Ring of Honor Wrestling

[Mad Dog]

I didn't see him but my 3DS Street Passed with ACH in the airport this morning.

[Luchaundead]

Kincaid v Dijak was insanely good, Kincaid is really a guy that ROH should already have snatched up and seeing Dijak get to show what he's capable of in a ROH match is a nice change. One take away I had from the match which is not even a negative but, more of a contemplation, from my personally experience with both guy's work this match could have been even better with Kincaid working heel and Dijak as face although it would take a lot to get past the size different to really make it work without more character development for Kincaid going into the match.

[SirEdger]

Those Mark Briscoe promos are always....something. This week's edition of the Fish Tank was no exception!

[Memphis Mark]

ROH is starting to begin in new talent . Keith Lee , Shane Taylor and Punisher Martinez all look to be regulars. I would be shock if Jason Kincaid is not a regular soon. Does this fill the void left by Strong , Moose and Alexander ? I would think as a collective group the answer would be yes.

 

After this latest rash of departures Kevin Kelly has been put in charge of talent relations . It appears that no one was doing that job.

[Luchaundead]

It could be but none of those guys are at that level yet even Alexander who was massively bumbled in ROH felt like a bigger star than any of those guys you listed do at the moment not see say they can't get there. An issue I just recently thought of was Lio Rush the guy was super hot off the ToPT and the match with Lethal and now he seems to be in mexico more than ROH when he was meant to have signed some type of contract. Rush could easily be at the level of say a Moose or Alexander at this point no question if he was just on the TV and PPVs.

[shoe]

The latest TV show really shows that Jay White is going to get a good push here. He seems like a can't miss prospect so good for them.

[shoe]

I thought the tv angle with O'Reilly and the Bullet Club. Then the match with Lethal, and then post match was the best thing they've done in ROH this year.

[WingedEagle]

Is there any reason I'd want to go to Final Battle? Can't fantasy book a lineup that makes me want to sell a friend on coming along that night.

[Dewar]

They have 4+ months to build to Final Battle, don't they?

 

I would think Lethal vs Cole, title vs hair would be on the card. Bucks vs Briscoes, Fish vs O'Reilly in a "friendly" match for the TV title that ends with them breaking up, are also possible matchups.

 

For me, I would book Kazarian/Daniels vs the Machine Guns in a loser leaves town match that ends in a time limit draw, so they are all gone.

[WingedEagle]

Ha pretty funny. I have no doubt the lineup will be solid and that a few matches will be good and most won't disappoint. But the booking is so stale that I'm having trouble envisioning anything win the current roster and its recent usage that makes this a compelling event to attend or see live.

 

By the way they just put tickets on sale which is what prompted the thought.

[Dewar]

Can't argue about the stale booking.

[Memphis Mark]

The booking is not just stale , it is bad. I bought the last two PPV 's via Comcast. The first PPV had a solid ROH title match between Lethal and Cabana . Then a Bullet Club run in ruins the match. Run in like this should be done on TV to build the PPV , not ruin the PPV.

 

The next PPV had a dreadful segment featuring the stable of Kenny King, Rhett Titus and Caprice Coleman . The whole segment was ill conceived and poorly executed by everyone involved with this nonsense. This segment was so bad , it should have not been aired , This crappy segment cut the time for the ROH title down to around 13 minutes ,. Then the ROH title match was interrupted by Taylor Hendrix and Delirious's girl friend, Mandy , who was sitting at ringside for no apparent reason . So we cut even more time off the main event to build Women of Honor feud. Nothing against the Women of Honor , but there is a time a place for everything . The women segment should have been on TV , not during a PPV main event.

 

I am not buying the next ROH PPV due to this type of crap. In general the promotion is diddy boppin along under Delirious 's watch . The main story is Adam Cole throwing a temper tantrum because Lethal is the champ and that about all there is going in ROH.

[hammerva]

If you are a fan of the Bullet Club and/or New Japan, Ring of Honor is the company for you because that is the only thing that matters. I can't think of anything in ROH now that is getting a serious push besides them. They have some really good talent but they all seem to be stuck in the middle

 

So basically Ring of Honor to me is 1996-1998 WCW with better financial management

[TonyPulis'Cap]

I’ve been enjoying ROH TV these past few weeks, and feel like it’s started to get back on track after a largely off year in 2016. In 2014/2015 I really enjoyed their TV each week, but this year, what with random best of show’s at odd times, shows from Japan being shown months after they were filmed, fallout of PPV’s not being followed up on for weeks after the event and a lot of cold matches with no storylines it hasn’t been very compelling. However the last month or so I feel like there has been something of a return to form and the build to Death Before Dishonor has been much better. I know the timeline/chronology between PPV’s, TV and VOD/DVD live events has been an issue for ROH for years, basically ever since they got weekly TV, but feel that link between them is starting to become a bit more coherent through the insertion of clips and developments from some of the live events into the TV show.

 

Obviously things could improve – I think they could add more profiles on some of the personalities in between the matches, and I think that having one storyline development/angle advancement segment – although maybe not ones involving Steve Corino and Kevin Sullivan having a picnic – works well, and better than just 3 to 4 matches with no angles attached to them. The production with the video screens is good, but I think being careful about where they run their TV is also important. The artist formerly known as the ECW Arena always looks good, as it’s intimate and looks full, but the place in Concord they did the previous few weeks was awful – with huge numbers of empty seats in the upper tiers, and big gaps on the floor. Often buildings that are smaller, but more unique come across much better on screen. As someone from the UK, check out NGW for example which is the promotion that British Wrestling Weekly on the Fight Network is based. They run the Hull City Hall – which is the old Town Hall. It’s Victorian looking and has a balcony and looks really good.

 

Jay Lethal going full face is a much better fit, and the haircut angle was pretty heated and I like where they are heading to the showdown with Cole. I also enjoyed the title match with Cabana last week. So while it can still be hit and miss, and some of their booking is still very much open to question, from a weekly wrestling standpoint, I do feel like the product is back to being pretty decent again.

[AstroBoy]

Lio Rush has had really fun matches against Jay White and Donovan Dijak in the last few weeks on ROH TV. Feels like they should really be building around guys like him, ACH, Castle, Dijak, etc. . .

 

I'll probably get around to checking out Death Before Dishonor and I think the wrestling on it should be good but from a booking standpoint it doesn't look super inspiring to me. I think Cole vs. Lethal should in theory feel like a bigger deal to me but it just doesn't.

[Luchaundead]

I was at DBD live for both nights big take aways for myself were that firstly that ROH workers are very light the forearm exchange between Silas & Shibata was night & day, secondly that Shibata is a surprisingly big worker for a guy that has such a straight forward wrestling style he seemed very hampered by the smaller ring by night 2 with Fish he didn't have as many issues but in that match with Silas most of his spots you could just feel he would have been more comfortable with a few extra feet.

 

All in all it felt like Hangman Page was meant to be the most on the rise guy coming out of the weekend but to me and everyone I spoke with it was clearly Lio Rus. Dijak, Pretty Boy Killers, & Punishment Martinez are all fantastic as squashing jobbers. Naito was clearly the most over guy on both days with Bullet Club/Adam Cole a close second nice as the biggest over act that is actually face was either the Briscoes, or KOR making me wonder how a feud between Cole & KOR can really build interest at this point as the crowd really seems to just like both guys & probably not care who wins or loses.

 

All & all I think I picked a good 1st ROH live show to go to, the differences from the indie shows I'm use to will probably me a lot less jarring if I get a chance to go to one again.

[supersonic]

Looking back on a very special match and event that unknowingly marked the end of an era...

https://cattlemutilationnet.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/a-decade-later-rohs-absolute-creative-apex-concludes/

[Grimmas]

The fact Dalton Castle is not their biggest star shows how clueless this company is.

[bradhindsight]

^ This is a good talking point. I saw something around the Young Bucks lately in the same vein. It was tweets from intelligent commentators who questioned why the Bucks hadn't had the belts in two years, and insinuated ROH was wasting them. This boggled my mind - here's a tandem that main events TV and house shows regularly (and the upcoming PPV) and is involved in their biggest storyline of 2016! Why do they need belts?

 

How do you define biggest star? Champion?

 

I would say Dalton is easily their most over act, right there with the Bucks. He has a ton of merchandise and is regularly pushed on TV. His character is bullet proof when it comes to wins and loses.

 

I think he *is* one of their biggest stars. He's marketed as such on posters for their shows.

 

He doesn't need a title to get over, which is an accomplishment in itself, but is certainly frustrating then when he's kept out of those stories because we want to see our favorites elevated like that. The TV title seems like a no-brainer (and they could have done something longer and cooler with Fish given their relationship), but looks now like he'll be in the 6-man title conversation.

 

I don't think that's an indication of cluelessness - they clearly know how popular he is and if there is roster turnover, they have someone ready-made to quickly elevate.

[Grimmas]

Dalton should be in the main event programs and have the company built around him. He is the most popular person they have, and even when they have him lose it's not hurting him yet.

 

A guy like that gives you two options. Keep him where he is, because he's not going to be hurt by whatever or to strap a rocket on him and go with it and maybe make the product more popular.

 

Dalton is someone the company could build around, yet the shows are built around what?

[shoe]

To me the problem is ROH has made the championship so important. Dalton Castke is their most over act. Yet doesn't need the belt. So you have a conflict to the fans and a booking philosophy.

[Grimmas]

To me the problem is ROH has made the championship so important. Dalton Castke is their most over act. Yet doesn't need the belt. So you have a conflict to the fans and a booking philosophy.

That's a pretty great observation and really something to think about.

 

What would happen if, say, Dalton Castle was given the World Title at Final Battle this year?

[shoe]

I think if you put the belt on Castle it will slowly strip him of his uniqueness. For starters, the feuds will be about the belt, not about things that make him special. If he's champ the boys impact would lessen. He should be pushed more near the top and work in multi mans on top. All his feuds should be personal.

[Grimmas]

I think if you put the belt on Castle it will slowly strip him of his uniqueness. For starters, the feuds will be about the belt, not about things that make him special. If he's champ the boys impact would lessen. He should be pushed more near the top and work in multi mans on top. All his feuds should be personal.

Stone Cold didn't have a problem having personal feuds with the title, nor did Flair.

 

That seems like ROH has shitty bookers if you can't keep him unique with the title.

[shoe]

Well that's what we are dealing with. Delirious had been stale for awhile . With Flair he was able to make his feuds personal over the belt . With Austin I feel his era helped with the decline of the value of the belt. Once Bret lost the belt. It began to lose it's luster as World Title.