Johnny Guitar Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I think that by this stage "The IWC" actually has a few quite large sub groupings. 1. People stuck in the early 00s mindset, similar to those laid out in the OP. The quotes Mr. Wrestling X pulled out seem to have a hardcore / ECW bias, but there's also a probably much bigger variant that has a workrate bias -- thinking Malenko vs. Guerrero in 96 was the best match ever, or that Benoit was the best worker ever or Shawn or Bret Hart and that's where the conversation ends -- and probably many many of the members here were once fans of this general type. The low-end version of one of these fans is Scott Keith. This is sort of the lazy, default "IWC" attitude, probably a good few years out of date now. These guys may well have turned their back on the current product and their point of reference is still the Monday Night Wars and their high benchmarks are still Bret, Shawn or Benoit matches. Huge amount of people out there in this boat. 2. People stuck more in an 80s / early 90s mindset. Similar to those above, but they'll point to "golden age" examples from NWA or WWF (or the territories) instead as their watermarks. Possibly more of an understanding or emphasis on "guys playing their role" here and on psychology and storytelling over workrate. Also a huge amount of people out there in this boat. 3. "Smart" fans who analyse the current product inside and out, who really really know WWE very well and possibly TNA and some of the super indies too. On the high end this is people like John Pollack and Wai Ting who do the LAW. These are basically your current smarky fanbase. Again, huge amount of people like this, especially younger fans. 4. "Post-IWC" or "enlightened" fans -- which I'd say is a lot of the people on DVDR, here and related forums. This is more your Dylan or Loss, devoted to watching lots of footage from any era, any promotion, any time and developing a real appreciation for workers of all different styles. A strong aspect of this type of fandom is challenging received wisdom and lazy opinions by actually taking the time and really watching and analyzing stuff to put those opinions to the test. Basically anyone who has stuck around PWO long enough has more than a hint of this in them. Far far fewer people in this group. 5. Specialist fan -- could be puro, could be extreme hardcore, could be lucha -- just an enthusiast for a particular niche. This may or may not come with the trait of thinking everything in said niche is better than . More people in this boat than in 4, but far fewer than 1, 2 or 3. ------------ These five categories are not mutually exclusive, could have a bit of two or three of them or even have aspects of all 5. But the vast majority slot into 1, 2 or 3. I'm probably predominantly a 2 and a 4 with a hint of 1 and a dash of 5. No interest in 3 at all. Fans are fans. Paraphrasing Loss here. But people like what they like, and hate what they hate. You'll never really a consesus on anything in wrestling because it's so varied and people's opinions shift all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Knight Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I'm not going there. Why purposely open myself up to something that you say I won't like? But I refuse to believe that anyone would actually say, word for word, that everything is Vince Russo's fault. I've posted (or, been a member, really) on that site for quite some time, and though I really can't stomach 99% of the wrestling threads there anymore, you'd be stupified at the posters on that site. I think I've lost multiple IQ points since reading some of the crap there (which is why I avoid so much of the forum). There's threads made time after time about a wrestler's hair. Seriously. What Mr. Wrestling X is saying has some truth to it. They obv. don't bame Vince Russo for rain, stubbing their toe or JFK, but I'm going to do anything to defend Russo anyway. I think Mr. Wrestling X should have left the quotes out for what he typed because it made it look like it was actually said by people. "A match isn't good unless it's a 30 min spotfest" isn't really a direct quote (unless someone shows me one), but it's more an opinion, sort of. Though "the Attitude Era is the best era in wrestling history"......yeah, that's said. A lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I'm not going there. Why purposely open myself up to something that you say I won't like? But I refuse to believe that anyone would actually say, word for word, that everything is Vince Russo's fault. I've posted (or, been a member, really) on that site for quite some time, and though I really can't stomach 99% of the wrestling threads there anymore, you'd be stupified at the posters on that site. I think I've lost multiple IQ points since reading some of the crap there (which is why I avoid so much of the forum). There's threads made time after time about a wrestler's hair. Seriously. What Mr. Wrestling X is saying has some truth to it. They obv. don't bame Vince Russo for rain, stubbing their toe or JFK, but I'm going to do anything to defend Russo anyway. I think Mr. Wrestling X should have left the quotes out for what he typed because it made it look like it was actually said by people. "A match isn't good unless it's a 30 min spotfest" isn't really a direct quote (unless someone shows me one), but it's more an opinion, sort of. Though "the Attitude Era is the best era in wrestling history"......yeah, that's said. A lot. I can see that. People are always fond of the era they grew up on. It brought in alot of new fans and it's over a decade since it ended so thats more than enough time for people to feel nostalgic as they grow older. I think 99 is the worse year in company history ring wise. But tons of people loved it and it drew huge money. So what do I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 So then was the point of this thread to point out that these fans exist? I don't get where the topic was supposed to go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 So then was the point of this thread to point out that these fans exist? I don't get where the topic was supposed to go from there. No, the point was to see where other members of the board stand on the term and whether they associate it with positive and/or negative connotations. The IWC thing did start as a joke in reference to the armchair booking boom in the early 00's, but it's recently re-emerged as an often derogatory term for fans who use the internet to socialise with other fans of professional wrestling. JVK made an excellent post about the various subcultures that have emerged and some other posters have contributed about their experiences elsewhere on the internet. The whole point of this topic as far as I'm concerned is to see how people feel about the "IWC" terminology and all that goes with that label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I want to try to work those things into daily conversation. "It's raining again! Ugh, damn Russo! Everything is his fault." I use the word jobber in everyday life as a derogatory term. I used to work at a local game store and people heard me say it all the time and started saying it themselves. Now there are big gaming circles in my city running around calling everyone jobber. It's pretty surreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Yeah, there are a lot of people with similar ideas that Mr. Wrestling X mentioned. Of course, no one is willing to go search these people or posters, etc. and neither am I. I find the term to be stupid as hell and it means nothing at all to me. So that's my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I want to try to work those things into daily conversation. "It's raining again! Ugh, damn Russo! Everything is his fault." I use the word jobber in everyday life as a derogatory term. I used to work at a local game store and people heard me say it all the time and started saying it themselves. Now there are big gaming circles in my city running around calling everyone jobber. It's pretty surreal. I run my own little private forum that sort of his its own logo and people who don't watch wrestling regularly use the following terms mainly imported there by me: "Over" - when a new member is accepted by the locals "Gimmick change" - when I change someone's screen name and they get a set of things associated with them "No sold" - when a post intended to be funny gets no reaction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I also sometimes tell my wife she's "turning heel" if I think she's angling for an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 On the point of seeing "the IWC" as a monolith: lots of older wrestlers still do exactly that. They still think "those damn internet marks" really are the stereotypical nerdy virgins living in the basement, who all have identical opinions and have no ambitions nor desires beyond shitting all over everything in the world. That mindset is changing as younger smarks-turned-wrestlers are invading the locker rooms in greater numbers, but there's still a lot of grumpy old vets who look at any wrestling fan who posts online as basically a member of the pussiest hive-mind in the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 IWC sounds like a wrestling company. I thought that was the joke. It is, International Wrestling Cartel, based out of southwest PA. Also known as home to the Super Indy tournament. IWC was also the name of AAA's top title before they created their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Every time I see the term IWC, I think of Krone Meltzer. And that's kind of what I think of the term - it's a term used only by 15 year old kids on the internet complaining that their Randy Orton scoops went ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I think it's a useful term only in describing the fairly monolithic online internet community between 96-01 or so. You know, the "heirs of Meltzer." I may be facetious here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Every time I see the term IWC, I think of Krone Meltzer. And that's kind of what I think of the term - it's a term used only by 15 year old kids on the internet complaining that their Randy Orton scoops went ignored.KRONE~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I saw the phrase "Krone Meltzer" over the years and never knew what it meant. What a bizarre video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Where does Mark Henry fit into all of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 The use of the term "IWC" has always been the dumbest ass thing on the internet. I'm sure that if I read enough baseball or futbol blogs I'd run across the phrase "internet baseball community" or "internet football community". But when I read Michael Cox at Zonal Marking, or in the wide variety of places he freelances such as ESPN and the Guardian, I don't see anyone calling Michael a leading member of the IFC. Is Bill Simmons a God of the Internet Sports Community? Folks really need to put it to bed. It's just dumb ass shit. The whole world is on the internet now. For fucks sake, when the Egyptian government was falling and folks were tweeting and blogging about what they were seeing outside their windows, did we really give a shit if they were members of some Internet Egyptian Blogging Community? Or were they just fellow folks writing about what they were seeing? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 The use of the term "IWC" has always been the dumbest ass thing on the internet. I'm sure that if I read enough baseball or futbol blogs I'd run across the phrase "internet baseball community" or "internet football community". But when I read Michael Cox at Zonal Marking, or in the wide variety of places he freelances such as ESPN and the Guardian, I don't see anyone calling Michael a leading member of the IFC. Is Bill Simmons a God of the Internet Sports Community? Folks really need to put it to bed. It's just dumb ass shit. The whole world is on the internet now. For fucks sake, when the Egyptian government was falling and folks were tweeting and blogging about what they were seeing outside their windows, did we really give a shit if they were members of some Internet Egyptian Blogging Community? Or were they just fellow folks writing about what they were seeing? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slickster Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 I was always under the impression that the IWC name was put onto fans by wrestlers/people in the business as a way to brand those fans as 'the other' and to thus invalidate their opinions. I mean, it wasn't even ten years ago ago when Triple H was bashing wrestling fans who posted on the Internet by calling them fat virgins living in their parents' basements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 I've never heard anyone in wrestling say it. I wonder if they even know the term exists. I am guessing that it was made up by some teenager whose voice hadn't changed yet. Just my prediction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Pretty much. I can't recall ever hearing a wrestler say it, unless they were a particularly web-savvy young worker and were saying it with verbal quotation marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 I suspect it's been more used by members of the IWC to slag other members of the IWC than it's ever been used by people in the business. You know that admin tool that lets you **** curse words and the n-bomb? Every wrestling board should throw IWC into that tool. IWC, marks and smarks: the holy trinity of useless wrestling fan terms. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 While I've never heard oldtimers use the specific phrase IWC, I have heard many many guys including Cornette and Heenan criticise "these internet fans who think they know it all", especially in the older shoots, when people were still somewhat protective of the business. The whole concept seems dated to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Every time I see the term IWC, I think of Krone Meltzer. And that's kind of what I think of the term - it's a term used only by 15 year old kids on the internet complaining that their Randy Orton scoops went ignored.KRONE~! Christ... I'd forgotten about that. What I loved was his inability to pronounce Meltzer, instead saying Metzler. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 While I've never heard oldtimers use the specific phrase IWC, I have heard many many guys including Cornette and Heenan criticise "these internet fans who think they know it all", especially in the older shoots, when people were still somewhat protective of the business. The whole concept seems dated to me. They said the same shit about the newsletters / dirtsheets before the internet took off. It's the same old shit. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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