Current WWE

[Smack2k]

I posted this on a group on Facebook when someone mentioned another bad WWE ratings and reasons why, including what else was on TV. And always hearing Vince is gonna shake things up..

 

Wanted to know what you all thought about this, any other reasons or comments about it?

 

They could have run unopposed last night and it wouldnt have mattered.

 

We keep hearing "shakeups", what can they do? Honestly, what can they "shakeup" if they continue this same path. No amount of dedication or idea sessions, firings, is gonna change it.

 

We have a PPV this weekend built and named after a match that at one time was basically called "Hell's Chamber" by JR. There will be multiple matches in this cell and 0 people will bleed? Whether or not Ryback wins, Punk should be a mess after that match...That says it all for me...there is nothing they can do to "shake this up" as long as they worry about what sentatorial candidates think of their product..

 

Did WWE give a FUCK about that stuff in the late 90's? Hell no, and it got them attention, good and bad, leading to BIG ratings and incredible TV.

 

Plus, as I mentioned last night, we have the following. Before I mention them, i will say what these athletes do is incredible and something I admire them for and could never do. That being said.:

 

1. Wrestlers who work a whole match together in the back piece by piece and then perform it, instead of an idea and then going on feeling takes something away in the match. I know some of them cant do it another way...make them learn. Punk and Danielson surely could do it, encourage it.

 

2. No Competition. As long as TNA isnt close in terms of popularity (which it isnt) nothing will change. Plus, TNA is most of a hard core product that I like, but they need better overall ideas and bookers. A huge "shakeup" there could be the real answer.

 

3. The talent really has no formal national training like the past territorial system. Up through the last boom and the beginning of the down period, the lead dogs in the WWE were the end of the group that went through all those tough times in the territories and worked hard for what they got, partied hard and performed hard. It was a different type of person then, if you get what I mean. Did these guys train hard and work harder than I ever could. Yeah they did, but almost NONE of them went through what the old guys went through, even getting into the business meant taking a ton of lumps, like being beaten in. But that is America everywhere anymore..dont make anyone really bust their ass for it, you might hurt their feelings or get sued for it.. Bull shit...

 

4. Finally, the company itself. They arent a wrestling company anymore, they are an entertainment company. Shit, they arent World Wrestling Entertainment anymore, they are simply WWE. The word itself is gone They have TV writers with no wrestling background booking for the most part, writing scripts for guys to read...how can I get really behind that? You can memorize a script..good for you..where is the passion in your character and drive.

 

And on and on....

 

For all those reasons, that rating is NEVER gonna change considerably under the current product. Drop the time to earlier so your younger kids can watch and that may help..but for us, outside a good thing here and there, with the current day, the days of greatness are gone.

 

I really believe to change it, stop watching it and they'll be forced to change to stay alive..the same way I feel about Pirates fans here in Pittsburgh, you want true change..stop going to fireworks night with Boyz II Men Performing...

[Ricky Jackson]

Current WWE is just really, really BORING. I try to watch Raw, but God, 3 hours of endless twitter plugs and other "social media" shit and I tap out pretty quickly. I'm just not interested in what Vince is selling these days. I really like Bryan and Punk and Sheamus and a few others, but the overall presentation is banal and nothing really seems to matter on a week to week basis. Basically I'm just waiting for January to roll around for the build to Mania and see what happens then.

[Matt D]

There's never a sense of WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT? which was a huge part of 97 Nitro's success or HOW WILL HE GET OUT OF THIS ONE which was a huge part of 98 Raw's success.

[anarchistxx]

The biggest problem to me is a sense of sameness. The majority of workers look essentially the same the same, have the same character, talk the same, feuds are booked the same, matches are worked the same, the structure of shows is the same, commentators throw the same terminology down our throats night after night.

 

The ideas a regurgitated and regurgitated. Authority figure, Jericho-type heel. I watched Raw last week and this dude was doing a blueblood gimmick - when has that ever got over? Anyone who gets that gimmick overacts, over exaggerates - the entire gimmick is an unrealistic cliche, so people don't buy into it. The only way heels get heat these days (and this includes CM Punk) is by insulting the crowd.

 

There is no sense of surprise to anything, you can change channel and you won't miss anything, the matches are nothing to write home about, the long, drawn our in ring promos just say the same stuff again and again. Big Show and Sheamus must have had exactly the same interaction on all of the last six shows pretty much. Give me Bossman dragging a coffin and squealing "you're a bastard Paul Wight" over Sheamus making lame scripted jokes any day of the week.

 

I don't know what the solution is, but they could start by bringing in guys who have a different look. Briscoe Brothers are guys who could genuinely get over in the WWE setting, but they were deemed not 'cosmetically pleasing' enough if that amazing promo is to be believed. What about Necro Butcher? He would get over huge with that ridiculous look (with a little tweaking), even if he'd end up playing comedy face within a few months. Look back to 1999/2000, and you have the Hardyz, The Rock, Mankind, Big Show, Austin, 2 Cool, Dudley Boys, Guerrero, Benoit, all massively over guys who looked and acted completely different to one and other. The main thing is that it felt natural, whereas everyone in the WWE today, reading their scripted promos in their carefully designed t-shirts and clean, made up look just feel totally forced. Live TV is always better when it feels real and organic and exciting.

[Smack2k]

You know anarchistxx, that was the one other thing I left out..that everyone is based on "look", not talent.

 

They are probably missing out on SOO many good guys because they arent adonis's or have that perfect sculpted look.

 

And they have Punk right there to prove it doesnt matter...

 

Also, the overacting and overreacting in their given "gimmick" is another piece of evidence to let these guys be who they are and talk for themselves...and if they cant..bye bye, find ones that can.

 

And I also believe that the internet's growth hurt WWE and all other companies as it got bigger and bigger and more people started to look behind the curtain and these guys became just like a lot of other celebrities with all their off screen stuff brought up. They guarded those secret's with soo much passion in the past, and now it doesnt matter...

 

A guy can look like he is gonna be good, but you can find out quickly he has no hope online. And yes, not a ton of people use the internet for wrestling news, but thoes that do will likely tell others aroudn them about it.

[Matt D]

You know anarchistxx, that was the one other thing I left out..that everyone is based on "look", not talent.

Do other people agree about this for 2012 WWE?

[cm funk]

I don't get why people are making a big deal about the ratings, when the reasons for them crashing lately are simple. 3 hours is a killer, and they have a ton of competition on mondays. This past Monday against Bears-Lions, the final debate and game 7 of the NLCS there was no chance they wouldn't drop. Not to mention that their biggest ratings draw, Cena, is kind of non-entity right now. Cena not wrestling on tv hurts them. It's not any more complicated than that. Ratings fluctuate, and they'll swing back up in February-April like they always do.

 

Hell in a Cell is a terrible, fundamentally flawed PPV concept. It was terrible when they first started with it. The only way it could work is if they planned programs months out to culminate at that show, but it's yet to actually be executed in that fashion. They've killed the gimmick, not to mention that with the Elimination Chamber less than 6 months later it's just total overkill. For some reason WWE's themed PPV concepts just never live up to their potential.

 

Overall, I rather enjoy the current WWE product, which I guess puts me in the minority around here. Sure there's a lot about it I don't like and lots of room for improvement, lots could be done better, but there's lots of things I like about it too. Lots of good talent and characters, lots of good matches on TV. The current focus on tag wrestling is good, Punk and Heyman have been great, and guys I like like Bryan and Cesaro are getting good pushes. I've been watching for 25 years or so, it's been far worse in the past.

[cm funk]

The ideas a regurgitated and regurgitated. Authority figure, Jericho-type heel. I watched Raw last week and this dude was doing a blueblood gimmick - when has that ever got over? Anyone who gets that gimmick overacts, over exaggerates - the entire gimmick is an unrealistic cliche, so people don't buy into it. The only way heels get heat these days (and this includes CM Punk) is by insulting the crowd.

Are you talking about Sandow? Sandow is over, and is one of the best new characters on the roster. I didn't think I'd like him when he first debuted, but he's been a pleasant surprise.

[cm funk]

as far as needing to have "the look" goes....CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, the guys who get maybe the most TV time in the company, pretty much disprove that notion. Sheamus' entire gimmick is that he's a pale ginger rather than a tanned pin up model. Of course big guys with impressive muscles get pushed.....it's always been that way and it's not just limited to WWE. It's an old complaint that doesn't hold as much water as people like to think.

[Log]

I actually really dig recent (last 4-5 years) WWE from an in-ring perspective. With some guys, it's almost like the limitations put on their matches has made them more creative. Guys like Christian, Bryan, Punk, etc.

 

Present-day WWE is perfect for a dvr society. I watch it on Tuesday most of the time. I can see what matches and segments people are talking about the next day, and skip the rest.

[JerryvonKramer]

The difference between WWE today and the product from before 2001 is like the difference between manufactured pop and rock music. Whenever I see current WWE, the wrestlers feel as interchangable as members of a boy band or X Factor winners. And it feels as bland and disposable as that.

 

It's not really wrestling in my book, I don't consider current WWE to be even comparable to any wrestling from the 80s and 90s. They are as incomparable, in my mind, as boy bands and rock groups or proper singer/songwriters. One CM Punk or one Jericho flying the flag of how things should be done can't change the fact that they are working in an impossibly plastic environment. I remember even as early as 2005 watching the interplay between Flair and various other guys and everything was so micromanaged that even Flair came off as phony and scripted.

 

I'd go as far as to say that I despise what WWE has become. I turned Wrestlemania 28 off mid-way through because it was like watching a fucking computer game.

[El-P]

Good computer games have way more life and organic feel than current WWE. I'll probably get interested in the build-up to Mania with Rocky coming back, and hopefully Brock in a good match (please, no HHH), but the excitement from post-Mania last year didn't sustained more than a few weeks, and I was ff most of RAW anyway, going into segments I was interested in. Sad because I feel in another environment (and no, I'm not speaking about Roh or TNA, more like old-school ECW or WCW/WWF late 90's) I would love current incarnations of CM Punk and Daniel Bryan.

[Smack2k]

Good computer games have way more life and organic feel than current WWE. I'll probably get interested in the build-up to Mania with Rocky coming back, and hopefully Brock in a good match (please, no HHH), but the excitement from post-Mania last year didn't sustained more than a few weeks, and I was ff most of RAW anyway, going into segments I was interested in. Sad because I feel in another environment (and no, I'm not speaking about Roh or TNA, more like old-school ECW or WCW/WWF late 90's) I would love current incarnations of CM Punk and Daniel Bryan.

You said a ton....like a lot of us, we will get excited for Mania because Rocky comes back, or Brock comes back (neither regular WWE guys). The WWE is really at the point where without some of their old stars, they have nothing for their big show anymore...

 

Hell, Taker may not be there this year due to injuries and its a HUGE deal to WWE. A legend like that (and Rocky) should enhance Wrestlemania, not be the focus of it in 2012.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

The WWE is like a lot of big-time corporations.

 

1. Build your product through hard work, innovation, and some luck.

2. Become massively popular and establish your brand as THE brand.

3. Become really conservative and do whatever you can to preserve your brand and market dominance instead of grow it even more.

4. Money continues rolling in. Stock holders are happy. Ownership remains oblivious to potential long-term problems.

5. Maybe those potential long-term problems become actual problems. Maybe they don't. Time will tell.

[NintendoLogic]

The WWE is like a lot of big-time corporations.

 

1. Build your product through hard work, innovation, and some luck.

2. Become massively popular and establish your brand as THE brand.

3. Become really conservative and do whatever you can to preserve your brand and market dominance instead of grow it even more.

4. Money continues rolling in. Stock holders are happy. Ownership remains oblivious to potential long-term problems.

5. Maybe those potential long-term problems become actual problems. Maybe they don't. Time will tell.

This reminds me of the five stages of decline.

 

 

I'm inclined to say that the WWE is in Stage 4, but they're not really looking for salvation. They do lots of things out of desperation, but they tend to be short-term band-aids rather than attempts to turn things around in the long term.

[Smack2k]

I don't get why people are making a big deal about the ratings, when the reasons for them crashing lately are simple. 3 hours is a killer, and they have a ton of competition on mondays. This past Monday against Bears-Lions, the final debate and game 7 of the NLCS there was no chance they wouldn't drop. Not to mention that their biggest ratings draw, Cena, is kind of non-entity right now. Cena not wrestling on tv hurts them. It's not any more complicated than that. Ratings fluctuate, and they'll swing back up in February-April like they always do.

Sure, they'll jump up, but to what, a low 3? And why? Only cause its Wrestlemania time and WWE knows they'll get that number, so they play it safe over the last 6-7 years and stay the course with the PG-esque boring stuff...

 

They, or TNA, need something to really kick pro wrestling back into gear...what it is, I dont know right now, but I doubt WWE, who doesnt even call themselves wrestling will be the answer going forward. They make money, like someone else said, why take a risk with the chance to make less coming out of it? The company has become just like another poster said, a large corporation that is at Step 4 right now....

 

CMfunk, what do you think about the way the wrestlers are handled now, with complete scripts (written by TV writers) and matches planned out the whole way through? Just curious as I like your differing opinions here!

[Matt D]

Aren't they doing fine when it comes to making money right now though? A lot of that is overseas, but they've been a lot worse off than they are now. The ratings are almost solely due to the addition of the third hour which I imagine that makes them even more money, far more than they theoretically lose by dropping a few points in the ratings. They also have the Main Event show that just started as well as the Saturday Morning show. This isn't 1986 when they're buying their TV time.

[El-P]

Add to that WrestleMania which will probably do monster business again this year.

That being said, WCW was doing shitload of money in 1998.

[Loss]

They are doing fine, which is great for them, because they have a really strong business model and have found ways to be profitable during what would have been a decline under a traditional wrestling business model. Kudos to them for finding so many new revenue streams, expanding into social media (whether the hard indicators are there that it has paid off now or not, it will eventually) and for doing more effective global touring and marketing.

 

It sucks for wrestling fans. Revenue streams other than house show attendance and PPV buys are terrible for wrestling fans, because it allows a wrestling promotion to be profitable without good wrestling and booking. So then, they give us what amuses/entertains them, instead of what their fans actually want to see, because they've built a fairly bulletproof infrastructure.

 

The lengths WWE has gone to in order to simultaneously maintain profitability and avoid addressing their creative problems are pretty staggering.

[JerryvonKramer]

http://www.wrestlenewz.com/wrestling/exclu...d-wwe-creative/

 

Are these stories about Heyman being on the creative team now to be believed?

[Matt D]

Gerwitz is gone. That's a pretty big deal if you ask me.

 

Also, there's a huge difference between who want a build to house shows or even PPVs and those who want to increase weekly ratings. We've heard from both in this note.

[Marty]

Aren't they doing fine when it comes to making money right now though? A lot of that is overseas, but they've been a lot worse off than they are now. The ratings are almost solely due to the addition of the third hour which I imagine that makes them even more money, far more than they theoretically lose by dropping a few points in the ratings. They also have the Main Event show that just started as well as the Saturday Morning show. This isn't 1986 when they're buying their TV time.

I think PPV buys are also up from last year, not just in total but for at least almost each show compared to that show's buys the previous year.

 

That said, last year's PPV buys, aside from WM with Rock hosting it, Survivor Series with Rock teaming with Cena and MITB, were a pretty bad year compared to years before that.

[Loss]

Gerwitz is gone. That's a pretty big deal if you ask me.

 

Also, there's a huge difference between who want a build to house shows or even PPVs and those who want to increase weekly ratings. We've heard from both in this note.

Gewirtz being gone is indeed a big deal. But Gewirtz didn't write to be effective. He wrote to please Vince. Those things are not the same. Putting someone else in that spot doesn't fix that problem.

 

At the same time, Vince to this day has fundamental understandings of certain things that I worry HHH won't. So Vince stepping aside would help the company in some major ways. Vince stepping aside would hurt the company in some major ways.

 

But I think he's the problem in Creative, more than anyone on the writing team. He's also probably the only guy who's smart enough to turn things around.

 

So there you go.

[cm funk]

I don't get why people are making a big deal about the ratings, when the reasons for them crashing lately are simple. 3 hours is a killer, and they have a ton of competition on mondays. This past Monday against Bears-Lions, the final debate and game 7 of the NLCS there was no chance they wouldn't drop. Not to mention that their biggest ratings draw, Cena, is kind of non-entity right now. Cena not wrestling on tv hurts them. It's not any more complicated than that. Ratings fluctuate, and they'll swing back up in February-April like they always do.

Sure, they'll jump up, but to what, a low 3? And why? Only cause its Wrestlemania time and WWE knows they'll get that number, so they play it safe over the last 6-7 years and stay the course with the PG-esque boring stuff...

 

They, or TNA, need something to really kick pro wrestling back into gear...what it is, I dont know right now, but I doubt WWE, who doesnt even call themselves wrestling will be the answer going forward. They make money, like someone else said, why take a risk with the chance to make less coming out of it? The company has become just like another poster said, a large corporation that is at Step 4 right now....

 

CMfunk, what do you think about the way the wrestlers are handled now, with complete scripts (written by TV writers) and matches planned out the whole way through? Just curious as I like your differing opinions here!

 

Don't like overscripted promos

 

Don't like matches that come over overly choreographed in any promotion, but I don't see that being a problem in WWE. I quite enjoy the current WWE style.

[NintendoLogic]

It's true that it's basically impossible for the WWE to lose money under its current business model, money pits like the network and the film division notwithstanding. But every single business indicator is in a steady state of decline. It's not unthinkable that Raw ratings could fall to the point where USA seriously considers pulling the plug, to say nothing of a Jamie Kellner type coming into power at NBCUniversal.