[1990-07-07-NWA-Great American Bash] Ric Flair vs Sting

[Loss]

Talk about it here.

[Loss]

I'd love to know what the reasoning was in not going 30+ minutes to give Sting a classic match for his title win. The only thing I can think of is that they were worried Sting couldn't work a long match that long since he had been out a few months. But he looked in great shape, and seemed to have trained hard for his return, so I suspect he could have held up. The match isn't really that good. The moment is a terrific one, but this was just 16 minutes of exchanges and spots with no real progression or structure behind them. It was overbooked beyond the point of necessity. I think there are probably things they could have done in hyping this up to signal to fans that if they bought the pay-per-view, they weren't going to be robbed of a conclusive finish for the third time in a row in the main event. Here though, Flair/Sting was surrounded by crap. I echoed Jim Ross's sentiments that he'd like to cut through all of that and get to the match.

 

When Warrior beat Hogan, Hogan got a big chunk of Warrior's spotlight in the post-match because Hogan took it. Here, Flair got a big chunk of Sting's spotlight because Sting gave it to him. While it's in some ways classy that Sting put over Flair so strongly, considering how much heat Flair took to keep the belt so he could drop it to Sting when he returned, I don't think they were the right comments for that moment.

 

I also wondered why Luger wasn't at ringside, or part of the post-match celebration. Perhaps the promotion knew deep down that Luger might overshadow Sting if he was part of the moment.

[jdw]

I'd love to know what the reasoning was in not going 30+ minutes to give Sting a classic match for his title win. The only thing I can think of is that they were worried Sting couldn't work a long match that long since he had been out a few months. But he looked in great shape, and seemed to have trained hard for his return, so I suspect he could have held up.

Two possible reasons:

 

* Sting wasn't 100%

 

He did come back sooner than expected after the initial injury report.

 

* the show had time constraints

 

There use to be major issues if you went past your 3 hour window. I think we all remember the show where Hogan/Warrior and Goldberg/Page had that issue, and that was years later when WCW was doing major PPV business. Back in 1990 it would have been very costly.

 

The show had 11 matches on it. That's a lot of ring entrances and exists in addition to the matches themselves. Vader's match may look like a squash, but he had that long entrance if I recall correctly. It would be interesting if someone had the original live unedited broadcast to see how close they were to 2:45:00 to 2:50:00 when they went off the air. Given they wanted Sting to have a post match speech, I don't know if they had another 15 minutes they could have given to match time.

 

My guess is that it's a little bit of both.

[PeteF3]

This was pretty meandering and Flair-vs.-Sting by numbers for about 3/4 of the way, with Sting doing way too much no-selling for my taste, especially for all of Flair's chops. Overbooking aside I got into the Dudes with Attitudes forming a human wall to stave off the Horsemen and the finish was pretty well put-together and Sting's victory is a genuinely cool moment. The victory speech definitely felt flat. I'd rather listen to it than the Warrior's talk of Normals but yeah, he gushed over Flair a little too much for what was supposed to be a hateful feud.

[soup23]

These jokers sit on their hands for Doom/RNR but go ape shit for El Gigante. Ole get surprised again when he gets snuck up on. Ross does a great job calling this match. I liked this way more than everyone else so far. It could have used a few minutes and some of stings selling was a little spotty, but the moment was great and they did a good job not overbooking the actual match. I have no problem with Sting giving respect to Flair and thought he was humble. I also thought the actual work was kind of a greatest hits style variety but the work was good and the finish was clever.

[BrickHithouse]

It was overbooked beyond the point of necessity.

About the only thing missing was Jim Herd taking Flair's knees out with a baseball bat as he walked that aisle. As a kid watching this, the odds were stacked so much in Sting's favor I thought they could have stuck Tom Zenk in the main event and he'd have won handily. It was such a letdown then because it was such a foregone conclusion.

[shoe]

I liked the match. Some of the nice little things were Flair throwing Sting on the knee to the outside. Flair throwing Sting into the ring on his knee. The crowd heat was great. The moment was amazing. The stips were crappy. Still I like this more than Capital Combat. I too wish we would have had twice the time. We really would have seen Flair work the knee.

[Kevin Ridge]

Flair has the odds against him with The Dudes with Attitudes around the ring and Ole handcuffed to El Gigante. I was expecting more but can understand not trying to push it with Sting. Sting gets the Scorpion Death Lock on and the Horsemen make a delayed appearance but look pretty weak by backing down to the Dudes and then just disappearing all together. Flair escapes the Death Lock and when he finally gets the figure four on he gets rolled up. Didn’t like this finish. Sting should have put him away with the Deathlock.

[Zenjo]

They could've done anything and it would have been okay as long as they put the strap on Sting. The title change felt inevitable. Ideally they'd have gone longer with some real legwork but then it might have ended up like Kobashi's aborted comeback in Feb 2002. Sting wasn't ready for a long match yet. He also did way too much no selling. The ending wasn't done right either. I want to see the new champion go over with conviction, not with a lame inside cradle. Despite the problems I still got some enjoyment as a Sting fan. A new era had begun, or had it?

[Rock_Of_Jericho]

This may not have been a five-star match, but I still consider this a classic. It was a year in the making and the '89 & '90 Great American Bash served as bookends to this feud (at least until all of the Black Scorpion crap), with Sting and Flair beginning the year as friends and ending as enemies. I'm not sure why JYD and Orndorff got involved in this feud and the lack of Luger being there at the end was a disappointment, but this was, in effect, meant to be a passing of the torch and one of the more feel-good moments I witnessed as a child.

[BruiserBrody]

Flair has the odds against him with The Dudes with Attitudes around the ring and Ole handcuffed to El Gigante. I was expecting more but can underr stand not trying to push it with Sting. Sting gets the Scorpion Death Lock on and the Horsemen make a delayed appearance but look pretty weak by backing down to the Dudes and then just disappearing all together. Flair escapes the Death Lock and when he finally gets the figure four on he gets rolled up. Didn’t like this finish. Sting should have put him away with the Deathlock.

I agree with your opinion on the finish 100%

[garretta]

I thought this match was perfect for what it was supposed to be, which was WCW's answer to 1/23/84. Sure, Flair got more offense against Sting than Sheik did against Hogan, but the idea was for Sting to dominate the match and go over clean, not get a lucky pin after a thirty-minute back-and-forth five star classic. This was supposed to be a foregone conclusion, and it was only because Flair was Flair that he wasn't squashed like a bug, never to return to World title contention. In fact, if you look at it that way, the match was too long, not too short.

 

Kevin mentioned that Sting should have made Flair submit in the scorpion, and I'd agree.......if it wasn't Flair. He deserved to keep at least some of his dignity on what was supposed to be the way out (as a World champion) for him, and submitting to Sting would have made him impossible to book as a contender for any sort of title going forward. They probably still saw money in a U.S. title series between Luger and Flair, so they had to keep Flair as at least somewhat of a threat to beat Luger and possibly win his way back into World title contention.

 

The lack of Luger in the postmatch baffled me too. I think Loss's theory may be correct; the Steiners were exclusively a tag team, and neither JYD nor Orndorff was popular enough in WCW to rival Sting, plus they were a lot older. Some people probably still wanted Sting/Luger, which wasn't in the cards in any way, shape, or form, so it was best to keep Lex away from Sting in public.

 

I thought the postmatch speech was very gracious. Plus, what did Sting still have to fear from Flair? There were no doubt a few house show rematches in the works, but Sid was his next big threat. In the eyes of the pay-per-view audience, the feud was over, and Sting had won like he should have back in February at WrestleWar. He could afford to be as gracious as he was to a man he'd never face again in front of a worldwide audience, or so he thought.

 

Was this a classic match? Probably not, but it did its job. Not every wrestling match is supposed to be a classic or aesthetically pleasing to the discriminating viewer. WCW had to get the belt to Sting quickly and decisively, and style points didn't count. They'd missed five months with him on top and couldn't afford to waste any more time or leave any doubt as to who The Man was going forward. Of course, they ended up cutting that "Man" off at the knees (no pun intended) but that's a rant or several for future days.

 

Congratulations to the Stinger! OOOOWWWWWWWWW!

[drew wardlaw]

I really thought it was a great moment when the Dudes stand up on the ramp and for a shield to prevent the Horsemen from running out. That's one of the few things I remember as a child watching this, and it still gives me goosebumps. I just think it's a great good vs evil moment of triumph. Also, Sting gives a great look at that point, really concerned about what's going on on the outside. As for the match, I really enjoy it. I think it got the job done and while it's not an absolute classic, I think it's a good main event match. Sting has some selling issues, but I actually think he sells the knee decently enough to make it believable, especially with Ross and Caudle doing a good job on commentary kind of working around the no selling, questioning if he's at 100%. Ideally, it would have been about 5 minutes longer, maybe add some more to the heat segment or something, but I thought the finish was also really hot and I can't complain. As for Sting's promo, I get what he was going for, and he comes off very humble and looks good, but I think we went a bit too far putting Flair over almost at his own expense. It kind of epitomizes Sting's entire career, in that he's The Man, but doesn't quite get the importance of it or really take charge and act like it. Anyway, good main event to close a really good show.

[dawho5]

I didn't mind the post-match promo. It set Sting apart from Flair. Sting is a humble guy who will give credit where it is due (regardless of face/heel). Flair would have gone on and on about how Sting couldn't get the job done. It makes sense. Match is perfectly fine, but they rushed Sting back to get the strap on him so I get it being short.