't think there was ever a point when he was the top babyface draw in the company. Would love to get some Montreal attendance figures with Martel though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 And for the fuck of it, 86: 1/10/86 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon Cage match Road Warriors & Jerry Blackwell beat Fabulous Freebirds Terry Gordy & Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts Sgt. Slaughter beat AWA Champion Stan Hansen dq AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal beat Curt Hennig & Scott Hall Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko dq Boris Zhukov & Barbarian beat Marty Jannetty & Earthquake Ferris Scott Irwin beat Baron Von Raschke Bill Irwin beat Kelly Kiniski Att: 13,000 Massive number for the AWA of this period, in some ways the last real impressive figure as Wrestlerock ultimately feels like it should have done far better than it did. The double main here would have been extremely hot. 1/12/86 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Sgt. Slaughter beat AWA Champion Stan Hansen dq Road Warriors beat Mongolian Stomper & Nord The Barbarian dq AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal beat Curt Hennig & Scott Hall Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko Curt Hennig beat Earthquake Ferris Marty Jannetty drew Steve Regal Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat Baron Von Raschke & Buck Zumhofe att: 2,000 1/16/86 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Nick Bockwinkel no contest NWA Champion Ric Flair Non Title Road Warriors beat AWA Tag Team Champions Steve Regal & Jim Garvin AWA Champion Stan Hansen beat Rick Martel Jerry Blackwell beat Boris Zhukov Mongolian Stomper & Nord the Barbarian beat the Alaskans Scott Hall beat Earthquake Ferris Buddy Lane beat Brian Jewel Candi Devine beat Sherri Martel to win AWA ladies title att: 6,800 1/17/86 Denver, CO Road Warriors no contest AWA Tag Team Champions Steve Regal & Jim Garvin Jerry Blackwell beat AWA Champion Stan Hansen dq Mongolian Stomper & Boris Zhukov & Barbarian beat Curt Hennig & Scott Hall & Buck Zumhofe Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko Scott Irwin beat Baron Von Raschke Leon White beat Bill Irwin Even with a shit card the degree to which St. Paul has died is really sad and almost hard to believe. Blackwell not being on the show had to have hurt as at this point they really needed all of their stars to draw a big gate. The Winnipeg number is good, but that is a really loaded show. The Denver show interest me because it is a rare Blackwell World Title shot. Shockingly low number of those over the years for a guy who was obviously a draw and a huge piece of puzzle almost from the moment he debuted. 1/30/86 Peoria, IL Curt Hennig won a Battle Royal Scott Hall & Larry Hennig beat Sheik Adnan & Mongolian Stomper Jerry Blackwell & Leon White beat Nord the Barbarian & Boris Zhukov Scott Hall beat Larry Zbyszko dq Mongolian Stomper beat Curt Hennig Marty Jannetty beat Doug Somers Note: First AWA card in Peoria since November 1980 1/30/86 San Francisco, CA Rick Martel vs Jimmy Garvin Blackwell being paired off against Zhukov in a feud tells you a lot about the state of the AWA. The fact that Verne insisted on doing a split crew still at this point is nuts. The fact that he did it in a town he hadn't run in 6 years and the worst town on his loop is fucking batshit crazy on a different level. 2/4/86 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace AWA Champion Stan Hansen beat David Sammartino Curt Hennig & Marty Jannetty beat Nord The Barbarian & Sheik Adnan Jerry Blackwell beat Boris Zhukov Leon White beat Larry Zbyszko dq Scott Hall beat Doug Somers Another show that illustrates the weakness of these cards. You almost feel like Blackwell should have been turned heel and given the belt as it may have been something fresh if nothing else. 2/9/86 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Road Warriors & Paul Ellering beat Mongolian Stomper & Boris Zhukov & Barbarian dq No dq match AWA Champion Stan Hansen beat Sgt. Slaughter COR AWA Tag Team Champions Scott Hall & Curt Hennig beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin dq Jerry Blackwell beat Earthquake Ferris (sub King Kong Brody) dq Marty Jannetty beat Doug Somers Brad Rheingans beat Earthquake Ferris Colonel DeBeers beat Buck Zumhofe Colonel DeBeers beat Rick Renslow Marty Jannetty beat Jim Mitchell att: 2,784 Dog shit card, aside from Hansen v. Sarge which is not really drawing at all. Sadly this is actually UP from the last St. Paul show. 2/16/86 Milwaukee, WI AWA Tag Team Champions Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Mongolian Stomper & Nord The Barbarian AWA Champion Stan Hansen beat Leon White Greg Gagne beat Scott Irwin dq Boris Zhukov beat Brad Rheingans COR Colonel DeBeers beat Frankie DeFalco Marty Jannetty beat Bill Irwin att: 1,500 Milwaukee is a quarter full for an extremely weak card with no Blackwell or Sarge. 2/23/86 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon Sgt. Slaughter no contest AWA Champion Stan Hansen Road Warriors beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Curt Hennig & Scott Hall & Brad Rheingans beat Boris Zhukov & Mongolian Stomper & Nord The Barbarian No dq Match Larry Zbyszko beat Nick Bockwinkel Midnight Rockers beat The Alaskans Colonel DeBeers beat Buck Zumhofe Leon White beat Doug Somers att: 7,000 This is probably only about 40% full in the Rosemont but I feel like it has to be seen as a success just because it's probably a show that made money. Blackwell is now MIA 3/9/86 St. Paul, MN Bunkhouse Match Sgt. Slaughter beat AWA Champion Stan Hansen COR Road Warriors beat Boris Zhukov & Nord the Barbarian Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko Brad Rheingans beat King Kong Brody as the Masked Maruader dq Buddy Rose beat Scott Hall dq Curt Hennig drew Colonel DeBeers Midnight Rockers beat Alaskans att: 5,000 Another bad number that is "good for 86" 3/15/86 Salt Lake City, UT Jerry Blackwell no contest AWA Champion Stan Hansen Larry Zbyszko beat Nick Bockwinkel dq Non Title Boris Zhukov & Nord the Barbarian beat AWA Tag Team Champions Curt Hennig & Scott Hall Sgt. Slaughter beat Sheik Adnan COR Brad Rheingans beat Doug Somers Marty Jannetty beat Colonel DeBeers dq Shawn Michaels drew Buddy Rose att: 8,600 Jerry gets a rare AWA title shot in SLC on a show that doesn't have much else and draws a really good figure. I know his health was an issue at that point but again I really feel like Blackwell with the belt should have been considered at this point. 3/16/86 Denver, CO Non Title Jerry Blackwell beat AWA Champion Stan Hansen Non Title Boris Zhukov & Nord The Barbarian beat AWA Tag Team Champions Curt Hennig & Scott Hall Larry Zbyszko beat Nick Bockwinkel dq Brad Rheingans beat Sheik Adnan COR Midnight Rockers drew Buddy Rose & Colonel DeBeers Leon White beat Doug Somers Notable that this got a rematch in Denver. Leads me to believe the first show may have done a decent number. Blackwell vanishes again. 4/9/86 Niagara Falls, NY @ International Civic Center Road Warriors beat Ivan Koloff & Nikita Koloff dq Sgt Slaughter & Scott Hall & The Destroyer (sub Curt Hennig) beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin & The Barbarian COR Larry Zbyszko beat Nick Bockwinkel dq Rick Martel beat Boris Zhukov King Kong Brody beat Earthquake Ferris (sub Jerry Blackwell) Colonel DeBeers beat Buck Zumhofe Doug Somers beat Mark Ragin att: 4,000 Niagara must have been hard up for wrestling as that's a better number than you would guess. 4/20/86 Minneapolis, MN @ Hubert H Humphrey Metrodome Wrestle Rock Cage Match Road Warriors beat Michael Hayes & Jimmy Garvin Cage Match Verne Gagne beat Sheik Adnan Greg Gagne & Jimmy Snuka beat King Kong Brody & Nord the Barbarian Nick Bockwinkel beat AWA Champion Stan Hansen dq Scott LeDeoux beat Larry Zbyszko dq AWA Tag Team Champions Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Sherri Martel won a 10 woman Battle Royal Rick Martel no contest Harley Race Shohei Baba beat Bulldog Bob Brown Barry Windham & Mike Rotundo beat Fabulous Ones Tiger Mask (Misawa) beat Buck Zumhofe Buddy Rose & Doug Somers beat Midnight Rockers Colonel DeBeers beat Wahoo McDaniel dq Brad Rheingans beat Boris Zhukov Plus a midget tag team match att: 22,000 4/24/86 Rockford, IL @ Boylan High School Steel Cage Match Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko AWA Tag Team Champions Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Shawn Michaels beat Colonel DeBeers dq Brad Rheingans beat Earthquake Ferris Marty Jannetty beat Calypso Jim att: 600 This is telling. They load up Wrestlerock and draw a good, albeit somewhat disappointing figure. The next show they can't sell out a high school gym for a Cage Match. Also worth noting that Rose/Somers and Midnight Rockers are starting to creep up the cards. Rosemont is down to 1800 for the next show without Blackwell or Sarge. 5/30/86 Oakland, CA Jerry Blackwell won battle royal Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko Non Title Midnight Rockers beat AWA TagTeam Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Curt Hennig beat Colonel DeBeers dq Scott Hall beat Boris Zhukov Nord The Barbarian beat Steve Pardee att: 1,500 Rose and Somers have won the tag titles. Battle Royal with Jerry returning to the company does a Bay Areaish mediocre number. 5/31/86 Las Vegas, NV TV Taping Curt Hennig (sub Jerry Blackwell) drew AWA Champion Stan Hansen Nord The Barbarian & Boris Zhukov beat Midnight Rockers Taped Fist Match Scott LeDoux beat Larry Zbyszko dq Nick Bockwinkel & Brad Rheingans & Steve Pardee beat Colonel DeBeers & Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Midnight Rockers beat Don Fargo & El Siberiano Nord The Barbarian beat Jesse Hernandez Colonel DeBeers beat Dennis Stamp Curt Hennig beat Jay York Marty Jannetty beat Alex Knight Nord The Barbarian & Boris Zhukov beat Gus Torres & Buddy Allen Brad Rheingans beat Don Fargo Larry Zbyszko beat Gus Torres If memory serves this is the angle with Blackwell getting beaten senseless by Hansen pre-match when he tries to back out on Doctors orders. Hennig makes the save and has as tremendously great brawl that is another theoretical number one contender for the pending AWA Set. 6/8/86 Chicago, IL @ UIC Pavilion Nick Bockwinkel no contest AWA Champion Stan Hansen Scott LeDoux beat Larry Zbyszko Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Colonel DeBeers & Boris Zhukov Sherri Martel beat Princess Jasmine Marty Jannetty beat Doug Somers Shawn Michaels beat Buddy Rose dq Madd Maxx & Super Maxx beat Brad Rheingans & Steve O Alan West drew Earthquake Ferris att: 1,700 Notice this ain't in the Rosemont. 6/15/86 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Nord The Barbarian & Boris Zhukov beat Jerry Blackwell & Nick Bockwinkel Greg Gagne & Scott LeDoux beat Larry Zbyszko & Mr. Go dq Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Colonel DeBeers & Boriz Zhukov dq Midnight Rockers beat Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Brad Rheingans & Alan West drew Madd Maxx & Super Maxx att: 1,700 Terrible card. Jerry returns to the Twin Cities but he literally has no one to work against. I really think Jerry v. Bock could have done some business. Not great given the circumstances, but better than this. 6/22/86 Green Bay, WI @ Brown County Veteran's Arena Cage Match AWA Champion Stan Hansen beat Nick Bockwinkel via pin Ray Stevens & Greg Gagne & Verne Gagne beat Boris Zukhov & Nord The Barbarian & Sheik Adnan when Greg pinned Zhukov Jerry Blackwell beat Boris Zukhov (sub King Kong Brody) COR AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers beat Midnight Rockers when Somers pinned Shawn Michaels Curt Hennig drew Larry Zbyszko Colonel DeBeers beat Scott Hall dq Taped Fist Match Scott LeDoux beat The Mysterious Mr. Go dq Sherri Martel beat Princess Jasmine via pin Wish we had a number here. For 86 AWA this is a loaded show. 6/27/86 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace AWA Champion Stan Hansen beat Nick Bockwinkel NWA Champion Ric Flair beat Curt Hennig Midnight Rockers beat AWA Tag Team champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers dq Scott LeDoux no contest Larry Zbyszko Ali Kahn beat Jerry Blackwell Greg Gagne & Jimmy Snuka beat Boris Zhukov & Nord The Barbarian Colonel DeBeers beat Brad Rheingans Candi Devine beat Sherri Martel att: 11,557 SLC attendance remains the hardest to figure out. This is the biggest number they have EVER done in that building. Flair has spiked them some in other areas but this is by FAR the biggest spike. On the other hand this show does have three title matches. Still this is an insane number for the AWA from this period even if it is a "super show" 6/28/86 Oakland, CA Jerry Blackwell beat AWA Champion Stan Hansen dq Nord The Barbarian beat Nick Bockwinkel Curt Hennig & Midnight Rockers beat Buddy Rose & Doug Somers & Alexis Smirnoff Scott LeDoux no contest Larry Zbyszko Colonel DeBeers beat Brad Rheingans (sub Scott Hall) Jimmy Snuka beat Jay York Sherri Martel beat Candi Devine to win AWA ladies title Earthquake Ferris beat Ali Kahn att: 1,500 Notable because Jerry gets a shot. Sadly this isn't a terrible number for the Bay Area, just not a good one either. 7/19/86 Chicago, IL @ UIC Pavilion Non Title Nord the Barbarian beat AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel Jerry Blackwell beat Larry Zbyszko dq Colonel DeBeers beat Scott Hall COR Midnight Rockers beat Doug Somers & Mr. Go (sub Buddy Rose) Madd Maxx & Super Maxx beat Alan West & Rick Gantner Ali Khan beat Curt Hennig dq Brad Rheingans drew Boris Zhukov Earthquake Ferris beat Jake Milliman att: 1500 Really thin card. The thing is Blackwell v. Bock was a FRESH MATCH, with two guys that had a name. No clue why they didn't go that route. 8/12/86 Asbury Park, NJ AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers beat Midnight Rockers Non Title Larry Zbyszko beat AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel Colonel DeBeers beat Scott Hall dq Jimmy Snuka beat Boris Zhukov Nord The Barbarian beat Dennis Mitchell Joe Savoldi beat Pink Menace 8/16/86 Pittsburgh, PA AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Nord The Barbarian dq Non Title Midnight Rockers beat AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Colonel DeBeers beat Scott Hall dq Jimmy Snuka beat Larry Zbyszko att: 587 8/17/86 Monogahela, PA afternoon Midnight Rockers beat Nord The Barbarian & Boris Zhukov Jimmy Snuka beat Buddy Rose Scott Hall beat Doug Somers Colonel DeBeers beat Tim Patterson Last Warrior beat Tyree Pride att: 592 8/17/86 Steubenville, OH evening AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Boris Zhukov Midnight Rockers beat AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Jimmy Snuka beat Barbarian dq Scott Hall beat Larry Zbyszko dq Colonel DeBeers beat Tim Patterson Last Warrior beat Tyree Pride att: 650 An East Coast swing capped off by double duty? Why Verne, Why? 8/28/86 San Jose, CA att: 700 8/29/86 Stockton, CA att: 500 8/30/86 Las Vegas, NV Midnight Rockers beat AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Boris Zhukov Scott Hall dcor Colonel DeBeers Shohei Giant Baba & Wajima beat ?? att: 1,500 Why is he running new towns in California of all places? WTF? Wajima! 9/7/86 Chicago, IL Midnight Rockers beat AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers to win title. Decision later reversed as the wrong man (Somers) was pinned Curt Hennig (sub Nord The Barbarian) beat Nick Bockwinkel to win AWA Title when Larry Zbyszko hit Bockwinkel with nunchakus Later announced, Curt returned the AWA Title to Bockwinkel because Hennig could not accept winning it in an unjust manner. Greg Gagne & Jerry Blackwell & Jimmy Snuka beat Sheik Adnan & Ali Khan & Boris Zhukov Scott Hall beat Colonel DeBeers Curt Hennig dcor Larry Zbyszko Earthquake Ferris beat Tom Stone Stoney Burke beat Rick Gantner att: 1,000 And Chicago is officially dead for good as an AWA town of any value. 9/13/86 Oakland, CA @ Coliseum AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers beat Curt Hennig & Scott Hall dq AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Sheik Adnan (sub Nord The Barbarian) Jimmy Snuka beat Colonel DeBeers COR Midnight Rockers beat Ali Kahn & Boris Zhukov Larry Zbyszko beat Greg Gagne dq Earthquake Ferris drew Mr. Go att: 1,374 9/14/86 Antioch, CA Earthquake Ferris & Ray Stevens beat AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Jimmy Snuka beat Boris Zhukov Midnight Rockers beat Larry Zbyszko & Ninja Colonel DeBeers beat Scott Hall dq Curt Hennig beat Sheik Adnan COR att: 1,534 Sad when this is UP from he last Cali tour. St. Paul draws less than 1500 and they run a show in Waltman Mass days later... Rockers v. Rose/Somers are headlining a lot which makes sense because at least the matches are exciting but the lack of talent, the booking decisions, et. are almost stunningly awful at this point. 10/18/86 Las Vegas, NV Curt Hennig won a battle royal Jimmy Snuka beat Colonel DeBeers dq Marty Jannetty ddq Buddy Rose Earthquake Ferris beat Ken Timbs COR Alexis Smirnoff & Yuri Gordienko beat Curt Hennig & Steve O Curt Hennig beat Alex Knight att: 3,000 sellout 10/19/86 St. Paul, MN Curt Hennig won battle royal Non Title Larry Zbyszko beat AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel Midnight Rockers & Jerry Blackwell beat Buddy Rose & Doug Somers & The Blaster Jimmy Snuka beat Boris Zhukov Curt Hennig beat Colonel DeBeers COR Super Ninja beat Earthquake Ferris Steve O drew Ali Khan att: 1,500 Note: Silo Sam, Ken Timbs and Billy Robinson competed in the battle royal Battle Royal spikes Vegas some. It does not spike St. Paul. 10/26/86 Chicago, IL Curt Hennig won battle royal Midnight Rockers & Jerry Blackwell beat The Blaster & Buddy Rose & Doug Somers AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko dq Jimmy Snuka beat Boris Zhukov Curt Hennig no contest Colonel DeBeers Earthquake Ferris beat Brian Knobbs att: 1,000 Pathetic 11/27/86 St. Paul, MN AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko Midnight Rockers & Despina Montagus beat Buddy Rose & Doug Somers & Sherri Martel Step Ladder match Jerry Blackwell beat Colonel DeBeers Curt Hennig beat Boris Zhukov Leon White won handicap match Alexis Smirnoff & Yuri Gordienko beat Buck Zumhofe & John Paul Demann Super Ninja beat Steve Olsonoski att: 4,000 11/30/86 Chicago, IL @ UIC Pavilion Curt Hennig beat AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel dq Jerry Blackwell beat Colonel DeBeers Midnight Rockers & Despina Montagus beat Buddy Rose & Doug Somers & Sherri Martel Greg Gagne beat Larry Zbyszko dq Leon White beat Boris Zhukov Alexis Smirnoff & Yuri Gordienko beat Billy Robinson & Steve Olsonoski att: 400 Note: I’ve also seen this card dated 11/26/86. I wonder if that Blackwell v. Debeers Ladder Match was the source of interest in St. Paul as it was a completely fresh gimmick. The number still sucks, but is way up from previous shows. Meanwhile Chicago is the worst town in the territory. 12/14/86 Buffalo, NY @ Amherst Campus Alumni Arena Postponed card from November 2 Battle Royal Midnight Rockers vs Doug Somers & Buddy Rose Larry Zbyszko vs Greg Gagne Colonel DeBeers vs Jerry Blackwell Last Blackwell date of the year. 12/25/86 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Special Referee: Billy Robinson AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Curt Hennig dq Non Title Cage Match Midnight Rockers beat AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Mr. Saito & Super Ninja & Larry Zbyszko beat Scott Hall & Leon White & Greg Gagne Colonel DeBeers beat Jimmy Snuka dq Boris Zhukov beat Steve O Earthquake Ferris beat Brian Nobbs Buck Zumhofe drew Buddy Wolff Att: 3,500 12/27/86 Denver, CO Colonel DeBeers beat Jimmy Snuka dq AWA Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers beat Midnight Rockers Super Ninja & Mr. Saito & Larry Zbyszko beat Scott Hall & Nick Bockwinkel & Leon White Boris Zhukov beat Steve Olsonoski Buck Zumhofe drew Buddy Wolff att: 4,606 Verne had to be happy with these numbers - which is sad. When they were able to load up the shows they did okay business, but Sarge and the Roadies leaving, Blackwell being on again/off again, et really hurt them. What this really shows me is how terrible the AWA talent pool was at this time, but also how awful a promoter Verne was in terms of getting the most out of the guys he had. There aren't really plusses to be drawn here for anyone, though I don't think I could give anyone other than Verne any real negatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Blackwell in 1985—my general comments: 1/8/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Jim Garvin beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Curt Hennig & Larry Hennig beat King Kong Brody & Sheik Adnan Fabulous Ones & Baron Von Raschke beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Nick Bockwinkel beat Curt Hennig Brad Rheingans beat Sheik Adnan COR Att 8987 1/10/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena TV Taping Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Jerry Blackwell beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Sgt. Slaughter beat Mr. Saito dq Jimmy Garvin beat John Nord dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Brian Jewel & Rob Rechsteiner Att: 5,628 That's a very good figure for a Blackwelless SLC, but look at the show - it's fucking loaded. Hard to imagine a more loaded show for 85 AWA than that as you have Bock, Brody, Hennigs (with Curt doing double duty), a World Title match and Roadies v. Fabs. hard to say if the fact that it was a TV Taping helped Winnipeg or not, but that feels like a hot main event and the fact is it's up over 2,000 from the previous Winnipeg show where Blackwell was third from the top against aged Billy Robinson. First thing to note is that the AWA did two types of TV. One was arena matches for TSN, specifically taped for TSN Wrestling in Canada. This began in and around late fall of 1984. That continued right through the end in January 1986. The second type of TV was done at a local High School. Some of those matches made TSN occasionally, more towards the end of their run, but I have always assumed most of those TV’s were done for the local AWA TV show that wasn’t affiliated with TSN. I do not have much AWA Winnipeg TV, but it’s all I can think of when they would run a card with 10 squashes on it, most of which never saw the light of day on TSN. 1/12/85 Milwaukee, WI Fabulous Ones & The Crusher beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Lights Out Match King Kong Brody beat Jerry Blackwell Jimmy Garvin beat Jim Brunzell via pin Nick Bockwinkel drew Curt Hennig Masked Superstar beat Tom Stone via pin Brad Rheingans beat Jake Milliman (sub Mr. Saito) Att: 5,741 Note: Milwaukee Sentinel says Blackwell beat Brody That's less than 500 away from a sellout in Milwaukee, with what looks like a very hot double main event and not much else of note on the show (Bock v. Curt didn't "heat up" til later and I'm not sure it ever did impressive business). Bockwinkel vs. Hennig was just a mid-card match at this stage. Good matchup but no real angle or stipulation that I can recall. Curt was coming into his own as a singles worker but at this time the idea was to promote him as a viable compliment for tags against the LOD (mostly with his father a bit later on). 1/13/85 St Paul, MN @ Civic Center evening Jim Garvin beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq No dq match, Sheik Adnan handcuffed to Sgt. Slaughter Jerry Blackwell beat King Kong Brody COR The Crusher & Fabulous Ones beat the Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Masked Superstar & Sheik Adnan Nick Bockwinkel & Mr Saito beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig dq Baron Von Raschke drew Billy Robinson John Nord beat Jimmy Doo Brad Rheingans beat Steve Regal att: 11,000 This is a strong number, though the show is really loaded. You could argue it could have done better, but it seems wrong to pan a 10k plus show in the AWA. Hard to pinpoint what was moving business, but it is worth noting that Brody v. Blackwell is the hottest feud in the territory by a safe margin if you are going by the tv. Gagne and Brunzell’s reunion match on this card (first tag-up since Brody injured Gagne’s knee) was an important element of this show as well. 1/17/85 Las Vegas, NV @ Showboat Sports Pavilion Lights Out match Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar (sub King Kong Brody) Jimmy Garvin beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Non title Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig (subs for Fabulous Ones) beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors Nick Bockwinkel beat Brad Rheingans Jim Brunzell beat Steve Regal att: 3,000 This is a very good number for Showboat I would imagine. As noted in the 84 post, 2000 was a standard number there in the ESPN TV era and that number always looked very close to a sell-out. The 3-6000 numbers we have seen for that venue makes me wonder what the capacity actually was, and how much the room could be configured or re-configured for shows. So yeah, I would say 3 grand is a good number for sure. 1/30/85 San Francisco, CA @ Cow Palace No dq match Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar (sub King Kong Brody) Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig (Subs for Fabulous Ones) & Baron Von Raschke beat Road Warriors & Paul Ellering Jim Garvin beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Sgt. Slaughter beat Nick Bockwinkel Pat Barrett drew Guy Lambert Att 4900 Very good number for the Palace, bordering on great when you see how shitty that town had been drawing in prior years. Also interesting that Superstar v. Blackwell went on last and the title match was in the mid-card. I would venture to guess this had to do with what matches were garnering the most heat as Blackwell v. Brody was the hot feud. Also worth noting that Superstar was plugged in fairly effectively as a replacement for Brody from a storyline perspective which I think speaks well of Eadie, Adnan (who was hated) and Blackwell. Only caution I would put here is that I suspect Superstar might have been announced as a replacement very late, if not at the show itself, and if that’s the case, I would suspect it hurts future Blackwell-Brody bookings later on. 2/22/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors dq AWA Champion Rick Martel dcor Bob Backlund Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke Mr. Saito & Masked Superstar & King Tonga beat Steve O & Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal John Nord drew Tom Zenk Att 10,000+ What's funny is that 2k is actually not awful for the Cow Palace, though it's less than half of the last show. Looking at the card that's no surprise. SLC is still holding really strong. St. Paul turns in another good number. Blackwell is notably placed in the last match of all of these cards. Pretty clear Verne sees him as his money making babyface and there is no reason to think he was wrong. Slaughter still being fresh is important here as the Slaughter-Blackwell team was definitely looked at as a threat to the LODs title reign, possibly the last viable one left in the fans minds. 3/4/85 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada @ PNE Coliseum AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Brunzell AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Mr. Saito & Moose Morowski Lights Out match Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar Jim Brunzell beat Sheik Adnan Buck Zumhofe beat Moondog Moretti Steve Austin beat John Baker Att: 1,500 At this point you see Verne starting to move into a couple of oddball spots out West. I have no clue why they were trying to run Vancouver now, unless Verne was just pissed at Tomko for some reason. No clue if this is a good figure for the town or not. Not surprising that they would run title matches on top in a "new" town. My assumption for this, the Alaska shows, and some of the other spots they tried to run is that instead of working on protecting their “home turf”, Verne thought spreading the AWA out to be even bigger was the way to go. Verne was a stubborn man and convinced that the AWA style was the style that the fans would prefer to see over the WWF. Up until this point, the AWA was holding up well against the invasion of the WWF in the Twin Cities and most of their other regular areas, so his confidence that they could translate that into more success in more places would have been at it’s peak. I used to know who Brunzell subbed in for in the title match there, but I can’t remember now. I *think* it might have been Superstar, who was moved over to fight Blackwell when Brody no-showed. I assume the Moose Morowski sub is for Bockwinkel. Brunzell could also be subbing in for Jim Garvin here. 3/7/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito King Tonga beat Sgt. Slaughter dq Jerry Blackwell beat Masked Superstar Jerry Blackwell drew Sheik Adnan Billy Robinson beat Buddy Lane Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal att: 5,208 Winnipeg still holding pretty solid. Interesting card and if it is the show I'm thinking you clearly have to credit Blackwell for a lot of this. The result doesn't say it, but this was a match where If Blackwell beat Eadie he got five minutes with Adnan. Crowd was molten for it, it's a great match(es?), and it definitely felt like the biggest thing on the show. The Garvin-Martel match is also their blowoff, and featured “Bertha Von Raschke” in the corner of Martel to counteract the interference of Precious. The interviews with The Baron in drag are really funny stuff. 3/8/85 St Louis, MO AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Nick Bockwinkel Missouri State Champion Jerry Blackwell beat Bulldog Bob Brown Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Masked Superstar & Mr Saito Sgt Slaughter dcor Wahoo McDaniel Mike Von Erich beat Jimmy Garvin American Starship beat Marty Jannetty & Steve Olsonoski Dick the Bruiser beat Mr Pogo dq Rufus R Jones beat Ken Timbs att: 2,610 Wow. No clue what to think of this. This is probably a Central States promoted show...or is it? Hard to tell. Feels like a shitty figure, but why the fuck was Verne running that town assuming this wasn't Geigel and friends? As I recall Verne owned a piece of St. Louis at one point in the 80’s, and maybe it was around this time. The Central States influence is noteworthy, but there are also elements of the St. Louis “bring anyone in” mentality that made it a unique place to see wrestling. 3/9/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Garvin Special Referee: Verne Gagne Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell beat King Tonga & Masked Superstar & Sheik Adnan dq Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito Curt Hennig beat Billy Robinson Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Candi Devine beat Diane Von Hoffman John Nord drew Tom Zenk Would like a figure here. Also worth noting that the High Flyers have re-emerged on the last several shows. Verne had his ribs injured either during or after this match by Adnan et al, and it lead to the Chicago version of Star Cage later on. Verne also liked to keep track of events over years that kept feuds going, and this match was mentioned often in the build to Wrestlerock as a big reason Verne wanted Adnan in the cage if Greg and Snuka beat Brody and Nord. Wonder how this did. GB was an interesting town to monitor as it only seemed to draw huge for molten programs. This is followed up by a bizarre run of shows in modest sized upstate NJ towns. No fucking clue what the point of that was. No figures on them, but Jerry isn't on the shows anyhow. The point was Pro Wrestling USA was going at this time, and these NJ shows were an offshoot of that promotion in the sense that there were suddenly AWA guys on TV in that region. 3/19/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Jerry Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter beat Masked Superstar & King Tonga dq AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jim Brunzell Nick Bockwinkel beat Greg Gagne dq Misty Blue beat Linda Dallas Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Att 4502 Verne the lunatic runs a split show again, this time with Baron/Backlund headlining against Nagasaki/Saito in NY. As a result both shows are weak and SLC shits the bed for the first time since Blackwell was MIA in 84. Not really an awful number for the town, but clearly a bad sign. I’m sure Brunzell must be a sub for someone else in Salt Lake. Garvin, perhaps? That's a good number for New Haven, but again you have to wonder why on Earth they are trying to run that area As noted, these shows were tied into PW USA. 3/24/85 Denver, CO @ Auditorium Arena afternoon Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors dq Jerry Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter drew Mr. Saito & King Tonga & Masked Superstar Baron Von Raschke beat Jim Garvin Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Att 4719. We don't have a previous number of note in Denver so I have no clue if that is a good figure or not. Aud/Arena was used for shows that were “average” in terms of expected draw. I think that’s around the normal number for it. McNichols would get some “bigger” shows here and there. I think Denver attendance can largely be compared to Winnipeg’s attendance in terms of the ebb and flow of the numbers. I have talked to guys in Denver that attended many shows there and that seems to be what they wre implying without giving me anything more than a guess on the numbers. So, this is an ok number in my estimation. 4/19/85 East Rutherford, NJ @ Meadowlands AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig AWA Champion Rick Martel beat King Tonga Jim Garvin beat Baron Von Raschke Bob Backlund beat Larry Zbyszko Ugandan Death Match Kamala beat Sgt. Slaughter Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts drew Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell & Tonga Kid Jim Duggan beat Kendo Nagasaki The Samoans beat Tom Zenk & Steve O Buck Zumhofe beat Steve Regal Bobby Duncum beat Larry Sharpe Att 10,000 East Coast swing. 10k is a good number for a Meadowlands show with essentially foreign talent. Blackwell stayed away from the East Coast swings as a rule. Pro Wrstling USA Show, and of note Blackwell got called on his health problems in New Jersey at the big shows. He was forced to sit out the tag team battleroyal at the first PWUSA show, *think* because of high blood pressure. As I recall, McMahon made sure that the New Jersey Commission was aware of the potential health concerns of Blackwell and compelled them to check it out.Vince did this on more than one occasion in different places during his was with the AWA et al. I would guess that Blackwell was kept out of New Jersey after the first time it happened because of that. 4/21/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Cage match Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell beat Sheik Adnan & King Tonga & Masked Superstar AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig dq Verne Gagne & Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito Bob Backlund & Brad Rheingans beat Larry Zbyszko & Butch Reed Baron Von Raschke & Buck Zumhofe beat Jim Garvin & Steve Regal Jim Brunzell & Tonga Kid beat Billy Robinson & Bobby Duncum Steve Olsonoski & Tom Zenk beat The Alaskans att: 12,000 This is a really good St. Paul number at this point. Verne helped. Roadies helped. The fans were probably ready for the ultimate Blackwell blowoff against Adnan and this was it. Also a really great match. Star Cage 85, also televised closed-circuit in the Twin Cities. The April shows were beginning to become “special” shows in the Twin Cities. I actually think Verne expected a full sell-out with this one on his latest comeback alone, so the number might be considered a disappointment despite how it compares to other numbers in St. Paul from 85. I get the tag team spectacular theme of the show but Martel really should have defended on it, IMO. 4/28/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon Cage match Sgt. Slaughter & Jerry Blackwell & Verne Gagne beat Masked Superstar & King Tonga & Sheik Adnan Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig drew AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat Jim Brunzell & Greg Gagne & Tonga Kid Dick The Bruiser & The Crusher beat Butch Reed & Larry Zbyszko Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito beat Brad Rheingans & Tom Zenk Baron Von Raschke & Buck Zumhofe beat Jim Garvin & Steve Regal Star Cage in Chicago. This is the revenge spot for Verne from a few months back when he reffed a match between these teams and got attacked. 5/23/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Larry Zbyszko Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts beat Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell Butch Reed beat Baron Von Raschke COR The Crusher beat Rick Renslow Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Larry Zbyszko beat Ron Ritchie att: 1,900 Winnipeg finally croaks. Show doesn't look awful, but isn't the strongest. Notable that Roadies, Blackwell and Sarge are all absent. Zbyszko had no real push in Winnipeg up until this show, so the Main event would have been a “WTF” for most fans. Part of the problem with Zbyszko is that they began his push after he had achieved complete mid-card status in the AWA, drawing with the likes of Curt Hennig and being massacred by Dusty Rhodes in a one-shot appearance by Rhodes in June 1984. I don’t remember if he had the Americas Title yet but in Winnipeg, who would have cared about it anyway? 5/25/85 Chicago Jerry Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter beat Road Warrior Animal & Paul Ellering (sub RW Hawk) AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Buddy Roberts (sub King Tonga) Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts dq Butch Reed no contest The Crusher Nick Bockwinkel beat Brad Rheingans Larry Zbyszko (sub Jim Garvin) beat Baron Von Raschke Ray Stevens beat Buck Zumhofe Steve Regal drew Steve O att: 5,000 Note: Terry Gordy also no showed. Weak number. Probably did not help that they were coming off a massive show from before, but this is still bad. I think Roberts actually subbed for Gordy against Martel…he and Hayes had a coin flip for the match. 6/9/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Michael Hayes beat AWA Champion Rick Martel No title change. Decision later reversed. Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens beat Greg Gagne & Steve Olsonoski (sub Jim Brunzell) Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Sgt. Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko dq Baron Von Raschke & Brad Rheingans & Buck Zumhofe beat Bobby Duncum & Billy Robinson & Steve Regal Butch Reed beat Dave Wagner att: 1,500 6/13/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts beat The Crusher & Baron Von Raschke Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig drew Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens Brad Rheingans beat Steve Regal Handicap match Butch Reed beat Rick Renslow & Brian Jewel Larry Zbyszko beat Steve O Buck Zumhofe beat Dave Wagner att: 1,864 This is holy shit bad, Summer or not. Absence of Roadies, Blackwell is hurting every fucking town. Meanwhile Verne is still doing dumb shit like running Asbury Park. I’ve stated it before, but the Freebirds either in singles or as a team did not draw well in the AWA at all. Roadies-Freebirds was the occasional exception but they never really ran it when they should have. They never programmed compelling opponents with them, often going with makeshift 6-man teams with older stars that didn’t mesh well with the Birds, with no real story to build the matches. Hayes as a singles challenger feuding with Martel was absolutely the wrong choice in the sense that it came right after Garvin…it felt like the same series of matches all over again. 6/30/85 Milwaukee, WI @ Auditorium Dick The Bruiser & The Crusher beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy dq Butch Reed beat Baron Von Raschke Bob Backlund drew Larry Zbyszko Ray Stevens beat Buck Zumhofe Billy Robinson beat Steve O Brad Rheingans beat Rick Gantner Att: 2200 Milwaukee is quarter full and nearing death. Birds v. Old Men isn't moving anywhere. Bruiser and Crusher were at the end of the line, and even their biggest supporters knew it. That tag main event sells out as late as 1983, I bet. 7/11/85 Salt Lake City, UT @ Salt Palace Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne drew Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens Fabulous Freebirds Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat Larry Hennig & Curt Hennig Bob Backlund beat Larry Zbyszko Brad Rheingans beat Buddy Roberts Boris Zhukov beat Baron Von Raschke Att: 1400 7/14/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens dq AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Michael Hayes dq AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Bob Backlund beat Larry Zbyszko Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat Steve O & Buck Zumhofe Boris Zhukov beat Baron Von Raschke Cowboy Lang & Little Coco beat Little Tokyo & Lord Littlebrook Att 2500 Roadies come black, Blackwell doesn't, number is still utter dog shit. Things may not be salvageable at this point. Expanding into other markets and having your three biggest acts off key shows even during your "down" period historically is awful business on Verne's part. The Slaughter-Gagne vs. Bock/Stevens matches came off of the “Gagne in Boot Camp” vignette that turned Greg into Rambo Greg Gagne for a bit. Good matchup but a rematch of Hayes-Martel did not help at all (refer to my previous comments on that pairing), and while the Irwins were decent challengers and the matches were good, by this point the Roadies looked completely unbeatable AND were fan favourites, so nobody was showing up to see if they would lose. 7/18/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Larry Zbyszko Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat The Crusher & Larry Hennig & Baron Von Raschke Sleeper vs Sleeper Match Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel reverse decision Boris Zhukov beat Buck Zumhofe Ray Stevens beat Brian Jewell (sub Curt Hennig) Cowboy Lang & Little Coco beat Lord Littlebrook & Little Tokyo att: 3,224 Of note here is Zurkov attacked Martel after the match and laid him out cold with his head, setting up their trilogy. The Gagne-Bockwinkel bout was a “Sleeper” match (must win with the Sleeper) and was promoted as such. 8/11/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors no contest Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Curt Hennig & Rick Martel beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy Nick Bockwinkel beat Greg Gagne Sgt Slaughter beat Larry Zbyszko Kabuki beat Chris Adams dq Brad Rheingans beat Boris Zhukov dq Buck Zumhofe beat Iron Duke Jim Garvin beat Kevin Kelly Tom Zenk beat Rick Renslow No number for St. Paul which is too bad. From tape I’ve seen of the two tags on top, I would guess this was in the 2-3000 range, like the previous shows. Originally it was going to be Martel and Crusher vs the Freebirds, but either Crusher pulled out or they changed the main event late because Crusher was not selling tickets (I think it was both. Crusher had a history of holding Verne up for more money before big shows and Verne probably saw the advanced sales and said “fuck you” this time). Hennig and Martel is a more compelling team IMO, but it wasn’t back in 1985 as Curt was not getting any sort of main-event push yet. 8/18/85 Rosemont, IL @ Rosemont Horizon Boot Camp match Sgt. Slaughter & Greg Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens NWA Champion Ric Flair beat Billy Robinson Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts beat Rick Martel & Jerry Blackwell & Larry Hennig dq Brad Rheingans beat Boris Zhukov dq Bill Irwin beat Baron Von Raschke Steve Regal beat Buck Zumhofe Curt Hennig drew Larry Zbyszko Scott Irwin beat Rob Rechsteiner Att: 6000 This boot camp match has popped a few towns to Sarge's credit. This isn't a good number for Chicago really, but considering where it was this is progress. This is also the return of Blackwell and Flair is on the show. Some Chicago people I have talked to went to this show went specifically for Robinson-Flair…”Student vs. Teacher” was how a lot of the tv interviews were promoted leading up to it. Some wrestlers were actually noted to have snuck out to see this one. Robinson-Flair was intriguing to a lot of people even with Robinson notably past his prime. 8/21/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Holy Cross School TV Taping Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat Rob Rechsteiner & Monty Black Tom Zenk drew Nick Bockwinkel Scott Hall beat Man Mountain Mike Moore Boris Zhukov beat Chris Basset Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat Brian Jewel & Randy Rose Tom Zenk beat Rob Rechsteiner Rick Martel beat Man Mountain Mike Scott Hall beat Bob Adams Boris Zhukov beat Monty Black Nick Bockwinkel beat Tom Lucas Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat T-Bone Brown & Chris Basset Tom Zenk beat Brian Jewel Scott Hall beat Rob Rechsteiner Boris Zhukov beat Brian Jewel 8/22/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Boris Zhukov beat AWA Champion Rick Martel dq Tom Zenk & Larry Hennig & Jerry Blackwell beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts Baron Von Raschke beat Nick Bockwinkel COR Tom Zenk beat Steve Regal Bulldog Bob Brown beat Man Mountain Mike Moore Scott Hall drew Larry Zbyszko Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin beat Rob Rechsteiner & Buck Zumhofe Bulldog Bob Brown beat Brian Jewel Att: 4,208 More stupidity as Verne runs tv the day before in the same town. This is an averagish number for Winnipeg, but why the fuck would he essentially double book the same town?? Not sure why doing a TV one night and a big card the next night would be considered stupid. Some of those matches were used on TSN and the rest likely on whatever local tv they still had, either that or kept in the can for future use on TSN. The concept makes sense to me. 8/26/85 Boston, MA AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin AWA Champion Rick Martel drew Nick Bockwinkel Sgt. Slaughter beat Boris Zhukov Bob Backlund beat Larry Zbyszko dq Greg Gagne beat Steve Regal Brad Rheingans beat Billy Robinson Verne decides to try out Boston. God knows why. The AWA was brought in with the Muscular Dystrophy association to hold this card, called “Wrestle for a Cure”. It was broadcast on local TV and proceeds from the event were donated to the MDA (right around telethon time, after all). The matches were notably short (10-12 minutes max for each, including the AWA title match…it was a 10 minute draw!) This was held I think at Boston university, and I would peg the attendance at a near sell-out, which I think was around 5,000 for this venue. Sounds like you might need this for the AWA 80’s project. The clear headliner and what the show was built around was Slaughter-Zurkov, FWIW. 9/8/85 St. Paul, MN ESPN TV Taping AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Kamala dq Terry Gordy beat Jerry Blackwell dq Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens & Larry Zbyszko Buck Zumhofe beat Sgt. Slaughter dq Baron Von Raschke beat Bill Irwin Larry Hennig drew Scott Irwin Larry Clark beat Stan Hansen dq Jerry Oski & Brad Rheingans drew Wild Bill & Scott Hog Irwin Curt Hennig & Greg Gagne beat Jim Garvin & Steve Regal dq Buck Zumhofe drew Buddy Roberts Stan Hansen beat Paul Garner Billy Robinson beat Randy Barber att: 4,000 Was this at the Civic Center? I'm guessing not. If not, it was in Roy Wilkins Auditorium adjacent to it. The setup for the bouts around the ring make me think it’s NOT the Civic Center, but it could just be an odd configuration to make the TV look fuller. I have seen them do that later on in 1986 and in 1989 for shows for this reason. 9/19/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Wally Karbo Tribute Card AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Boris Zhukov dq Jerry Blackwell beat Michael Hayes Tom Zenk & Curt Hennig beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Jim Garvin beat Buck Zumhofe Baron Von Raschke beat Buddy Roberts Buddy Lane beat Steve Regal Att: 3,600 Below average, but this is above the abysmal number from the Summer. Probably would have been better - but Verne did tv at the high school the night before. At least it wasn't a huge tv like the previous one, but still. Blackwell continues to main event in the majority of shows around the loop. I believe by this point, Verne had sold his interest in Winnipeg to Lanza and Bockwinkel. The whole story is over on Kayfabe memories somewhere, but Jack Lanza became a big part of why the AWA left Winnipeg after January of 1986…around when Jack went to work for Vince. 9/28/85 Chicago, IL @ Comiskey Park NWA Champion Ric Flair beat Magnum TA Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy beat AWA Tag Team Champions Road Warriors to win title (Decision quickly reversed by video replay) Stan Hansen no contest AWA Champion Rick Martel Kerry Von Erich beat Jimmy Garvin Ivan Koloff & Nikita Koloff & Khrusher Khrushchev beat Dick The Bruiser & The Crusher & Baron Von Raschke Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig & Scott Hall beat Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens & Larry Zbyszko Sgt Slaughter beat Boris Zhukov dq Jumbo Tsuruta & Giant Baba & Genichiro Tenyru beat Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin & Harley Race Bodyslam match Jerry Blackwell beat Kamala Mil Mascaras beat Buddy Roberts Sherri Martel beat Candi Divine to win the AWA Women's title Steve Regal beat Brad Rheingans att: 20,347 AWA loads things up and goes balls out. Blackwell v. Kamala is deep is mid-card and feels like an after thought. This is a good number, but you almost feel like it could have been a lot better. I never got why they only had about 40-50 people around ringside. The rest are all in the bleachers which were not close to the ring at all. Really strange visual for this show. 9/29/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center Jim Garvin & Steve Regal beat Road Warriors to win AWA tag title AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Jumbo Tsuruta Handicap Match Sgt. Slaughter beat Boris Zhukov & Chris Markoff Jerry Blackwell & Little Mr. T beat Fabulous Freebirds Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts Shohei Giant Baba & Genichiro Tenyru no contest Stan Hansen & Larry Zbyszko Scott Hall beat Drew Tossel Buck Zumhofe beat Rick Renslow att: 2,000 Terrible, but this is a fucking stupid ass line up, almost designed to fail. Too bad because Martel-Tsuruta is my favourite of all of their matches, and the Garvin-Regal title win deserved to be seen by a lot more people than that. 10/17/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena Mad Dog Vachon & Nick Bockwinkel beat Boris Zhukov & Chris Markoff Handicap match Stan Hansen beat Brian Jewell & Ed Wilson Larry Zbyszko beat Baron Von Raschke Jim Garvin beat Stan Lane Scott Hall beat Steve Regal Sherri Martel beat Candi Devine to win AWA Women's Title Kelly Kiniski beat Iron Duke att: 3,528 Winnipeg still below what it should be with a weak line up and tv the day before in town. The big seller for this card was the teaming of “forever enemies” Bockwinkel and Vachon, to take on the Russians. That match is a fun sprint if you haven’t seen it yet. Looking at the rest of that lineup I’d say that it drew pretty well. Stan Lane is a typo also, it should be Buddy lane, advertised as a local product. He would challenge Regal for the Jr. title there at some point. 12/12/85 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena $100,000 Battle royal Road Warriors beat Boris Zhukov & Chris Markoff Scott Hall beat Jimmy Garvin Stan Hansen beat Man Mountain Mike Mongolian Stomper beat Kevin Kelly Jerry Blackwell vs Kelly Kiniski The Alaskans I & II vs Bill Irwin & Scott Irwin Larry Zbyszko beat Buck Zumhofe Att: 5,928 Battle Royal PLUS they didn't foolishly run tv the day before! Lol…one more note about the tv: The High School it was held in did not have a big capacity, so maybe you had a hundred people in there watching the matches. Those TVs had zero effect on the big show in Winnipeg. 12/25/85 St. Paul, MN @ Civic Center AWA Champion Rick Martel beat Stan Hansen dq Road Warriors no contest AWA Tag Team Champions Jim Garvin & Steve Regal Nick Bockwinkel beat Larry Zbyszko Mongolian Stomper & Nord The Barbarian & Boris Zhukov beat Scott Hall & Curt Hennig & Jerry Blackwell Baron Von Raschke beat Scott Irwin dq Marty Jannetty beat Kelly Kiniski Cowboy Lang & Little Mr. T beat Little Tokyo & Lord Littlebrook Bill Irwin beat Kevin Kelly Sherri Martel beat Debbie Combs Att: 7000+ Poor number for Christmas night in St. Paul on a very poor line up. I don't think it's a reach to say that if they had found someone of note to feud with Blackwell they could have done business during this period. He really feels like he's being misused. Same with the Roadies. The number is still better than mostly anything they did in St. paul since April, though. LOD trying to regain their titles against competition so obviously inferior would have drawn some folks out (“how could they lose?” mentality), plus the Hansen-Martel feud was running pretty hot at this point Tv-wise. Nord and Stomper were new Sheiks Army guys so Blackwell is at least in a “get the Sheik” sort of angle here. I’m ok with this number based on the rest of the year. 85 is an interesting year. No doubt Vince was hurting them, but Verne did a shit ton to hurt himself. Business was actually fairly strong up until the Roadies and Blackwell departed and the use of Sarge was scaled back. Summer or not that clearly had a hugely adverse effect on the companies drawing power. Blackwell and the Roadies were clearly misused for big chunks of the year and were probably the biggest draws in the company, with Sarge in third. The drop from early 1985 to the end of it overall was huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 The problem with saying the Winnipeg TV had no effect on Winnipeg gates is that Winnipeg had been a hot town, dipped bad for the Summer, then they started doing double duty in the town and the numbers never came back up no matter what they put on the show. Correlation isn't causation, but that is an extremely curious coincidence to me. It could be that the town was just murdered dead over the Summer to the point where things weren't salvageable but if that's the case it still raises the question of why the fuck you would run TV in a dismal town. Apparently the answer is that Verne had sold the town for all intents and purposes. I also find it curious that they just gave up on Brandon. On the East Coast swings I know that PWUSA started to air, but that really feels like an idiotic decision regardless, ESPECIALLY the decision to start doing split crews. The AWA could still draw in 85 but for the most part they had to load up there cards to pop a gate of note. This isn't going to happen when you've got Sarge working for 400 people in a North Jersey Elks Lodge. On the Superstar thing I'm sure he was a last second sub for Brody in the Cow Palace, but if you look at the follow up numbers that hardly seemed to be a huge problem. Eadie was subbed in fairly seamlessly for the most part. If you believe Matisyk, Verne had a piece of St. Louis going back to the 70's. What's notable about that show is that it's the first time I can recall a show that could be seen as an AWA show in the town - and the timing is terrible. I think if you look at the over all picture in 85 Verne/promoters fucked themselves as much as Vince fucked them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Verne certainly didn't help himself, no doubt. I think the numbers in Winnipeg did get better after the incredibly poor summer, however: May 1984: 3628 1985: 1900 June 1984: 2620 1985: 1864 July 1984: NO CARD 1985: 3224 August 1984: 5964 1985: 4208 (w/TV at High School) September 1984: 4708 1985: 3600 October 1984: 8920 1985: 3528 November 1984: 4376 1985: 6012 December 1984: 3584 1985: 5928 January 1985: 5685 (Arena TV) January 1986: 6800 It might be reasonable to assume that the lower 85 numbers vs. 84 for most of the year can be partially attributed to a lack of "new" star power. 84 had new face Blackwell, Brody, Bundy, Road Warriors debut and push, and new champ Martel, all very compelling "new" draws for the terroitory. 85 had the Freebirds, Garvin, Slaughter, Superstar and Zurkov as "new" draws..compelling, but not as much in my mind as the 84 newbies, both situationally and as in 'new wrestlers'. The 84 feuds and matchups were also much better, with stories that wrote themselves (Blackwell turns good! Will Bock regain the title from martel right away? Holy shit, look at The Road Warriors!). 85 had the Freebirds vs. The Old Men and Young Kids, Martel defending against Bockwinkel AGAIN, Martel vs. Zurkov (done well, but only really ever done here, probably because they didn't have the confidence in it to run it in other markets), The Roadies running out of real title challenges by year-end, and Slaughter vs. less-than-compelling foreign heels like Tonga and Saito. Verne brought in talent that should have worked, but how he matched them up in trying to build them wasn't good. Baron, Crusher, Larry Hennig, Buck Zumhofe, and other veterans of the area being used as fodder for the new guys did nothing for their buildup. Reed SHOULD squash Raschke. Even the die-hard AWA fan saw this, and when the old guys did well, even in losing, it didn't make you say "I wonder how a Martel-Reed matchup will go?" It made you say "The Irwins just got beat by Hennig and Zenk. The Roadies will CRUSH them." I hope my analogies are making sense. Add in the WWF product becoming more and more recognizable and viewable by the fans in the area (and the "wer're the best" branding taking hold in the fans minds, something the WWF did better than anyone, period), and I see the slip in attendance being multi-faceted. The numbers were mostly down but honestly the trends were similar to 84, just with smaller numbers. ..and make no mistake, losing Winnipeg after drawing so well in the last three months of their run there had to have really stung the AWA as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I exaggerated a bit, but look at those dates again. They do TV in Winnipeg, THEN go to Brandon which had been a hot town they had scaled back from with a big Battle Royal, THEN go back to the Arena for Martel v. Zhukov blowoff. That's November. The Dec. Show was a battle royal which always drew well for the AWA as you note - it also did not have TV the day before. There is no TV before the Jan. 86 show either. The Winnipeg TV taping started running the day before the Arena shows in June which was one month after the disaster of a show in may that had no Sarge, Blackwell or Roadies and as you noted Larry Z foolishly on top. That formula stayed in place UNTIL Nov, when they decided to space things out by a day and add Brandon (which had been a hot town) back into the mix for a Battle Royal with Blackwell. After this they dump Winnipeg tv altogether and the last two shows the promotion runs there do good business - especially by the standards of that time for the AWA. I'm not saying TV was the ONLY thing that killed the town, because it wasn't even the first strike. But TV the day before certainly didn't spike business, certainly didn't seem like a sound investment, and may very well have had an adverse effect on business. The correlation is clearly there. My guess? The May show where the stars they did have weren't booked fucked the town. They needed to do something to spike it. TV came on air. Some people chose to go to those tapings, some people watched, no body liked what they saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I think the turnaround late in the year is directly correlated to Verne selling to Blackjack and Bockwinkel (however that exactly worked). I also think people got used to watching the matches on TSN somewhat...there would have been no regional blackout for that show. If you knew that the card was "iffy", and that you could watch it over the course of a month on TSN (save for the odd match which didn't air, but most of them did), you might be likely to take a month or two off going to the shows and instead wait until you saw the talent level/booking rebound when they promoted it locally. TSN started in September of 1984, and the wrestling was a staple show from the start (I remember getting a converter box and a subscription to TSN and Muchmusic as a Christmas gift, lol). Eventually, I think it had an effect on business to a degree. So factors in the 1985 Winnipeg attendance downturn could possibly be attributed to (a) poor booking of debuting stars and established draws, (b ) All the matches airing on TSN shortly after the cards were held, © TVs being done the day before at times taking away from the big shows gate the next night, and (d) some WWF influx into the market, at least via TV at this point. For the other areas where attendance suffered a significant downturn, I would place (a) and (d) in the mix as primary factors, (a) being the most prevalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Going to post something about this stuff at Classics. Should I post a thread specific about Blackwell as an HoFer or something about candidates that should be on the ballot but aren't? Speaking of which, Fujiwara is another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 It all depends on how much of this content you're going to bring over there to argue in favour of Blackwell as a HOF candidate. There are some informed AWA guys over there but not many, so posting information for discussion might be better as opposed to asking for opinions first, and then posting discussion information. Guys whose opinions you will want to seek out over there include Clawmaster, Tamalie, and Chitown Rich if he still posts there. There may be a few others but most of what I reaad on the AWA there is in the "boy they sucked, Verne was stoopid" range of opinion. Perhaps that's different in the WON HOF Forums as opposed to the regular board but I don't know. Alternately I may drag this stuff over to a private AWA forum I frequent, to get opinions and additional information. Anything I gather there I'll bring over here, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingPower Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Still fascinated with the discussion over wrestlers who were never on the ballot, I did some research on those that received less than 10% of the vote & fell off the ballot over the years. If I interpreted it right I think the original rule was that once you fell off the ballot, you could go back on in 2 years. I think the criteria for that was either a continuing career that would make someone a stronger candidate or historical candidates that had more info uncovered on them and/or someone making a good case for them & promising to vote for them. 1998 (first year of voting): Fuerza Guerrera, Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, Mark Lewin, Lex Luger, Don Muraco, Kevin Nash, Paul Orndorff, Blue Panther, Ken Patera, Jake Roberts, Rick Rude, Hans Schmidt, Davey Boy Smith, Steiner Bros., Sting, Akira Taue, Barry Windham 1999: Curtis Iaukea, Bill Miller, Masa Saito, Tiger Jeet Singh, Sgt. Slaughter, Kerry Von Erich, Doc Death 2000: Lou Albano, Masa Chono, Masakatsu Funaki, Chavo Guerrero, Konnan, Bas Rutten, Sabu, Ken Shamrock 2001: Eric Bischoff, Cien Caras 2002: Andersons, Pedro Morales 2003: Yuji Nagata, Fuerza Guerrera, Yoshihiro Takayama 2004: Atlantis, Pepper Gomez, Gordman & Goliath, Gran Hamada, La Parka, Great Sasuke, Ben & Mike Sharpe, Dr. Wagner Jr. 2005: Lonnie Mayne, Don Muraco, Takayama 2006: Arn Anderson, Booker T, Davey Boy Smith I stopped here due to not having later years on paper and figuring this proves that most if not all of the names we have been debating were obviously never on. Some interesting things here in that Saito, Konnan, and Bill Miller fell off the ballot & eventually got in. So there were obviously some people championing Miller, Hans Schmidt, and maybe others to get them back on. I'm guessing Jake Roberts fell off & never went back on due to his career being pretty much over at the point he fell off. But you could probably say the same for Slaughter and now he's seen as one of the stronger candidates. I also found it interesting on the above list as compared to Dylan's research that I would assume guys like Lonnie Mayne and Gordman & Goliath were Meltzer favorites due to where he grew up & their #s & longevity couldn't hold a candle to Blackwell, Dundee, High Flyers, etc. I think we have really uncovered some interesting stuff here as I would be curious to hear the original criteria for who was considered to go on & who not. I think we agreed last week that the main problems were probably when the original ballot was formulated & the difficulty in getting people added since to correct oversights. One other thing I noticed in research is just how much the balloting pool has grown over the years. The first year a guy could get in with 13-15 people voting for them. Last year it took 109 American votes for a guy in that region to get in. So obviously Meltzer isn't averse to adding voters, I guess you could just argue about how he finds them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 Some interesting things here in that Saito, Konnan, and Bill Miller fell off the ballot & eventually got in. So there were obviously some people championing Miller, Hans Schmidt, and maybe others to get them back on. Miller and Schmidt have been championed by a number of historians. I can say with some confidence that if we knew then what we know now, they would have gone in the 1996 Class. Konnan was always going to get back on the ballot. Was on it while semi-active. "Big Star", which means Dave will always toss him back into the mix if he fell below 10%. Saito... probably a push from Japan, or Dave fondly remembering him. There haven't been a lot of fresh, quality Japanese candidates, and Dave does like to keep things from being too stale. I'm guessing Jake Roberts fell off & never went back on due to his career being pretty much over at the point he fell off. But you could probably say the same for Slaughter and now he's seen as one of the stronger candidates. Sarge headline in New York/Philly/Boston against a World Champ, and has that fondly remember headlining feud opposite Steamboat & Youngblood. He has some "Big Star" cha-ching that would play to Dave. Jake... just doesn't. For all we fondly remember him in the WWF, in the pecking order he was a way down from the top. He doesn't even have that Orndorff vs Hogan run, which in Paul's case ignores that they had an earlier first run. Jake probably to Dave is a "big name", but he had problems putting anything tangible on it. That said, I doubt it would be hard to get Jake back on the ballot. When he drops dead, you'll see Jake back on. Obits tend to do that. I also found it interesting on the above list as compared to Dylan's research that I would assume guys like Lonnie Mayne and Gordman & Goliath were Meltzer favorites due to where he grew up & their #s & longevity couldn't hold a candle to Blackwell, Dundee, High Flyers, etc. Possibly. But Mayne and Gordman & Goliath have obits that give them some attention. They're also in a different era grouping where fans look to vote for them. I think we have really uncovered some interesting stuff here as I would be curious to hear the original criteria for who was considered to go on & who not. *points to picture in Gong 500* "Yes?" "Yes." I think we agreed last week that the main problems were probably when the original ballot was formulated & the difficulty in getting people added since to correct oversights. There wasn't an original ballot. One other thing I noticed in research is just how much the balloting pool has grown over the years. The first year a guy could get in with 13-15 people voting for them. Last year it took 109 American votes for a guy in that region to get in. So obviously Meltzer isn't averse to adding voters, I guess you could just argue about how he finds them. We've talked about this item for years. Nothing new. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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