Loss Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Well, the whole time he's selling, Luger didn't get in any offense. Luger was out to do new highspots, so it felt like a disconnect. Both guys were working different matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 How's the Windham/Gilbert stuff? Seems like it'd be quite awesome on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Speaking of guys with cowboy gimmicks, I've always been baffled by the praise for JBL's in-ring work. His best straight wrestling match was against Eddy at Judgment Day, and even that wasn't very good. Once he got the belt, all his title defenses were either overbooked messes or smoke-and-mirrors gimmick matches. I liked his I Quit match with Cena, but that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 Speaking of guys with cowboy gimmicks, I've always been baffled by the praise for JBL's in-ring work. His best straight wrestling match was against Eddy at Judgment Day, and even that wasn't very good. Once he got the belt, all his title defenses were either overbooked messes or smoke-and-mirrors gimmick matches. I liked his I Quit match with Cena, but that's it. I enjoyed Bradshaw way before it was fashionable to enjoy him. Back from the Justin "Hawk" days. I enjoyed the New Blackjacks. I enjoyed his first mini-push against Jarrett in 98. I thought he was decent as a third rate Stan Hansen, and stiff work was a breath of fresh air in the WWF at that time. But his work as JBL in big matches, nah, never saw anything that good in this. His matches with Eddie were some of the best matches I've seen from the modern WWE style, but that was basically 90% Eddie making them good. So, basically, I enjoyed Bradshaw when nobody cared and when he was a non-factor, and thought he was overrated as all hell when he was pushed to the moon, and just wasn't that good of a worker in that setting. The fact he finally got a push to the top just because he was basically an office stooge doesn't play in his favor either. It's not like he got super over either. Â On a side note, I miss true wrestling cowboys, it was a tradition. They all wore those same cowboy-like boots too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 To answer my own question I tracked down the 12/88 Gilbert vs Windham match. Windham plays cocky champ to start, Gilbert gives him more trouble then he was exspecting, Windham gets serious and starts kicking ass, Gilbert proves how tough he is and won't stay down, Windham has to resort to cheating to win. Gilbert gets in his face post match, gets beat down by Flair & Windham for his trouble. Damn good stuff, simple but awesome story telling, the kind of match that makes you wish wrestling were still like this. When matches like this aren't even your high end work you can def point to a guy as one of the best in the world. Â Flair/Windham vs Midnight Express Clash 4 12/7/1988 17:41 Barry Windham vs Eddie Gilbert NWA Sat 12/24/1988 20:43 Barry Windham vs Bam Bam Bigelow Starrcade 88 12/26/1988 16:18 Heck of a month for good ol' BW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 I don't get why people say that heel run was Barry's peak. I think his peak was his face work in JCP. He had a number of excellent matches with Flair, Arn, Tully, Murdoch, Luger, Larry Z, Gilbert (when Gilbert was heel in UWF), and Rotunda, as well as the aforementioned tag matches against Arn & Tully. I guess some of that was in early '88. But I think his face run blows away his work as a heel as far as matches go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 I think I hate Tenryu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm guessing someone is watching the DVDVR 80s set. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm upto 1987. Jumbo looks like a legit GOAT contender. Tenryu has less charisma than Mike Rotunda. I'm watching one of their tags against DiBiase and Hansen. Â As the announcer went through the names, Hansen did his thing popped the crowd, DiBiase the same, we get to Tenryu. As per usual he looks like he just doesn't give shit. Â He barely bothers to raise his arm, the moment has gone. We get to Jumbo, who is already fired up, he raises his arm and we're off. Â Everything about that 1-2 minutes sums up why I hate Tenryu so far. He makes Dean Malenko look like The Rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm less of a fan of pre-Revolution Tenryu than most. I did enjoy his Revolution era stuff opposite Jumbo quite a bit, and have a soft spot in my heart for it since it's what I cut my puroresu teeth on back in 1989. That starts in mid-1987, so you should be hitting it soon. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Tenryu can be called a lot of things (lazy, spotty, goofy, sloppy, not that I agree with this), but uncharismatic I don't get it. I haven't seen that much of Tenryu in the 80's (apart from the JUmbo feud obviously, some matches against Choshu and the whole 1989 year), but he seemed as charismatic as he ever was then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Like I said, he'll need to undergo some sort of transformation from what he's been up till now if my mind is going to change on this. Â The Revolution stuff has started now, I said this over on DVDR: Â Awesome little moment when Tenryu slaps Jumbo, who looks affronted, and then Tenryu backs off a bit looking like a smug prick. Â If Tenryu can somehow develop that dick smug heel character a little bit more, there's still hope of him being someone I rate. He has noticably stepped up a notch on this disc in terms of the intensity of his offence -- still not on Jumbo levels for me, but obviously leagues above the likes of Nakano or Ishikawa and other such scrubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Watching the whole set I got the same vibe from Tenryu, don't get me wrong he is great pretty much from the 1st Jumbo singles match on the set onwards, but up to that point I was expecting more from him. He has some great performances in the Yatsu/Choshu vs. Jumbo/Tenryu series but he also was what I thought the 4th best worker in most of those matches and his singles matches up to that point (vs. Choshu, Mascaras, Kerry Von ERich) I would be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed in most of them. Especially the two matches vs. Choshu. Both of those matches ended up around 110 on my ballot and were still good but with someone like Jumbo, he had classic matches with a guy like Slater, Race, Mascaras, and Von Erich throughout the set and Tenryu seemed to really struggle to put it all together until 1987. This early stage of Tenryus careers has really given me pause to call him the GOAT. Top 10 wrestler of all time, I can agree with that because from 1987-1989 he had some great matches and it is not like he was a compelete stiff in the Jumbo/Tenryu tags, but it just seems to me that the main argument against Misawa as GOAT is that he struggled as Tiger Mask and I in a lot of ways fail to see how his first ten years as a pro where any less disappointing then Tenryu's years from 1976-86. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 I had the same feelings on Tenryu during the AJ set. His pre-1987 stuff kind of made me scratch my head and wonder why everyone thought he was so great. Then 1987 hits and you see it. Â Tenryu in 1987-89 is like a great band that gets accused of not having any stage presence. When you're great, you don't need to run around the stage, leap off the PA system and play guitar solos behind your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Bumped due to a recent realization. As my first post implied, I'm not too big on the New Japan heavies. Last night, it finally hit me as to why: the match structure is to me completely counterintuitive. The initial feeling-out process takes fucking forever while the actual meat of the match feels compressed and rushed. Take the 11/1/90 Chono/Mutoh vs. Hase/Sasaki tag match. Once it gets going, it's incredibly fast-paced, with three separate Ricky Morton segments and the closing stretch in a little over 9 minutes. But in order to get there, you have to sit through nearly 8 minutes of them playing grabass on the mat. This isn't a universal rule, but I find it to be generally true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Knight Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Jun Akiyama really annoys me post-2001 or so. Seen a few things which was suplex-after-suplex and irritating chop battles that turned me off. I probably should have watched early Akiyama before late Akiyama so I didn't have a bad taste in my mouth going into that awesome shit he actually has. The 2/00 Misawa match took me by surprise because I thought he was really great in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Akiyama, after a first awesome few years, is the picture boy for underachiever. Very frustrating to watch in NOAH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Isn't everyone kind of frustrating to watch in NOAH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 It wasn't the case in the 00's at least. I haven't watched a Noah card in years though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Jun Akiyama really annoys me post-2001 or so. Seen a few things which was suplex-after-suplex and irritating chop battles that turned me off. I probably should have watched early Akiyama before late Akiyama so I didn't have a bad taste in my mouth going into that awesome shit he actually has. The 2/00 Misawa match took me by surprise because I thought he was really great in it. Jun pretty much annoys me after 1996. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Knight Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Isn't everyone kind of frustrating to watch in NOAH? There's Takayama, and I haven't ever been annoyed with NOAH Misawa. That's mostly it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 It wasn't the case in the 00's at least. I haven't watched a Noah card in years though. Kobashi was pretty brutal to sit through after about 2001. People were going easy on the guy because he was considered "old" for his big GHC reign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I thought people loved it because:  * he was Kobashi  * it was long lusted after "Kobashi Is The Ace" run  The only match I remember enjoying out of the entire run was Kobashi-Suzuki where Susuki did the "I'll shit on all your pro-style stuff!" gimmick... until it was time to roll over for it. Was enterained by Suzuki's stuff.  John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I honestly don't remember any of his title defenses other than the Nagata one and when he lost the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Knight Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Actually that reminds me, Minoru Suzuki annoys me. A lot. Probably a visceral thing, but yeah, feels liek a guy I "should" like. His oddball hair is terribly distracting though. Â I still like NOAH Kobashi, but I tend to only be really interested if he's facing an opponent I like. I still think the 04 match with Big Tak is likely a top ten MOTD and the best NOAH match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.