Loss Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 I think Val's point was that a Crash Holly quarter hour on RAW would outdraw a Goldberg quarter hour on Nitro in 1999, which is true. Therefore, because Crash drew higher television ratings, he is the bigger star. Not defending him, but I think that's where he's coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 If that's his point, it makes no sense whatsoever either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Interesting point from the Bruno Observer interview the other day. Bruno said one of the reasons the WWF has always leaned towards long term face champs is because it's easier/quicker to build up heels for him to run through then it is to build up credible faces for a heel. Never really gave that much thought but it does make a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 If that's his point, it makes no sense whatsoever either. I think it was poorly phrased, but I got the gist of it. That the WWF had turned Crash Holly into a TV draw while WCW had degraded Goldberg as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 The quote was in the context of Val saying that one of Russo's strengths was having everyone from the top down was involved in a meaningful storyline. Still a ridiculous assertion.I think that's something that Russo actually did well. Maybe he didn't always get them involved in meaningful storylines, but he actually did give a crap about the presentation of undercard guys and helped get their personalities over. I remember D'Lo Brown talking about collaborating with Russo on the chest protector gimmick. Of course, Brown said this around the time he joined TNA as an agent, so that might just have been D'Lo being smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Watching Stampede on WWE 24/7, and noticing how Dynamite Kid in 1978 was nearly the same size and weight he was when he had his final match in 1996 where everyone who saw it at the time described his appearance as "shocking". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 It's totally fair to say that Russo in WWF tried to give everyone something to do/ a personality. If the stuff was good or not is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 If you watch Raw from 1998, the Oddities were more over than practically everything on the show in 2012. Granted, part of it is the rising tide of the Attitude Era lifting all boats, but the crowd goes nuts when their music hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Anyone who is a big Finlay fan should check out his match last night against Jon Davis. Great exhibition of strikes and groundwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 I think it was poorly phrased, but I got the gist of it. That the WWF had turned Crash Holly into a TV draw while WCW had degraded Goldberg as one. RAW was the TV draw, with Austin/Rock/McMahon on top. Of course I understand the reasonning, but it's a stupid way to say it, and Crash Holly is a terrible exemple. Now you tell me Sable was a bigger star than Goldie in 1999, I'll totally think twice about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 The quote was in the context of Val saying that one of Russo's strengths was having everyone from the top down was involved in a meaningful storyline. Still a ridiculous assertion.I think that's something that Russo actually did well. Maybe he didn't always get them involved in meaningful storylines, but he actually did give a crap about the presentation of undercard guys and helped get their personalities over. Agreed, that's one of the only thing I'm willing to give Russo. He always tried to give everyone top to bottom something to do, a small program or a distinct identity. The problem was of course than most of it sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 If you watch Raw from 1998, the Oddities were more over than practically everything on the show in 2012. Granted, part of it is the rising tide of the Attitude Era lifting all boats, but the crowd goes nuts when their music hits. This is absolutely true, and always shocks me. I happened to be watching a video of ICP-related wrestling the other day (don't ask), and the Headbangers were getting heat for beating up ICP that Dolph, Swagger, Barrett, Cody, and on and on, would kill for nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Going through the 1999 Timeline, not exactly a great episode. Political bullshit aside, Morley seems like a nice guy, but nothing very interesting nor fun is being said, and 99 was such a terrible year for WWF (product wise I mean) that there's nothing but bad memories coming back. Vince winning the Rumble, beating Shamrock, Sable women champ, the awful WM 15 with the IC/hardcore titles switches, the godawful KotR match with Austin, you name it... Vince WWF champ, Kennel from Hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 As someone who was nine in 1999, I can tell you that me and all of my friends absolutely loved Crash Holly and thought he was hilarious, even moreso when he was involved in all the ridiculous 24/7 hardcore title stuff. None of us could have cared less about Goldberg or WCW in general. Whether we'd have seen Goldberg as the more exciting guy had he had WWF booking is debatable, but Crash was one of the five or ten wrestlers we all loved. The whole undercard back then was great. Alright, it was often juvenile, and the in ring stuff maybe wasn't great, but as a kid caught up in the boom you absolutely went crazy for even guys like Venus, D-Lo, X-Pac, Hardy Boyz etc and even dudes like Bossman, Test, Billy Gunn et al were over in their own way. By 2000 with the Radicalz, Too Cool being absurdly over, Kurt Angle, Jericho...you just had an undercard all involved in storylines, all with character traits, and all eliciting a reaction. Russo has to deserve some credit for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Maybe at 9 it seemed great. But at 22 it seemed like complete shit. And I give Russo all the credit for it indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 The undercard for the WWF was pretty shitty in 98-99 but with that being said, I have a better memory of what mid-carders like say Steve Blackman were up to at any given moment in the Russo days than what Kofi Kingston has ever done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 the godawful KotR match with Austin What? That ladder match was great. Most fun I ever had watching a live pay per view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Watching Stampede on WWE 24/7, and noticing how Dynamite Kid in 1978 was nearly the same size and weight he was when he had his final match in 1996 where everyone who saw it at the time described his appearance as "shocking".Conversely, I noticed the same thing a few days while watching the 1996 match. Yeah, he was in rough shape, but the main cosmetic differences from 20 years earlier were being scruffy and not having as much as an athletic physique, which was to be expected with age, injuries, and being off steroids for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 IIRC, and I'm not even sure how exactly I know or remember this, Cena's wife was his high school sweetheart and they got back together years later. She was more or less the back at home girl when he got off the road. Cena hasn't been shy about his conquests, I figured they basically had an open marriage or an unspoken agreement that he would always come home to her. It really doesn't surprise me that the marriage didn't last. The Rock had sort of the same situation, married his college girlfriend before he really got famous, and they had an amicable divorce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 How is that the same situation? Like you said, Rock had the world's most amicable possible divorce. Cena...won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 I just meant in terms of both of them getting married to a girl they were with before they got famous, and neither marriage working out. Sounds like Cena's breakup is a lot uglier though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 RoH dumped GFL and went with themselves. They decided to host this iPPV on their website. They've already had technical problems. I'd say this is it for RoH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 So who braved the ROH disaster and how shitty was Davey vs. Steen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slickster Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 RoH dumped GFL and went with themselves. They decided to host this iPPV on their website. They've already had technical problems. I'd say this is it for RoH. As in, RIP ROH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 ROH fucked up the protection on the stream itself so a buyer who did get through was able to leak a direct link. The main event was awful and featured the most hilarious "WE ARE THE NEW ALL JAPAN!" sequence in ROH history: - Davey, desperate over not being able to beat Steen, uses "the DR Driver," a double underhook piledriver. - Kevin Kelly screams "THE DR DRIVER! WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT MOVE IN YEARS!". Hmm...a desperation double underhook piledriver that hasn't been used in years? I wonder where they got that idea? - Davey followed this up with a series of "Kawada kicks." Also, the tag titles changed hands thanks to an ether-soaked rag in a Jim Cornette promotion almost SEVENTEEN YEARS after ECW made fun of him for using it in SMW. He is now officially a self-parody. Meanwhile, during the match, Nigel on commentary let his concern get the better of him again: They didn't have monitors, and when a Briscoe took a scary bump on the other side of the ring, he said he hoped there was a table there (which there was). He then explained that while going through a table is no picnic, it's better than "falling 15 feet to the concrete floor," forgetting that going through a table is worse in Wrestling Logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts