A thread in which Dylan compares various wrestlers to HHH

[NintendoLogic]

Loss should go back to the Kurt Angle avatar.

[WingedEagle]

Loss's yearbook posts are some of the best things on this board. If no Flair avatar, perhaps Daniel Bryan with a thought bubble?

[JerryvonKramer]

Bumping this as hype for the HHH show Wrestling with the Past have just done.

[rvd356]

He was a guy who loved to be there and it showed. Flair loved Mongo.

This. One of my few memories from Halloween Havoc 97 weekend in Vegas(was young, not drunk btw), was Mongo literally standing on a table in the bar at the MGM drunk off his ass. It was seriously Haasmen style

[bradhindsight]

Bumping this as hype for the HHH show Wrestling with the Past have just done.

http://placetobenation.com/wrestling-with-...eat-hhh-debate/

[Matt D]

I am putting in a late request for Jay Strongbow.

[goc]

I know, I know, I shouldn't be bumping old threads but this is priceless gem and I wish it wasn't so jacked up by formatting now.

[goc]

As a tribute to my favorite thread on this board I have compiled all of Dylan's comparisons into one post and cleaned up the formatting (mostly) For context these are from 2012:

 

Rick Rude

 

This isn't close on any level. Rude was the much better worker, better on the mic, better character, better wrestling gear, better angle involving cuckolding of rival, et. There is no metric where HHH is better other than over all "stardom" and that is entirely circumstantial in my view. Can anyone imagine HHH having a match like Rude v. Steamboat or Rude v. Warrior? I'll set the bar lower. Can anyone imagine HHH executing a spot with as much consistency and violence as the Rude Awakening?

 

Dino Bravo

 

I'd take HHH with the minor qualification that I haven't seen much Dino in Montreal yet. That could change things.

 

Greg Valentine

 

Valentine smokes HHH in the ring. I mean absolutely demolishes him. Both guys worked a "deliberate pace" but Valentine's actually added to his matches. He was a much more convincing wrestler and tough guy than HHH. He was better at working long (see Backlund draw from 79), better at working gimmick matches (see v. Tito and Dog Collar v. Piper), was better at working blood feud/tight brawls (see v. Wahoo, v. Piper, v. Tito, v. Garvin), he was better v. underdog faces (see v. Owen), he was better in "technical" showcases (see v. Bret), he was better in escalating matches that started cleanish and led to babyface fire segments (see v. Steamer, v. Tito). Valentine is one of the most underrated workers in wrestling history. HHH is one of the most overrated.

 

Ronnie Garvin

 

Garvin is far better. Underrated on the mat, great striker and brawler. For a french guy, who mostly worked in the South he was a surprisingly better than average promo as well. Carny stuff I've seen from ICW, is better than shitty DX skits. Hammer Jammer is better than Hornswaggle under the ring in DX shirt or Chyna as ringside neutralizer. Loved his match with Big Bubba and the ten count spot in that was better done than similar HHH spots in any LMS match. Tully taped fist match was good and the Worldwide match is possibly the greatest free tv match I've ever seen - far better than any HHH match I've ever seen. Miss Atlanta Lively was better than Katie Vick. Flair series was awesome and better than any HHH series. Was a far better tag wrestler and his short lived team with Windham was miles better than any HHH team. Garvin feud with Jake in GCW was fun. Garvin working unprofessional match v. Scott Steiner in AWA, was better than HHH working unprofessional match v. Scott Steiner in WWE. I mean really this is a slaughter.

 

Curt Hennig

 

You could maybe convince me that 2000 HHH was better than any year Hennig had in the ring during the Mr. Perfect era, though that character was way better than any HHH character. But career v. career this is another monumental ass beating. From 82-88 Hennig was a tremendous worker who could work sprint brawls with Hansen, broadway classics with Bock, excellent 2/3 fall matches with Buddy Rose, play a great FIP in a tag match, or work cheating, bumping, cowardly heel v. Lawler, Wahoo or even DJ fucking Peterson. He was also a much better promo than HHH.

 

Brian Pillman

 

Pillman from 89-92 was a brilliant babyface worker, among the best I've ever seen in a wrestling ring. I've never thought "boy HHH is among the best I"ve ever seen" at anything in wrestling other than backstage politicking. I don't like heel Pillman as much, though it was better than heel HHH. For hokey home invasion angles "Pillman 9 mm" trumps HHH beating up Randy in front of his fake wife. Loose Cannon was also far more entertaining than "lol DX."

 

Paul Orndorff

 

I wish we had more prime Mid-Atlantic Orndorff but I'd still take him over Trips. Orndorff was Hogan's best overall opponent (angle, promos, drawing and match quality taken into account) and I cannot imagine HHH being able to "handle" a role of the consistent "loser" to Hogan. I liked the feud with Cactus a lot in 93. He was the best part about early SMW with his crazed piledriver spots. Ornndorff beat Vader's ass, HHH backed down to Bret Hart. I don't think this is nearly the landslide the others have been, but I would rather watch a best of Orndorff comp.

 

Roddy Piper

 

Piper easily. Even now I'd rather watch trainwreck, unintelligible Piper promo to HHH "epic" promo. Prime v. prime Piper decimates HHH as a promo and was a better worker too. I like his matches v. Rose a lot, the Valentine Doc Collar match, the Bret match from Mania, the six-man right before Mania III, the Savage match with the great airplane spin spot, Rude Cage match, et. He was lighting the World on fire but he was a guy who worked his character really well into his match. He was also more likely to work too short than too long which is a huge plus in a head to head v. Trip.

 

Rick Martel

 

Well HHH was probably a better promo than face Martel, though I cop to liking the Model act a good bit. As a worker this is another epic destruction of HHH. There is nothing he does better than Martel. People give Martel shit for the decline of the AWA in 85, but HHH in that role would have been so much worse it's comical to think about. The idea of HHH going to Japan and having compelling matches? The idea of him having a legit very good serious v. Boris Zhukov? The idea of him having a legitimately great match with Brad Rheingans based entirely around milking holds and slow build to highspots? I mean this shit doesn't even pass the laugh test.

 

Barry Windham

 

You are fucking with me right? Windham at his peak might be the best North American talent I've ever seen. Was literally excellent at everything. Was a big guy who could wrestle like a big guy as a face or heel - or wrestle as a chickenshit big bumping heel or as underdog/FIP babyface. Was a great brawler. Is probably the best tag team wrestler of all time, certainly no worse than top five. One of the few American wrestlers who was good at working a hierarchical main event style, though he didn't have to and wouldn't always if he didn't think the situation called for it. Had really good performances going back to 81 and really great singles performances as late as 93. Tremendous big man bumper and brilliant at selling both fatigue, long term damage and a body part. Had a really varied and compelling offensive and an excellent delivery of said offense. Also if you compare HHH singing happy birthday to Vince, to Windham's stellar musicianship in West Texas Rednecks he wins via that metric as well.

 

Mike Rotunda

 

I find Rotunda boring as piss for the most part and think he is a pretty fair comparison to HHH. He was definitely more fundamentally sound than Trip in the ring, but that didn't translate to much because he was largely a black hole. Varsity Club was better than DX, but Rotunda was the least interesting aspect of that. I would lean toward HHH here because the chances he has been afforded means he's had more good matches.

 

Steve Keirn

 

Keirn was better. Fabs were a great, great tag team and I also have enjoyed other Keirn I've seen as he's sort of a bruising type that can also work well on the mat. I suspect if there were more footage of him available this would be considered a slam dunk.

 

Tito Santana

 

Tito easily. Really underratd babyface who was better at showing fire than Steamboat and some of the other "top" babyfaces of the era. Feuds with Savage and Valentine are better than anything HHH has ever done. The glimpses in the AWA tell us that he was good before his WWF run too. Again with more footage this would probably be even more evident.

 

Butch Reed

 

If you listened to the podcast you know my answer. Reed had a better look, was better in the ring, and was better on the mic. Even if I were just looking at Doom era Reed, I'd take him over the great majority of HHH's career. Add in Mid-South and stuff like the Blackwell match from St. Louis and this is not close at all.

 

Mike Enos Wayne Bloom

 

Well, this is tough because neither of these guys got anything near the chances HHH had, nor did they have an extensive career as a secondary guy like Barry Horowitz. Bloom was actually a very good promo, a big time bumper for a guy his size and could work. Enos was an awesome offensive wrestler, a good bumper, had lots of neat counters, et though he was not a very good promo. I would say both guys were better in the ring, but it is really hard to compare them over all.

 

Ted DiBiase

 

Ted in a walk. Million Dollar Man was a far more memorable gimmick and really that was his low point in a lot of ways. Really awesome brawler and was good as fuck as both a babyface and as a heel. The awesomeness of the brainbuster angle laps any angle that HHH was ever involved with and Dibiase was involved in plenty other memorable one as well.

 

Koko B. Ware

 

I'm not entirely sure I wouldn't take Birdman/High Energy Koko over HHH, but when you factor in Memphis this is another easy pick. Great wrestler in his prime and Trip was never a great wrestler. Probably worth going back to see how much good Koko there is from other periods actually.

 

Dory Funk Jr.

 

I agree that Dory is pretty god damned boring, but so is HHH. I actually liked Dory v. Brody and I fucking hate Brody. Would I like HHH v. Brody? Highly unlikely. Still this feels like a toss up.

 

Haku

 

I fucking love Meng as a character. Just a big fan of the tough gatekeeper to the stars role that he played so well. Sort of like a Mark Henry before there was Mark Henry, though Henry in that role was a better worker. In his younger years he was a very good bumper. The Islanders were an underrated team and I enjoyed him as King Tonga too. Overall I prefer him to HHH and in the ring I'd much rather watch him.

 

Harley Race

 

Not sure I buy Race as Kurt Angle criticism and even if I did I'd take him over HHH. In fact I'm not sure there was ever any point in his career where Harley wasn't better than HHH. Seriously put aside his classic stuff for a second. Harley working sprints v. Tommy Rich, Harley as challenger in the AWA in 90 and having an awesome match at Wrestlerock with Martel, Harley in Puerto Rico, Harley in entertaining brawl v. Hogan and bumping like a loon for JYD, Harley taking huge bumps as Vader's manager. Honestly I'd take Harley from 86-90 over any comparable run from HHH - and that's Harley well past his prime, supposedly carry around a bag of shit for part of the run. Prime Harley? I mean really would you rather watch dock worker, with crazy old man strength and tattoos or Tom of Finland's guy working twentt plus minute matches v. Kevin Nash.

 

Tom Zenk

 

I fucking hate Zenk.

 

Tommy Rich

 

We don't have much of prime Rich, when he was the first national star. We do have more than enough Rich as an awesome heel from Memphis, Rich with Mr. Donnie, Rich as the Big Don, Rich in USWA, et to know that Rich was fucking awesome. Absolutely great promo, all time classic facial expressions and heel mannerisms, could work a solid tv match v. Eddie Gilbert even in an out of shape state, post-meth problem still throws better punches than HHH ever has. I would guess if we had more prime Rich he would be considered a top fifty ever candidate.

 

Hulk Hogan

 

Hogan by every metric. Far better interview, far more charismatic, far better look and was a better worker too. HHH's best matches might be better than Hogan's (maybe), but I would rather watch a collection of Hogan v. a collection of HHH.

 

Kurt Angle

 

I'll take Angle. Angle at his most annoying is arguably worse. Really it's tough because worst v. worst it's a contest between a guy who worked long matches filled with nothing because he didn't have the tools he thought he had and a guy who worked long matches filled with too much because he thought his concept of working a match is built entirely around near falls and escapes. I mean Angle doing parity mat exchanges with Shane McMahon is fucking idiotic, but is it really worse than the cerebral assassin stalking around the ring for a half hour building to a weak slot with a gimmick sledgehammer? But best v. best, Angle wins fairly easily. Angle doing abstinence skits was better than HHH doing cock jokes. Angle as lunatic, dangerous roid head is better than HHH as "King of Kings" phony tough guy. Angle from 00-02 is better than any run of HHH's career and I would rather watch his SummerSlam matches v. Austin and Rey than just about anything HHH has ever done. Both guys now work in promotions that cater to their vanity and illusions about what makes a good match which is not good. HHH is more likely to cover up someones murder and Angle is more likely to carry out one, so that may be a minor plus for HHH. Still I take Angle.

 

Keiji Mutoh

 

I have soured a lot on Mutoh over the last decade and I see a lot of similarities between him in Trips. But Mutoh was a bigger star on his own and their are flashes. He was never a great worker, but his over all act could add to a match, something I cannot say for HHH. Mutoh's best matches are almost assuredly better. Mist is better than crotch chop. 89 Muta was hugely influential on my wrestling fandom and gave us great moments like the angle with Eddie Gilbert and "The Japanese have attacked Ric Flair!"/"Doug Dillinger's a civilian!" Yeah got to go with Mutoh.

 

Shawn Michaels

 

Shawn. For all his faults - and there are many - there is no case for HHH. Even as annoying company ace, with on air sexual tension involving a McMahon family member, Shawn was clearly better. HHH is a guy that needed a gimmick match and Shawn was always a better gimmick match worker than him. I would take Shawn just based on The Rockers alone really, but there is plenty there up until his first retirement to merit him being over Trip. Post-comeback Michaels v. HHH is tougher, but I still think I'd take Shawn as he was good for at least one good match a year and was less likely to annoy me or kill me with a lengthy idiotic promo than Hunter. Plus Shawn defenders arguing that that Shawn was still a good worker because his gimmick was that he was supposed to be a terrible wrestler, amused me in a way HHH defenders never have.

 

Shane Douglas

 

Shane Douglas would have been an infinitely better HHH, than HHH. HHH played angry guy with shit overacting and still does. Douglas was a delusional nut who's "cut my fucking music!" shooting bit was half act, half real, and entertaining more often that not. Both guys saw themselves as heirs to Race and Jack Brisco and both were dead wrong. Both worked too long with guys they shouldn't have due to their own egos/insanity. But Shane was far less likely to do this and his best performances were far better. Shane had series with guys like Scorp and Mikey that HHH could have never had. You could throw him in there with a Jerry Lynn even after he was broken down and he could give you a real miracle performance. Shane is a guy who's stock went up post ECW watch, HHH is a guy who's stock never goes up.

 

Rick Steiner

 

I would rather watch Steiner for sure. If you are going to be an unprofessional piece of shit with an inflated sense of self I want to see you display that by beating the holy hell out of people in an entertaining fashion, not cutting peoples balls off/ruining their careers in a cowardly back handed fashion. Maybe this is a character flaw on my part but so be it. Also I like Rick's work as "fun loving, mildly retarded, bruiser" better than HHH's work opposite Rick clone Eugene.

 

Dean Malenko

 

I am not a Dean fan, but he's better than HHH. Obviously the guy is no kind of promo, but he was a good Nitro style worker and he had plenty of solid little matches. The things that annoy me about him pale in comparison to things that annoy me about HHH.

 

Mistico

 

I really haven't seen enough of his CMLL career to be fair. Was certainly a bigger star/draw than HHH though.

 

Taz

 

Taz was never a good worker in my view, but he had plenty of entertaining squashes and competitive squashes. The average Taz match was really short. I would rather watch a string of competitive squashes/short matches than a long boring HHH shit fest. As a promo Taz's little man syndrome rants were awesome at the time and still hold up pretty well for me. HHH has more good matches, but I would much rather watch Taz at his peak than HHH at his.

 

Kevin Nash

 

This is a pick em. Nash is funnier, though his humor is overrated. Neither guy is a particularly good worker, though Nash was a better foil for Shawn and Bret than some may remember. I honestly have no dog in this fight.

 

Scott Hall

 

Hall. Young Scott Hall was not very good, but I still have a soft spot for Razor Ramon. I suspect if you had plugged him into the HHH role he would have had much better individual performances and far fewer shit shows. If you plug HHH into Razor's role, I doubt we even remember it at all.

 

King Kong Bundy

 

Bundy was a legit good fat man wrestler. He did not have a long run as a quality performer, but there was a point where for his style he was one of the better guys around. I actually like him as a promo too and I thought he had a unique look for a big guy that added to his over all act.

 

Sid Vicious

 

I would rather watch Sid squash people with powerbombs and fumble over promos. I LIKE Sid better than HHH. Was he better? No.

 

Raven

 

Both are crazy overrated heels that's for sure. I am really torn on this. I think HHH's best matches are easily better. Both guys are among the most annoying and least interesting promos in wrestling history. Both fancy themselves master psychologist and neither was. Raven was far less likely to have a crazy long match with someone he had no business going long with, but I really can't recall Raven matches where I thought he did anything that added to the match at all. HHH at his best was a good bumper. So I take HHH

 

Road Dogg

 

I actually think Road Dogg is pretty underrated. He is charismatic and a good talker and has a few identifiable spots that always work. He doesn't have the matches HHH has, but he was never booked to have those matches. Overall I think he's better than HHH. As a worker I'd rather watch him, though I acknowledge that he has very few stand out performances.

 

Billy Gunn

 

Billy Gunn is one of those guys who is totally uninteresting, but also totally unoffensive to me. Hunter is better, but if you gave me the choice between a wrestling show with Gunn on the roster or one with HHH on the roster I'd take Gunn.

 

Sean Waltman Well this is a no brainer. I am not really a huge Waltman fan, but at his best he was a great wrestler. Was a great under dog babyface and actually was a pretty great heel at times, though he had a tendency to push things to far. Fucking Chyna on the way down also is a lot more justifiable than fucking Chyna on the way up.

 

Chyna

 

Come on, Hunter's bad he's not that bad.

 

Edge

 

I really did have to think about this, but I'd go with Edge. Edge's overracting, shit finisher, terrible offense and bad instincts were really bad at their worst to the point where I may have hated him even more than HHH. Edge/Lita was even annoying to me though it did get heat and I liked it better than HHH/Steph. One big difference to me is that I think Edge was more carriable than Hunter and Edge was willing to convincingly lose even in matches when he didn't have to (see the tremendous Cage Match with Matt Hardy at Unforgiven). Stuff like Jericho v. Edge and Del Rio v. Edge are the type of matches where Edge didn't do a lot other than follow the blueprint, but that was enough and I can't imagine Trip not trying to make the blueprint needlessly lengthy/complex.

 

Randy Orton

 

I am not an Orton fan, but he's a carriable wrestler, who at times will show flashes in the ring. He is far better as a heel than as a face and is a proven failure as the top guy on a brand. He's also a pretty bland promo more often than not. But I could probably name more quality Orton matches and performances than HHH has had with very little effort and Orton has had a substantially shorter career. Can anyone fathom HHH having the matches Orton had with Christian or Henry this year?

 

Brian Lee

 

As a face Brian Lee was pretty terrible. As a heel he was much better, though I'd still call it a stretch to say he was a good worker. He did have moments, notably the tag team with Candido which was a good showcase for the strengths of both guys. In ECW I thought he was extremely effective in his role, though it was not a role intended to produce good matches. HHH was better than Lee, though Lee had points where you thought he might take it to the next level.

 

Chris Candido

 

I was disappointed by Candido's ECW run, but he was still good there and he was great in SMW. Hell I liked a fair amount of Boddydonna Skip. Candido was a small guy who wanted to be that NWA tourning champ style heel. He had a tremendously varied offense, literally one of the most expansive and interesting of any wrestler I can remember. He was also an excellent bumper both in terms of theatrics and in terms of standard delivery. His promos fit his character well and were generally very good for what they were. He should have amounted to far more than he did, but unlike HHH he fucked the wrong woman and she helped ruin his career instead of make it. He was a whole lot better than HHH.

 

Harris Brothers

 

I actually don't think the Harris Brothers are THAT bad. I mean they aren't good, but they aren't the worst ever. Of course they are neo-Nazi's as opposed to HHH who just enjoys Nazi aesthetics. So I'll take Trip.

 

Sandman

 

Oh I think Sandman wins this pretty damn easily. Sandman was a very fun worker despite his limitations. Yeah he could stink up the place if he was too fucked up, but on other nights he could really deliver an extremely entertaining brawl. Another guy with surprising offense, great right hand, really underrated as a guy who could sell and bump his ass off, et. Plus he was a rare guy who had "It" in spades. Crazy charismatic, with the perfect gimmick and the best entrance in wrestling. Cane was better than sledgehammer. Woman was better than Steph. Scorp was better than shawn Michaels. Sandman all the way.

 

Rocco Rock

 

Rocco was a guy who always tried hard, but that often wasn't enough. PE ages pretty badly, but it was an act that meant a lot to the growth of ECW and Rocco clearly carried the act. I always felt like Petty could have been a really good wrestler in the right situation but he was never really put in that situation. I would lean toward him anyhow, but I'm not sure I could really justify it if pressed.

 

New Jack

 

Overall I think New Jack is easily better because he was a great promo. Seriously his SMW promo work was absolutely out of this World great. Best promo on Earth in 95 and he had plenty of really good Pulp Fiction ECW promos as well. I actually think The Gangstas were a good tag team in the ring in SMW as well and Jack's diving clothesline off the apron may have been my favorite regular spot in wrestling during that period. When he went to ECW he immediately became a caricature though it was a crazy over act and I can't really blame him. I suppose almost killing Vic Grimes is worse than anything HHH has done in wrestling (maybe). HHH was the better in ring performer largely because Jack found a niche that involved doing nothing more than blasting people with weapons and made a career out of it.

 

Tim Horner

 

Horner was the better worker by a long shot. Really a good hand in the ring, who was capable of very dynamic exchanges and was also an underrated brawler. On the other hand he was horrible as SMW's lead babyface and was really only suited to work the under card. One of the worst promos I've ever seen, and he stuck out like a sore thumb in a great promo company like SMW. HHH was probably better all around because for all of his faults he was at least believable as an upper tier wrestler and while he was/is a tedious promo he's nothing like Horner in that regard. Still Horner was the better work. And "Shameless" is one of the best wrestlecrap things ever.

 

Balls Mahoney

 

I like Balls better. I think Balls was a strange wrestler who at times looked like a really good wrestler and at other times looked like the sloppiest, silliest guy on Earth. Still he had more good nights than bad nights. His tag team with Axl Rotten should have been terrible but was actually pretty good. He had good matches with RVD, Tanaka and others. Even had some entertaining stuff with the Baldies. The Spike team was quality. The SMW run was silly but it was similar in that he had some good performances and some performances that left you wondering if it was even the same guy. Balls character was basically Balls the person. I actually think I could find more Balls performances I like than HHH performances.

 

Nightstalker (Adam Bomb/Wrath)

 

Not a Bryan Clark fan. He had some cool spots but I thought he was a massive underachiever. Seemed like he could have and should have been a break out star but wasn't. I'd take Trip over him.

 

Barbarian

 

Barb easily. Another guy who was really convincing and violent as fuck. You bought him as an asskicker probably because he was one. Even as Headshrinker Sionne he added a lot to matches. Another example of a guy with a bigger offensive arsenal than you might suspect and was one of the better guys at working brick wall and then selling based on chinks in the armor over the course of a match. Certainly projected a much more serious aura than the game.

 

Hiromichi/Ricky/Samson/Kodo Fuyuki

 

Fuyuki smokes HHH based on the AJPW run alone. I have not gone back and watched the FMW stuff in years and wonder how I would like it. At the time I didn't think much of it, but in a sense he sort of reminds me of a HHH a bit during that era. But the AJPW stuff is awesome. I actually thought he was the better worker in the Footloose team for big chunks of their run. In 88 he was holy shit level great, an offensive dynamo, bump freak and a great guy to build heat off of. Pat Tanaka was awesome and Fuyuki was the World's best Pat Tanaka. HHH was the World's best Alex Porteau...maybe.

 

Manabu Nakanishi

 

I am really soft on Nakanishi. Don't hate him nearly as much as others. Still I struggle to think of good performances from him, or even matches where he was carried as successfully as Trip could be at times. I think in terms of what they bring to the game this is pretty lateral, but HHH has had better dance partners and wrestled in a style that is far more suited to his capabilities (and to covering up the ones he lacks).

 

Mike Awesome

 

I honestly think I would take HHH over Awesome. Awesome was a guy who was really fun the first few times you saw him but wore out really quick. I would not call him bad really because he had his act and it worked for him. But he was a terrible promo and his one speed was not something that I thought fit well unless he had someone to bump huge for him. Another guy who I could flip on if I saw some FMW

 

Virgil

 

I remember really liking some NWO B-Team Vincent. For angles with spoiled white man of privilege exploiting the services of minorities/women, Dibiase/Virigil was more entertaining to watch unfold than HHH/Chyna was. Plus Virgil/Dibiase had a pretty good blow off. Honestly I can't make a case for Virgil, but I do wish HHH had a more Virgil like role.

 

Kendall Windham

 

Kendall was better. That will seem like a troll to some people, maybe even a lot of people but I don't give a shit. Skinny dipshit Kendall was an underrated wrestler who had good mechanics. Old man Kendall was one of the kings of WCWSN and a tough surly bastard. For stables led by egregious overbumpers wearing cowboy hats, West Texas Rednecks were way better than DX also.

 

Scott Norton

 

Would really need to go back and watch some NJPW to be totally fair here, but I remember liking Norton a good bit as a brick wall with his some tight looking offense. I doubt he's got a top five that matches HHH's top five, but he's probably got a disproportionate amount of fun tv matches, whereas HHH was often a tv killer. I don't really feel comfortable putting Norton over HHH but I get the feeling that I would like more Fire and Ice matches than 2003 HHH matches.

 

Reckless Youth

 

Have not seen a Reckless Youth match in a long, long time. I cannot imagine HHH was better mind you, but I can't even remember the last time I saw an RY match or even thought about him in a meaningful way as a worker.

 

The Amazing Red

 

I prefer Red by a safe margin. Red had flaws but he was a truly dynamic performer who could do the "never before seen" schtick and it worked because it was never before seen. The Low Ki matches still hold up really well for me and even his recent appearances show that he is still a super entertaining spot wrestler. If someone was selling a best of Red comp I'd think about buying it. If someone was selling a best of HHH comp? Well..

 

Trent Acid

 

Not really a Trent Acid fan, but someone can feel free to point me to matches.

 

Sting

 

Sting is a whole lot better than Helmsley ever was. There are a lot of criticisms you can make of Sting as a worker (cue Vic with the "like?" reply), but in some he brought a real energy to his matches and could deliver in a huge way between the bells. The Vader series alone is better than HHH's entire career in the ring, and those were not Vader carry jobs as a Sting was the perfect foil for him. I'm not in love with the Sting v. Regal matches, but they are matches closer in form to what HHH claims he is as a wrestler than anything HHH has ever done. The Foley brawls are really excellent. Sting was a highspot machine at times for a heavy of his size, but was not really a spotty wrestler. He could sell - particularly fatigue - really well and was very strong at playing the fired up babyface without crossing the line into the World of the super cartoony. He was also really good at getting over both his finishers which is something I am a fan of in wrestling. Even post-crow Sting would surprise you with matches and performances where he was working above what the traditional conception of him was. I will say that HHH was a better opponent for Flair which will sound blasphemous or crazy to a lot of people. But aside from that I can't think of any area where I would give HHH in the edge.

 

Lex Luger

 

Luger laps HHH. I always thought HHH would have been thousands of times better if he had aped Luger's 89 character. I doubt he could have or would have done it, but it seems like it would have been a better fit than what we got. Luger was a good wrestler from 87-92 with flashes of greatness in 89 and parts of 88. If you put peak HHH in 89 I don't think he has matches near that quality with Hayes, Rich, Pillman or even Steamboat. Luger was also a better opponent for Flair so there goes that advantage for HHH. Post-prime Luger was also better than post-prime HHH. I wouldn't argue if someone said that HHH had better matches after his prime than Luger did after his, but Luger was a really fun character in 96 and 97 WCW and worked hard more often than not. Those Bret matches a bit later were better than any HHH tv match I have seen in the last ten years. HHH was more successful at parlaying his affair with well known female wrestling personality into major career advancement so there is that.

 

Davey Boy Smith

 

I think DBS is pretty clearly better than HHH. Yeah Bret carried him through that one match, but he didn't carry them at the superior IYH match and Davey could go when he wanted to. I actually thought he was a better HHH, than HHH as he actually had some decent chain wrestling technique that allowed him to work as both a powerhouse and as a "ring general" type in the right setting. Over all he undercheived for his talent level, but there are still far more DBS matches where I thought he was a standout than HHH matches of the same sort.

 

Owen Hart

 

This isn't close. Owen was one of the most naturally gifted wrestlers I've ever seen. A guy who could go on cruise control and have a good match. At times this led Owen to do less than he could have, but he had far more quality than not. Hell I recently discovered a match with him and Greg Valentine that would probably be a top five match ever in the career of HHH and you got the feelling watching it that it was a normal Blue Blazer era house show match for Owen.

 

Big John Studd

 

Studd was pretty terrible. I'm not a fan of HHH but he is good at certain things. He runs the ropes well, in his best days he was very good bumper, he could and would bleed, at his best he can milk near falls for big "moments." Studd at trouble walking around at times.

 

Hercules

 

You know I feel like Herc is probably better, but I can't formulate an argument one way or the other because I haven't watched Herc in years.

 

Junkyard Dog

 

HHH was the better worker, but JYD was not as abysmal as he is made out to be. As a star this isn't close and no matter what sort of new school numerology Meltzer wants to pull out of his ass, JYD was the bigger star.

 

Bad News Brown

 

Bad News was always better in theory to me than in practice. He definitely had the look and gave off an asskicker aura but he felt really flat in the ring. People who saw him in Stampede tend to think he was incredible, but who knows for sure.

 

Warlord This is one roided guy that HHH was safely better than in every respect.

 

Jim Neidhart

 

I liked Neidhart enough to have to think about this. In some ways I thought he carried the Hart Foundation as he was the personality of the team and his big spots were visually impressive for a guy his size to the point where as a kid I thought he was the "cooler" of the two in the ring also. Could get real chinlocky real fast, but I would rather a guy be hidden in a tag team that can play to his strengths than dominate a show for years politically with all the booking exposing his weaknesses. HHH make a better "marry into the business" choice at least. I am actually really torn here. I'll lean HHH I guess but I could be convinced otherwise.

 

Brian Knobbs Jerry Sags

 

As a package I have no problem saying they were better. Nasty's were not unlike HHH in that they were reportedly difficult, stuck up pricks backstage who retained employment through friendship with powerful people. They were also remarkably unprofessional in the ring, though unlike HHH their unprofessional behavior added to their matches. Really when you compare HHH burying Booker T at Mania after months of watermelon/fried chicken level racist shit to Nasty's stiffing Scott Hall or ganso bombing Terry Funk it's really a no contest. Unlike HHH these guys would take what they dished out and then some with Knobbs getting murdered by Maxx Payne and Scott Steiner and Saggs having his face whipped with a belt being the most obvious examples. HHH is a guy who's best matches have been gimmick matches but when I look at his best gimmick matches next to the Nasty's I'll take the Nasty's every time. Nasty's didn't try and work beyond there means but could work in traditional tag settings. They were surprisingly good even in their very early years and the RnR's match from the AWA where Sags loses his teeth is better than any blue blood era Trip match. On their own they are harder to rate because really who thinks of either guy on his own? Sags was the better of the two and is someone I imagine could have had a good career in singles as the World's best Hack Myers. I'm less sure about Knobbs.

 

Brutus Beefcake

 

I actually liked the two "Dizzy Hogan" matches I saw from Portland where he worked heel. I mean he sucked and HHH was better, but maybe in an alternate universe Dizzy Hogan would have been good.

 

Yokozuna

 

Yoko with ease. I actually think Yoko was an amazingly good worker when you consider his size. He doesn't have a laundry list of great matches, but he's got a lot of good/fun ones. One of the last great squash match wrestlers ever. Was an excellent tag wrestler. Really great brickwall/weeble wobble selling and my god could he bump for a guy his size with his stock through the ropes bump being one of my favorites of it's type ever. Yoko also had awesome offense as everything he did looked high impact and a lot of it showcases a remarkable degree of agility. If he had been slightly lighter he and in better health he probably would have been the best big man wrestler ever.

 

Ahmed Johnson

 

Ahmed was crazy over. He was like Goldberg with a less stage managed charisma that leaped off the page. He was also an really gifted athlete who would shock you by doing crazy shit like tope con hilo's. There is no way you could reasonably rate him over HHH because he burnt out so fast but I can almost assure you that he would have been.

 

Rikishi

 

I don't see any case for HHH to be honest. Rikishi was actually more over than HHH during HHH's peak period so I'm not even sure that I would give him points for being the bigger star even though HHH obviously was positioned better and has sustained. With Rikishi you not only have his string of fun stuff in the WWE, but you have the tag stuff that proceeded it a lot of which was really violent and intense stuff. It was also totally different than the Rikishi act which is a good testament to the fact that he was more versatile than HHH.

 

Ken Shamrock

 

I need to see his stuff from Japan that I haven't seen. I think his WWE run actually ages fairly well with some really fun matches. He had presence, though he was over the top with his acting at times.

 

Hardcore Holly

 

I will take Holly every day. Holly is underrated. Not a great worker, but safely good. Had a nice looking execution to his spots and was very good at working them into a match. His underdog babyface stuff was hokey, but he had some good performances with that act. The Big Shot era was an actually amusing and entertaining aspect of Attitude Era tv that still holds up today and he was great playing that part. The Hardcore Holly era gave us some really fun matches against a variety of opponents in a variety of settings. Much better live wrestler than HHH in my experience also.

 

The Godfather

 

Godfather is Big John Studd level bad.

 

Test

 

Test wasn't any good, but he was basically HHH without the political connections and not quite as many rope running spots. Once in a while he would do something athletically that would stun you but it wasn't something you couldn't see done better somewhere else.

 

Kane

 

I am a not Kane fan and don't really see him as underrated - I've pretty much always hated him though there have been brief spurts where he would surprise me in the ring. I do like Unabomb in 95 a lot, but not enough to offset the Kaneyness of Kane. HHH wins.

 

Charlie Haas

 

Oddly in a sense I think Haas is a bit like HHH in that both guys aren't particularly good but have a decent number of quality matches because of circumstances and opportunity. Also like HHH he's not particularly good at the style he thinks he's good at which means he has a disproportionate number of "you've got to be fucking kidding me" spots as well. I would go with HHH here on the grounds that Haas has never had a real singles run and his tag work never saw him as the definitive star of the team.

 

D-Von Dudley

 

Man I loved D-Von's initial stuff as he showed up as the super serious, borderline racist, "angry black man" Dudley and just destroyed people and had several super fun brawls that were stiff as all hell. Once he got paired with Bubba, I think it was clear Bubba was the much better talent, though D-Von added something to the unit. By the WWE he was all "WAZZUP!" and "TESTIFY" and playing interior decorating for Bubba and not much else. But there is something to be said for a guy who knows his limitations. I am not a super huge Dudz fan, but I imagine Dudleys comp would be much easier to sit through then a DX comp though Shawn would have made a good lazy eyed, inferior worker, long lost twin of Spike.

 

Shelton Benjamin

 

For a while there Shelton had a hybrid J.T. Smith "you fucked up" gimmick but he wasn't as good at it as J.T. He was always good for the big spot or two in the ladder match that would turn heads. At points early on it looked like he would become a really good wrestler, but he never put it all together and is closer to Kurt Angle now which is too bad. I imagine a lot of people would rate him over HHH, but I don't think I would.

 

Rob Van Dam

 

I have condemned RVD as Carot Top many times, but prior to that period he could be really awesome at times. The Sabu matches fucking suck in hindsight, but I really liked his matches with Scorp, his mach with Furnas and his match with Jericho. Matches that were built around his big bumping tend to be awesome as he is great at that. He decided to go the route of shit prop comedy in excessively long matches, but at least the props weren't sledgehammers and stephanie mcmahon slaps. In the WWE RVD had moments and periods not unlike HHH and that is ultimately enough to put him above HHH in my calculus.

 

Mr. Kennedy/Anderson

 

Nothing really positive to say about this guy. In hindsight it seems hilarious that people thought he was going to be the next big thing in wrestling.

 

John Morrison

 

I have bashed the hell out of Morrison over the years and as a singles guy he is in some ways worse on fundamentals than Trip. Having said that over all he is a better wrestler. As a tag worker in MNM he was actually very, very good. Lots of stuff people have forgotten about from ECW with him and Miz as well. As a face he sucked for the most part, but I actually thought toward the end of last year and front end of this year he had a string of quality performances where he really added to the match. He has a match with McIntyre from SS last year that was a really great "flippy guy v. big bruiser" match. Morrison could really give you a trash bag performance, but it wasn't likely to be boring the way HHH's really awful performances were.

 

Kofi Kingston

 

Kofi is pretty bad as he has all of the worst traits of Morrison, but none of the plusses. He has proven that he is easy to hide in a tag setting though and even though he has some really awful looking highspots, he's got a few legitimately nice looking offensive moves though it is largely dependent on who is taking them. Kofi can be led through a match that goes beyond his talent level under the right circumstances with the right guy. HHH is probably better because despite his flaws he is less likely to work in spots that he has no clue how to execute properly.

 

Jack Swagger

 

I actually think I'd put Swaggers SLIGHTLY ahead of HHH with the minor qualification that I think it's really a toss up and I may be giving Swagger the benefit of the doubt because his best run is still relatively fresh in my mind. Still that 08 run was a really good mini-HHH 00 with Swagger looking like an elite level wrestler thanks to Christian and Finlay making him look like god on Earth. To be fair Swagger has had some other good matches and has really done well against a wide variety of guys. What he lacks are the intangibles in the ring, and a consistency to his game. Still he has been an apt passenger if nothing else.

 

Ezekiel Jackson

 

Big Zeke is actually a solid big man worker and has potential but I feel weird rating him above HHH only because HHH has been more battle tested and has at least scored a few times in big time settings.

 

George Steele

 

Man I fucking hate Steele. I suppose that I should appreciate him in the sense that the guy got over his gimmick really well, but I've never seen a Steele match that I thought was any good. I think Savage worked some fun spots around his existence once, but that's it.

 

Barry Horowitz

 

Barry by a mile. I own Bix's Horowitz comp and it is a lot of fun. Lots of short matches, but he managed to make them all at least somewhat different. The losing streak Jack Hart gimmick was a lot better than HHH's streak of winning every match even when he shouldn't. When Horowitz got more time to work he could really have an excellent match. Barry could carry turds like Scott Putski, work on Owen's level when squared off with him and have a sub-five minute match with Mike Jackson in Florida that is good enough to make an 80's Set. Of course he's known mostly as a jobber but he was a fun offensive wrestler ad added a lot of value there. There is also the story Phil likes to tell of APW bringing in Horowitz to work Donovan Morgan and then eating him alive before losing on a banana peel finish which means Barry might even be better at burying up and coming stars than HHH.

 

Manny Fernandez

 

I am not Rob Naylor, but Manny Fernandez is pretty fucking awesome. Great brawler, heavy hitter and bleeder, surprisingly cool highspots that always feel somewhat unexpected. Awesome delusional wrestling promo guy as well. Manny is one of those guys like Sabu or Abby who I will watch against just about anyone because something fun or violent or explosive is almost guaranteed to happen. Unlike HHH who dilutes what little talent he has by spreading it around excessively long matches, Manny was a burst of energy type guy who would maximize his (usually) much shorter matches. I can see no argument for HHH at all here.

 

Barry Darsow

 

Darsow might be the most lateral guy to HHH I've seen listed so far. Both guys are pretty boring when left to their own devices, but can turn it up in the right situations against the right guys. Darsow's "right situation" was as a tag worker relying on superior partners to help build the heat of the matches. HHH's "right situation" was against the most over guys in wrestling, at the height of their popularity, milking the moment. I enjoyed the Hogpen match v. Henry Godwin on last watch more than I would have guessed, but it's not as good as the Blacktop Bully v. Dustin King of The Road match. Also not sure HHH has the diversity of facial expressions needed to make the Repo Man gimmick work, though undeserving, sneak, who steals hard earned labor value of better men while they are busy working is a gimmick that better suited HHH. Still I see this as a battle between exact equals.

 

Tatanka

 

This is one where I would really have to go back and watch an era of WWF I really don't want to go back and watch. I do remember thinking Tatanka as a heel was a really fun turn and Tatanka's change in body language and expressions from face to heel was really great. Also his random return was just the sort of random return you want out of a wrestler as he was now an old vet running around stiffing people. I seem to recall him being really impressive during that run in both tags and singles. I have not watched any Chris Chavis indy work (that I can recall anyway). I would lean toward Tatanka, mainly because he never gave me anything as terrible as Evolution era Trip.

 

CW Anderson

 

I am a pretty big fan of CW so I will take him here. When you watch all the ECW, C.W. really comes across as the guy most screwed by circumstance. He really could have been working more meaningful matches right from the jump, but instead was stuck teaming with Billy Wiles and working a string of matches v. Roadkill/Doring that were all fun but basically identical. When they moved him up he immediately showed he could hang and had some really good performances. One of the best punches in wrestling, great facial expressions, excellent and underrated bumper, great versatility. Watching him live a few times on random indies years later he still had all the same tools. He didn't get many chances and came around at the wrong time, but with the chances he got he never disappointed. Sort of the anti-thesis of HHH.

 

Perry Saturn

 

Oh this is kind of a tough one. Saturn is one of those guys who everyone loved in the 90's, but the vast majority of his work doesn't hold up. For spot machines the guy really wasn't that impressive outside of the period where he was in a cast and showing up to do a couple of needlessly insane spots a match. I suspect his best run was WCW and I do not have terribly fond memories of that. I would say HHH's 2000 was better than any year Saturn had, though Saturn on average was likely to do at least one interesting spot a match, whereas there were many HHH matches were nothing interesting would happen. Still I have to go with HHH here.

 

Al Snow

 

Snow is a guy who looked like he was on a path to being one of the best in the World in 95. Then SMW went out of business and he just plummeted. Seriously I don't think I've ever seen a guy decline more sharply than Snow as he quickly became a parody. He rebounded some with the Head gimmick which was at least interesting, though there are few matches from that era that really stand out. SMW Snow is better than anything HHH ever did in his career, but it was a really short run. I would maybe lean SLIGHTLY toward HHH here, because mediocre Snow is up there with mediocre HHH and HHH had more good matches.

 

Dave Taylor

 

Taylor is one of those guys who does not have a ton of in your face obvious great matches, but man he was good at all the little things I look for in a wrestler. Tight holds, stiff strikes, good range of expressions/body language, could come across as a tough guy or a preening pussy depending on the situation, et. I really wish EricR would do the complete and accurate on Taylor he keeps threatening to do because I really think some cool stuff could be over turned. I would take Taylor over HHH on the strength of fundamentals and the fact that I can't recall a bad Taylor performance. But it would be nice to have some matches to point to.

 

Paul Burchill

 

Not really a Burchill fan. In a year where Christian had great long matches with every scrub/undercard guy named to man, he had good matches with Burchill but they were the least of his good matches. That's kind of Burchill's high point to me. HHH has a better high point than that.

 

Van Hammer

 

"Pimp me some Van Hammer?" No. Though I thought he brought about as much to his brawl with Foley as HHH did.

 

Jimmy Del Rey I really, really like Jimmy Del Ray. I thought as a jobber Jim Backlund was a lot of fun. Crazy bumper, with an awesome sleaze bag look. The Gigolo character fit him about as well as any character has ever fit anyone. He was so great in the Bodies and that incarnation was a lot better than the original version. Really had the right combo of bruising tough guy spots, stooging, and big time athleticism that you needed to make an act like that work. Hell I even liked his run as bizarro Jimmy Graffiti jobber in WCW Nitro era. The only real argument for HHH is that Del Ray's best stuff was in tags and he didn't really get a chance to shine much in singles. But that is sort of a back door argument to make a case for a worker that is inferior by every other metric.

 

Tony Mamaluke

 

Man I miss Mamaluke. Little guys who take crippling and utterly insane bumps is my second favorite thing in wrestling. My favorite is fat guys who do crazy athletic/highspots. I would guess that Mamaluke has broken more guardrails with his shins than any wrestler in history. That has to count for something right? Yes he was in the third best incarnation of the FBI, but still those bumps. He didn't really have a lot of meat to his career, but when he was so much better than HHH at the one thing HHH was actually consistently good at....

 

Damien 666

 

I would really need to watch more of his work. Watching him I never thought he was a great wrestler and thought his act was pretty weak. On the other hand miming is not easy. And I seem to recall him being in one or two brawls I liked a lot.

 

Ron Killings

 

I almost feel morally obligated to take R-Truth since I think his current gimmick is a Vince/Trip vision of how all black males act brought to life. I actually think Truth's minstrel show gimmick is sort of perversely entertaining and embarrassing in the same way early DX skits were, but that's besides the point. His TNA character/mic work smokes anything HHH has ever done. In the ring? Well I struggle to think of things Truth was involved in that I really liked. I think he's a pretty mediocre wrestler, nor more or less talented than HHH perhaps, but even on the off chances when he got paired with a guy who could theoretically guide him to something really good I don't remember getting anything really good. Over all I might take Truth if for no other reason than because him trying to pass the mic to Vince for a "What's Up?" is one of the five funniest things I've ever seen in wrestling. But in the ring I have to go Trip.

 

Terry Taylor

 

Taylor was a blind, lifeless vacuum, who has been overrated by peers and a certain section of the smark community so he is a good comparison to Trip. I also don't think it's a favorable one. Taylor has had some lengthy matches that will put you to sleep, but none that make you want to die inside the way a bad lengthy Trip match does. More to the point, Taylor could have a lengthy match with someone like Flair that didn't feel like an ego exercise. I honestly can't imagine HHH going twenty minutes with the Blue Blazer in MSG and having an interesting compelling match. He'd be too pissed he was on first for starters, but secondly I don't think he had the tools. Which is really the point - Taylor had more tools. He didn't always apply them but unlike HHH he wasn't a one trick pony that had to rely purely on bumps to overcome the fact that he was a boring fuck. I also think the Taylor Mad Man was a much more interesting version of Jean Paul Lesveque character than was Jean Paul Lesveque. Plus Taylor had the greatest WCW match of all time according to one of the great internet wrestling fans in history.

 

Plowboy Frazier

 

No clue when the last time I saw a Plowboy Frazier match was. No way I could dream of being fair here.

 

Greg Gagne

 

This isn't close, it's Greg in an epic ass beating. This is basically a contest between guy most wrongly accused of benefiting from nepotism and guy most rightly accused of benefiting from nepotism. The better head to head comparison would be Zbyszko but I assume every one knows that Larry Z is several thousand times better than HHH so that isn't on the table. You can make criticisms of Greg. He moved around the ring strangely at times. His punches could look really bad at times. His fired up posturing looks really dated with 2012 eyes. But the guy could work. He was actually a pretty excellent tag worker to be frank and the High Flyers were bigger stars on their own that meant more to business in the AWA than HHH ever was in the WWE and no I'm not kidding. Was very effective as both a FIP and a hot tag. Had a badass fucking leg lock that he would do with a bridge which is one of my favorite random moves any 80's dude does. Was not as good a singles worker, but was still better than HHH. I honestly don't think HHH would have had matches nearly as good with Hennig, Slaughter or even Pat Tanaka as what Greg had in the AWA, because HHH needed tricks and "big time feel!" to get him through virtually every really goo match he was ever in. Honestly I can't think of HHH ever doing anything as boss as Greg diving onto Adnan's arm in the Cage.

 

John Nord

 

Hmm. Nord was a better working Brody, but with about one tenth the charisma and presence of the original. HHH was a worse working Jimmy Garvin, but with about one tenth the charisma and presence of the original. I will say that HHH's strengths are bumping and bleeding and while he might bleed better than Nord no way in hell he bumps better. Nord was kind of a bump freak for a guy that big. On the other hand I can't think of any really good Nord match and the motherfucker could botch some simple ass spots if he really got moving. If someone could point me to a good string of Nord matches I could be convinced to go with him since he made a more convincing Viking Royal.

 

Ted Dibiase Jr.

 

Tough because Dibiase feels like a guy who may eventually put the pieces together. I have seen performances from him in the last couple of years where he seemed to be on the right track, but he is young and not really being put in a position to learn much, so who knows. I can't really advocate for him over HHH at this point, but it's more of an "incomplete" than a "failure."

 

Cody Rhodes

 

This is another tough one. I actually think Cody has a lot of the pitfalls of HHH. They both can be boring as piss in a match and struggle to fill times. Cody has better "neat spots" and I think in a tv setting at least is FAR more likely to have a nifty performance, though like HHH I think that is largely dependent on his opponent guiding him. HHH doesn't do anything as stupid as Cody's moonsault press as heel transition move spot, nor was any HHH rambling promo as embarrassingly shitty as face mask/comic book villian Cody promos which are literally my least favorite promos in the history of wrestling. Cody has slid into a spot semi-similar to HHH in the sense that he has worked the fringes of the main event and seems competent though not exemplary in that spot. Cody as traditional mid-carder is hit and miss, but more hits than HHH. Cody by a hair.

 

Chavo Guerrero Jr.

 

This isn't close. I think Chavo is really underrated by a lot of people. He was not as flashy or as smooth or as dynamic as his relatives, but I think he was/is better than Hector and better than Hector definitely makes you better than HHH. Really good utility guy who could be used all over cards against all sorts of people. Granted he couldn't carry the awful Sin Cara, but I blame HHH because Mistico was his project. One of Rey's better opponents, had a run in 08 ECW that was really awesome, excelled in tags, can work babyface or heel effectively, sells well, bumps very well, has good offense, et. Another guy who was a much better tv match wrestler than HHH too.

 

Harry Smith

 

I actually think Smith is very talented, but he clearly hasn't put it all together yet and I can't see how you can rate a guy like him over HHH. I almost wish he would go to Europe or somewhere where he could use his catch stuff more in his matches.

 

Justin Credible

 

Ah the other top heel of 2000, who could give long crowd killing promos and turned a shit load of my friends against wrestling forever. I actually think I have a more visceral hatred for Credible from that particular era, but I find it hard to argue that HHH was better. Credible was an even better bumper than HHH. His series against Mikey and Lynn were really good. I can't see anyway HHH could have had the sort of matches Credible had with Oulette and Sasuke even if I don't like those matches as much as others. Strangely Credible worked his prime in ECW and was less reliant on gimmicks and props in his matches than HHH. I almost wish I could conceive of an argument for HHH here but I can't

 

Tony St. Clair

 

I have not seen THAT much St. Clair. But I did think he was really good working with Funk when I watched there match from 93 recently and I can recall other matches where I thought he added things that helped the match a great deal. I would want to watch more St. Clair to say for sure, but I would certainly lean toward him.

 

Mark Rocco

 

Rocco has aged poorly for me, but here's the thing - he was still better than HHH. Still moved around the ring sharply, could deliver neat tricks of the trade in the right setting, worked tighter than HHH, et. I still like that one DK match a lot, which is rare for a DK match. If I was judging purely based on Black Tiger I might take HHH, but Rocco's WoS stuff is enough to put him above Trip.

 

Steve Wright

 

Another guy I would need to watch more of BUT this is a guy that had a match I fucking loved with Tiger Mask. When has HHH ever had a match like that with a comparably inferior wrestler? Offhand I'm not sure if HHH has a single match that would make my top 30 in WWE history despite having huge advantages and tons of opportunities. The one match I would even consider is a match I love primarily because of the finish and the work of is opponent. I can't remember where I had Wright v. TM for the NJPW Set but it was near the top 30. And that is all Wright being the man.

 

Cien Caras Canek Rayo de Jalisco, Jr. Blue Demon, Jr.

 

Would need to watch more of all of them. I like Canek a fair amount and think Caras is sort of the anti-HHH (well maybe Aguayo would be a better pick) in that he was a guy panned as a shit wrestler, which leads to arguments that he really wasn't that big of a draw by Meltzerian disciples, whereas Trip is a guy who has a peak people remember fondly, and some people pretend he was a huge draw because of when his peak was. I have seen enough Caras to think he was competent though. Really the point is that I need to see more lucha (which is what I mostly watch as is these days).

 

Nobuhiko Takada

 

I am willing to say Takada was better, but I really don't think it's by a large margin. I really hated most of Takada's junior stuff on the NJPW set. When you hid him in tag matches he was far better. I have not watched much of the UWFI in a long time, but I was never as big a fan of him there as some others. Definitely came across as a lazy turd a lot of the times and I don't think he was a very convincing wrestler for a guy who was working a "shooter" gimmick or whatever the fuck.

 

Minoru Suzuki

 

He certainly does "menacing facial expressions" better than HHH. Posturing is better than HHH too. Has more interesting offense. I would not want to watch a career retrospective, but you can cherry pick matches of his from year to year that are enjoyable and where he adds a lot to the match. I would rather take a chance on a Suzuki match than a HHH match.

 

Minoru Tanaka

 

Everyone thought he was the shit during the dark years where the wrestling World was falling apart. I have not thought much about him or watched him much in close to a decade. I cannot imagine thinking he was worse than HHH though.

 

Koji Kanemoto

 

I can't think of a single thing HHH does half as good. Kanemoto is a better veteran douche, better offense, sells better, better pacing, better ring movements, more good matches, more good matches against variety of opponents, better average match, takes better bumps, better facial expressions, better match in mid-90's WCW with Alex Wright. By every metric he is better.

 

Dick Vriji

 

Would need to see more, as I honestly can't recall seeing much. I know I have seen at least one match from RINGS, probably more.

 

Nightmare Danny Davis

 

I have not seen a ton of prime Danny Davis, but post-prime little engine that could Davis is a lot fun. My question is was Davis good at working little man's syndrome as a sort of ferocious battle against the World? If so I imagine he was better than HHH.

 

Jeff Gaylord

 

HHH isn't that bad.

 

Billy Joe Travis

 

Billy Joe Travis was a fucking awesome Southern heel. Possibly my favorite guy no one remembers. Total lunatic bump freak and theatrical son of a bitch. One of my favorite guys on the Texas Set and he barely appeared on it at all. Really makes me want to go back and watch his entire career which is the exact opposite of what happens when HHH shows up on my tv every week. Definitely Billy Joe.

 

Ian Rotten

 

Ian was easily better. I am not quite as high on Ian as some and he is a scummy piece of shit, but this is wrestling and he's up against HHH so really how much can you hold that against him? Awesome at tricked out mat work when given the chance, very good and intense brawler, a rare guy who could work staple "indy" style if he had to and delve into other shit just as easily without losing anything in translation. I even saw him have a surprisingly good match last year, despite his status as totally broken man dependent on Taco Bill pay check to pay off legal fees.

 

Reggie B Fine

 

Pimp me some Reggie B. Fine

 

Miss Texas (Jacquelyn)

 

Actually this is not an unreasonable comparison, as both (allegedly?) attempted to fuck their way to the top of the wrestling business. Obviously on that metric HHH wins. As a worker? Well Miss Texas worked really stiff and gave off the vibe of a legit asskicker who could maul you. She is one of the few women I legitimately took seriously against men. I seem to remember her having a really great body slam, which is such an odd move to stand out which in a way makes it extra impressive. I would need to go back and watch some matches, but I certainly think she was more authentic than HHH in the ring.

 

Otto Wanz

 

I have more respect for buying the AWA title from Verne, than fucking daughter of promoter, even if it is a far shittier business move. Wanz was actually a pretty agile fat man. I've only seen a handful of his matches and his rep isn't very good. But German PN News sure seems like it would be more fun to watch than HHH if nothing else.

 

One Man Gang

 

Come on this is Gang in a cakewalk. Dude was really fucking good in his prime. Total bump machine for a guy his size and he could goofball it with the best of them but without cheapening his status as a huge fat guy that could crush you like a bug. Even post-prime in the WWF and even ECW he could add a lot to his matches. I'd probably go out of my way to see an OMG match right now actually. Also not sure Akeem gimmick was more racist than HHH in blackface, but it was a more effective use of the over the top racial nonsense and more sustained, which means HHH may not have the natural edge even via the metric of amusingly offensive stuff.

 

Bruiser Brody

 

Eh, fuck Brody. The best part of his act was his entrance. Once in a while he would surprise you with a performance where he gave a little, but if you are going to be an overrated, politicker, with over inflated sense of importance, and tendency to bury guys, I would prefer you at least bump a little in the ring.

 

Carl Oulette I love Oulette as he is a fat guy with crazy offense. Yeah he was chinlocky as hell at times, but the one time he got a chance to main event he was pretty awesome and had a match about as good as any HHH match I've ever seen. Really awesome highspots of course and also a crazed bumper. Would have liked to see him get more of a chance in a setting where I could see what kind of brawler he was, but I see no real argument for HHH being better.

 

Buff Bagwell

 

I think this is fairly lateral, though Bagwell's reliance on female relative to get him out of working hard was really misapplied relative to HHH's similar efforts. Bagwell's early babyface work was actually pretty good and a lot better than HHH's early work. I really enjoyed him as Scorpio's uncool white friend trying to act hip to black culture and failing miserably albeit in a lovable way. As Buff he was basically HHH level worker without the push. I can envision Buff having perfectly fun matches with Foley for example, but it wouldn't be because of Buff, though Buff's taunts and schtick were considerably better than HHH's so maybe he would have added a bit more. I think I will take Buff by a hair because his double fisting of Coors Lights in a local high school gym the last time I saw him work was the highlight of the night.

 

Nicolai Volkoff

 

Volkoff was pretty bad. I struggle to think of anything he did well. Russian National Anthem bit > water spitting though.

 

David Flair

 

I actually saw a couple of USA pro shows where Flair looked respectable. I mean HHH was clearly better, but Flair's suplex was better and I think he might have turned into a pretty good chickenshit heel if he hadn't been such an embarrassment out of the gates.

 

Wahoo McDaniel

 

Even in the overrated strap match with Manny, Wahoo showed more than HHH and he was decades past his prime. Wahoo is one of those guys like Tommy Rich that is almost certainly a top 100 all time worker though there is not as much footage as you would hope to support it. Stiffest, toughest, grittiest guy ever. Even years past his prime those Manny matches and matches with Curt were really good. And that Bock match is soooo fucking good. I literally don't think HHH could ever dream of having a match that awesome. I would kill to find the treasure trove of Wahoo matches, I would rather be killed than go back and watch big chunks of HHH's career.

 

Rhino

 

Strange case of a guy who peaked early. If ECW had stayed open I suspect Rhino might have actually turned into a really good wrestler. As it stood he was remarkably good at working these four-seven minutes sprints where he would give his opponents enough and then cut them off with some really vicious looking move. This carried over into the early parts of his WWE run too. Very underrated as a base. He really didn't look out of place v. really good wrestlers even if he was always a passenger. He fizzled out and has been a whole lot of nothing for years, but I like the best period of Rhino better than the best period of HHH

 

Ultimate Warrior

 

HHH is better, but the urgency and excitement Warrior could bring to matches is something HHH has never really had. Warrior getting blown up seconds into half of his matches is worse than HHH not being able to work compelling control segments to save his life. I do like delusional Warrior promos better, than delusional HHH promos though.

 

Leo Burke

 

We have enough Leo to know that he was a very good wrestler. Really good at controlling a match, selling and working from defensive position. Even well past his prime Leo in the Maritimes was still a very good hand that could have fun studio matches every time out. I also am a mark for journeyman types and while Leo was an ace in the Maritimes and elsewhere at points, the novelty of watching him work "fun" matches is something HHH could never really replicate.

 

Stevie Ray

 

Terrible wrestler. Possibly my pick for worst of all time, setting aside your obvious freakshows and maybe Abyss. I mean the Pedigree is a relatively easy move to make look good as HHH has proved. How the fuck do you fuck it up?

 

Steve McMichael

 

Mongo wasn't very good, but he might have been okay with time. There were things he did okay in the ring and I think as a heel he understood the basic concepts of what he was supposed to do. HHH was better for a number of reasons, but I don't think Mongo is a bottom of the barrel wrestler for whatever that is worth.

 

Sam Houston

 

I am actually a reasonably big fan of Houston as gangly guy falling over himself while taking and executing basic offense. He was the perfect JTTS type and truth be told I would rather watch him get whipped around the watch HHH wrestle. I am not sure he was better than HHH though. As far as guys that looked half trained and had a unique charm, Whipwreck was a lot better. I think Mikey is easily better than Trip, but not sure a poor man's Mikey is better than Trip.

 

Johnny Gunn/Salvatore Sincere/Tom Brandi

 

Brandi was a Z-Man clone. I am not a Z-Man fan.

 

JT Smith Well I'm pretty much the World's biggest J.T. Smith fan. In the early days of ECW he was always willing to work hard, take lunatic bumps, bring some fun offense, et. By the time the FBI kicked off he was an incredibly entertaining promo. Unlike HHH's body Michaels, his "he's supposed to suck!" gimmick was real and not something apologists tossed up to defend the fading talents of their hero. Was really good at working Southern tag formula with the FBI, or a more high spot heavy style. I liked his feud with Hack Myers a lot. His run was really short. Not even four years really. And he lacks the epic matches and the week to week tv to fill the void. There is no way in hell that I can put HHH over Smith, but I can't really justify putting J.T. over him either.

 

George South

 

South is one of my favorite jobbers. Even now I really enjoy watching him heel little kids and call them ugly before parading around in his Jesus Reigns underwear to confused looks from the locals. He had one Flair tv match that really made me believe and it wasn't all Flair. I've seen him live enough times over the years to appreciate him on a level beyond just fun jobber, but I've also seen him shit it up something fierce. HHH begrudgingly

 

Angelo Mosca Jr.

 

Mosca wasn't any good at anything.

 

Lance Von Erich

 

Lance wasn't very good at anything, though fake Von Erich v. fake McMahon is an interesting comparison.

 

Savannah Jack

 

Fuck I don't even remember seeing a Savannah Jack match.

 

Norman The Lunatic

 

Fuck it, I think this is pretty close. Sure Bastion Booger was trash and according to EricR he's a committed racist, but he's a guy who's glimpses from Stampede are a ton of fun. Really athletic for a big guy. I liked the Norman act a lot as a kid and was surprised by how much I thought it worked when I rewatched the WCW stuff a few years back. He probably would have made a better mentally challenged person for HHH to denigrate than Dinsmore and I like Dinsmore. Not sure about this one actually.

 

Jake "The Milkman"

 

Milliman I like Milliman a good bit as far as jobbers go, particularly in tags, but there is not enough substance to merit a case for him.

 

Buck Zumhofe

 

Zumhofe wasn't very good and was lame as shit, sort of like forty year old men coming to the ring to rapcore and pointing to their crotches in a desperate attempt to relive their glory years. Actually that's not really fair as Buck's boombox was more timely, than aforementioned rap core. Buck was able to carry Mr. Electricity Steve Regal to a few above average matches which is something there is zero chance HHH could have ever done as Regal would have laid a trap for him that he would have fallen right into. Buck also had at least one cool match with Billy Robinson and the Heenan feud was really awesome. The thing about the boombox is that it was a heartfelt object that you could buy Buck being crushed about the loss of. It probably costs him a months pay or more and it was the best hope he had to score with one of the rats or look cool for all the young kids in the neighborhood. What did HHH have? A sledgehammer? You can't really do much with that. I guess they could do an angle where The Colons, Hunico and Epico run a train on Stephanie which would feed the racism of Vince and co and is about the same level on the show as Heenan v. Buck in theory (though that was a hot feud that drew money), but who here really believes HHH gives a shit about Stephanie and how would that really hurt Trip? I mean this is the WWE that's a storyline that would probably result in him getting more "cred" with the boys and being pushed as a man of the people, Huey Long type, willing to share the wealth with the peasantry. Absent the equivalent of a boombox, this is closer than it should be.

 

Ron Bass

 

I always liked Bass more than most. Liked the spur angle, liked his NWA run in 85 or 86 or whenever the hell it was. Problem is I can't recall a great deal in the way of matches. I literally can remember more Lee Scott matches than Ron Bass matches. To be fair the majority of HHH matches I recall weren't very good, but still this is a problem for Bass.

 

Firebreaker Chip

 

Someone help me out here, where else did he work and under what gimmick? I know Johnny is an HHH fan and deliberately tossed out the names he thought were most absurd, but I want to be fair here.

 

Rene Goulet

 

Oh I really loved him in that tag from the New Japan Set. He is a guy I could see really enjoying if I went back and watched enough stuff as his whole look and demeanor encompass a lot of the things I like about that era of wrestling. But I have not seen/do not remember enough to definitively place him above HHH.

 

Santino Marella

 

I actually think Santino - while still very early in his career - is almost certainly better than HHH in the big picture sense, and I think there is a good deal of evidence that he is a better worker within the confines of what he is given. Santino is the most charismatic guy in the entire company, over as fuck with the live crowds and with casual fans and works a comedy gimmick in a way that makes him a lovable underdog people want to see win rather than an annoying nuisance you want to see die. His recent gimmick of "guy who is not really competitive in singles matches, but mysteriously becomes a survivor/force to be reckoned with in multi-man environments" is something that could easily be fucked up and yet he plays it perfectly and is totally believable. Far more believable than angry HHH slobbering around like an epileptic St. Bernard. He has a decent range with his offense as his comedy spots work, he’s gotten over the Cobra as a legit finish, but he also can surprise with more legit looking stuff that gets a reaction. At this point this year he’s probably one of the five best guys in the WWE and you could actually make a case he’s number two and this is the only time he’s ever really been given a chance to do anything. I see no reason why Santino couldn’t work WWE main event style, though I suspect he would be more likely to work out his career as a comedic Ricky Morton type, which frankly – with the right push – could place him well above HHH when all is said and done.

 

Vladimir Kozlov

 

Never really had a chance. I think he had some of the same problems of HHH, though he had mannerisms and body language that I think was more befitting his act. Koz was too loose to work a real “shooter†gimmick and too robotic to work as a real hybrid. He’s another person who I think might have gotten it in a different era, but this wasn’t his era. HHH is better.

 

Kid Kash

 

Oh I think Kash is obviously better, and had he stayed in the WWE – a place that seemed to temper his worst instincts – I think this would be self-evident. As a spot machine, Kash was not upper tier, but was really good and was particularly good in spirited little sprints. He was sort of the ideal Nitro worker, it’s just he wasn’t working on Nitro. I don't think Kash was that much “worse†than HHH in 2000 which is allegedly the Game’s magnum opus. As a Southern indy/WWE guy he’s been pretty great as the cranky old vet, stiffing dudes and just generally being a douche. Watching SAW I doubt there is a more over the top heel in wrestling when it comes to fucking with live crowds. True HHH has been fucking with live crowds for years via the hypnotic trances his boring matches often leave people in, but that’s not what I meant. Kash as heel ace of SAW was a more compelling heel ace than HHH has ever been. Watching Kash threaten to beat redneck women in the front row of a show sponsored by a bail bondsman > HHH threatening to “end an era†by beating a crippled bald guy.

 

Roderick Strong

 

I don't think Roddy is very good at this point, but I did like him to a degree several years back. In particular I liked him around the time he popped up in TNA which is….odd. Really this is a choice between whether or not you would rather watch a 20 minute plus masturbatory “classic†built around near falls, chops and backbreaker variations, or a masturbatory “classic†based around ego of a guy who’s career peak consisted of occupying space while Mick Foley dove head first in thumb tacks. I am not sure I have a reasonable answer to this question.

 

Jack Evans

 

I like Evans better because he’s one of the few spot machines that lets the spots speak for themselves and isn’t near fall obsessed, indy “superstar.†He comes across as a guy more interested in doing cool shit than a guy trying to get MOTY accolades from the Figure Four board and I appreciate that. He’s also nearly died multiple times on lunatic bumps, which always wins bonus points from me. HHH is probably more likely to be involved in a match that ebbs and flows with traditional structure which is something I am a fan of, but HHH is not particularly good at being compelling in that setting. I also think Evans would have made a better DX member as his breakdancing around to the entrance song would have had a real Flip Dawg from White Boyz feel that HHH could never hope to replicate. I would take a good rep of a style I don’t like as much than a mediocre rep of a style I like more.

 

Alex Shelley

 

I’m not really a Shelley fan and never have been. I think TJP does the same act better and Shelley strikes me as an obvious over actor in a wrestling universe filled with over actors. For overacted segments involving aging talents, the Papparazi production segments might have been better than HHH bringing Shawn back for Summerfest/Shawn superkicking the little girl. Shelley getting carried by Hero a couple years back was a bigger success than Punk v. HHH but that feels like an unfair comparison. That Shelley v. Lethal match was as bad an indy strokefest match as I’ve ever seen and surely a worse sin than all but the most egregious HHH abortions. It is possible I am missing some good Shelley ROH work in my calculus, but I lean toward HHH.

 

Jimmy Garvin

 

Garvin is obviously better. Not sure that Garvin is really the best comparison for HHH. My initial thought was “cliché heavy promo guy, with pampered elitist gimmick. Largely known for his association with two females, in which it is generally agreed that the first was more artistically successful, with the second being smarter for long term happiness. Third or four best guy in major stable that has been highly regarded historically. Known for unprofessional behavior, grumpiness when expected to job and help put others over. Reliance on methodical spots/pacing during heel control segments. Remembered fondly for angle where he defended honor of father figure after heinous attack.†I think those comparisons work, but there may be a better comp. Certainly Garvin’s feud with wifebeater trainer was better than HHH’s feud with trainee wifebeater for example.

 

Robbie Eagle/The Stro

 

My memory of Robbie Eagle in letter mans jacket challenging for Beat The Champ is that it was pretty entertaining tv. I never saw the Gorgeous George III gimmick but it sounds bad on paper. Maestro actually could have been a lot of fun as a gimmick but this was WCW. Realistically I don't see anyway you could take Eagle over HHH unless there is a shit ton of quality stuff I'm totally unaware of.

 

Lance Storm

 

HHH is better than Storm. Storm is a workrate wrestler who's spots don't like that impressive or crisp. He has unbelievably bad strikes and is generally the loosest wrestler I've ever seen. It is possible that he added more to the miracle street fight with Dreamer in 99 than HHH did to the Foley street fight in 00, but that is the only area off the top of my head where Storm was better. Well, I guess his parlaying his monotone/boring demeanor into an aspect of his gimmick is better than HHH being monotone and boring while trying to sell it as "cerebral" or "intense." Still, HHH had some offense that you might believe would hurt a premature infant, Storm does not.

 

Devon Storm/Crowbar

 

I always liked Storm as jumpy guy with a mullet in god awful gear thinking he was the coolest guy on Earth and taking crazed splat bumps. I have not seen a Devon Storm v. Ace Darling match in a long time so I have no clue how those hold up. As Crowbar you got the feeling he could have had some good matches with a better set up, but when David Flair is your tag partner what are you going to do? I would be interested to see if HHH could have been effective as a guy getting squashed by jacked up meathead. I don't remember the Warrior squash being nearly as good as Taz killing Storm. I imagine there are some "indy classics" with Storm that would rate with the second tier HHH matches. I guess I should take HHH here, because I don't even think a miracle could result in Storm having a good hour long match, but it feels dirty to pick him in this match up.

 

911

 

I never saw anything in 911. He did take a good bump for Taz once and his act of killing guys with chokeslams, was better than burying guys with pedigrees, but by every reasonable metric HHH was better.

 

The Blue Meanie

 

I will say that Meanie was a much better comedic sidekick for long haired guy with superkick finisher, than HHH was. His team with Nova was surprisingly competent and a large part of that had to do with Meanie who had some really fun "I'm a fat fuck, who's a good athlete, but not THAT good an athlete" spots. HHH's two strengths are bleeding and bumping. He may have been a better bumper than Meanie (though fat guy missing moonsault always has a nice splat sound to it), but no way he was a better bleeder as anyone who ever saw Big Don mafia hit on Meanie can attest to. HHH had better chances and as much as I joke was better equipped to have meaningful matches. But Meanie had more than his fair share of "fun" outings and a much higher percentage of them than HHH did relative to their careers (It is also theoretically possible that Lady Alexandria covering him in whip cream and licking it off is more vile than HHH fucking corpse of Katie Vick though that is neither here nor there). I guess HHH was better...maybe.

 

Iron Sheik

 

HHH never had matches near as good as the Slaughter matches. Crazed, drugged up Sheik is sad, but HHH is a guy who's one advantage over a lot of people he is otherwise worse than is "he's got the epic matches." Well here he can't even win that. Sheik had good offense, the clubs were cool, he was a much better heel, his rambling promos were actually entertaining, et. This isn't a hard one.

 

Jacques Rougeau Raymond Rougeau

 

I am nowhere near as high on the Rougeau's as some, but they are a team I think is overrated but still good. HHH is a guy I think is overrated and not really good, aside from random moments here or there. Jacques always struck me as the lesser athlete, but maybe he was just working his gimmick to perfection. He was great at hamming it up and while I thought it got over the top at times, it generally worked. Rougeau's also had some of the all time catchy theme songs in wrestling history, whereas I have always found Trips themes to be really grating and that is coming from a Motorhead fan. I would like to see some pre-WWF work from both guys, but Jacques was really great as the guy riding on the coattails of Oulette in the Quebeckers, so I have no problem putting him ahead of HHH. Ray had that cool spinning back kick, but in the absence of more meat I will go with HHH on account of lacking evidence.

 

Brian Blair

 

I would take Brunzell over HHH by a mile but that's not the question. I remember Blair being a passable guy, maybe even a quality hand, who never really did shit. In a just World that sentence would be the one we would use to describe HHH's peak years, but he got chances. Blair didn't. HHH wins.

 

EZ Money I have seen almost no EZ Money indy run, assuming it exist in large number. I am trying to remember if I have commented on him already on this thread. Anyhow I liked Hot Commodity, but Hamrick was really the guy who should have been working and he was the second. I can forgive the same sin of the original DX, because Rude was injured, but still it's distracting to see Hamrick (and Rude) at ringside knowing they would be better than the guys in the ring. Having said that, Money was a fun spot machine and the act was finer tuned than a lot of the ECW acts from the period. I really liked his finisher where he just walked away from a suplex sort of flopping the person down wildly. I also thought he was really good in his brief WCW run. Honestly there is not enough to put him above HHH, but he's a guy who almost certainly would have been better had he stayed around somewhere.

 

Shinzei Shinzaki

 

I have a fuck ton of Minchinoku Pro I need to watch and one day I'm going to watch all the FMW I can as well. In the past I always liked Shinzaki more than other smart fans. Enjoyed watching him do highspots, thought the monk gimmick was kind of cool, thought he was fun in brawls, et. The Bret matches were not great, but were very good and I remember liking the Barry Horowitz stuff also. I just cannot envision HHH doing anything compelling with Horowitz and I figure he would have sucked the life out of Bret.

 

Maxx Payne

 

Extra points for using the Fujiwara armbar as a finisher. Additional points for being part of the awesome matches with Foley v. Nasty Boys, including the spot where he almost murdered Knobbs with a suplex. Payne probably should have had a career at least as good as Balls Mahoney, but instead he disappeared. For phony wrestling rockers, he was better than Van Hammer and JT Southern which counts for something. I suspect I could justify putting him above HHH with enough footage, but until that footage comes...

 

Bob Armstrong

 

The Bullet is another one of those Rich/Wahoo types where we don't have as much of his career to judge by as you would like, but it is pretty much impossible to argue HHH is better than him (or them). Actually we can limit ourselves to far past his prime SMW commissioner era Armstrong and on that alone it would be virtually impossible to make a case for HHH. As Loss has correctly noted, not position was ever better suited for a wrestler than Bob Armstrong as commissioner of SMW. He felt natural in that role, delivered some absolutely brilliant promos and when called to battle always delivered. He was capable of getting over the seriousness of angles and laughing at the silliness of certain situations without compromising his characters integrity or making anything seem out of place or unnatural. I know HHH is new to that role, but comparing his run as authority figure to Armstrong's is just comical. Even comparing Armstrong role as "special occasion primarily gimmick match worker" to much closer to physical prime HHH's role as "special occasion primarily gimmick match worker" I see no argument for HHH. As with Buck and the boombox, Armstrong was fighting for his kids and the honor of his promotion. He was vulnerable AND tough. The baseball bat was a more credible and serious looking weapon in his hands than the sledgehammer in Trips hands. HHH has never been good about presenting himself as vulnerable and his toughness has always seemed really forced. HHH can have good matches in that setting, but they never feel like wars of attrition or blood feuds, at least not because of anything he does in the match. Armstrong as semi-unjustly accused perpetrator of nepotism dealing with accusations of bias from Cornette is just a much more compelling figure than HHH as justly accused beneficiary of nepotism dealing with accusations of bias from geeks like us.

 

Steven Casey/Dane

 

The implications of this comparison are that Chaz is to Shawn Michaels as Casey/Dane is to HHH. I guess Alexis would be Stephanie but then that would make Chaz Test or maybe Randy Savage and I’m not as comfortable with that. Actually complexity of relationship involving Chaz/Dane and Alexis may make her a better comp to Vince now that I think about it. Anyhow I actually rewatched the Bungee match today and was really impressed with the crazed stiffness of Dane’s stomps. I don’t think I’ve ever seen HHH throw stomps like that. It is possible that Scott Casey is a better comp to Trip, and Dane is a better comp to Shane, since I can’t envision Hunter taking crazy Bungee bump that Dane did. Dane was a good bumper, but really stiff and had very good execution for a guy who was often working half trained rednecks who were likely being paid in concessions. If Cornette had actually wanted to replace Stan Lane after he bolted, Dane would have actually been a tighter working version of Lane, albeit with a shittier look and likely to get winded after the second or third criss cross spot. I actually think Dane might have been slightly more talented than HHH, but he was fucking Alexis, not Stephanie McMahon.

 

DJ Peterson

 

Peterson and Trooper were a better tag unit than Hunter and Shawn. Peterson also worked as far more compelling challenger to heel Curt Hennig in t.v. match than HHH has ever looked as babyface challenger to any champ during any match. So on those two points of comparison I think Peterson safely wins. Big problem with Peterson is that he didn't have a really lengthy run. I don't remember his WWF stint, but I assume he had good matches with Horowitz and maybe Tim Horner if the timing was right. He was a cheesy babyface in an era where cheesy babyfaces worked, but he was too late to make real money off of it. I am not sure you can really say the generic version of Brad Armstrong is “better†than HHH, but I struggle to think of things he did that were obviously worse.

 

Ricky Rice

 

Rice was a one move kind of man. Honestly the one move Rice had was really great and if we were isolating the single best things each guy did and comparing them, there is nothing HHH does half as well as Rice executes a dropkick. I have seen Rice have really good performances built around that dropkick – and I have seen him crash and burn horribly. I actually think Rice could have turned out pretty good, but one of my biggest criticisms of HHH is that he has no clue how to fill up time and that is something that applies to Rice even moreso.

 

Al Madril

 

I am not a fan of Al Madril but I recently watched the angle where he busted up Kerry’s non-existent foot with a crutch and I am pretty sure I liked him a lot in one of those tags from the Texas Set. I mean I think HHH was better than him. But maybe Madril isn’t as bad as I had previously thought.

 

Buck Robley

 

I would be tempted to rate Robley above HHH purely on the strength of his delusional rants on Gary Cubeta’s old show, which were far more interesting than any rants of comparable length ever given by HHH. Then there is the shirt which is better than any piece of gear HHH has ever worn. As a wrestler Robley worked and looked the part. He was a sloppy bum, a mean old shit and a cranky bastard. He totally worked as Ueda’s partner or a guy working Porkchop Cash on 2005 indy shows in rural Mississippi. HHH was a blue blood patrician who really felt forced in that role, despite a look that was accommodating – sadly this was probably his most convincing role. HHH was probably more polished, but Robley wasn’t supposed to be polished. Robley is not my favorite wrestler of his type – that would be Bobby Bass. But it is a type of wrestler that I think has great charm and a real authenticity to it. I can’t think of a wrestler on Earth less charming and authentic than HHH.

 

Mark Starr

 

This is an interesting comparison because you basically are comparing a guy with facial hair/physical aesthetics of Village People fan to guy who was working a modified Village People gimmick. I was always a big fan of Men At Work and pre-MAW Starr, but I struggle to think of enough good performances v. Cuban Connection on Worldwide to make a compelling case. Certainly he could put a more compelling heat section together, but that could be said of ninety percent of heels in wrestling history. Maybe a review of WCW B shows would reveal enough evidence to put Mark over the top, but he’s not the guy with last name of Starr I would confidently rate about HHH.

 

J.T. Southern

 

I haven't really seen that much Southern. IIRC his satellite promo segments during Van Hammer feud included better HHH style mic work than we usually got from HHH, but that's not to say he was better on average.

 

Soldat Ustinov

 

Bix was ranting to me about how much Ustinov sucked the other day, but consider a few things. First of all he had the absolute shittiest Russian accent ever. That goes a long way with me, because in modern hipster cultural enjoying things for ironic reasons is really "in." I could see Ustinov taking off today for that reason. He would probably be a great foil for Santino, or better yet someone Ace could bring in as Otunga's former KGB bodyguard. Eventually they'd have to give him the subtle/slow Virgil style face turn and he's not as good a worker as Virgil, but I could see it working very well. Ustinov also had a really fun match with Jerry Lawler and was pretty good about being a guy who could get "lost" in a quality tag match to the point where he wasn't a distraction, whereas HHH would never have the sense to let the guys who are actually good do the work. Ustinov is clearly worse than HHH, but I think a lot of that is circumstantial

 

The Russian Brute

 

Russian Brute wasn't any good, but he did have Ox Baker as a manager. I can guaranfuckingtee you HHH would never do anything as cool as having Ox Baker be his manager.

 

Tommy Jammer

 

Jammer is a perfectly serviceable lame babyface. He would have made a decent addition to the SMW roster in 93 and probably would have gotten over huge with coal miner's daughters. I don't think he's as good as Bobby Blaze, but he would have been a respectable Bobby Blaze understudy. HHH was a pretty shitty Michaels under study and I don't even like Michaels, but you still have to give this to HHH.

 

Mitch Snow

 

Snow was not around long enough to rate above HHH, but on merit I think he was probably on track to be better. Had sound mechanics, a unique finish, was good at making squash matches fun, worked well with guys on top the few times he had a chance.

 

Eddie Edwards and Davey Richards.

 

To me they are pretty close to the same beast so it is hard to see a reason to go through both but I'll try. Edwards is more babyfaced looking and strikes me as a guy who visually would have been a good aesthetic addition to an 80's blowjob babyface tag team. Obviously you wouldn't want a guy who can't/won't sell in the Morton role, but as a homeless man's version of Robert Gibson he may have been serviceable. I have seen people argue that Edwards is less carryable than Davey is, which may be true, but that makes hiding him on the apron even more sensible. As it stands he's a pretty awful wrestler though I have some hope for him for reasons I can't fully explain. He seems like the kind of guy that might actually get good in developmental, whereas Richards seems like the kind of guy that would go to developmental, Low Ki it up and eat a few Bionic Elbow's right out the door. Richards is obviously a terrible wrestler. He's the epitome of a guy who runs through spots like they are nothing, selling nothing, conveying nothing, et. The only thing that matters is the amount of "impact" and the number of near falls. He's shit. He's worse than HHH in pretty much every respect. HHH v. Taker was a match with a lot of flaws, but guys throwing bombs and laying around cause they are old, is a lot better than guys throwing bombs, standing up, throwing more bombs, et because they are wild and young. Also Richards is not a big enough piece of shit to make you believe he is going to beat a guy, with his finish, in a match that rightly or wrongly is seen as "his to win." You just don't believe in Richards near falls like you did with HHH and the tombstone for a variety of reasons. But this is an instance where HHH being a real life fuck face contributes to him being a clearly better wrestler

 

Goldberg

 

This is a good comp because it's two guys with huge egos, who became stars during the same era, and had invincibility gimmicks where they squashed people on tv every week. To be fair I'm not sure that was supposed to be HHH's gimmick, but it was certainly a byproduct. Also not sure it was supposed to be Goldberg's gimmick but in a case where he was the exact opposite of HHH the fans were attracted to him which led to his monster push v. fans being repelled by him til they give in after unrelenting assault of him being shoved down their throats ala HHH. In any event he did about as many tv jobs as Goldberg during their relative peaks, both guys had poorly timed injuries that contributed to their peaks being cut off, both guys are probably remembered as much bigger stars than they really were, both guys had elaborate entrances that took forever, et. Goldberg was more protected in the sense that he was never really allowed to give terrible, rambling promos, or dictate the length of his own matches. Or at least he was never stupid enough to say "hey I bet I could have a really great match with Wrath if you gave us 35 minutes." I don't think there is any question that Goldberg was the better tv wrestler. If pressed you could probably point to more HHH matches that people raved about at the time, but Goldberg made squashes and competitive squashes fun. He was really good about busting out those one or two spots a match where you would think "what the fuck, how does he know how to do that?" I could watch a hundred Goldy v. Hugh Morris matches before I could watch all but a small handful of HHH tv matches. I am not a huge fan of the pedigree, but usually finisher would be an area where you would think HHH would be competitive. But Goldberg is one of the only guys in history that had a spear that looked great and the jackhammer was an awesome finish. Goldberg is a guy who everyone called limited but had really fun tv matches v. Hogan and Raven. Goldberg is a guy people say couldn't work in competitive matches, but the Regal match was pretty damn good and that DDP match was fucking great. Actually for superhero god king v. the most over ace crusher variation in wrestling matches, Goldberg v. DDP got it right the first time and had a tremendous match. HHH v. Orton have had tons of chances and while they've had good matches, they have never had anything at that level. Goldberg was actually better at getting across vulnerability than HHH and Goldberg is a guy who wasn’t supposed to be vulnerable to much anything. Post-prime HHH has been unbearable more often than not. Post-prime Goldberg was actually a good fit in the WWE and his work during that period was much better than HHH's work during the same period. I actually don't see any case at all for HHH here.

 

Ray Traylor

 

Oh seriously now, Bossman is easily better. I have already mentioned this, but Bossman/Garvin ten count finish, is better than any comparative HHH Last Man Standing style spot. Bossman is one of those guys who when you go back he ages better, and he was clearly good at the time. He’s got fun little tv matches and undercard ppv matches and tag team matches. When he was given chances to shine on the big stage, he was a good drawing opponent for Hogan who he had very good matches with (among the best in Hogan’s career). He had awesome slugfest brawls with Vader that were as convincing as you could get, something HHH’s brawls – even the good ones – really don’t get across. When he pops up as guy brawling around SMW buildings as special enforcer or in cop gear wrestling Kobashi he is charming as hell and you really wish he was a full timer. He had one of the best punches in wrestling. His angle about Big Show’s dad was far better and more memorable inappropriate comedy act than DX talking about how they were bisexual and/or wearing thongs. Kennel From Hell was a better match than Michaels/HHH Hell In A Cell, though the Michaels/HHH match may have had higher ratio of bitches. Bossman is one of those guys I think was pretty great, but want to go back and re-explore. He’s not really a guy I see as a top 100 all-time contender, but he wouldn’t look insane on such a list and I think he’s a guy who’s status could really go up with re-exploration. HHH holds up about as well as Sayama spin kicks.

 

Scott Steiner This is an interesting one because for all of Steiner’s faults, he is a guy who in old age has been fairly entertaining with the EXCEPTION of his last WWE run which was horribly fucked to hell by HHH sandbagging and idiocy. If you want to say the low of Steiner falling over himself while his pink thong whale tail was exposing itself was lower than anything HHH has done I could see it. I mean Katie Vick was bad, but fucking the dead may be a step up from roidhead guy in Prince Arthur head gear wearing Victoria’s Secret underwear. Still this is easily Steiner. When I was a kid Steiner was one of my very favorite wrestlers. He is one of the guys who solidified my fandom and I’m not ashamed to say it was because of MOVEZ. See I like the moves when they mean something now, but back then I just liked to see guys get crushed with them. Hell I still like to see guys get crushed with them and I would much rather a guy be unprofessional dude head dropping Brian Knobbs, than unprofessional guy burying the entire roster and wasting tv time with boring as piss promos. Steiner at his most dynamic and explosive was one of the most fun guys ever, whereas HHH at his most dynamic and explosive was a good piece of luggage for Mick Foley. Hell even post-prime Steiner where his finish looked like dog shit is better. Certainly the promos are a fuckload more entertaining, but I would rather watch short, stiff tv brawls with General Rection than “Cerebral Assassin†clinics. Steiner is a rare guy who actually showed lots of fun stuff inTNA and his use of racism in wrestling was more entertaining than HHH’s. Even this year I would take his terrorizing of Indians over HHH and his husband arguing about whether or not to put down the family pet.

 

Paul Roma

 

I don’t care for Roma, but mechanically I don’t see how he was worse. Actually much like HHH, Roma was a guy who was okay enough as an undercard talent working other undercard talent. I liked the Young Stallions as a kid and Power and Glory were a fun team with a cool finish. Roma looked and played the cocky douche role pretty well, sort of a pre-Jersey Shore Situation. He was badly exposed when they tried to bring him in as a Horseman because he clearly wasn’t at that level. You just don’t have your utility fielder batting cleanup. Roma suffers here because he was a douche who didn’t have the right friends. If Roma had gotten in with Flair, Arn or even Bischoff – maybe carry Arn’s bags, or give Ric a 10k loan or something, forged a civil union with Garrett Bischoff, et. – it is easy to envision us having the same thread with his name in the place of HHH. Anyhow I have to rate HHH better, because his overpushed, clearly out of place, on air position was buttressed by really excellent behind the scenes brown nosing, fellating, et. Roma is really the better on air douche though.

 

Jeff Jarrett

 

I have been talking to Loss some as he goes through the yearbooks and young Jarrett has been a real revelation for him. I have vague memories of Jarrett from that era and look forward to checking it out, but I don’t need to rely on that stuff to know that Jarrett is better than HHH. Jarrett is a guy who understands psychology and has a good enough delivery where even in overbooked, clusterfucks he usually contributes something that makes you remember he’s a good wrestler. Both guys have loyalty to people who have been horrible influences on the creative direction of the business and in both cases it is possible that sex plays a role. But I don’t get the feeling Jarrett was ever driving the bad ideas the way HHH was. Anyhow, Double J era was a lot better than Blue Blood era HHH and Michaels match was a great Jarrett style match where he led Shawn, something HHH could never do. WCW Jarrett was better than DX era HHH. As heel aces neither guy was believable. HHH had the better matches but was in a far better situation. Jarrett is better working with washed up vets as Greed match and Raven/Angle carry jobs show. He had good matches with Styles and Lethal that I liked better than any “HHH elevates undercard talent and cuts his balls off the next week†match which would be the best comparison. I thought he had a better year last year than HHH too actually. I will grant that Angle’s sloppy seconds is less impressive than Savage’s sloppy seconds.

 

Booker T

 

I am not as high on Booker T as many, but I can see no reason to rate HHH anywhere near his level. A good measure of how good a wrestler is relative to HHH is to see how horribly he sandbagged them, buried them, shit on them, undermined their push, et. Booker T was one of the more egregious victims of HHH’s justifiable insecurities. Now the most offensive thing about all of that to me was that Flair was used as a surrogate for the most racially charged material and it all felt flat compared to Flair’s “biographical†account of Rufus R Jones passing out with a bucket of fried chicken on the hood of his Cadilliac and missing a show as a result. Still one of the reasons Steiner is better than HHH is because he didn’t get Rick to call Samoa Joe a half breed, he did it himself. Anyhow Booker got the ultimate HHH kill shot, and still managed to recover. Really if you look at the scope of their careers it is very difficult to formulate a case for HHH that doesn’t come down to a deep commitment to WWE mythology and the reality is that HHH had a ton of advantages. Booker T is a guy who was good enough that he convinced people that the terrible Harlem Heat team was good and was competent enough to make people ignore the fact that Stevie Ray is one of the worst in ring performers in the history of wrestling. Conversely HHH was “saddled†with guys like Michaels, Waltman and the NAO who were far more over than he was. Booker T got his first singles push and got over huge working guys like Benoit, Martel and Finlay and coming across like he was on their level and a capable match. HHH got his first substantial run working opposite Foley and The Rock and really felt like the clear “worst†of the bunch. HHH went on to get elevated by getting a series of wins over those guys, being shoved down everyone’s throats and having the most insane push I’ve ever seen Vince give a heel. Booker T got elevated after a worked shoot with Jarrett/Hogan/Russo and when he was under the GI Bro gimmick. Amazingly Booker was more over than HHH even then. BookDust was funnier than DX skits. King Booker was better in every way than the King of Kings. Surprise Royal Rumble entrant Booker T more entertaining and worthwhile than “I’m here to kill Punk’s heat†returning hero HHH. I am a mark for guys with multiple credible finishers and Booker T had a bunch, whereas Trip has the pedigree and a shitty looking sledgehammer strike. Book has proven he can work pretty much any slot on the card in any setting and he will have a respectable match. HHH has proven he can get himself booked against guys where there is a fifty-fifty shot things might turn out well.

 

Louie Spicolli

 

For some reason Spicolli’s death affected me a lot at the time, presumably because he seemed really, really young even in comparison to all the other guys who were dropping dead. I remember being a pretty big fan of Rad Radford as a WWE enhancement talent with personality and some cool offense for the era. In ECW he really didn’t do a lot that stood out and he wasn’t in WCW long enough to mean much of anything. Having said that his gimmick of being bag carrier for Hall and Nash made for some amusing on air moments, whereas HHH real life playing of that role was not as amusing. I certainly liked him more than HHH.

 

Ernest Miller

 

I can think of a few plusses for Miller. Namely he had a better over worked entrance and despite less career stardom, he had far more successful movie career. A part of me has always wished the planned Mortal Combat/Street Fighter WCW subdivision had taken off, as I could see Miller v. Masked Klansman Tracy Smothers or Mr. Fuji-managed crane kick specialist Jamie Dundee being tremendous matches. Miller is one of those rare guys in wrestling who seemed to be good and suck simultaneously. I feel confident in saying HHH was the better in ring performer, but Miller is one of those historic anomalies that defy this is good/this sucks conventions.

 

Mikey Whipwreck

 

Mikey in a LANDSLIDE. I had remembered thinking post-WCW Mikey was not anywhere near as good as pre-WCW Mikey and that’s not really untrue, but post-WCW Mikey was better than HHH at the time and that was HHH’s recognized peak. Mikey as accidental ace was actually a lot more believable than HHH as dominating heel ace. HHH is a guy whose best matches were heavily gimmicked affairs, well Mikey is a guy who has had some great performances in heavily gimmicked affairs. Unlike HHH though the majority of Mikey’s best performances were in straight up matches v. guys like Douglas, Richards, Jerry Lynn, Candido, et. Mikey was a substantially better bumper than HHH and that’s the one area where HHH is clearly above average. Mikey’s reluctant backyarder gimmick was more compelling than any HHH gimmick. Mikey was a far better tag wrestler than HHH ever was. In an alternate universe I can imagine HHH being sent down to ECW after the current call, to work as Lance Wright’s personal assistant in ECW. I imagine HHH could have been carried to the best matches of his career v. Mikey and he would have worked well as the third best guy on his team in matches with Furnas/Lafon or Ulf Herman/Brakuss v. Mikey/Spike/Axl.

 

Jerry Flynn

 

I would really need to see more of it, but shootstyle era Jerry Flynn is more fun than any era HHH. It is actually possible that shootstyle Flynn had enough great matches where you could build a case for him over HHH on that alone though I'm not certain of it and have no clue how many matches he worked like that off hand. I do know that Flynn was just perfectly cast in WCW. Literally not sure anyone in the history of that promotion had a more believable, true to life gimmick, as aging white guy with hideous mullet who always dresses in his martial arts digs and claims to be karate specialist/runs "dojo" for children in between binge drinking but somehow can never win in a real fight is something I am pretty confident everyone has run across in their lives at least once. I don't know a town in America that doesn't have a Jerry Flynn and as a single representative of a very real archetype, he succeeds on a level HHH doesn't. I mean yes there are competitive bodybuilders who run blood cleansing schemes to beat drug tests and fuck testosterone doped near-trannies in every town too, but the average person is not likely to run into them and if you do you find them sort of repellent. Flynn is a guy you know and probably find oddly charming despite the fact that he's clearly a fraud or a has been or both. "You see these pants? Do you wanna be spinkicked by a guy wearing these pants?" is the only other attempt I can recall offhand at mass culture trying to capture the reality of the World's Jerry Flynn's, so he gets extra points for being an unexplored form in high art. Less importantly he was one of the most fun WCW jobber guys to watch and served a unique role in the jobber caste as he was a tall guy, working a martial arts gimmick so he was always allowed to look imposing and get shit in and it was usually pretty cool shit. There aren't too many guys you would rather watch Golberg destroy than Flynn and there was something exciting about seeing him work anyone because he seemed like a guy who theoretically could get pushed even though it never happened. Mechanically Flynn was better, as a representative of Americana he was better, and it is even conceptually feasible that he had a few really great matches that are better than HHH's best matches though that is pure speculation and I suspect someone will immediately call bullshit on that. Whatever, Flynn rules.

 

British Kendo Nagasaki

 

Honestly I have always avoided him like the plague because I was told he sucked. It would be wrong to say I've seen none of him, but I honestly can't remember watching more than a few minutes.

[elliott]

Goc you're awesome for doing that!

[Bierschwale]

Heroic stuff, Goc.

[goc]

My biggest regret is that no one asked Dylan about Abyss because I would have fucking loved a long diatribe about Abyss vs. HHH. At least there is still the Buck Zumhofe one.

[tim]

Requests:

Shane McMahon

Nikki Bella

[Bierschwale]

My biggest regret is that no one asked Dylan about Abyss because I would have fucking loved a long diatribe about Abyss vs. HHH. At least there is still the Buck Zumhofe one.

 

Watching those old Wildsides has shown that he was a way more entertaining promo than Trips.

[goc]

It's amusing to me that pretty much the only people who got immediately dismissed out of hand were Nikolai Volkoff, Van Hammer, Godfather, George Steele, Big John Studd, Jeff Gaylord, Tom Zenk, Warlord & Chyna.

 

Even a guy like Jerry Flynn has a long comparison (maybe my favorite one actually)

[Bierschwale]

Because this is the "ruminate upon/shit talk Hunter" Microscope thread, what's the hypothetical best possible usage of HHH in his career if he has to have a prominent and memorable role?

 

I thought of this a while ago, but I kind of think that it's him and Waltman as an American '90s-'00s version of the Bulldogs. The DBS comparison is spot on to me. It means him playing a face, yes, but the Bulldogs ate up almost all of their matches just like Trips anyway. I feel like that that could have been really effective.

 

Oh, and if someone had to have the personal career path as HHH in real life (fucking his way to VP of Operations), who's the best replacement? I always go with Dustin. Seems so obvious to get to have Dusty and Vince as in-laws alone.

[Dylan Waco]

I think HHH would have made a decent Ralphus to Michaels' Jericho.

[goc]

Can you compare HHH to Mr. Electricity Steve Regal for old times sake? HHH would have been a shitty Ralphus because he would have tried to mug the camera for more time and actively try to get himself over. HHH isn't going to want to be the butt of the joke.

[Bierschwale]

No way is Hunter sympathetic enough to be Ralphus.

[Brandon-E]

I'd like to read how HHH compares to Disco Inferno in your opinion.

[Wade Garrett]

One hell of a thread here. Holy Shit!

 

I think WWF shoulda signed Lord Steven Regal instead of Jean Paul Leveque. Really. Plus Finlay.

 

In this world The Lord takes all of the spots that HHH held in his in-ring tenure prior and post DX. The Lord vs. The Rock anyone? I still sign HHH. Then Michaels, Nash, Hall, and Kid have someone to drive them around while they're FUBAR. He can even go on to form DX with Michaels and continue in that role after. Then he finds his place?

 

Maybe Regal shacks up with Stephanie. No that's not right. Don't want to deny two people they're right to love and be loved.

[Bierschwale]

I've thought about Alex Wright in HHH's place, too. Obviously Steph likes them older, but Das Wunderkind was a total blowjob. Imagine the European market under his iron-fisted rule. He'd have been great for business.

[NintendoLogic]

Richards seems like the kind of guy that would go to developmental, Low Ki it up and eat a few Bionic Elbow's right out the door.

 

Isn't this pretty much what actually happened? Except it was probably a Pedigree rather than a bionic elbow.

 

Also, I was going to suggest an edit to the Zumhofe paragraph that greatly overstepped the bounds of good taste, but I thought better of it.

[WingedEagle]

Also, I was going to suggest an edit to the Zumhofe paragraph that greatly overstepped the bounds of good taste, but I thought better of it.

 

 

Do it.

[NintendoLogic]

Because you insisted:

 

It probably costs him a months pay or more and it was the best hope he had to score with...all the young kids in the neighborhood.

[WingedEagle]

High five!