Which WCW/ECW performer was most negatively effected by their companies closing?

[Cox]

That's a good point, and considering Steve Bradley killed himself at least in part because he was never able to make it as a pro wrestler, I'd say he wins this category pretty easily.

[Johnny Guitar]

So thinking about this thread, I'm wondering bigger picture. We're tossing around a lot of guys whose livelihoods were altered, or missed out on decent pushes. I'm wondering if there's anyone who had a potential Hall of Fame career screwed up by ECW/WCW closing?

 

I'm trying to think of one, and I'm not sure.

 

The problem with "closing" is that it's limiting. Take Goldberg's HOF potential. Long before WCW closed, they already had blown the potential of him being a huge draw (at least according to folks like Dave). So the simply fact of WCW closing might not have impacted him because Shitty WCW was already tanking his HOF chances.

 

I'm not arguing he had HOF chances. There have been folks who saw him as an off the charts potential.

 

Did anyone have that potential screwed up?John

I think the answer to that is How successful WCW could have been this decade, if they'd stayed in business. For all WCW's faults. They are a million miles ahead of TNA.

 

In the summer of 2002. Jericho, The Hardys, The Dudleys and Edge & Christian contracts all came up for renewal. If WCW was in business would they have jumped? If they did. Bang! goes most of the mid card.

 

As psychically banged up as Austin is. When he had his falling out with Vince in 2002. Would he have at some point gone back to WCW? Who knows? Austin himself said he can still work, although not on a full time schcudle. But him showing up in WCW, some where down the line could be big business.

 

This is interesting food for thought, but I'm not confident WCW would have had any clue how to use any of these guys. Hell we know they didn't know how to use Jericho the first time around and the tag team scene in WCW probably would have meant little.

 

 

I agree, to an extent. Based on what we know about how WCW was run.

 

Did WCW squander talent and fuck up big time? You bet. But there were moments of greatness. Both in the booking and wrestling.

 

And even when the booking was piss poor for large stretches of time. WCW from 89 till Russo showed up had a good too great in ring product. And the last 3 months they seemed to be heading in the right direction, even though some things weren't perfect.

 

Of course 11 years later, it's all a series of big what if's? on how WCW would have been since 2001. But honestly I can't believe it would have been worse than TNA|. Which is pure speculation on my part.

[BackToBionic]

I agree that a slow path to the top is best, because you condition fans to see him at that level and slowly make them want to see him at that level.

Watching the 1992 yearbook proves that with the Ron Simmons push.

 

I couldn't disagree more with Helms being considered for this. All for reasons which have been mentioned already. I mean, I'm not an expert on the final months of WCW (I did watch, but not too closely) but I can't even recall what he was doing there at the time. But I can tell you a bit about his run as The Hurricane, and I didn't watch a single second of WWE programming from 2002-2007. I've since gone back and watched bits and bobs though, and it seemed he was a consistent midcarder.

 

As for DDP, he seemed to have a job for life there. I mean, we can't say for sure where WCW would be in recent years but I think his odds of still having a job there in some capacity, if he wanted it, are pretty good. Bagwell also was there from 92 through closing, so I think we can at least agree if WCW had lasted until the end of 2001, he still would have had a job...barring some major incident. I think he could have thrown water bottles at most anyone he chose to in WCW circa 1999/2000.

 

The saddest part is that the performers who probably gained, financially, the most from WCW closing are the women. Torrie Wilson, with a couple Playboy appearances, in particular (wasn't she actually gone before WCW was bought though? Can't remember...) But Stacy Keibler wouldn't have gotten on Dancing with the Stars (and all that has come with that!) as a "former WCW superstar". Both of those girls had decent WWE runs, when it seemed like WCW had already replaced them with "cheaper" (in $ terms and in looks terms) women.

[Victator]

They had actually brought Stacy back, but fired the rest of the women.

[artDDP]

I couldn't disagree more with Helms being considered for this. All for reasons which have been mentioned already. I mean, I'm not an expert on the final months of WCW (I did watch, but not too closely) but I can't even recall what he was doing there at the time. But I can tell you a bit about his run as The Hurricane, and I didn't watch a single second of WWE programming from 2002-2007. I've since gone back and watched bits and bobs though, and it seemed he was a consistent midcarder.

He had a push in WCW as the new star of the cruiserweight division. He was given his own entrance music and came out with the Nitro Girls to have good, lengthy matches every week. I don't remember him getting a significant angle as 3 Count broke up just two months before the final "Nitro" and I don't even think he got very much promo time.

[BackToBionic]

Ooooh yeah, "Sugar" Shane Helms.

 

Speaking of cruiserweights in the WCW, what about Air Paris? He was treated on the same level as AJ Styles. I mean, I don't recall the commentators hyping Styles particularly more than Paris, in fact I seem to remember him being the kind of flashier member. It doesn't seem like he did anything at all post-WCW so he missed out on at least the chance to become a future "Sugar" Shane Helms

[El-P]

Well, Carl Oulette. He would have been a great fit in either company at this point if they had kept on. Never got back to WWF despite being a really good and impressive worker. Never really got to Japan apart from a few AJ tours. I know he worked PR, but was quickly back in working indies in Quebec. Really a lost opportunity.

[ZakkSabbath]

Hey I'm new here, so I hope no one kills me for resurrecting this thread cus it's been dead for a couple of days, but a couple names I thought of:

 

 

Scott Hudson -- I really liked that guy. I remember reading he was on some of those early TNA's, but I didn't start watching til FSN. That being said, I don't get how Mike Tenay is so good on WCW but makes me want to die these days. But thats another argument for another time.

 

The Cat -- I fucking love the Cat. I was getting drunk with my buddies one time and talking about wrestling from the 90s, and he goes to me "Fuck WCW. That shit was garbage. Except NWO Wolfpac. And The Cat." I was psyched up when he was in The Wrestler

 

 

 

I also want to respond to something upthread-- I think Steve Corino and RVD would've been huge stars in WCW if used properly.

[EricR]

The Cat got chances. He also had the quietest entrance I've ever heard (at the 2004 Rumble).

[Al]

Thinking a bit outside the box, what about Tanahashi? The New Japan wrestlers always got exposure which made them feel like bigger stars.

[tomk]

I'm convinced that if ECW had never existed and it was just WWF and WCW, Credible would never have risen above jobber status. There's a lot of ECW guys in that bracket I reckon.

 

I imagine if Credible hadn't had the stench of ECW on him...ex-Clique member who managed to keep his nose clean and hep free...he's still be getting WWE PPV dates.

[shakla]

Had to bump to get another name in. Probably not the biggest, but certainly up there.

What about Alex Wright? Apparently, his WCW contract was more long-term, much like Sting/Hogan/etc (but less lucrative). If his contract was more similar to say, a Lance Storm or Hugh Morrus, WWF would have given him strong consideration. He was only 25 when WCW closed, tall, athletic, experienced, decent charisma. Not saying he was a future world champ, but its a shame that he never wrestled in America (and hardly much anywhere else) after WCW shut down.

[Carnival]

I don't know about Alex Wright in the WWE. They don't like that body type at all. I'm trying to think of someone that skinny that got a real shot in the company. Edge is the closest I can think, but he just had such a great look. But yeah, in terms of being negatively affected, it's certainly a valid answer.

[Loss]

Wright never met his potential, but he showed such great aptitude for wrestling and improved tremendously when paired with good workers. He may not have been a star in WWE for political reasons, but I have no doubts he could have adapted to the wrestling style pretty quickly. 1995-1997 doesn't show him to be a consistently great worker or anything, but it does show him to be a quick study who would surely one day get there.

[Matt D]

What's the deal with Disco almost becoming Rockabilly. He seems a guy that the WWF would have loved. Had he just burned that bridge by 2001?

[El-P]

I really enjoyed Wright, including his Berlyn character. WCW was stupid for not pushing him better than he was, his evil foreigner gimmick was instant heat with WCW crowds, even in 1999. I don't think he was hurt that much, as apparently he was pretty smart with his money and got out from the business early.

Yeah, Disco in 2001 in the WWF would have got over easily. And he could work too. The mileage he got from a mid-card comedy gimmick is pretty impressive actually.

[Loss]

I also wonder if Disco Inferno came just a little bit too soon, or too late depending on your point of view. The "Disco Sucks" movement of the early 80s would have made him a great heel in 1983. In 1995 when he showed up in WCW, people weren't really nostalgic for the disco era yet. By the time that could have worked, he was trying to modernize himself. I remember thinking he was a modern Honky Tonk Man at one point, but really, that's an insult to Honky Tonk Man. HTM had the convictions to see his gimmick through and didn't change with the wind. HTM taking on that gimmick would have had him pitching at-home vignettes to show how crappy his life was in his Brooklyn neighborhood when he wasn't on the dance floor.

 

It seems like we missed some good opportunities for jokes in 1999 when Disco was Kevin Nash's friend. Nash was the king of the dated reference and now he was hanging with a guy who idolized Tony Manero. I'll try to rectify this when we walk through wrestling in 1999 later this year.

[shakla]

On 2/10/2014 at 11:34 AM, Matt D said:

What's the deal with Disco almost becoming Rockabilly. He seems a guy that the WWF would have loved. Had he just burned that bridge by 2001?

 

I remember following this saga back in the day. In spring 97, Disco refused to job to Jacquiline/Miss Jackie and was fired or suspended. At the time, he was touted as one of the hottest free agents in wrestling, believe it or not. He came back to WCW later that summer, feuded with Alex Wright (started during the runner where Alex tried to dance with the Nitro Girls) and got his TV title. Disco still jobbed to Jackie in a non-title match on a PPV. I think Yuji Nagata was one of the few quality title defenses Disco had.

 

Wasn't Disco tight with Russo when he came aboard WCW? Wonder if that deflated his WWF chances.

[Guest The Jiz]

 

DDP was in his mid-40s and moved around pretty well for a guy that age until WWE made him start flat back bumping. He was done in months. Also, no way would Flair have lasted as long as he did bumping flat on his back, considering that he didn't work a light style and he was thrown around quite a bit. Also, look at lucha and how many guys can have long careers because they don't do that.

 

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. DDP is an excellent pick. Went from headliner to joke who couldn't even wrestle anymore in record time after WWE decided to fix something not broken.

I thought it was neck problems that ended DDP's career. I don't know that bumping on your back would have much to do with those.

 

Anyway, after thinking about it, I think you'd have to add Guerrero and Benoit to the conversation since there's a strong argument that going to the WWE was directly responsible for their deaths.

Taking bumps impact the neck and ribs the most. It's where soreness will be most felt.

[Sidebottom]

I'll go with Jerry Lynn.

 

A great in ring worker and a decent little interview on occasion. In short, had enough attributes on his trump card to warrant the fans attention.

 

He was on top of ECW, had entered a storyline where he would only be working the main event or not at all which would have been interesting to see had we made it to Living Dangerously 2001.

 

Enters WWE and wins the light heavyweight title on his debut in a stupid move as it telegraphed that he had nowhere to go from there. With the WCW boys coming in, Jerry was utterly left in the shuffle. Had he entered the WWE a year prior, things could have been different. He stated on AOW that JR was high on him and kept in contact stemming from 1997 shots. I just think things could have been different, and he really would have benefited from working with Malenko, Scotty and of course RVD when he came in. In a more carefully structured environment that the WWE was in the year 2000, things could have been different.

 

The real end for Jerry was when the Alliance formed with the ECW guys in the Summer of 2001 and they all got in the ring together... Jerry was nowhere to be seen. As a former World champion of the group and a mainstay for over the last five years, that was a huge slap in the face.

 

Still, he went on to have some blinding matches n the early days of TNA.

[W2BTD]

Thinking a bit outside the box, what about Tanahashi? The New Japan wrestlers always got exposure which made them feel like bigger stars.

 

I'd say he's doing pretty well for himself, no?

[flyonthewall2983]

Bagwell seemed doomed from the start. He had the body, but his extensive history with WCW (I could be wrong on this but I think he was in WCW longer than any of the wrestlers that were left for WWE to pick up by the time of the sale) and his ego would have made for a short time with Vince.

[Loss]

He also showed that he might develop into a good worker at times, but never actually did. Their complaints about him would have been similar to those about Marc Mero, where they felt like all he knew how to do was work his pat match.

[El-P]

Bagwell was shot after his neck injury. He buffed up (pu intended) and was never the same. He had very few good matches after the injury. And it's not like he was a great worker who would figure out a way to work smarter.

[Loss]

Add in that he was even getting heat in WCW for acting like he had been somewhere and proven himself as a star. WWE thought that about every WCW import even if they didn't act that way, so him really acting that way would have created all sorts of problems.