Talkin' Stone Cold Violence Against Women Paranoid Blues

[Matt D]

My college football team spent the past decade being asshole bullies. No one likes them other than (i) people who went to the school, or (ii) people who grew up in the area and started watching them as a kid. The rest of the country hates them.

That's the thing, though. The people who went to the school.

 

WWF was inclusive. If you were a WWF Fan, that was enough. That was like going to the school. Then the bully was on your side.

 

As for Stone Cold, there are plenty of examples of him being a bully and stunnering people that didn't deserve it.

 

Stunnering HHH or The Big Show isn't bullying.

 

Stunnering Holly every week for a year and stealing his beer money is bullying.

 

The notion that the WWF/WWE is like a school where everyone roots for everyone on the team is nonsensical. Hogan vs Savage in MSG in early 1986. They're both on the WWF "team". So were the fans rooting for both?

 

Savage-Steamer at Mania the next year. Both on the WWF Team. Fans rooting for both? Were the rooting for the clear bully in it (Savage)?

 

Folks don't root for true bullies. They think they're cocksuckers.

 

John

 

The fans root for the babyfaces. The babyfaces are on your team. The heels are on the other team. At least in 80s WWF. I don't think that's a crazy notion.

 

And as for Austin, I was thinking Stacy

[jdw]

The fans root for the babyfaces. The babyfaces are on your team. The heels are on the other team. At least in 80s WWF. I don't think that's a crazy notion.

Savage is the bully: the clearest bully in the WWF at the time.

 

Steamboat was the Ultimate Babyface.

 

The fans rooted for who again?

 

 

And as for Austin, I was thinking Stacy

 

You're rolling out something after Austin retired?

 

Anyway, Stone Cold was sharing his beer with her. Would any bully share his favorite drink with someone he didn't like? Stacy heeled it up by showing she didn't like the beer, being kind of ungratefully about the generosity of Stone Cold's soft heart. So Stone Cold stunnered her.

 

Granted, I'm not a fan of dudes beating up chicks, so I tend to see Stone Cold as being an asshole in that (other than beating this shit out of Steiner, who was a douchebag).

 

John

[jdw]

BTW... one has to give it up to Stacy for bagging Clooney.

 

John

[Mad Dog]

Jericho putting her in his finisher pissed me off way more. Granted I was younger at the time, and way more sensitive to man-on-woman violence. I still am to some degree. When I saw the Austin thing I kinda rolled my eyes at it, but didn't get too pissy about it. Mostly because it looks so easy to take, whereas a boston crab would involve some degree of pain, unless she's really flexible...I should probably stop talking before this gets too NSFW.

The Austin situation was far worse because he had just recently been arrested for beating his wife Debra. Take that context into the Stacy Stunner and it's one of the most disgusting things the WWE has ever done.

[Victator]

Jericho putting her in his finisher pissed me off way more. Granted I was younger at the time, and way more sensitive to man-on-woman violence. I still am to some degree. When I saw the Austin thing I kinda rolled my eyes at it, but didn't get too pissy about it. Mostly because it looks so easy to take, whereas a boston crab would involve some degree of pain, unless she's really flexible...I should probably stop talking before this gets too NSFW.

The Austin situation was far worse because he had just recently been arrested for beating his wife Debra. Take that context into the Stacy Stunner and it's one of the most disgusting things the WWE has ever done.

 

To me when you have been exposed to real violence, especially real domestic violence. Trying to equate it to something like a Stone Cold Stunner borders on offensive. It's not quite calling a Road Runner cartoon animal cruelty, but its in the neighborhood.

[El-P]

Stone Cold beating on a woman in the WWF while at the same time he was really beating on Debra in real life IS offensive.

[Log]

Stone Cold beating on a woman in the WWF while at the same time he was realling beating on Debra in real life IS offensive.

Exactly.

 

On top of that, from a kayfabe, storyline perspective, it was totally unnecessary. There was no storyline reason for it to happen. Stacey wasn't managing a rival of Austin's. She hadn't interfered in a match. This led to nothing.

 

It's not only offensive, but also nonsensical.

[Victator]

Stone Cold beating on a woman in the WWF while at the same time he was really beating on Debra in real life IS offensive.

The next week he dropped an anvil on Trish Stratus. That monster doesn't know when to stop.

[Ronnie]

It's not only offensive, but also nonsensical.

I didn't find it much of anything precisely because it was so nonsensical, such a stupid thing to put on their programme that I couldn't be bothered to acknowledge it. I didn't feel like getting offended at such a stupid thing. Why script him to hit his MurderDeathKill move (or 'Wile E' Special, if that's how Victator wants to see it) on a very pleasant woman who politely declined his offer of a beer? Stupid. I don't think it warranted giving it any attention, never mind getting offended. I think it deserved the equivalent of a dud match; silence from the crowd rather than cheers or boos.

 

But Stone Cold has made for uncomfortable viewing in the past, regarding his intimidation of females. I think that even Victator might acknowledge that this scene isn't cartoony in the slightest, and is much more indicative of what happens in millions of homes around the world. I don't even care that there was a storyline reason for him to be so apoplectically angry; the audience wasn't cheering him as the put-upon hero standing up for himself. At least JR was alert enough to react as though it were thoroughly unjustifiable conduct.

[Victator]

I think if you have been exposed to real violence in your life, especially real domestic violence. Comparing it to a wrestling show is stupid. It genuinely offends me. To see someone equate a guy doing a bullshit wrestling move to a valet to a man beating his wife.

 

Unless the wrestler wraps his fist in a towel and punches the woman in the face, I could give a shit. It's like getting offended over the Dragonball Z episode where Trunks killed Android 18.

 

I'm not even sure why Austin is mad. He's the one who tried to kill HHH by dropping his car (with HHH inside) from two stories high using a forklift.

But no I don't particularly care that he yelled at Stephanie Mcmahon. No more than I gave a shit when he made her dad piss his pants by pretending to shoot him.

[Johnny Sorrow]

But Stone Cold has made for uncomfortable viewing in the past, regarding his intimidation of females. I think that even Victator might acknowledge that this scene isn't cartoony in the slightest, and is much more indicative of what happens in millions of homes around the world. I don't even care that there was a storyline reason for him to be so apoplectically angry; the audience wasn't cheering him as the put-upon hero standing up for himself. At least JR was alert enough to react as though it were thoroughly unjustifiable conduct.

Awww, did Austin make the heel girlfriend/ wife cry? Boo hoo.

[El-P]

I don't even care that there was a storyline reason for him to be so apoplectically angry; the audience wasn't cheering him as the put-upon hero standing up for himself. At least JR was alert enough to react as though it were thoroughly unjustifiable conduct.

One of the reasons I hated the Attitude Era audience so much : cheering violence against women. When heel Dudleys putting women through table gets huge pop instead of chorus of boos, something is wrong.

[smkelly]

The ones that really bothered me was when Mae Young was taking bumps half the roster wouldn't take. And she was triple most of their ages. I just didn't understand the payoff of those bumps. Made the Dudley's more hated, sure, but at what risk? I'm no doctor, but I hardly doubt a woman of her advanced age should be taking bumps off stages or through tables coming off the top rope.

 

But if you want to see where man on woman violence crossed many lines, then watch Necro versus LuFisto. I have thick skin and that match bothered me. It bothered the announcers and the crowd as well (in most cases).

 

But taking a stunner or being starred down...eh. I never cheered it but I won't judge those who did. Our planet is full of fucked up things.

[MikeCampbell]

My friends and I all laughed a bit when Bubba put Mae through the table, and she took more of a bump from it (and it's clear that Bubba is protecting her on the way down) than Terri Runnels had the week before.

[rainmakerrtv]

Sigh, nice thread we had going here , once upon a time.

[jdw]

Perhaps all the Stone Cold stuff can be split off into a Stone Cold thread. It's actually not a bad topic for people to discuss and give some thought. But it is a side drain from this thread.

 

John

[rainmakerrtv]

To split this off from the Hulk Hogan : Poor Sportsman thread, if you want to discuss the above mentioned side topic, please do it here.

[rainmakerrtv]

Perhaps all the Stone Cold stuff can be split off into a Stone Cold thread. It's actually not a bad topic for people to discuss and give some thought. But it is a side drain from this thread.

 

John

Done and done.

[jdw]

The comment was more in the sense of Loss using his magic admin powers to split off the Austin posts from the other thread. I think IP Boards has that ability from the Admin side.

 

John

[rainmakerrtv]

Ah, sorry, maybe they can move them into this thread, or just delete this thread. Whatever.

[Ricky Jackson]

Don't you dare delete a thread with such an awesome title.

[Bix]

Austin stunning Keibler was really bad. Having said that, ending Raw with a non-sequitur giant beer bash on the day that his probation for the domestic abuse charges (which forbade him from drinking alcohol) ended felt like it was actively celebrating him beating up Debra.

[Mad Dog]

To respond to whoever was comparing it to cartoonish violence like Wile E. Coyote.

 

I didn't talk about Hogan messing with Sherri, Lawler punching out a different valet every Monday night, the Dudleys putting Mae Young through a table or Tommy Dreamer piledriving Francine. I mean not agree with those but I tend to agree with you, it's cartoon violence and in no way real. The Austin Stunner was different from all of those over examples I just mentioned. Why? Because a month or two before he laid Keibler out with that Stunner he was in fucking handcuffs for smacking around his real life wife Debra. That's why it goes beyond being a cartoon. It was offensive because they were glorifying him laying her out when he was having very real legal problems because he was abusing his wife. Had he not been beating the shit out of his wife, I wouldn't have given a crap about it.

[MJH]

But if you want to see where man on woman violence crossed many lines, then watch Necro versus LuFisto. I have thick skin and that match bothered me. It bothered the announcers and the crowd as well (in most cases).

This one?:

 

Aside from looking like a horrible match, that's exactly how a man vs. woman match should go, isn't it? She steps out to prove herself, gives as good as she gets, and wins in the end. It looks like Necro took far worse of a beating actually.

 

***

 

I don't know enough (well, any) of the context around the Austin/Debra thing, but having him give Stacey a stunner on the day of the verdict for no reason whatsoever... it doesn't offend me, but it's asking/begging for other people to be offended. Being consciously offensive isn't always a bad thing, but that scenario is not the one to take such a stance for.

 

***

 

As for Dudleys beating up women... it should've lead to Chyna taking them on (and beating them).

 

You could do the same thing nowadays with Beth (or Kong if she comes back) and I'd be fully behind the company against whatever "controversy" people sought from it, if that's the direction of the angle. Chyna was shit, but a good feminist/equality angle in wrestling: well, it's about time.

 

But doing it for the cheap pop without it even being any kind of pay-off to her causing them hell/costing them the titles/etc for a while... again, you're just asking for trouble. It doesn't offend me (it might've even been Mae's idea for all we know... Terri/Trish could've been good friends with Bubba who might've been a lovely cuddly teddy-bear character backstage looking out for the girls... it's fake) but it's such a contentious issue that you need a defensable reason for doing it. "Shock factor" obviously isn't.

[Bix]

Lawler punching out a different valet every Monday night

Not that it makes it more acceptable but I'm pretty sure that only happened once.