IRS vs. Mike Rotunda vs. Michael VK Wallstreet

[JerryvonKramer]

Hey, Will, knock yourself out.

 

I said recently that I think Mike Rotunda's peak is the IRS character. Not only did he do his best promos at this time (awful one-liners aside), but also his work in the ring -- in my view -- benefitted from the WWF style. I've seen quite a bit of Varisty Club era Rotunda recently from 87 and 88 and he sucks. Why? Because his matwork is so bloody boring and he doesn't nothing to make it more interesting. He's happy to sit in a chinlock or an armbar for 6 minutes at a time. In the WWF, he just wasn't allowed to do that because of the booking style, so we get a different way of working from him. Yes, he'll still do an abdominal stretch or a chinlock, but he's only allowed to sit in it for 2 or 3 minutes maximum.

 

By 95/6 and his second WCW run as Michael Wallstreet, he's past it.

 

Would people agree with this assessment or not?

Rotunda is an odd wrestler in that I don't think he ever quite put the pieces together, but the pieces were there for him to be a very good wrestler. I can't recall ever not being bored to tears by an IRS singles match, even though the flying clothesline might have been the best wrestling move in the WWF when he worked there. I do like things from his NWA run, mostly in 1989. He had really good TV matches with Flair, Arn and Pillman, a super-stiff one with Rick Steiner between Starrcade and Chi-Town, and I really thought he rose to the occasion to drop the TV title to Sting in a very good match. He's not someone I think about enough to really focus on all that much, but I think he was on the right track in '89. His style was well-suited for the TV title, and he would have been better in that role then than he was in 1988.

 

I think I just said everything I could possibly ever say about the guy.

Rotunda's late 92-93 is better than his 91-early 92, I'll say that having watched a lot of stuff recently. I've not yet seen his singles run into 94 or his tag stuff with Bam Bam or Tatanka or whoever, but I was actively surprised by how much I enjoyed him in late 92.

I'm a big fan of Varsity Club-era Rotundo. Yeah, not the most dynamic of wrestlers, but I generally enjoyed what he brought to the table. I thought he was very good at walking that line between accomplished wrestler who's a threat to anyone on the roster, and guy who was hanging onto his belt through pure luck. Always looked smooth in the ring, had some nice high spots, and one fo the better clotheslines in wrestling. Not just the jumping version- even from a standing position it really looked like he was creaming guys with that thing. Perfect TV title-level guy, or guy to have in a tag team or faction. I was quite impressed with IRS (relative to expectations) when I rewatched early 90s WWF stuff. Boring as fuck in singles matches, but I thought he brought the most to the Money, Inc matches I saw. Still weird to me that they renewed his singles push as late as 95, though.

I'm all about Varsity Club Rotundo too. Really good, solid worker either in tags or single, and the gimmick for perfect for him. He was never the same afterward (I do think he had some injury at some point too).

Jerry, start an IRS threading the Microscope so I can shit on him there instead of here.

[goodhelmet]

They all suck. At least Bray Wyatt is his son. That's all I got Jerry.

[JerryvonKramer]

[Loss]

They all suck. At least Bray Wyatt is his son. That's all I got Jerry.

You wanted a new thread started just to say that?

[goodhelmet]

No, I wanted a new thread to keep the suck of IRS out of the other thread.

[KrisZ]

IRS was easily his best run personality wise. As a worker it was when he first turned heel with the Varsity Club although he was still bland as hell. I did dig the whole Captain Mike gimmick in 1990 with Norman as a guilty pleasure. Mike controlling Norman & Abby was hilarious.

[El-P]

I did dig the whole Captain Mike gimmick in 1990 with Norman as a guilty pleasure. Mike controlling Norman & Abby was hilarious.

I hated Norman, like I hate most babyface "slow" character in wrestling. But damn, that trio was the most random thing ever in WCW. WAResque in its randomness. Captain Mike was really a stupid gimmick, but I heard Rotundo actually got a boat out of it !

[Johnny Sorrow]

I loved Windham and Rotundo as the US Express in WWF.

 

Varsity Club was fun.

 

IRS was such a stupid character. I fucking hated that deal.

[Dylan Waco]

I actually thought about this on and off today (which says something about me) and I actually don't know if there is any wrestler I get less excited about seeing than Rotundo. It's not even that he's terrible because he isn't. But the guy is boring as fuck and completely uninteresting on every level. He always has the look of a guy who is annoyed that he has to punch in for work and while I sympathize that is not a good default facial expression for a pro wrestler. I can think of a handful of matches involving him that I like a lot, but I can't really think of a particularly outstanding performance of Rotundo's.

 

Also his kid had a shitty match with Drew Macintyre on the WWE show I saw last year, which means I'm taking off extra points for trickling his uselessness down to the next generation.

[El-P]

I actually thought about this on and off today (which says something about me) and I actually don't know if there is any wrestler I get less excited about seeing than Rotundo. It's not even that he's terrible because he isn't. But the guy is boring as fuck and completely uninteresting on every level.

You know who that applies to in me case, right ?

 

Ok, I'll stop.

[Dylan Waco]

Raven?

[El-P]

Ah ah ! Well done. I didn't see it coming.

[soup23]

I actually thought about this on and off today (which says something about me) and I actually don't know if there is any wrestler I get less excited about seeing than Rotundo. It's not even that he's terrible because he isn't. But the guy is boring as fuck and completely uninteresting on every level. He always has the look of a guy who is annoyed that he has to punch in for work and while I sympathize that is not a good default facial expression for a pro wrestler. I can think of a handful of matches involving him that I like a lot, but I can't really think of a particularly outstanding performance of Rotundo's.

 

This encapsulates my thoughts on Rotunda completely.

[JerryvonKramer]

This is one of the reasons I maintain he was at his best as IRS because something of the real Mike Rotunda came through in his performance -- the guy clocking in for work. I buy him much more as an anal taxman than as a college jock. I said it before, I don't believe Rotunda would have been a popular kid on the college football team, he would have sat quietly in the corner. IRS had that exact vibe.

 

His career highlight might be these skits:

 

 

On the subject of him being boring, has anyone sat through the shoot interview he did? I have. He's a guy with no great passion for the business and he was very dry and boring throughout that interview. The major takeway is that he's quite close to Barry Windham (his brother-in-law).

[El-P]

I didn't think he came off as boring and dry during that interview. To me he came off more like a guy with his feet on the ground, treating pro-wrestling for what it is, a way to make a living, and that's probably why he's one of those guys who didn't get into trouble, dind't do fucked up shit and does live a normal life afterward. This may not be the most exciting thing you'll heard, but it left me on a good and positive impression on the guy. He did state that I.R.S was his favourite gimmick.

 

It sure ain't Tammy Sytch saying she loves anal and such...

[Matt D]

His shoot is okay so far as shoots go. The beginning of his career is actually fairly interesting. You get, more from him than from anyone else I've ever listen to a shoot of, the sense that "yeah, it was just a job." The best part is when he talks about the boat.

 

And yes, I love the promo where he's yelling at his secretaries. That was really the start of his post Money Inc life.

 

Also, I love this picture.

 

 

Neither here nor there, but one thing I've gotten from shoots is that almost all of my favorite wrestlers are either the guys who grew up with wrestling in their lives or grew up watching it. There are a few exceptions, but just a few. According to Patera, Flair had wrestling magazines strewn around his room all the time before he got into the business. Basically, all the best wrestling is just fan fiction.

[MikeCampbell]

I watched IRS vs. Marty Jannetty from the 1993 Survivor Series Showdown special, and it was all kinds of awful. IRS never makes it out of first gear, and because he controls the bulk of things, Jannetty doesn't get out of first gear either. Jannetty does what he can, he acts groggy to get over his head being rammed into the stairs, and he takes a huge bump off of the Write-Off. I'll probably watch it again tomorrow to see if a second viewing brings anything new to light.

 

From the same show, Crush vs. Virgil kills it, mostly because Virgil is dead set on having a good match whether or not Crush feels like it (p.s. he doesn't). Yes, VIRGIL outworked IRS.

 

EDIT: A second viewing showed me that it wasn't as lopsided as I'd originally thought, but Will's assessment of watching paint dry is still pretty much dead on.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

What would a top 10 Rotundo matches list look like?

 

I know I enjoyed a lot of the Rotundo/Williams tags, but I can't remember to what extent, and which ones stood out as the best. The matches with Steiner were pretty good too, if memory serves.

 

My favourite Rotundo match, off the top of my head, is the Money Inc/Doink Vs Steiners/Tatanka match.

[goodhelmet]

What would a top 10 Rotundo matches list look like?

Drying paint on a wall.

[JerryvonKramer]

Will, have you paid your taxes?

[shoe]

I haven't seen it in a couple of years, but I like the match on Saturday Night in 89 when Sting wins the t.v title . It had a big time vibe to it.

[Matt D]

From stuff from 92/93, I'd put in to the pot the MSG Nasty Boys vs Money Inc match, maybe one of the Natural Disasters ones (I'd have to rewatch), and I've got nothing against that Money Inc/Doink vs Tatanka/Steiners match. Razor/Marty vs IRS/Diesel is pretty fun too.

 

If we're serious about making a top ten for Rotunda.

 

The Rotunda vs Somers match from the AWA set is okay too.

[tomk]

Dissapointed that Eric isn't chiming in here on VK Wallstreet's syndi run.

 

One of the things that gets lost in the 80's heel in peril WWF tags vs JCP face in peril tags talk, is it misses the point that JCP/WCW didn't just run face in peril southern tags, they did heel in peril tags, face walking tall/heel bumping Kamala/Duggan/Watts v Kamala/Muhamad/Akbar type tags, one partner paired up wrestling while other partner brawls RnR v Poffo bros Steiner

s v Nasty Boys type tags, all out brawl tag matches, stiff workrate moveset (Road Warriors, SST, Steiner) tags etc.

 

That heavyweight workrate stuff is something that we don't see alot of anymore, but was all over WCW; Jerry Flynn v Saturn, two athletic power plant guys with a bunch of spots that don't know how to sell yet working a Choshu heavyweight sprint, etc. At some point in a WWF match the heel will "want to slow it down" and roll out a headlock or sub for the face to try to get a handclap going to fuel his power out ( HHH would be the exception as he often liked to be placed in sub by face before he'd do slow power out). But when watching WCW syndi, not a ton of guys who do the headlock, toss guy to floor to slow it down and bail from ring stall slow it down v power planters. VK Wallstreet was the guy who did it and on the one hand there was a novelty to it, on the other he was really kind of stiff and athletic in his "slap on a headlock slow it down" v athletic power planter with a bunch of spots.

 

Vk Wallstreet syndi under six minute match series as technical heel grounding face-with-cool-spots opposite Pittman or one half of High Voltage were well done and he came accross enthusiastic in those matches. Also say his stuff with Hacksaw was some of the better stuff opposite Hacksaw in WCW as again instead of building Hacksaw match around heel stooging it was more built around heel offense.

[tomk]

The internet has Paul Lynde singing Bad Leroy Brown and Marie Osmond reading dada poetry but no Vk Wallstreet v either Kenny Kaos or Robbie Rage.

 

OTOH, there are both Vk Wallstreet v Mr JL and VK v Barry Houston ( with announcers talking up the Houston v Lyger series). Both short and match my memory.

 

Also on Dailymotion are four Vk Wallstreet v Pittman matches. The Wallstreet v Pittman WCWSN from when Long started managing PIttman is the best of the bunch. The WCW Main Event and Pro matches are fun but aborted too early in. The other one is a preposterous subbmissions match which is more amusing in theory than execution but wouldn't call boring and has a pretty amusing finish. There also is a Pittman/Joey Maggs v Wallstreet/Big Bubba match spinning off from the Pittman series and a substory of the Hacksaw v Wallstreet feud, the match is barely three minutes and mostly Maggs and skippable. You really wish WCW had been smart enough to book Wallstreet/Chip Minton v Pittman/Chris Adams, but missed booking opportunities is the story of WCW.

 

There also is a Flair v Wallstreet match from Nitro that is preposterous and dumb booking but not dull.

 

I also watched the Battlebowl Hacksaw/Wallstreet parejas increibles super short tags and one of the Hacksaw v Wallstreet matches which was worked as I described but I have no desire to watch more 96 Hacksaw so won't be watching the others anytime soon.

[Matt D]

I still feel guilty that i never did that Craig Pittman project.