Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3

[Nighthawk]

Since I'm breaking my PWO seal, i figured this would be the exact right place to do it.

 

I just wondered if anyone had ever heard of any legitimately good pro wrestling that happened in the Caribbean outside of Puerto Rico. It's one of those real wrestling dead zones, and I'm always terribly intrigued if anything happened there.

Nassau and Freeport in the Bahamas were regular stops for the Florida office.

 

Thank you. Now to do research and try and figure out if any of those stops in the Bahamas used local workers, or if it was all people from the Florida office.

[KrisZ]

They were all Florida talent other than Tyree Pride who would work Florida regularly later on.

[El Boricua]

Capitol Sports would run Trinidad and the Virgin Islands. In Trinidad they had local guys like Ray Apollo and Thunderbolt Williams. In the Virgin Islands the top star was Victor Jovica. They would also sometimes have shows in Haiti.

 

Some of the Capitol Sports talent would work in the Dominican, but this was a separate promotion. It was Dominicana de Espectaculos (an NWA affiliate). The top names there were Jack Veneno, Relampago Hernandez, Astroman, the Broncos and others. Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with wrestling in the Caribbean outside of Puerto Rico (outside of the top names that would sometimes appear in Puerto Rico). I do know that the wrestling was shown on the station Color Vision in the Dominican. They would be the ones to have footage.

 

I did find a video on Youtube with some pics of some notable matches from the Dominican.

 

 

There's also a Facebook page that talks about Dominican wrestling.

 

https://es-es.facebook.com/luchalibrerepublicadominicana

 

There's also a clip from a certain famous match.

 

 

According to some commenters, it was apparently for the DWE belt (with Flair challenging), not the NWA title. Similar to what Carlos Colon did in PR.

[Matt D]

Now you need to act as middleman so Will and his wrestling conglomerate can purchase all of this footage from Color Vision.

[Nighthawk]

And this is why I love this board. Also, i discovered Tyree Pride and I sort of want him to manage a collection of young babyfaces now.

[El Boricua]

I don't know how amenable the TV station would be to such an overture, but it doesn't help that I'm a country away and a foreigner. One would have a better shot with a connected or knowledgeable native.

[pantherwagner]

Somebody may remember the exact details but back when I was into DVD trading (so we are talking 2007 or earlier) I think there was somebody who had the complete Jack Veneno vs Ric Flair match but didn't want to release it for reasons I can't remember. Apparently the match was replayed even decades after the fact.

 

This youtube channel seems to have a little bit of footage, not sure how good this is or isn't. Most of it seems to be IWA Japan mid 90s though.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/luchalibreboxeoymma/videos

[pantherwagner]

I am more interested in wrestling in Guatemala actually. I have a few lucha libre mags from there somewhere in my parents' house. Gimmicks seemed to be very wacky, in the vein of Titanes or Super Muneco from Mexico: they had a fake Parka, clowns, etc.

 

Style is similar to the Mexican style but they didn't seem to use dives and didn't do trios matches as often.

 

To my knowledge there's only a tape around which was actually my tape that was converted to DVD by Bob Barnett. I got it from Kurt Brown who got it from an old historian whose name I can't recall now, who I used to know and has got this massive collection of old and rare tapes but he's not into trading (he's a memorabilia guy) so he doesn't even know what he's got.

 

If you have never seen Jorge Mendoza check this out. This is from 1991 if I recall correctly.

 

[GSR]

Somebody may remember the exact details but back when I was into DVD trading (so we are talking 2007 or earlier) I think there was somebody who had the complete Jack Veneno vs Ric Flair match but didn't want to release it for reasons I can't remember. Apparently the match was replayed even decades after the fact.

 

This youtube channel seems to have a little bit of footage, not sure how good this is or isn't. Most of it seems to be IWA Japan mid 90s though.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/luchalibreboxeoymma/videos

It was DJMIKENICE over on Crazy Max. Made a huge deal at the time that he was off on a trip to the Dominican to go and source and get a copy of this match. Returned and claimed he found a copy, but then decided he didn't want to shill it and just wanted to keep it for himself (despite the fact that he had plenty of people prepared silly money (by Crazy Max standards) for a copy of it). Fast forward to earlier this year, and he tried to run some elaborate grab bag con 'where one lucky customer would receive the copy of Flair vs Veneno'. After some investigative work it transpired he never had a copy in the first place and it was BS all along and just some way to try and get himself over on a forum.

[pantherwagner]

Hahaha I remember that now. So, people, when your life looks like it's a bit shit and it can't get any worse, remember that there's somebody in Crazy Max who tried to get "himself over" by doing that.

[El Boricua]

When you mention Titanes, is that Titanes en el Ring from Argentina? La Momia! For those that don't know about Titanes, here's a video showing of the wrestlers they had:

 

 

A few months ago a Guatemalan talk show did a special show on the history of lucha libre in Guatemala. Here's the link to the show if anyone is interested:

 

 

Apparently the current state of wrestling in Guatemala can be described as alive but not doing so well. The person interviewed at the beginning, Perseo, is part of a blog dedicated to the history of wrestling in Guatemala:

 

http://luchalibreguatemala.wordpress.com/

 

They have pictures, profiles, blurbs and some videos on there. Here is a direct link to their about page, with a summary of Guatemalan wrestling history:

 

http://luchalibreguatemala.wordpress.com/about/

[vikingsfan73]

The IOC voted to keep wrestling in the Olympics. Very excited to see this happen!

 

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/2...;nclick_check=1

[Minds_Eys]

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/pa...osses-dan-gable

 

Very interesting article about Dan Gable written by ESPN's Wright Thompson.

[KrisZ]

The IOC voted to keep wrestling in the Olympics. Very excited to see this happen!

 

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/2...;nclick_check=1

Triple H ‏@TripleH 59m

 

Congrats.... Wrestling back in the Olympics.... Now that's "Best for Business"!!!!!!!

[El Boricua]

I happened to be looking at Jack Veneno's Spanish Wikipedia page and here are some interesting items from the article:

 

- His nickname was "El campeon de la bolita del mundo" (The champion of the small ball of the world).

- Got his wrestling name from a book he read titled Jack el Veneno.

- His famed hold was called La Polemica (a sleeperhold).

- Became interested in wrestling from the movies El Santo did. From there he would go to the shows a local promoter did with Mexican wrestlers.

- Made his professional debut in 1969.

- To not worry his mother he wore a mask initially but was found out eventually. The mother accepted that this is what he wanted to do.

- Made appearances for WWC in Puerto Rico in the 70's, held the North American tag titles with Jose Rivera on one occasion.

- Beat Jhon Richard for his first world title.

- His arch rival was Relampago Hernandez.

- In the 70's his fiercest rivals were Los Hermanos Muerte, specifically Muerte 1.

- Apparently faced off against wrestlers such as Adrian Street, Killer Khan, El Monje Loco (from Guatemala), Nick Bockwinkel, Taras Bulba (article states this one is from Ecuador).

- His most bitter match was against Mexican Buddy Montes, who suffered a heart attack while wrestling Veneno and died in the hospital.

- Dominicana de Espectaculos was run by Arcadio Brito (wrestled as Vampiro Cao).

- Had a three match series with Ric Flair in 1982.

- First match was Jan. 7 of 1982. Flair and Veneno wrestled for 16 minutes. Veneno had Flair in his sleeperhold when Relampago Hernandez interfered and caused a DQ. Sabud, a tecnico, came to Veneno's

aid. Also on the card were Carlos Colon vs. Relampago Hernandez and Victor Jovica & Sabud vs. Kimba & Cruz Diablo.

- A rematch occurred months later, the time limit ran out as Veneno had Flair in the sleeperhold again.

- Apparently defeated Tommy Rich on a card in Puerto Rico to become the top contender to the World title again.

- The third match occurs on August 29. Flair was accompanied for this match by Roddy Piper. The match ended when Veneno countered a Flair suplex attempt with a roll up and got the three (this is different from the match clip posted earlier, the clip could be from a different match or this recap may be wrong). Other matches on that card included Victor Jovica vs. Roddy Piper and El Caballero Negro vs. Relampago Hernandez.

- Mentions the reasons for Veneno not being recognized as champion as being either Flair calling the audible to avoid discontent from the public or Veneno refusing to defend the title around the world and having to return it.

- Veneno became a cultural icon after the Flair series and the show "Luchja Libre Internacional" exploded in popularity.

- There was a section on the show where Veneno and the announcers would hand out to kids different popular products of the time, such as sausages, shoeshine kits and malts.

- Besides his famed rivalry with Relamapgo Hernandez, Veneno also had a rivalry with Hugo Savinovich. Hugo and Relampago formed a tag team called Los Desalmados (you could translate it as the Heartless Ones).

- Hugo defeated Veneno twice and won Veneno's Dominican championship. This rivalry included cage matches and barbed wire matches. Hugo first wrestled in the Dominican in 1976 and started his feud with Veneno in 1981.

- Hugo wrestles as the masked El Hoimbre Simio (The Ape Man) in 1981 and lost his mask against the masked Puño de Hierro (Iron Fist). Hugo would attack Veneno that night with a piece of wood during the latter's lumberjack match against the Bounty Hunter and that's how their feud started.

- Other rivals for Veneno included Puño de Hierro (when Hierro turned rudo), El Galeno, Astroman, Sweet Daddy Davis, The Animal, Jason The Terrible, Hiroshi Hatanaka, Señor Lanza (from Argentina), among others.

- Veneno was tag champs with Puño de Hierro, El Caballero Negro, and Maravilla among others.

- Arcadio Brito passes away in the late 80's and Veneno assumes control of Dominicana de Espectaculos. The company's direction takes a different turn.

- During 1990, a rival fed is formed called the Dominican Wrestling Federation. It was comprised from the beginning by some of the best wrestlers from Dominicana de Espectaculos, such as Relámpago Hernández, Los Hermanos Broncos (Bronco #1 being the main figure), Johnny Gómez, Kimba, El Galeno, among others.

- The DWF started beating Dominicana de Espectaculos in the ratings and Veneno started losing popularity. The DWF was bringing in wrestlers from Puerto Rico such as Colón, El Invader #1, Huracán Castillo Jr. and Hugo Savinovich. They held talent exchanges with WWC (this is how Bronco 1 vcame to Puerto Rico).

- The DWF lasted two years before ceasing activity. It is rumored Veneno had something to do with that fed's disappearance.

- Dominicana de Espectaculos would chang eit's name to "Raff Sanzz Promotions", the abbreviated real name of Jack Veneno (it is Rafael Sanchez). The company folded in 1995.

- A lot of people feel the company went under because Veneno mismanaged it and would only push himself and not give younger talent their chance.

- After retirement, Veneno got into politics.

 

Overall some interesting tidbits.

[JerryvonKramer]

Random note: did JCP / WCW during the 80s and early 90s have way more injuries than WWF or were they just unlucky with the timings of the injuries affecting their angles and big events? Or was Vince better at hiding injuries?

[El Boricua]

First impression response would be that NWA/WCW was more unlucky with the timing and WWF having better and logical back ups to turn to. Let's look at the injuries during the time frame.

 

WWF:

 

Paul Orndorff worked through his injury and caused permanent nerve damage to his arm.

Dynamite Kid was out for a while, but was substituted for in the title matches for a spell. Makes an appearance to drop the titles and then comes back a bit too soon.

Jake Roberts has a neck injury from Honky's guitar shot but works through it. Between his drug and legal problems still gets some time off during the next two years.

Rick Martel in 1990 was taken out of SummerSlam but was still able to appear on TV to start his feud with Jake. The angle itself helped since Jake was out of commission due to the attack and Martel could heal up.

Randy Savage was injured when he started his feud with Warrior but they were able to work through it with him doing interviews and run in attacks.

Sid gets injured and they have Savage step in to replace him on the house shows against Jake. The focus of the feud was related to Savage anyway.

Flair is injured and quickly drops the belt to Bret.

 

NWA/WCW:

 

Magnum has his car wreck. Dusty turns Nikita in a bit of inspired booking, but they really didn't have a back-up. In fairness, kind of tough to have some back-up to your rising star/future ace.

Sting's injury in 90 was again a case of not having a credible back-up since they had basically dumped all other viable top of the card options (Funk retired, Muta was cut off at Starrcade, Steamboat had left some months earlier, Flair had just become the top heel again).

 

I'm kind of drawing a blank about what other notable injuries NWA/WCW had around that time.

 

What injuries did you have in mind when making the random note?

[ohtani's jacket]

Who was the chubby Mexican guy with the curly hair and moustache who was often at CMLL and AAA shows in the 90s? He would wear leather jackets and studded clothes or full body suits. He seemed to be a celebrity or something.

[jdw]

I'm kind of drawing a blank about what other notable injuries NWA/WCW had around that time.

Hawk broke his leg leading into Starcade '86, though I think the injury happened in Japan.

 

Cornette blew out his knee at Starcade '86. I think he reinjured it a few times after that.

 

Terry Taylor's car wreck in 1987. Chris Champion & Sean Royal had one around the same time.

 

Animal had the orbital bone injury in the weightlifting challenge, which would have been 1988.

 

Windham was injured at the time of his '89 dropping the US Title to Lex, was suppose to have it worked on, and then went to the WWF instead. Of course his knee injury with the NWA Title in 1993, which he screwed up again in 1994.

 

Scott Steiner injured himself several times.

 

Steamer's back went out in 1994, though that's likely later than the period you're looking at.

 

There were some minor ones, like Robert Gibson has a short one in Oct 1986.

 

There probably are more, but like several of the WWF ones you mentioned, guys just worked through it.

[El Boricua]

Another one was Sid's punctured lung in 89. Also Rick Rude at the end of 92.

 

On the WWF side there was also Harley Race in 88.

 

But most of the mentioned injuries really didn't affect things as much as the ones to Magnum and Sting.

[jdw]

Sting's was pretty minor. Just two PPV, and let them turn Lex back face. Sting got his belt in July.

 

Maggie... it's one of those "shit happens" moments.

 

John

[Nighthawk]

Do you have to have a certain amount of seniority to start a thread in the Microscope or can anyone do it?

[Ricky Jackson]

Anyone.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Some thread at DVDVR stirred up a memory of seeing Flair, Tully and Baby Doll, Larry Z, and Dick Wohrle on some Philly morning show in the 80's. A bit of looking around, and I found it. I haven't seen this in 27 years, but it's still awesome.

 

 

[rovert]

The PWTorch site has started uploading John Arezzi's old Pro Wrestling Wrestling Spotlight radio show:

 

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/VIP_Exc...ml#.Ui8MW9Iw3ow

 

This is the September 9, 1994 episode of Pro Wrestling Spotlight hosted by John Arezzi with special guest PWTorch editor Wade Keller. In this episode, there's a discussion comparing the WCW roster led by Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair and the WWF roster led by Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Diesel, Razor Ramon, and Undertaker. Keller notes that if Vince continued to pay them fairly, that emerging WWF crew would stay loyal to him. Plus live calls and current events discussed on a wide range of topics including various possible talent jumps between the WWF and WCW.

These old radio shows are a trip in general. There's a few things striking about this show and Wade's Minnesota based Pro Wrestling Focus show. The Pro Wrestling Focus callers spoke like they were out of the film Fargo weren't that sophisticated and were rather timid. The Spotlight callers from New Jersey on the other hand are all very forward Guido types and knowledge. Much like the modern day in New Jersey conventions are a big thing and there's a million indy shows while Minnesota maybe had one indy show a month worth talking about.

 

"Hi I am Carmine and I would just like to ask about Evad Sullivan?"