Loss Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Liking wrestling doesn't require one to like all wrestling. People who like and dislike aspects of what they watch are still fans. Argue the points people make, not the "negativity". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I've always just gone after what I like. I've never cared one way or the other what anyone else thinks or has to say about that. I don't like ECW that much. I don't like All Japan that much. I hate RoH. I love WCW even when it was bad. I love New Japan. I love CMLL. I love Dragon Gate. I love Chikara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 When a person is negative week after week, it's get very old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Especially when they say over and over and over again. "I didn't watch it! I'm glad! It's terrible!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Well yeah, I see no reason to make "I'm glad I didn't watch" posts. To tell you the truth, I don't watch most weeks because modern WWE isn't really what I like in wrestling. It's a shame there's not a wrestling company out there that consistently has what I like, because if there was, I would watch that. So most of the time, the "If you don't like it, don't watch" applies to me, because I don't watch because I don't like it most of the time. The few times I do tune in (Punk angle, the Muppets), I end up remembering why I stopped watching. WWE is reliable for good matches pretty regularly, but the things I like the most in wrestling (traditional promos that hype matches, winning streaks and championship runs that last a long time, long-term booking with continuity that acknowledges the past and makes sense, wins and losses that matter and are remembered) aren't really things I can find anywhere these days. What you're seeing right now is someone waiting on the '95 yearbook to arrive who will happily go back to ignoring 2011 as soon as there's something else I can focus on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Loss, have you tried NWA Hollywood at all? It has it's flaws but it has several of the attributes you seem to want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flairchops Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 So I will talk about the new stuff that I like: I like the new ROH program. Could it be better? Sure. Is it as good as older ROH? No. But every Saturday night I get to watch a wrestling show on one of my five basic cable channels and nothing on the show is stupid, so that makes it a lot of fun for me. I love Dragon Gate (Japan, not US, huge difference, IMHO). I'm way behind on stuff this year, but hope to catch up over my winter break. Suggestions on what to catch from this year would be appreciated. I want to like current NJPW but haven't had a chance to watch much and don't know any of the guys so it's hard to get into it. And that's about it really. I like NWA Hollywood for the most part, but don't watch it regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I don't like modern wrestling so I don't watch it. I remember not liking the WWF when it would get silly in the 80s and 90s, but I'd still watch it. I remember not liking WCW when Russo came aboard and it went off the deep end, but I watched until it folded. Now when I go back and watch the gimmicky stuff from the WWF and some horrible Russo-era WCW, it's kinda fun. I wonder if I watched the current product despite hating it if I'd go back 10 years later and get a kick out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 WWE, especially RAW IS the wrestling world. When a young boy has aspirations of becoming a professional wrestler, they're not thinking of growing up to have matches in Ring of Honor in front of ~500 fans. They're picturing the same dream that The Miz pictured. RAW is the flagship show of the biggest wrestling promotion in the world. IN THE WORLD. If you don't watch RAW, you're out of the loop. It's as simple as that. No one knows who Davey Richards is but even my 52-year-old mother knows who Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold are. Nowadays they know John Cena. Personally speaking, contrary to popular belief, I *like* being in the loop. I like talking to my friends all week about what went down. I like being able to listen to The LAW or F4W & see if we have similar opinions. I like being able to kill time throughout the week on various message forums, such as here or DVDVR, or The Board or Something Awful & compare opinions, discuss current happenings, speculate on directions things are heading in & what not. I tried not watching RAW & guess what? That sucks worse than watching it & thinking it stinks. It doesn't matter if RAW is bad. It doesn't matter if I'm mostly negative. I'm in the loop! If you don't watch RAW you know what you are? You're the guy that shits up threads as you talk about 70's territories & how shows "sound" bad because you read the spoilers. Or how "WWE is bad" despite not watching it for five years so you really don't know what the Hell you're even talking about. I've been that guy & I sucked. At least if you watch the show & are still negative your opinions have some validity. You're not completely jaded by the tone of the author for the spoilers. It's a consistent & constant stream of new discussion. Every week, every show, there's new stuff that everyone can express their opinions on. How many times can you talk about the same Jumbo matches with the same three people? Why do I not watch TNA most weeks? Because it doesn't matter if I miss it. Why do I not watch Smackdown most weeks? Because it doesn't matter if I miss it. Why do I not watch ROH? Because it doesn't matter if I miss it. Sure other factors might be involved, like a conflicting schedule or enjoyment of each different example but ultimately they all have that in common: they don't matter. If you miss RAW though? I feel a week behind everywhere I go. My circle of friends, radio shows, message forums... even Facebook or Twitter! If you're a wrestling fan, you watch RAW. Just like you watch Royal Rumble & you watch Wrestlemania. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one that feels that way but judging by things that people like C.M. Punk says, I don't think I am. "People will complain about it. Then continue to watch next week." It's true! I feel like a lot of internet fans today are just like the elitist music nuts that like a band until they get a record deal or a music video. Then suddenly they're too mainstream or sold out or whatever. Dare I say it started with ECW in wrestling. Everyone wants to be more underground or whatever... but you know the lyrics to those Metallica songs. Just like you can talk about Dragongate or SMASH or NWA Hollywood.. but you'll still watch Wrestlemania & you still know John Cena's catchphrases. When a person is negative week after week, it's get very old.What's more annoying, the guy that is negative every week or the guy that calls him out for being negative every week? At least the guy being negative is talking about the subject not derailing the thread or flame-baiting. I still love the same people that complain about WWE every week yet still watch or my personal favorite the people that DON"T watch WWE and complain about it every chance they get. There is an answer for you people. DON"T FUCKING WATCH THEIR TELEVISION. I'm a Green Bay Packers NFL football fan. I have been since 1993, when I was twelve years old. They won the Super Bowl last year. They're currently undefeated this year. I still find things to complain about, despite that fact that I'm as happy as a fan can possibly be right now. So if I talk about the secondary, or the special teams or the running game in a negative light, does that mean I'm not a real fan or should stop watching their games? Of course not. And you know what, if the Packers are knocked out of the playoffs, I'll still watch the Super Bowl. Just like if John Cena is in the main event of Wrestlemania, even if I'm not a huge fan of his, I'll still watch that pay-per-view & I'll still have a right to complain about it before & after too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 What's more annoying, the guy that is negative every week or the guy that calls him out for being negative every week? At least the guy being negative is talking about the subject not derailing the thread or flame-baiting. I'd say the former because if they didn't do it, the latter wouldn't exist or at least not so much. I don't mind people being negative if they watched the show or even clips. But it's the people that are negative even before the show starts and say "all wrestling sucks now and I'm gonna tell you that over and over and over again" that annoy me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 The point that I think a lot of the "If you don't like it, don't watch it!" people seem to be missing (and I'm singling you out Kris, I'm just talking generally here) is that the people who watch every single week, yet complain constantly about it, are the most loyal fans there are. They're the ones who clearly give a damn about the company and actively WANT to see things get better and hit the highs of previous years. If things get so bad to the point that THOSE sort of fans are driven away, that's when there's a big problem. There's two good stories of this in "The Death of WCW" Bischoff was asked in '98, during a prodigy chat, about WCW's shows all starting to look the same and become predictable. His reply was that they were selling out all over, making big money on PPVs, and doing big ratings, so obviously things were perfectly fine. Fast foward a couple of years to when WCW was doing record lows, and Time Warner's focus groups were showing what people actually wanted to see and Russo just had it thrown out because it wasn't what he wanted to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Basically this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I don't watch all that much wrestling anymore. I have stockpiled DVDs for the last few years and have hardly watched a 1/4 of them. When I watch wrestling, I stick to matches, never entire shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Basically this: In general, I agree with the principle of that... even if I'm pretty shitty about practicing it. On the other hand, there are things like in the middle of the worst of Russo WCW where you kind of need to be a dick to get across just how shitty it was. I think we all have plenty of things where we were a dick and wish we weren't... some more than others. *raises hand* In turn, my guess is that there are things we wouldn't take back. I don't think I'd take back anything I ever said to RYDER, Mr. Schemer or their goofy sidekicks back in the days of their various tOA run ins. Lots of other dickishness... but that? I think most of us are like that, again some more than others. A number of us probably had a discussion here along those lines about WP and the hammering he took over the years. Justified? That's the rub: everyone thinks a lot of their own personal dickishness is justified at the time. *raises hand* :/ John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 In general, I agree with the principle of that... even if I'm pretty shitty about practicing it. On the other hand, there are things like in the middle of the worst of Russo WCW where you kind of need to be a dick to get across just how shitty it was. I think we all have plenty of things where we were a dick and wish we weren't... some more than others. *raises hand* In turn, my guess is that there are things we wouldn't take back. I don't think I'd take back anything I ever said to RYDER, Mr. Schemer or their goofy sidekicks back in the days of their various tOA run ins. Lots of other dickishness... but that? I think most of us are like that, again some more than others. A number of us probably had a discussion here along those lines about WP and the hammering he took over the years. Justified? That's the rub: everyone thinks a lot of their own personal dickishness is justified at the time. *raises hand* :/ John I would suggest that paying dickishness unto dickishness is...well, I hesitate to say "justified", but perhaps "justifiable". It's certainly more of a grey area. And a lot more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE(CM Punk) "People will complain about it. Then continue to watch next week." It's true! That has been a talking point for years. Quick lets compare 2011 Raw Ratings to 2000 Raw Ratings. Or better yet lets look at what buyrate Halloween Havoc 2011 got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 That's not a road you want to go down because it just leads to nonsense about different amount of people watching television and DVR's and all that crap. Besides, I don't think Punk meant in general, I think he more means internet fans that have been watching for years. They're not going away. Casual fans obviously come and go. Right now wrestling isn't popular, so they left. UFC got hot and they have PPV with a million buys. I remember when pro-wrestling shirts used to be sold in the mall at one time. You can't really replicate that. Through the peaks and valleys, ups and downs, the one constant seems to be the long-time fans. Granted they all, for the most part, seem to be very negative and pessimistic (at least on the internet), but they still watch and I'm sure are a big portion of the viewing audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Pessimistic? Consider this. I would be surprised if anyone disagrees with me, although some may. 95% of the time, wrestling sucks and is embarrassing to watch in front of other people. Probably 98% of the time, things that start off well end terribly. But the remaining small percentage is pretty good and sometimes awesome. Every wrestling fan is trained to put up with a certain amount of crap because you never know when you're going to get something good. It's that small percentage that keeps me watching, because when it's good, it's usually really good. I'm not saying that to bash the modern scene, by the way. This has been the case as long as I have watched, probably longer. I also find it interesting that Coffey looks at modern WWE as a social thing, considering that I currently don't know anyone in real life that watches wrestling, and even during the peaks of the Attitude era didn't know very many people who did. Some people think the complaining is annoying. To me, nothing is more annoying than people telling other people they shouldn't dislike something, because the company still makes money. It's a bad argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the point is they trot out "Oh they complain and still watch." and its not true. Hell compared to a decade ago I'm nowhere near a regular viewer. I watch tons of old shit, but I probably catch Raw once a month. Taking this attitude you can treat your most dedicated fans like shit has eroded the fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I also find it interesting that Coffey looks at modern WWE as a social thing, considering that I currently don't know anyone in real life that watches wrestling, and even during the peaks of the Attitude era didn't know very many people who did. It's a weird deal, because the only people I know that watch wrestling these days are friends of mine who, like myself and all of us on this board, have been watching off and on for years and are part of the 5% (or whatever the number might be) of fans for whom wrestling is more than just a casual interest. Ten years ago was a different story, as I knew tons of people who watched wrestling religiously who had no idea about the inner workings, shoot names of wrestlers, used insider terminology, etc.,--that is, those in the 95% bracket. Where are they now? Obviously there are millions of the 95% out there, as Raw still draws ratings that only a handful of cable shows can match. I meet up with former wrestling fans all the time. The story is always the same: they can talk about Austin, the Rock, Foley, Undertaker, Goldberg, Hogan, etc., but have little to no knowledge of anything that has happened in wrestling in the last 7-8 years. (It's always funny when I ask these former fans if they have ever watched TNA, which, besides saying "no", usually garners some variation of the response "What a stupid name") It seems like wrestling in 2011 is extremely uncool, almost like it was in the mid-90s, and that Raw's ratings should really be in the tank, but they are not, and millions still watch every week. It's one of life's great mysteries. I think that there is always a large group of closet wrestling fans out there just waiting for wrestling to be cool again so they can talk about it in public without ridicule. Until then, they will remain the silent majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the point is they trot out "Oh they complain and still watch." and its not true. Hell compared to a decade ago I'm nowhere near a regular viewer. I watch tons of old shit, but I probably catch Raw once a month. Taking this attitude you can treat your most dedicated fans like shit has eroded the fanbase. And the idea of PAYING for a WWE product? That's madness to me right now. But we used to get together and buy PPVs in high school/college and split the bill all the time. And I bought a bunch of WWE dvds up until 04 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I was in high school when the attitude and few people talked about it at my school. What's wrong with paying for the WWE product if you like it? I'm going to Mania and I'll probably buy Royal Rumble. Why should I care what other people think if I enjoy it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I meant madness for me in my life as it is now. Just that I couldn't fathom dropping money on it right now. (and that's not wrestling in general. I bought the Will's Dangerous Alliance comp last year after all). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wondering if it's worth getting that DA comp on top of 92 yearbook? Next month is pretty much solidly All Japan for me, but just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 That's probably better for the "What Are You Watching In November" thread than the theme of this thread. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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